excellent piece on the nevilles

Originally posted by giggsgirl:
<strong>Scalisto seems to think that hounding players out with boos and whistles seems to present some kind of proof that there is something wrong with those Manchester United fans who support Phil Neville.

Where did you learn your logic from?.....
I, for one, happen to think that supporters who hound players......out of clubs are cowards who need to get a life instead of pursuing vendettas for whatever reason that emanates from their small, unbalanced minds. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh JANEY MACK she's at it again :rolleyes:

Intellect, PHyyyyyyycchhhology ;) , Scholarship....

<img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" />
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Originally posted by devilish:
<strong>Devilish, if you were actually a mancunian, as you claim (yeah right), there is no way you would be dissing having local lads in the team.

I am a mancunian AND I have met P Nev here in Malta for a couple of times and he is a wonderful lad But that is not enough to play at OT.

Winning medals while sitting on the bench of a highly successful club is NOT an excuse for success. May have won the CL medal but was he vital for the 1999 treble setup? Do you really believe tha P Nev is better than Owen (yuk), Southgate or Campbell?

Scalisto is right on ONE thing we have the mentality of a provincial team were a player can be crap or play shit, but just because he is a nice lad he is not sold.

Well we are not a 4 division team, we are MANUTD. These players are paid 30 - 40 grands a week and they got to be good players if they want to stay in the team

Once they make it in the team they are not our little local lads any more. They are world class players who are paid and should be treated as world class players. I prefar a Dutch who can do the job rather than a local who cant. After all I am not this or that player supporter, I am a Man United supporter</strong><hr></blockquote>

Where do you come from in Manchester, Devilish? Ever lived there? What school did you go to?
Ever been to Old Trafford?

Are you feck from Manchester.

I don't give a shit how many of united's players you have met in Malta -- you clearly know jack shit about them, or their fans who actually go to the games.
Yes, at Manchester United, it does matter where the player comes from.
We are not Chelsea.

You and Scalisto clearly know nothing about the roots of our club, or how we became great.
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Originally posted by mancred:
<strong>

Where do you come from in Manchester, Devilish? Ever lived there? What school did you go to?
Ever been to Old Trafford?

Are you feck from Manchester.

I don't give a shit how many of united's players you have met in Malta -- you clearly know jack shit about them, or their fans who actually go to the games.
Yes, at Manchester United, it does matter where the player comes from.
We are not Chelsea.

You and Scalisto clearly know nothing about the roots of our club, or how we became great.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You seem to take great pleasure by trying to put down fans who are not from Manchester but people like you do not realise the importance of fans outside Manchester. If for you, it matters where a player comes from, then you're an idiot and it is that simple. It does not matter where a player comes from as long as he loves the club and puts in as much effort as possible all the time. Eric Cantona and Roy Keane are perfect examples. While there is no doubt in my mind that the Nevilles love the club(Phil shows it more), the fact of the matter is that if we want to be a World Class team and we have to have world class players and a player who does not have the quality cannot be kept just for his loyalty. There are plenty of individuals out there who love the club as much as the Nevilles do, yet they are not given a chance. The fact of the matter is that talent is as important(if not more important) as love for the club.
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Originally posted by cd:
<strong>

It does not matter where a player comes from as long as he loves the club and puts in as much effort as possible all the time. Eric Cantona and Roy Keane are perfect examples. While there is no doubt in my mind that the Nevilles love the club(Phil shows it more), the fact of the matter is that if we want to be a World Class team and we have to have world class players and a player who does not have the quality cannot be kept just for his loyalty. There are plenty of individuals out there who love the club as much as the Nevilles do, yet they are not given a chance. The fact of the matter is that talent is as important(if not more important) as love for the club.</strong><hr></blockquote>


How can you say all this about how important it is for a player to love the club, and then finish by saying "talent is as important (if not more important)? Contradiction.

You're right it doesn't matter about where people come from, provided they love the club. But the fact is that one way of guaranteeing that is to have local players in the club. The local lads have been the bedrock for our recent success.

Veron may be the most talented individual at OT (actually, I think Scholes is), but I'd rather have the Nevilles playing in a derby -- or in the dying minutes of a must-win match against Bayer Leverkusen.

It matters very much that the Nevilles are playing at the one club they have always wanted to play for (same as Eric, Keane, Robbo), and that they would never want to leave it.

Veron knows that no matter how much he contributes to us winning nothing, he'll still leave United and earn lots of money playing at another club somewhere in Europe. If the money were right, he'd go anywhere else, and be happy.

Scholes, Giigs, Nevilles, Butt: they're happy at United even if they're not paid as much as they could be elsewhere, and even if they aren't in the starting line up.

Do you think the Nevilles will be in in the press complaining now about being dropped against Bayer?

Yet how long do you reckon Veron would hang around if he weren't getting a regular place? (The fact that there is even the suggestion that he has a clause in his contract that he always gets a starting place says it all!)

As for non-Mancunian "Man Utd" fans... I couldn't care less any more about who supports us or where they come from (I've had to lighten up since moving to University in London). In any event, after our disappointments last year, we're starting to be able to separate the real fans from the glory hunters.

What does piss me off, though, is people who have never been inside OT passing judgment on people like Gary Neville or Phil Neville, and coming out with crap about how "it doesn't matter how much one loves the club"....

That kind of rubbish is so far from what fans who are at OT week in week out think that no-one should be surprised if any of us take offence at it.

If you want rootless "talent" playing for the side, with no connection to the expectations of the men and women paying to watch United play, go support Chelsea -- or better yet, some franchise American football or NHL team in some tedious North American league.
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How can any one in there right mind criticise Gaz and Phil? Gary has done nothiing but bleed and sweat Man Utd Red from the day he was born an to call him a common defender, well that just shows how much you pay attention to the beautiful game.He may not have "flair" but he gets the job done and does it well. Your no scrub player when your considered for the captaincy of your countries team when the likes of Becks is hurt. As for Phil, he has done nothing but done what he has been asked to do and done it happily with out complaints or excuses. No, he isnt Keane or Butt, but what other player has the drive, diversity and heart to play any where he is asked, especially in a position he is not used to, and do well.

Now is not the time to criticise what has been happening to the club, least of all 2 great Mancs the likes of Gaz and Phil taht if either one were to move on to another club they would be literally heart broke
 
Great work, agreed on every detail save for the part where Holt starts looking for others to blame. We should never blame anybody, just say when certain players should have done better, and Gary and Phil will be the first to step forward and admit they had shockers on saturday. Those who whine about Gary and Phil need to look at themselves and decide whether they support Manchester United or just enjoy the trophies we've been winning over the past decade.
 
I really don't understand this excessive criticism of Phil Neville. He's our third choice central midfielder, for heaven's sake. That's why he's not world class because he only a cover for when other players are injured and that's why he's in the team - because other better players are injured. Who's Arsenal third choice behind Patrick Viera? Is he any better than Phil Neville?

Phil is an asset to the team not just because he's a local lad but because he's loyal, reliable, uncomplaining and gets on with the job when he's given the chance. Those are the attributes required of third choice (and I can't emphasise that enough) players.
 
Originally posted by mancred:
<strong>

Where do you come from in Manchester, Devilish? Ever lived there? What school did you go to?
Ever been to Old Trafford?

Are you feck from Manchester.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Another pathetic example of "I am a true fan because I am from Manchester" brigade

:rolleyes:
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Gee, kinkymelinky is really showing just where he is coming from - crawling out from under the same narrow little place that the poster from Argentina who slags off our lads comes from. Well done again kinky!

By all means you go ahead and support someone who thinks that our lads like Phil Neville deserve to be `hounded` (I am quoting from your Argentinian mate) out of Manchester United. Onya matey - you`re just what Manchester United needs! Keep up the good work!

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> :p :p
 
Gee, kinkymelinky is really showing just where he is coming from - crawling out from under the same narrow little place that the poster from Argentina who slags off our lads comes from. Well done again kinky!

By all means you go ahead and support someone who thinks that our lads like Phil Neville deserve to be `hounded` (I am quoting from your Argentinian mate) out of Manchester United. Onya matey - you`re just what Manchester United needs! Keep up the good work!


<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> :p :p
 
Mancred you are amusing, very funny

I AM A Mancunian, I was born in Manchester altough I came to Malta as a young lad.

For someone who had never walked out from his country yard it is understandable that you dont appreceate foreign based supporters. It is the typical Manchester stupidity that thanks GOD its not shared by the club.

I tell you about Malta little fool. Here there is the oldest MUFC supporters club in the world built in the early 50s ( glory hunters arent they?) PPl like Busby, Best and charlton had always been impressed by the Maltese love for Manutd and described by SAF as UNIQUE.

When everyone in England (including you Manchester bullocks) where slatting Beckham guess where he came for refuge? In Malta. G Neville and Becks sees Malta as a second home, were they are loved AND never critised. A place were NO ONE would ever dream of kidnapping their family. They come to our club as friends not as players and Becks had invited half the supporters club to his wedding. Had you the same privelege you FOOL?

Grow up man, much of MANUTD strength comes from the money and money comes from supporters from abroad who spend a fortune to come and watch Manutd at OT every year. They deserve respect my friend
 
Well you think that you are Gods, but for a person who had travelled around Europe, (from San Siro to Banabeu) I can tell you that the support given at OT is CRAP. I have said it, Beckham had said it, and Keano had said it, so shut up arrogant bollock!!!!

About P Nev, he is a wonderful lad believe me. But what Manutd needs are not a cover but a good player who can REALLY compete for a first team place. We lack of motivation because certian players knows that there is NO one capable to take their place.

I am NOT against P Nev, but its a fact that he makes part of one of the biggest club in europe and earns an enormous wage to do the job. He is an average player and that is unfortunately not enough.

Of coarse I would like home grown talent to suceed at OT. But by keeping average players we are

1 Killing the oportunity to geniune new talent.
2 Is tying the clubs hand from strenghtining the team.

We know the OT situation, where a player must be sold before a player comes in. Keeping average players is not the solution for Manutd problems. AS i said I am not this or that player supporter I am a Manutd supporter ( unlike you Macred)
 
Originally posted by Nh1878:
<strong>I really don't understand this excessive criticism of Phil Neville. He's our third choice central midfielder, for heaven's sake. That's why he's not world class because he only a cover for when other players are injured and that's why he's in the team - because other better players are injured. Who's Arsenal third choice behind Patrick Viera? Is he any better than Phil Neville?

Phil is an asset to the team not just because he's a local lad but because he's loyal, reliable, uncomplaining and gets on with the job when he's given the chance. Those are the attributes required of third choice (and I can't emphasise that enough) players.</strong><hr></blockquote>


exactly..
Even Arsenal would suffer if Viera and Gilberto were injured at the same time.
Phil is no midfielder, but he gives 110% everytime he's asked to play there.
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Phil is an asset to the team not just because he's a local lad but because he's loyal, reliable, uncomplaining and gets on with the job when he's given the chance. Those are the attributes required of third choice (and I can't emphasise that enough) players.

Though i would not associate reliability with P Nev I want to point it out that P Nev is also Silvestre's ONLY cover at the moment.

BTW Guess what Fortune had done a better job as a defensive midfielder than P Nev.
 
P Nev makes part of one of the strongest team on earth and is paid 30 grand a week to do the job. At 25 He cannot be considered as a local fledging anymore soo either he is able to compete for a place or he is not.

There is no place for covers at Manutd's level. There is only place for COMPETITORS. You always moan that there is lack of motivation in the team ( I agree with you) but if there is no competition for places how can we motivate these players.

Look at AC Milan. In the forward line there is Rivaldo, Inzaghi, Tommasson, Shevcenko and italian scarlet Boriello ( Rooney level) all fighting for 2 place. In the defense Maldini, Nesta, Laursen, Helveg, Colocini, Kaladze and Roque Junior while in the midfield Donati(loan), Ambrosini Redondo Gattuso Seedorf Rui Costa Pirlo Albertini(loan)and Serginho. That is the secret of football nowadays
 
Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>

Another pathetic example of "I am a true fan because I am from Manchester" brigade

:rolleyes: </strong><hr></blockquote>

no it isn't. he claims to come from manchester. i don't believe him.

have i ever criticised you for supporting united from malaysia?
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Originally posted by devilish:
<strong>Mancred you are amusing, very funny

I AM A Mancunian, I was born in Manchester altough I came to Malta as a young lad.

For someone who had never walked out from his country yard it is understandable that you dont appreceate foreign based supporters. It is the typical Manchester stupidity that thanks GOD its not shared by the club.

I tell you about Malta little fool. Here there is the oldest MUFC supporters club in the world built in the early 50s ( glory hunters arent they?) PPl like Busby, Best and charlton had always been impressed by the Maltese love for Manutd and described by SAF as UNIQUE.

When everyone in England (including you Manchester bullocks) where slatting Beckham guess where he came for refuge? In Malta. G Neville and Becks sees Malta as a second home, were they are loved AND never critised. A place were NO ONE would ever dream of kidnapping their family. They come to our club as friends not as players and Becks had invited half the supporters club to his wedding. Had you the same privelege you FOOL?

Grow up man, much of MANUTD strength comes from the money and money comes from supporters from abroad who spend a fortune to come and watch Manutd at OT every year. They deserve respect my friend</strong><hr></blockquote>


How many other foreign supporters' associations' love for united do you reckon fergie has described as "unique"? (one or two, I'd say... :)
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

My point, again: I don't care where you come from -- although I am curious about you claiming to be from Manchester, which is why I was asking.

What I do care about is people who don't care about Manchester, don't care about the local players, don't care about local supporters, and never come to Old Trafford, telling the supporters who do bother to come to the matches that we should stop supporting the Nevilles.

It shows just how out of touch people like you are with the mainstream of the supporters.

Furthermore, I have never said that the support at OT is great. I just said that you had no idea how much people in OT supported the Nevilles.

I know OT's support doesn't compare with other grounds in Europe, and I am ashamed by it.
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I refuse to give you any personal information my friend.

But believe me I care for the local lads, for the local supporters and traveling to OT 3 or 4 times a year show that I am in touch with my roots(altough you dont need to be in Manchester to know what is happening to Manutd)

Manutd's UNIQUE strength relies on it roots. History showed us that Manutd best teams had a local based backbone and I wouldnt argue or change that. That is why I want SAF to promote O Shea over the declining Blanc and that is why I have always said that the best money spent is over the academy

But it's also a fact that Manutd has extremely high standards that only few youths can manage to reach that. At 25 yrs P Nev cannot get any better and it is obvious that at this level he is not good enough for OT. Keeping a 30 grand player as a (not good enough) cover is killing the oportunity to other players (Stewart and Tierney) to emerge and is tying SAF from bringing in new players.

P Nev is a wonderful person believe me. But staying at OT is damaging the club(stated in the previous passage) and his own career
 
Originally posted by devilish
Look at AC Milan. In the forward line there is Rivaldo, Inzaghi, Tommasson, Shevcenko and italian scarlet Boriello ( Rooney level) all fighting for 2 place.<hr></blockquote>

Phil Neville is 3rd choice and possibly even 4th choice if Stewart were fit, central midfielder. Even at left back, JOS would cover for Silvestre, so Phil is 3rd choice LB as well. Who are Milan's 3rd and 4th choice players? Has the world ever heard of them?!

I don't disagree with any one who says Phil Neville is not a world class player but then 3rd choice players by their nature usually aren't! They are reserves, covers, utility men, who are only played when world class players ie 1st and 2nd choices are injured and the manager has no other options. You can slag off Phil Neville till the cows come home but at this point in time, with the United squad ravaged by injuries, the manager has no alternative but to play him, so wouldn't it be better to get behind him and give him encouragement instead or is that beyond the scope of United fans who have been starved of success for one whole season?
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I think there are other alternatives even with Keane, Butt and Stewart out. Scholes could be played there instead of up front. Fortune can give it a go. Beckham too, with Forlan on the right. Maybe O'Shea, he's been played everywhere!
 
Manutd's problemn is that we tend to flirt ppl around and pretend them to play magnificently. Players have their positions and altough some of them may play in different position this charateristic is very rare.

We have seen Giggs Veron, Scholes and Beckham flirted everywhere in the midfield and O Shea playing across the defense.

Just look at Veron. He was magnificent against Leverkusen but played SHIT against MAN CITY as a winger. Players need to be played in their natural roles if you dont have good cover than go and buy or promote someone from the youths.

Playing a player out of his position will not help the club. It will only negatively reflect on his performance, form and confidense
 
BTW YOU MUST BE MAD TO SPEND 30 GRANDS A WEEK FOR A 3RD COVER

AND P NEV is Silvestre's cover and not O SHEA
 
Originally posted by Neil Thomson
I think there are other alternatives even with Keane, Butt and Stewart out. Scholes could be played there instead of up front. Fortune can give it a go. Beckham too, with Forlan on the right. Maybe O'Shea, he's been played everywhere!<hr></blockquote>

But they are all attacking midfielders! How is it going to help a team that's struggling to score goals to have its creative players playing deep? Even though Phil isn't really a midfielder he is at least a defensive player. As for O'Shea - yeah, not bad idea except that he is now needed to cover for Rio. So once again, the question remains, at this point in time, if you don't play Phil Neville, then who do you play?

Edited to add:
Originally posted by devilish
Just look at Veron. He was magnificent against Leverkusen but played SHIT against MAN CITY as a winger.<hr></blockquote>

Veron didn't play out of position against City - Ole did! He played on the right wing. Veron played in his regular position in the centre and was poor. However, I do take your point. We do play players out of position too often and this can and does sometimes upset the balance of the team.
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Originally posted by Nh1878:
<strong>

But they are all attacking midfielders! How is it going to help a team that's struggling to score goals to have its creative players playing deep? Even though Phil isn't really a midfielder he is at least a defensive player. As for O'Shea - yeah, not bad idea except that he is now needed to cover for Rio. So once again, the question remains, at this point in time, if you don't play Phil Neville, then who do you play?</strong><hr></blockquote>
But the point is that Phil doesn't defend the defence well, I think no better than Scholes - who plays better in a midfield role. Fortune did better on wednesday, and he's not going to be missed elsewhere. Beckham is as tenacious, but not a good tackler, but he does close them down and harass them - but I prefer him on the right obviously.
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Originally posted by devilish:
[QB]Well you think that you are Gods, but for a person who had travelled around Europe, (from San Siro to Banabeu) I can tell you that the support given at OT is CRAP. I HAVE SAID IT, Beckham had said it, and Keano had said it, so shut up arrogant bollock!!!!QB]<hr></blockquote>

When did you say it?
How often have you been to OT before saying it?

The fact stands United supporters were the most vocal and well supported team in this country and further until local support was pushed out and money became a major factor.
Over 17,000 tickets a game are given as corporate handouts many of whom are not United fans,do you think they sing?
Do you think the daytrippers who see little difference between sitting on a seat at OT and sitting watching it at sky sing?
These people don`t even know the words to our songs,and thats the new ones never mind the old ones that have died out cos the majority of people don`t know them.
We mancs don`t think we`re Gods we just remember when OT was a fortress people feared because of the crowd as well as the team.
Some of your statements are extremely patronising and I suggest you come to some of the pubs round OT and give us your views if you ever get there.
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But the point is that Phil doesn't defend the defence well, I think no better than Scholes - who plays better in a midfield role. Fortune did better on wednesday, and he's not going to be missed elsewhere. Beckham is as tenacious, but not a good tackler, but he does close them down and harass them - but I prefer him on the right obviously.<hr></blockquote>

Neil, I take your point but our problem is if you put Scholes in midfield with Veron, Scholes would be forced to play deep and do all the donkey work - is that what you want our best creative midfielder to be doing? Of course Scholsey could do the job, no problem, but if he does that, you lose the creative side, the attacking side and then how does that help the team? Ditto for Beckham. All the players you mention can cover the position adequately, but you lose something more important in the meantime.

As for Fortune, yeah he did OK against Bayer but that was against a poor European side. He didn't really have to make any tackles, there was acres of space in midfield and the pace wasn't as frenetic as an EPL match would be, (and dare I say it Veron played well for most part). Can you seriously see Fortune (again an attacking midfielder) getting stuck in at Upton Park on Sunday? It would be a risky experiment to find out! P Neville's advantage is that he is naturally defensively orientated and isn't being forced to play against his instincts. You are right in that he hasn't made much impact but my view is we really have no choice in the matter until Butt comes back and that's why SAF has been persisting with him.
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Originally posted by Nh1878:
<strong>

Neil, I take your point but our problem is if you put Scholes in midfield with Veron, Scholes would be forced to play deep and do all the donkey work - is that what you want our best creative midfielder to be doing? Of course Scholsey could do the job, no problem, but if he does that, you lose the creative side, the attacking side and then how does that help the team? Ditto for Beckham. All the players you mention can cover the position adequately, but you lose something more important in the meantime.

As for Fortune, yeah he did OK against Bayer but that was against a poor European side. He didn't really have to make any tackles, there was acres of space in midfield and the pace wasn't as frenetic as an EPL match would be, (and dare I say it Veron played well for most part). Can you seriously see Fortune (again an attacking midfielder) getting stuck in at Upton Park on Sunday? It would be a risky experiment to find out! P Neville's advantage is that he is naturally defensively orientated and isn't being forced to play against his instincts. You are right in that he hasn't made much impact but my view is we really have no choice in the matter until Butt comes back and that's why SAF has been persisting with him.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Scholes when in a 4-4-2 alongside butt or keane sits level with those two and does his fair share of the defensive work. It might be a problem with Veron because Veron doesn't pull his weight in that regard, but I'm sure Scholes would still be able to influence the game a bit from there and it might improve Veron to have a more creative partner with him. Phil was dropped imo and I expect Fortune will get a run to see if he can do any better. Phil is a defender, but a full back, and full backs back off too much to be a central midfielder.
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Though I respect your views you DID NOT FRIGHTENED ME by your come at the PUB if you dare plea. I had faught with the Dutch the Spanish and the Turkish ( worse of all) hooligans ( purely self defense) and I wont be afriad of a couple of prawn sandwich supporters

My view is this my Friend. I am a Manc born as you are. I have been attending OT for about 12 years and I have noticed 2 things

1 Homegrown Mancs are Wonderful supporters but they are very close minded and conservationists.

2 Homegrown Mancs tend to support the players AND not the club

IF you want to pick a fight my friend come to Malta. I would give you a very warm reception Sin one to one not a man against a pub
 
Scholes when in a 4-4-2 alongside butt or keane sits level with those two and does his fair share of the defensive work. It might be a problem with Veron because Veron doesn't pull his weight in that regard, but I'm sure Scholes would still be able to influence the game a bit from there and it might improve Veron to have a more creative partner with him. <hr></blockquote>

Scholes only does the donkey work alongside Keane/Butt when he has to - it isn't his primary role. If you put him alongside Veron in a 4-4-2, it would then become his priority as there would be no one else and we would suffer creatively as a result, and it would be risky. I really could not see any manager putting out an all attacking midfield of Giggs, Veron, Scholes and Beckham, especially with our defensive problems. I am not saying I wouldn't want that to happen, I am saying it wouldn't because it would be such a high risk strategy, particularly with Veron's indifferent form in the EPL.

Phil was dropped imo and I expect Fortune will get a run to see if he can do any better. Phil is a defender, but a full back, and full backs back off too much to be a central midfielder. <hr></blockquote>

Take your point about Phil backing off too much. I never said he was effective in the role only that we didn't appear to have much choice!!! Maybe we should try Fortune on Sunday even though I can't really see it myself - what have we got to lose eh?!!! :rolleyes:
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About the other issues you are right SIN. OT should be filled by supporters ( even those who are foreign based. they pay a lot of money to come to OT and DESERVE red carpet treatment) and not by corporate assholes. But again these show the cowardness of the typical Manutd supporter ( me included) who do not bully the club for their rights.

We are Manutd's owners. We pay them to remain filthy rich and we deserve respect

If the same lack of respect was witnessed in Italy or Spain than the club would be in Havoc ( believe me I saw them personally) The grounds would be empty for good while the money men would be very afriad to go out.
 
Originally posted by devilish:
<strong>Though I respect your views you DID NOT FRIGHTENED ME by your come at the PUB if you dare plea. I had faught with the Dutch the Spanish and the Turkish ( worse of all) hooligans ( purely self defense) and I wont be afriad of a couple of prawn sandwich supporters

My view is this my Friend. I am a Manc born as you are. I have been attending OT for about 12 years and I have noticed 2 things

1 Homegrown Mancs are Wonderful supporters but they are very close minded and conservationists.

2 Homegrown Mancs tend to support the players AND not the club

IF you want to pick a fight my friend come to Malta. I would give you a very warm reception Sin one to one not a man against a pub</strong><hr></blockquote>

My point was you are being patronising and belittling to mancunians on the internet and then you back me up with the prawn sandwich statement.The pubs around OT will be mainly filled with the local support who would be interested in your view of Mancunians
as crap supporters.
It is your irritating and patronising tone that leads to violence and it was you that was disparaging of Mancunians not I of the maltese.

I wouldn`t need to come to Malta as you are at OT so often.

Try to be a little less patronising to the locals of a team you say you support or maybe move your allegiance to one of the other more wonderfully supported clubs you have travelled to.
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Originally posted by sin65:
<strong>

When did you say it?
How often have you been to OT before saying it?

The fact stands United supporters were the most vocal and well supported team in this country and further until local support was pushed out and money became a major factor.
Over 17,000 tickets a game are given as corporate handouts many of whom are not United fans,do you think they sing?
Do you think the daytrippers who see little difference between sitting on a seat at OT and sitting watching it at sky sing?
These people don`t even know the words to our songs,and thats the new ones never mind the old ones that have died out cos the majority of people don`t know them.
We mancs don`t think we`re Gods we just remember when OT was a fortress people feared because of the crowd as well as the team.
Some of your statements are extremely patronising and I suggest you come to some of the pubs round OT and give us your views if you ever get there.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Well said
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Originally posted by devilish:
<strong>About the other issues you are right SIN. OT should be filled by supporters ( even those who are foreign based. they pay a lot of money to come to OT and DESERVE red carpet treatment) and not by corporate assholes. But again these show the cowardness of the typical Manutd supporter ( me included) who do not bully the club for their rights.

We are Manutd's owners. We pay them to remain filthy rich and we deserve respect

If the same lack of respect was witnessed in Italy or Spain than the club would be in Havoc ( believe me I saw them personally) The grounds would be empty for good while the money men would be very afriad to go out.</strong><hr></blockquote>

With this I agree wholeheartedly,there is an organisation who fight for the rights of the supporter

<a href="http://www.imusa.org/home.shtml" target="_blank">IMUSA</a>

who are glad for more members and more people should be involved.

I personally don`t care where supporters come from as long as they love the club,there are many reasons for people to find United but if a vote was cast I`m sure a large number of daytrippers would be quite happy for the team to relocate to somewhere like Milton Keynes.
Therefore locals who are born into the culture of Manchester/Man Utd are very defensive.
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I would it take it personal because I am from manchester but i am terribly SICK of locals considering the foreign based supporters as inferior.

These ppl pay great money to come to Manchester and watch the team. (Do you know that it takes you up to 500 sterling from Malta to Manchester + tickets) They are ripped off by satellites rights and Manutd kits and you call them Glory hunters.

In Malta for example there are ppl who have supported the club from the early 40s and 50s. They DO NOT deserve to be treated like that expecially when their money are vital for the team.

Man I love the locals ( I Have loads of friends from Manchester) but I dont see them as more loyal to the foreign based supporters. They are
only fortunate.

In that post I didnt want to insult the home based supporters ( I am one of them dummy) I just wanted to make them taste their own medicine. Every day real Manutd supporters are insulted just because they aren Manutd based and THAT IS NOT FAIR

BTW CALLING A PERSON TO FIGHT IN A PUB RATHER THAN ONE TO ONE IS CALLED COWARDNESS.
 
Once again you repeat the same stupidity by calling me a dummy over the internet when it is your lack of understanding that is in question.

I have never anywhere,in any post or in the real world insulted supporters of United wherever they are from and if you re-read my post with your brain in gear you will see I was saying that you know it would be unwise to spew your anti-local views to locals.You tar ALL locals with the same brush in your posts and it was this I was getting at.

You were born in Manchester but you `ve never said at what age you left.If it was as a baby you are hardly Mancunian.
Where in Manc were you born?
 
Originally posted by sin65:
<strong>

With this I agree wholeheartedly,there is an organisation who fight for the rights of the supporter

<a href="http://www.imusa.org/home.shtml" target="_blank">IMUSA</a>

who are glad for more members and more people should be involved.

I personally don`t care where supporters come from as long as they love the club,there are many reasons for people to find United but if a vote was cast I`m sure a large number of daytrippers would be quite happy for the team to relocate to somewhere like Milton Keynes.
Therefore locals who are born into the culture of Manchester/Man Utd are very defensive.</strong><hr></blockquote>

totally agree with all that, mate. Well said again.
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Originally posted by sin65:
<strong>Once again you repeat the same stupidity by calling me a dummy over the internet when it is your lack of understanding that is in question.

I have never anywhere,in any post or in the real world insulted supporters of United wherever they are from and if you re-read my post with your brain in gear you will see I was saying that you know it would be unwise to spew your anti-local views to locals.You tar ALL locals with the same brush in your posts and it was this I was getting at.

You were born in Manchester but you `ve never said at what age you left.If it was as a baby you are hardly Mancunian.
Where in Manc were you born?</strong><hr></blockquote>

he's busily searching the internet to find the names of hospitals...

;)
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Originally posted by mancred:
<strong>

he's busily searching the internet to find the names of hospitals...

;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

Unfortunately I have to go home from work for the weekend and cannot carry on our conversation Mr Devilish.
I had a good workmate ,who was a Maltese bloke, in Miles Platting (thats in Manchester ;) )who was a massive Red fan so I know how passionate they support United,I was just hoping for his sake you wer`nt related ;)
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Originally posted by mancred:
<strong>


How can you say all this about how important it is for a player to love the club, and then finish by saying "talent is as important (if not more important)? Contradiction.

.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sorry. I should have made myself clearer. What I mean to say is that there are plenty of talented players in the world who would be willing to give their best for Utd and although they may not be born and bred Man Utd like the Nevilles, they would still love Utd to a great extent if they came to OT. So when chosing between such players, talent is more important as love for the club is considered a neccesity anyway.
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Phil Neville - a real Rolls Royce of a player as Eric Harrison once said.....Absolutely true - looks good, runs well always faithful, but is way overrated and a cheaper model would do the same job.....

Devellish you are hitting the right notes.
 
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