Wait till they’ve relegated City first
Everton deducted 10 points for PSR breach (reduced to 6) | Deducted further 2 points for second breach
- Thread starter SilentWitness
- Start date
Why are they fecking with Everton and giving them points deductions in succession, constantly disrupting their season instead of compiling all they have on them and hitting them at once?
This being levelled at them during an ongoing season is ridiculous when it's a number run on so many charges.
This being levelled at them during an ongoing season is ridiculous when it's a number run on so many charges.
Not the point deductions as such, just the constantly shifting goalposts during the season, especially now during the run-in.
I feel like these types of things should be applied and stuck to at the start of the season, rather than them just being slapped on randomly whenever decisions happen to be made, and then reviewed and changed afterwards.
Lesson here is commit as many infringements as possible a la City. Doesn't seem to matter then
Such a mess
Expected it was going to be a further 2. Our statement despite saying we are going to appeal feels a bit weird and quite weak if you're going to.
This is why the whole thing is a mess and I feel like people are ignoring the psychology of these decisions and ongoing processes in a season. Not just on us but other teams around us.
It's scandalous. Especially with the elephant that is so big it can't even fit in the room.
We've had this discussion before.
What time is there to appeal these if they do it between seasons?
The other solution here is you completing a season, thinking you've survived relegation, then being docked 12 points and dropping into the Championship with no time to appeal.
The authorities actively trying to influence the relegation battle
We truly are in the sports entertainment era of football
We truly are in the sports entertainment era of football
Two points is a weird number.
They really just plucking shit out of thin air.
They really just plucking shit out of thin air.
Prediction time. They are only oiling the machinery with this fecking around with Everton/Forest. Manchester City will be found guilty on about 15 charges including obstruction and non co-operation. They will get a 40-point deduction, in the 2025 season. They will be fined 90 million euros. Past trophies will not be stripped.
The whole thing has been handled terribly (although I can't get on board with suggestions it should be done between seasons).
The Premier League came up with a methodology to calculate the deduction, and landed at 10 points. The independent panel rejected that methodology, but still arrived at 10 points.
Two separate bodies arrived at 10 points being fair, using separate methodology, then Everton appealed and it was reduced to six, which presumably involved a third methodology. Forest were then deducted four points and Everton a further two for what I believe are effectively the same offences. Who knows how they arrived at those figures.
Ooo like it.
Prediction: they are oiling the machinery with this fecking around with Everton/Forest. Manchester City will be found guilty on the majority of charges, but will claim significant mitigation. They will get a 5 point deduction, an apology from the FA/EPL/Prime Minister and the UK will sell an aircraft carrier to the UAE.
If they give them the sentence before the season ends, then the points deduction will be for this season.
The problem is mainly that there is no seemingly definitive way of how to deal with things. Either in the season or in the summer. It doesn't matter because each IC is interpreting the rules differently for both different clubs and the same club. It's just stupid and I don't think it's fair on anyone.
Very weird and feels really harsh on Everton. I feel they should juts take it and move on though.
They will stay up anyway and they have some winnable games against Chelsea, Brentford, Luton and Sheff Utd.
Take the 2 points, draw a line under it and move on.
If City don't get spanked with a big deduction in the next season then it's a farce.
They will stay up anyway and they have some winnable games against Chelsea, Brentford, Luton and Sheff Utd.
Take the 2 points, draw a line under it and move on.
If City don't get spanked with a big deduction in the next season then it's a farce.
It will be something ridiculously low like this. The FA are too weak to make an example of City, and they are too worried about the knock on effect of stripping titles and so on. Makes a mockery of the whole process. Teams like Newcastle can potentially go out and over spend, knowing the next season they will face a points deduction and accept than and factor it in to a rebuilding season.
its how rich people operate -
Borrow 10 grand from the bank and its your problem
Borrow a million from the bank and its the banks problem
Shouldn't they get a higher amount of points deducted for a 2nd breach?
As if you get lower points off each time, you might as well rack a few up.
As if you get lower points off each time, you might as well rack a few up.
This is an issue distinct from the idea that it's bad to do it mid-season though, which is something you've said a few times now.
As I said to you last time we discussed it, the psychology aspect may well be present even if you did it between seasons. Everton get docked 12 points for next season and appeal. That appeal process doesn't get completed until the season is underway and it's suddenly hanging over everyone's heads. This also ignores the obvious unfairness to the side that gets relegated in Everton's place the season before.
There are roughly 80 days within the summer to sort things out.
Yes. They do this to make a point that the system works. Essentially, they are setting precedent. Then they will slap City with one bad season and a bad transfer window as punishment. A small price to pay for winning however many titles they have won. City can then carry on business as usual for the next 15 years, until the next time. Or unless they introduce the "luxury tax", which simply prevents City from breaking the rules in the first place allowing them to do as they please. The government, and by extension the Premier League, will do whatever it takes to protect City. No one is risking a diplomatic incident over a football club.
City will be found not guilty but fined £200k, and given a five point deduction, for bringing the game into disrepute and for failing to provide evidence when requested.
Then the new rules for a luxury tax will come into force and City will suddenly disclose that Haaland is actually paid an extra £50 million a year through what used to be a subsidiary, but is now being paid by City themselves.
Haha seem like the FA are just using Everton as the crash dummy at this point...seeing what happens and cleaning it up afterwards.
Think it depends on the severity of the breach. Like if you are cauught breaking the law and sentenced to 10 years for murder, it shouldn’t automatically follow that you get 12 more years added for committing a second breach through jaywalking.
It being a second deduction in the same season probably why they went the opposite way here.
Too bad Everton are not a US club. They could have sued the FA for emotional damage and defamation.
In its written reasons the independent commission accepted the club's arguments for mitigation in relation to the fact the club has:
- Already been deducted points this season
- Loss of club revenue because of the suspension of a sponsorship deal with Russian company USM
- An early admission of guilt
So we have now establish a pattern of four points on average per infraction. That means City will be deducted 452 points. 114 points in the Premier League next year, 138 points in the Championship the following, then 138 in League One again. That´s 390 points off. I guess that means they can fight for immediate promotion from League Two, if they win all 46 matches against a 62 point deduction. I mean that´s what will happen right. 
Bloody child's play. Either give them the deduction at the end of the season or for the start of the next season (probably the former to make it fair on teams like Luton)
Deducting points then giving them back then deducting shows they don't know what they're doing.
Deducting points then giving them back then deducting shows they don't know what they're doing.
This is a mess, if Everton appeal and stay up by a point. Then whatever relegated team will probably take action against the league and possibly even Everton.
The whole thing is a farce, it should be dealt with off season and with no right to appeal or change once the whistle blows to start the first game of the season.
The whole thing is a farce, it should be dealt with off season and with no right to appeal or change once the whistle blows to start the first game of the season.
The logical thing for me is they just say any points deductions come at the start of the subsequent season and all appeals have to be wrapped up by season's end. It should be quite a rare occurrence now it's being enforced and also it shouldn't take long at all to go through an appeal, it's really binary if you did or did not breach the cap and then they just need to settle on a standard points deduction/punishment. There'll be an initial wave of clubs getting caught now and then it'll just die off unless they make the punishment pathetic and clubs willingly breach it.
So they will still probably finish higher in the league than us.
Making it up
As we go along
As we go along
The 115 charges are only from PL and does not apply to championship or lower leagues. So they start 2024/25 with -452 pts. Then if they make 90 pts in that season. They get relegated to Championship. Then when they come back in 2026/27, they get applied the -362 pts. And so on. No chance.So we have now establish a pattern of four points on average per infraction. That means City will be deducted 452 points. 114 points in the Premier League next year, 138 points in the Championship the following, then 138 in League One again. That´s 390 points off. I guess that means they can fight for immediate promotion from League Two, if they win all 46 matches against a 62 point deduction. I mean that´s what will happen right.
And there were 101 days between your 10 point deduction and it being reduced to 6 points, and a further 42 days between that and the additional deduction you've been handed today.
The last game of the season is 19th May. if you were slapped with a 12 point deduction for 2024/25 on the 20th, 101 days from then takes you to 28th August (which would likely be three or four games into the season), and 153 days from then takes you to 19th October (which would be eight or nine games into the season).
This obviously just gets deeper into the following season the longer there is between the final game and the punishment being announced.
Again, this ignores how unfair this would be to the team that finished 18th.
I agree the process is shit and there needs to be a more black and white explanation of the punishments and how they're calculated, but I don't think it happening mid-season is actually one of the issues. You're hiding behind the psychological effect it may have on other teams as a way of distracting from the fact that delaying anything until the next season is more favourable for Everton (at least in the form of a stay of execution).
There will never be a perfect way to do it, I just think the fairest way is not during a season. I'm not hiding behind anything. I don't care who it is, Everton, Forest, Leicester or otherwise.
And I disagree.
You're now two points off the drop, making relegation a real possibility.
If you hadn't received any points deductions this season, and finished two to four points off 18th (as you did last season and the season before), then someone's getting relegated in your place just so you can start the next campaign on a negative total.
This is objectively more unfair than a hypothetical psychological impact on the relegation battlers during the season, especially when any appeals may bring that into play anyway.