Expectations should be Top 3 with signs of a title challenge
My expectation, Ole gone by December, and a distant 6th or 7th place finish
My expectation, Ole gone by December, and a distant 6th or 7th place finish
Expectations under Ole: 2019/20
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
Exactly my sentiments.
Honestly, where we finish in the table isn't the most important thing (within reason). The main thing for me is to see a clear identity in the first team, to see that the players we keep buy into that identity and that our transfer strategy brings in hungry new players who fit into that philosophy as well. I'd rather miss out on the top 4 because we're building for the long term than rely on someone like Gareth Bale to scrape into the top 4 once but leave us in the same situation next summer as we are in this.
100%
Although I’m expecting near unanimous calls for his head during the early part of that (hopefully) upwards trend!
Based on what?
Probably should be sacked sometime in September then.
Well we are Manchester United after all. The expectations should be to challenge every year. Not saying they're realistic expectations but it is what it is
I feel this is part of the issue. Get rid of that entitlement mentality just because our football club is Manchester United.
We are a million miles away from challenging. Let's come up with a long term strategy to get us back where we need to be instead of looking at short term fixes and saying we should be challenging when we are nowhere near good enough to.
Just want a fecking decent football side.
I want to be able to watch us and not wonder what the feck we are doing.
I want to be able to watch us and not wonder what the feck we are doing.
Given that United narrowly missed out on top four this season, he can only claim to have made an improvement if he delivers a top four finish next time around.
Coincidentally, this is also the measuring stick that the club seems to use - I think he will stay in charge only if he delivers Champions League football.
In practice, I expect him to be gone by the New Year.
Coincidentally, this is also the measuring stick that the club seems to use - I think he will stay in charge only if he delivers Champions League football.
In practice, I expect him to be gone by the New Year.
This. There are no excuses, we narrowly missed out on top 4 this season and that's with Mourinho sabotaging half the season.
This summer, Chelsea have a transfer ban, Spurs will continue to be drowned by their stadium debt and Arsenal will spend the bare minimum as usual. While we're already being briefed about a record transfer spend.
Another year outside the Champions League and the value of our Adidas deal automatically reduces - The Glazers will want to avoid that and will be quick to pull the trigger on Solskjaer if it looks like he can't manage a top 4 finish.
Sacked by New Year would be my guess, too.
Your post is very contradictory with my point, to have a long term plan to challenge again isn't actually lowering the expectations at all and you can do that and have a 3rd place finish with signs of that challenge which is what I said the expectations should be
Despite the disastrous nature that has been this season and the state of the club in general there's still only 5 points separating us and the chasing pack. No reason whatsoever we cant be the best of the rest next season
My immediate expectation is to get 4-5 hungry players in - and that we are closer to City and Liverpool than we were this year.
...this
I can't see how you can have an opinion on this before the summer. We need major squad surgery and any change should be positive, but without knowing the scale of change or the investment from Eveton, Wolves, Spurs, Arsenal, it's very hard to tell where we might end up.
Realistically top 6 should be a minimum even with this stack of junk. Heading towards a failure of achieving at least that reflects badly on whoever is in charge. Ole gets a clean slate for me next season. The good and bad part of this season no longer count. He starts fresh as if he only joined in the summer, albeit with the knowledge he knows the squad much better.
Worryingly there is as much to say he had nothing to do with the early success as there is to say he did
If he was losing the first 10 games people would have said he hasn't had a chance to impose himself yet, so equally he can't receive full credit for a great start, especially not when evidence is more heavily leaning to a greater influence over time having a worse end result.
This said it could come down to the jelly baby nature of the squad. As soon as they received any developmental/ negative comment they are wobbling all over the show. No cahonas!
That would be too late as we've seen this season with Mourinho. Might as well just save on the severance pay then and let him see out the season.
For all our complaining about the standard of the club, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea aren't exactly covering themselves in domestic glory and have their own organisational and recruitment issues to contend with. The aim should be to out perform those 3. Not saying its definitely achievable but it should 100% be the aim for the first season. I would worry that Ole's margin for error is probably razor thin already given how the season ended. Te run of results make his initial performance look like a dead cat bounce than him being competent but he should 100% be backed in the market at this point and see what happens.
Top 4. Anything else is a bonus. Liverpool and City will be top 2 again. The other three teams will more or less remain at the same level.
Chelsea will probably get a transfer ban and lose Hazard as well. Arsenal don't have any transfer budget. 50m is what I'm hearing. So they can't improve much with that. Then there is Spurs who will also not have that much of a budget. They will probably lose Eriksen and Alderweireld so they'll need to get a few signings in.
We have a good chance if we can make the right signings. We will have a huge budget for sure. But we might lose some key players like Pogba and even De Gea.
But even if we don't end up in top 4, I think we should stick with Ole. Let him be here for the 3 years of his contract with a full backing in the market. Ole is one of our own and if he can turn this around, we'll have someone who loves the club and will be here for as long as we want.
Chelsea will probably get a transfer ban and lose Hazard as well. Arsenal don't have any transfer budget. 50m is what I'm hearing. So they can't improve much with that. Then there is Spurs who will also not have that much of a budget. They will probably lose Eriksen and Alderweireld so they'll need to get a few signings in.
We have a good chance if we can make the right signings. We will have a huge budget for sure. But we might lose some key players like Pogba and even De Gea.
But even if we don't end up in top 4, I think we should stick with Ole. Let him be here for the 3 years of his contract with a full backing in the market. Ole is one of our own and if he can turn this around, we'll have someone who loves the club and will be here for as long as we want.
Yeah let's just do it one final time and complete the cycle completely before we modernise as a club.
Our fanbase desperately needs this. If this turns out to be a collosal failure as I expect it to be, maybe the club and the fan base will be a lot more pragmatic towards managers and not live and die by them.
I have zero expectations at this time. I genuinely don't care about league position next year.
We have way bigger problems than next year.
When fundamental things are wrong in any place, not just a football club or any sports team, it starts with the top. And I don't see us doing anything about it. And not much can be done about the Glazers anyway.
About a month ago when we started losing games I thought we needed to buy well to turn around things. After these last few games, I have realized we need to get rid of so much deadwood, and turnover so much squad... Even if Ole is the man to do that there is no proper supporting system at the club for him to do so.
We have way bigger problems than next year.
When fundamental things are wrong in any place, not just a football club or any sports team, it starts with the top. And I don't see us doing anything about it. And not much can be done about the Glazers anyway.
About a month ago when we started losing games I thought we needed to buy well to turn around things. After these last few games, I have realized we need to get rid of so much deadwood, and turnover so much squad... Even if Ole is the man to do that there is no proper supporting system at the club for him to do so.
I’ll be happy in the top 8 and a good cup run if we are playing positive football with a new look squad and signs of progression.
Top 4 is a must the year after
Top 4 is a must the year after
I'll fully expect us to win the league led by young players like Greenwood and Chong! Believe
Really hard to comment on stuff like this as it depends upon the extent of his and the club's plans.
For instance, personally I'd be more than happy to see us finish well outside the top 6 if there was evidence of a root and branch restructure of the club. If the deadwood was properly cleared and replaced by young, talented, hungry, but ultimately inexperienced players to augment the young players we already have plus a handful of our current first team that deserve to stay and fit the profile in terms of age and ability. A year outside the top 6 next year, then top 4 the year after, and challenging for the title in year 3 would be absolutely fine by me. (I don't have any faith that Ole is the right guy to lead this, but we're talking hypothetically here, and I accept that I don't know for sure that he's not going to be a success)
If, however, Ole and the club decide they are not going to conduct a major restructure and are going to stick with what we have plus say 4 big-name signings then - given that he has already had half a year with the existing team - I would be looking for a top 3 finish. If he's way off that by Xmas then that is just not good enough.
For instance, personally I'd be more than happy to see us finish well outside the top 6 if there was evidence of a root and branch restructure of the club. If the deadwood was properly cleared and replaced by young, talented, hungry, but ultimately inexperienced players to augment the young players we already have plus a handful of our current first team that deserve to stay and fit the profile in terms of age and ability. A year outside the top 6 next year, then top 4 the year after, and challenging for the title in year 3 would be absolutely fine by me. (I don't have any faith that Ole is the right guy to lead this, but we're talking hypothetically here, and I accept that I don't know for sure that he's not going to be a success)
If, however, Ole and the club decide they are not going to conduct a major restructure and are going to stick with what we have plus say 4 big-name signings then - given that he has already had half a year with the existing team - I would be looking for a top 3 finish. If he's way off that by Xmas then that is just not good enough.
Yeah this really. Expectations have hit an all time low so at this point you just want to see a plan in place, things making sense again. But as far as predicting the season, we can’t actually tell until the transfer window is closed. If we make as horrid a transactions we made last year we’ll genuinely be a mid table team.
It's this kind of simplistic thinking that is partly responsible for the situation that United now finds itself in.
United outspent Spurs in net terms by £42.6m over the last 2 windows (according to the figures cited), yet have dropped from 2nd place to (probably) 6th.
Continuing to try and spend your way out of trouble is not the answer.
I think the bar is being set too low based on recent poor results. Big summer ahead but United are much better than recent results and had no luck at times. if United and Citys cup draws had been the other way around I think there would still be a cup final to look forward too and way less doom. The same side came 2nd last year and Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal all have their problems going forwards so no reason why we couldnt aim for minimum 3rd and good cup runs provided the board backs Ole.
Get rid of all players who show lack of committment and effort.
Bring in only young bright players with potential.
Clear system of exciting football. I want to look forward to every game regardless of the result of the previous one. I should feel gutted for missing a game, not indifferent.
Improvement in our style as the season progresses, even if results don't always follow. In fact, I would happily take a Wolves18/19-like season results-wise (and standing-wise at well), regularly giving a hard time to the teams above us, even though inconsistent with the rest of the league below.
Anything else would be bonus for me. If Ole can manage all of the above I would be happy for him to remain at the wheel for another season, even if we don't achieve anything noteworthy. Time for us to try slow rebuilding. I have been spoiled with trophies supporting United under Fergie, so a few years in the wilderness won't hurt me too bad, as long as there are visible signs of progress and I can enjoy watching United every match like I did during that "honeymoon" run.
Bring in only young bright players with potential.
Clear system of exciting football. I want to look forward to every game regardless of the result of the previous one. I should feel gutted for missing a game, not indifferent.
Improvement in our style as the season progresses, even if results don't always follow. In fact, I would happily take a Wolves18/19-like season results-wise (and standing-wise at well), regularly giving a hard time to the teams above us, even though inconsistent with the rest of the league below.
Anything else would be bonus for me. If Ole can manage all of the above I would be happy for him to remain at the wheel for another season, even if we don't achieve anything noteworthy. Time for us to try slow rebuilding. I have been spoiled with trophies supporting United under Fergie, so a few years in the wilderness won't hurt me too bad, as long as there are visible signs of progress and I can enjoy watching United every match like I did during that "honeymoon" run.
1. Get rid of players with bad attitude (Martial, Pogba)
2. Get rid of those not good enough (just about everyone else)
3. Restructure, restructure, restructure
4. Buy younger players with right attitude (and skill)
If, and it's a big if, Ole is allowed to do this, top 4.
If Ed/the board won't allow major changes, then God knows where we'll end up. They need to realise that big changes are needed at all levels of the club.
2. Get rid of those not good enough (just about everyone else)
3. Restructure, restructure, restructure
4. Buy younger players with right attitude (and skill)
If, and it's a big if, Ole is allowed to do this, top 4.
If Ed/the board won't allow major changes, then God knows where we'll end up. They need to realise that big changes are needed at all levels of the club.
Top 4 is overrated.
Get us playing like a team.
Get us playing quality attacking football.
Give us a proper footballing identify.
Make progress towards a proper title challenge in 20/21 (i.e hover 7-10 points behind the leaders)
Develop youth
Develop and raise the technical quality at the club
Buy well and improve players
Get us playing like a team.
Get us playing quality attacking football.
Give us a proper footballing identify.
Make progress towards a proper title challenge in 20/21 (i.e hover 7-10 points behind the leaders)
Develop youth
Develop and raise the technical quality at the club
Buy well and improve players
With Ole top 5. With a proper manager top 3.
The most important thing for me is playing good football with a clearly defined style of play and seeing some vision as to what he wants to do with the team. Results are results, but for me I need to see what he’s trying to turn us into.
Even when the results weren’t coming for Klopp and Pep initially, you could see what they were trying to do.
Even when the results weren’t coming for Klopp and Pep initially, you could see what they were trying to do.
My expectations would never be met, so wont even bother sharing them. Which is funny because this whole top 4, top 3, top 6 nonsense arent part of it.
It is going to be very difficult because other teams will improve as well and Sarri aside their management teams will likely remain providing consistency.
The game is about small margins so improving our fitness so we can compete over a season will make a difference and it will be interesting to see if one pre-season can close the gap.
There has been some nice tactical variations so I am looking forward to more of the same once we have the fitness levels to play and press more intensely.
Phasing out of Young, Matic and Smalling - and whether Dalot, Fred and Bailly are the answers is not really clear at this moment in time. We have not really had a strong enough team spine to provide the support they need. Hopefully our spine remains and we can build on that for next season and provide a better platform for them to show what they can do.
A better balance to our midfield/forwards - feel we lack a clever play maker type, excellent feet and touch with head up so can play players in when they move immediately. Too much momentum has been lost by delaying these types of passes or not having the ability to play them.
I think challenging for top 4 is realistic but believe top 2 will remain much as it is now unless something major happens to derail that be it important players leaving or manager.
The game is about small margins so improving our fitness so we can compete over a season will make a difference and it will be interesting to see if one pre-season can close the gap.
There has been some nice tactical variations so I am looking forward to more of the same once we have the fitness levels to play and press more intensely.
Phasing out of Young, Matic and Smalling - and whether Dalot, Fred and Bailly are the answers is not really clear at this moment in time. We have not really had a strong enough team spine to provide the support they need. Hopefully our spine remains and we can build on that for next season and provide a better platform for them to show what they can do.
A better balance to our midfield/forwards - feel we lack a clever play maker type, excellent feet and touch with head up so can play players in when they move immediately. Too much momentum has been lost by delaying these types of passes or not having the ability to play them.
I think challenging for top 4 is realistic but believe top 2 will remain much as it is now unless something major happens to derail that be it important players leaving or manager.
Excellent points. I'm interested to see what Wolves and Leicester do over the summer, if they really make a run to break open the Big Six or just try to consolidate their positions. As for us and the other three, every team has questions going into the summer, especially Chelsea.
I think these are the keys, and they may not lead to success, as defined by some, next year. Just add one thing to it: Develop or bring in a real, vocal leader on the pitch. The squad lacks that at the moment and it's killing us.
That said, I do believe we'll finish top-6, and Ole will get two years minimum. It will be very interesting to see what he does for Europa League, as well.
No expectations at all. I'm more or less resigned to being shite for the foreseeable future, no matter what: we sign mediocre players and keep them around hoping they'll come good, we sign good players and turn them into mediocre players and then rule number one applies. One person, no matter who that is, won't be able to shake it up: instead any new arrival, be that player, manager or director of football, will quickly sink back into the comfortable culture of mediocrity after the initial excitement.
Squad renewal.
Be ruthless.
Be ruthless.
Bottom half of the table before Ole is sacked in November. That's as it is right now.
So, what? We don't make any signings? We don't back the manager?
I'd be more excited of a top 6 but with a clear direction of a good style of play and obvious points to address in the summer then a 3'ed place finish of tumescent football. Klopp finished 8th in his first season while Mourinho 2nd in his second, yet we all know who was putting the ground work for something great and who was not.
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