Evra accuses Suarez of racist remarks | Suarez guilty of racial abuse

CnutOfAllCnuts said:
Dumbstar, a few questions to you and other Liverpool fans:

1. Did Suarez call Evra black?
2. Has the club (Liverpool) and the management handled the case badly?
3. Why are Liverpool fans so angry at Sir Alex and Evra in regards to this case?
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From what I’ve seen of the responses, including Suarez’s own statement:

1. He called him ‘negro’ once which in this country translates to black. He admits how it comes across from Spanish to English is not accepted and will avoid in all languages in future.
2. The club has handled this badly in regards to 1. not forcing Suarez to stay schtum (nothing to hide?), 2. yet again hiring cr*p lawyers, 3. T-shirt campaign was extremely ill advised. The support for Suarez after the case however is considered to be ok as the thought is he has been stitched up.
3. The anger is at Evra as he said he was called n166er, negro, black, 5, 7, 10 times. Story was changed often. Therefore the belief is he is being mischievous after mis-hearing Suarez. Evra is stitching up a fellow human and professional. Ferguson, well everyone hates Ferguson don’t they? ;)

All the above are what I’ve been reading in various places, not necessarily my own opinions.
 
Dumbstar said:
Have to admit to a bit of brainwashing, understandable from my personal standpoint. However, your answers above have helped me a little. Always ask the other side if in doubt.

I will try and pose these answers as questions back to the other side again in different forums.
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Good on ya' sport.
 
Dumbstar said:
From what I’ve seen of the responses, including Suarez’s own statement:

1. He called him ‘negro’ once which in this country translates to black. He admits how it comes across from Spanish to English is not accepted and will avoid in all languages in future.
2. The club has handled this badly in regards to 1. not forcing Suarez to stay schtum (nothing to hide?), 2. yet again hiring cr*p lawyers, 3. T-shirt campaign was extremely ill advised. The support for Suarez after the case however is considered to be ok as the thought is he has been stitched up.
3. The anger is at Evra as he said he was called n166er, negro, black, 5, 7, 10 times. Story was changed often. Therefore the belief is he is being mischievous after mis-hearing Suarez. Evra is stitching up a fellow human and professional. Ferguson, well everyone hates Ferguson don’t they? ;)

All the above are what I’ve been reading in various places, not necessarily my own opinions.
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1. So, yes then?
2. In what way has he been stitched up? It's quite clear that in one way or another he has used racist language towards Evra.
3. Evra, Sir Alex and United haven't really said anything in public about the case. Where and when has Evra changed his story?
 
Dumbstar said:
The real gripe LFC fans have with the FA’s process is:

1. The FA are the prosecutors
2. The FA are the judges (“independent” panel meaningless as it is only selected and re-selected by the FA)
3. Evra was allowed x attempts at viewing the video to ‘get his story straight’. Suarez, none until the day.
4. FA were the executioners

This kind of justice is frowned upon when discussing Saudi or Iranian courts. Yet we have it present in the English FA. Simply saying it’s the “same for everybody” doesn’t make it right either here or Saudi/Iran.

The FA produced no killer evidence (videos, referees, man utd players)

It ended up being Evra’s word against Suarez’s. The prosecution, judges and executioners decided its own plaintiff (Evra) was reliable and the ‘other team’ was wrong.

As an independent fan you must see some room for questions there Africanspur? And some answers would be nice too.
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As a person of Pakistani descent you of all people should understand the seriousness of the case. In Australia being called a Paki is not considered offensive - in the UK it's considered derogatory - although we both know the meaning of the word means "pure/purity" I'm sure you'd be in the right to feel upset and aggrieved even if an Aussie called a Paki regardless of the term not considered offensive in Australia. The word Negro was used during heated exchanges not during friendly banter between mates. Culture excuses simply doesn't wash. Suarez has lived in Europe for 4 years. Surely he should have understood the sensitivity towards the word Negro/Negrito. We should have no sympathy for Suarez despite what he claimed what he said to Evra was not racist, just merely descriptive.

I've said earlier in this thread. Had a United player been found guilty of such behaviour I would demand the club makes the player apologise immediately, and would then expect them to sell the player at the first opportunity. If no action is taken I would boycott the club. I'm sure we would expect the very action same in our work places.

The question you should be asking why is such behaviour been supported, no apology made, and the player being hailed as a martyr. The answer to this question is very obvious - Money and success trumps over racism and principles.
 
I've given up trying to get every LFC-supporting mate I know to see the bigger issue here - they're all caught up in either blaming Evra(if they're particularly stupid) or just proclaiming that Suarez has been stitched up, using ludicrous "evidence" and supposed in-depth knowledge of the spanish language in south America to support their case.

I've yet to come across a single LFC-fan in real life who's called the matter as it is, acknowledged that yes, Suarez did use racist language in a game of football, and, according to the laws in place in the country, is rightfully punished for it. Simple as. It's actually scary how tribalism can colour(sorry for that word) opinions.

What's the dangerous thing is the way Liverpool as a club has acted, basically supplying any closet-racists in their support with a platform at which they can defend racial abuse and still be in line with the clubs official statements and King Kenny's comments. Disgraceful, and it's no surprise that there was that episode at Anfield on friday.
 
Dumbstar said:
From what I’ve seen of the responses, including Suarez’s own statement:

1. He called him ‘negro’ once which in this country translates to black. He admits how it comes across from Spanish to English is not accepted and will avoid in all languages in future.
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On what evidence do you believe it was only said once? Blind loyalty?

3. The anger is at Evra as he said he was called n166er, negro, black, 5, 7, 10 times. Story was changed often. Therefore the belief is he is being mischievous after mis-hearing Suarez. Evra is stitching up a fellow human and professional. Ferguson, well everyone hates Ferguson don’t they? ;)
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Evra was subjected to racism how is that stitching up a fellow human being or being mischievous? Evra mis-hearing does not hold water after Suarez accepted calling him a Negro. SAF is one of the most respected Managers in the world outside of Anfield.
 
thoward said:
John Aldridge, Ireland and Liverpool Legend is Red All Over - Sunday World Sport
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Meanwhile, Evra is likely to be targeted by rival players as they look to wind him up by whispering comments of all varieties in his ear and his next trip to Anfield is certain to be a very spicy occasion. I would not fancy being in his boots right now, that's for certain.
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In an article comprised principally of moronic statements, this stands out.

Who'd have thought it? Now the whole league knows that you can wind up a black player by referring to the colour of his skin. It's gonna be open season out there.... :rolleyes:
 
thoward said:
John Aldridge, Ireland and Liverpool Legend is Red All Over - Sunday World Sport
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Victim mentality rules.
I play a lot of football with a guy who is a L**erpool fan. His reaction was exemplary. Suarez knew what he was doing, after 3 years in the Eriedivisie, admitted it (he's a bit thick) (obviously thinking it was OK or that he'd get away with it) and has been rightly punished after an exhaustive and detailed enquiry by the correct body. The end. Nice one Joel..
 
thoward said:
John Aldridge, Ireland and Liverpool Legend is Red All Over - Sunday World Sport
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From the article above. This is the ridiculousness of the 'defence' in a nutshell:

"The United full-back had a few nasty jibes at Suarez's family in South America. The Liverpool man then hit back by using a term that is not considered to be derogatory at all back in his native Uruguay."

Yep, when I'm in an argument with someone and they, say, insult my family, I always 'hit back' with a term that is not considered derogatory.
 
Reading that article the only conclusion is that Aldridge is deliberately trying to peddle mistruths or he's too stupid to actually understand the facts of this case. More of the same tribal idiocy with not one shred of understanding of who is actually the victim in all this. It's disgusting
 
Aldo was a hero of mine, as he helped to get my local team promoted back in the early 80's, so I've no axe to grind with him...but his bias is all-too obvious here. And, anyway, if Dalglish & co really had evidence of behind-the-scenes shenanigans, they would have released it already.
 
I love the idea that Suarez "hit back" with a non-derogatory remark. Rubbish hitting-back from Suarez...
 
robthered said:
The Liverpool man then hit back by using a term that is not considered to be derogatory at all back in his native Uruguay.
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I wonder if it's actually true. Do we have any posters from Uruguay? Sorry if I missed this, but it's impossible to read through all comments.
 
robthered said:
From the article above. This is the ridiculousness of the 'defence' in a nutshell:

"The United full-back had a few nasty jibes at Suarez's family in South America. The Liverpool man then hit back by using a term that is not considered to be derogatory at all back in his native Uruguay."

Yep, when I'm in an argument with someone and they, say, insult my family, I always 'hit back' with a term that is not considered derogatory.
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:lol::lol:

Nasty jibes at Suarez's family?

"Your sisters cnut" in Spanish carries the same meaning as "fecking hell", a fact accepted by both parties.

Its like saying if you say "fecking hell" you are making reference to displeasing sex.
 
robthered said:
From the article above. This is the ridiculousness of the 'defence' in a nutshell:

"The United full-back had a few nasty jibes at Suarez's family in South America. The Liverpool man then hit back by using a term that is not considered to be derogatory at all back in his native Uruguay."

Yep, when I'm in an argument with someone and they, say, insult my family, I always 'hit back' with a term that is not considered derogatory.
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No he fecking didn't! He used a figure of speech. Even if it was taken literally, the fact is that Suarez doesn't have a sister.
 
Liverpool FC statement

Liverpool have apologised to Oldham's Tom Adeyemi after he suffered alleged racist abuse at Anfield.

A 20-year-old man from Aintree, Merseyside, has been bailed after he was arrested on suspicion of a racially aggravated public order offence.

On-loan Norwich man Adeyemi was visibly upset during his team's 5-1 defeat.

"The players and club pass on our sincere regrets to Tom Adeyemi for the upset and distress he suffered," said a Liverpool statement.

"Our supporters are renowned throughout the world for their outstanding commitment, passion and fairness. They are drawn from nationalities across the globe with widely diverse backgrounds and heritages.

"The actions of any one individual do not represent our fans. Their stance on these issues is just as resolute as the club's.

"We have a very clearly stated public stance on discrimination and intolerance with dedicated staff that work hard daily on programmes in this important area.

We will continue to take the strongest possible action(s) against unacceptable behaviour

"Regarding the incident that occurred on Friday evening, we have given Merseyside police every possible assistance we can and will continue to provide the necessary support to their investigation in order to ensure this particular incident is dealt with properly.

"We will continue to take the strongest possible action(s) against unacceptable behaviour during our matches."

Professional Footballers Association chief executive Gordon Taylor has spoken to Adeyemi about the incident, which caused Friday's match to be held up for several minutes.

"We can confirm that he was the victim of racist abuse towards the end of the Liverpool v Oldham FA Cup tie last Friday evening," said Taylor.

"This abuse came from a spectator sitting in the Kop section of the ground. Tom has given a full witness statement to the Merseyside police regarding the incident and will continue to assist the police fully in their enquiries."

The Premier League club have promised to ban from Anfield for life anyone found guilty of an offence related to the incident.

It has been a difficult few weeks for the Anfield club, who have seen striker Luis Suarez banned for eight matches for racially abusing Manchester United's Patrice Evra.
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This is exactly the type of statement, and action which should have been taken once Suarez was found guilty.
 
robthered said:
It doesn't matter. You've missed the point. You don't 'hit back' with a term that isn't derogatory. See?
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Hence why Suarez changed his statement because to any reasonable person it seems impossible to argue that you were trying to diffuse a situation while hitting back. You can't be conciliatory and hit back at the same time. Even Suarez could see that. Pity for him that by that time he'd already told his sporting director and Kuyt, in Spanish and Dutch, what he originally said.
 
#07 said:
Hence why Suarez changed his statement because to any reasonable person it seems impossible to argue that you were trying to diffuse a situation while hitting back. You can't be conciliatory and hit back at the same time. Even Suarez could see that. Pity for him that by that time he'd already told his sporting director and Kuyt, in Spanish and Dutch, what he originally said.
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Top of the class!
 
Dumbstar said:
1. He called him ‘negro’ once which in this country translates to black. He admits how it comes across from Spanish to English is not accepted and will avoid in all languages in future.
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..which was in contradiction to official statements initially saying he said absolutely nothing at all, with different stories coming from all angles at Liverpool.
Dumbstar said:
3. The anger is at Evra as he said he was called n166er, negro, black, 5, 7, 10 times. Story was changed often. Therefore the belief is he is being mischievous after mis-hearing Suarez. Evra is stitching up a fellow human and professional. Ferguson, well everyone hates Ferguson don’t they? ;)
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Evra's story was consistent, unlike Suarez', hence why he was found guilty.


Next.
 
Sultan said:
This is exactly the type of statement, and action which should have been taken once Suarez was found guilty.
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I find it hilarious how they'll happily throw their fans to the wolves but when there's an investment at stake (ie Suarez) they'll try to fight and bullshit their way out.

Family club indeed.
 
Zen86 said:
I find it hilarious how they'll happily throw their fans to the wolves but when there's an investment at stake (ie Suarez) they'll try to fight and bullshit their way out.

Family club indeed.
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Quite
 
robthered said:
It doesn't matter. You've missed the point. You don't 'hit back' with a term that isn't derogatory. See?
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Oh yeah, I agree.

I am just asking this generally, not in the context of what he said. They've been saying that it's not an insult in Uruguay, but I am just curious if it is really true.
 
KGBhoy said:
Oh yeah, I agree.

I am just asking this generally, not in the context of what he said. They've been saying that it's not an insult in Uruguay, but I am just curious if it is really true.
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You can use it in a friendly way between mates - but said in an argument or in a sneering or aggressive manner then it's offensive.
 
Quite frankly the Liverpool management, especially Dalgleish, has handled this in a most unprofessional and incompetent way. Can you imagine any other Premiership side behaving in the way they have? Dalgleish has shown that he is not very clever and not fit to call himself a Manager. I am very surprised that the owners, who have an excellent reputation in the US, have not clamped down on the idiots at Anfield.

Incidentally, I believe they used a small firm of solicitors from Harrogate connected to one of their female executives, instead of a legal firm specialising in sport.
 
Legend16 said:
Reading that article the only conclusion is that Aldridge is deliberately trying to peddle mistruths or he's too stupid to actually understand the facts of this case. More of the same tribal idiocy with not one shred of understanding of who is actually the victim in all this. It's disgusting
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Having had the misfortune to read a couple of Aldridge's articles in that paper he is painfully stupid and as biased a columnist/pundit as I've ever seen.
 
Dumbstar said:
3. The anger is at Evra as he said he was called n166er, negro, black, 5, 7, 10 times. Story was changed often. Therefore the belief is he is being mischievous after mis-hearing Suarez. Evra is stitching up a fellow human and professional.
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[citation needed]
 
Sultan said:
Liverpool have apologised to Oldham's Tom Adeyemi after he suffered alleged racist abuse at Anfield.

A 20-year-old man from Aintree, Merseyside, has been bailed after he was arrested on suspicion of a racially aggravated public order offence.

On-loan Norwich man Adeyemi was visibly upset during his team's 5-1 defeat.

"The players and club pass on our sincere regrets to Tom Adeyemi for the upset and distress he suffered," said a Liverpool statement.

So is this personal to Evra or something?

"Our supporters are renowned throughout the world for their outstanding commitment, passion and fairness. They are drawn from nationalities across the globe with widely diverse backgrounds and heritages.

"The actions of any one individual do not represent our fans. Their stance on these issues is just as resolute as the club's.

"We have a very clearly stated public stance on discrimination and intolerance with dedicated staff that work hard daily on programmes in this important area.

(Too fecking right you do)

We will continue to take the strongest possible action(s) against unacceptable behaviour

"Regarding the incident that occurred on Friday evening, we have given Merseyside police every possible assistance we can and will continue to provide the necessary support to their investigation in order to ensure this particular incident is dealt with properly.

"We will continue to take the strongest possible action(s) against unacceptable behaviour during our matches."

Unless it involves one of your players that is.

Professional Footballers Association chief executive Gordon Taylor has spoken to Adeyemi about the incident, which caused Friday's match to be held up for several minutes.

"We can confirm that he was the victim of racist abuse towards the end of the Liverpool v Oldham FA Cup tie last Friday evening," said Taylor.

"This abuse came from a spectator sitting in the Kop section of the ground. Tom has given a full witness statement to the Merseyside police regarding the incident and will continue to assist the police fully in their enquiries."

The Premier League club have promised to ban from Anfield for life anyone found guilty of an offence related to the incident.

It has been a difficult few weeks for the Anfield club, who have seen striker Luis Suarez banned for eight matches for racially abusing Manchester United's Patrice Evra.
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Right, I'm confused. Is this from the same people who wrote the original Suarez statement? It's just that they've gone from condoning racism to condemning it.

"I don't speak to blacks."

"You black bastard."

If anything, what Suarez said is worse. He's clearly discriminating against black people in a pretty awful way, whereas the other guy has called Adeyemi a bastard, but included his skin colour.

Pathetic little club.
 
10 times is a figure of speech in France according to the panel, like how you might say 'I said it a couple of times' when you actually said it 3 or 4 times, despite the literal meaning being 2.
 
Zen86 said:
I find it hilarious how they'll happily throw their fans to the wolves but when there's an investment at stake (ie Suarez) they'll try to fight and bullshit their way out.

Family club indeed.
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This is a bit two faced considering the fan has yet to be accused of saying black and not manc. Like Sultan said, maybe we should have apologised and moved on with Suarez.

This is not going to end well for Evra (as mentioned above the racial windups every game), LFC or Suarez. There are no winners, just losers.
 
Dumbstar said:
This is a bit two faced considering the fan has yet to be accused of saying black and not manc. Like Sultan said, maybe we should have apologised and moved on with Suarez.

This is not going to end well for Evra (as mentioned above the racial windups every game), LFC or Suarez. There are no winners, just losers.
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I disagree this will only end badly for LFC. Evra can move on, Suarez will almost certainly move, leaving LFC with a tainted legacy
 
Dumbstar said:
This is a bit two faced considering the fan has yet to be accused of saying black and not manc. Like Sultan said, maybe we should have apologised and moved on with Suarez.

This is not going to end well for Evra (as mentioned above the racial windups every game), LFC or Suarez. There are no winners, just losers.
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this has been said a few times and the inference of it is actually quite repulsive. What exactly were Evras alternatives? Should he have said nothing? He believed he had been racially abused. That hasnt changed. Are you trying to imply it would have been better on him had he said nothing. What decade are you living in?

There seems to be this sentiment that Evra has brought this on himself and its all coming from Liverpool. Its disgusting and Liverpool need to take a long hard look at themselves and see how their posturing and downright abuse of Evra, from every level of your club, is repugnant to the majority of people monitoring this story with the slightest impartiality
 
I didn't mean Evra shouldn't have complained if he was racially abused, nor that he brought it upon himself. I'm just stating what seems likely now, from this unalterable position, going forwards.
 
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