Everton 2022/23 | Dyche Dyche baby

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DixieDean said:
It really pisses me off and shows a lack of football intelligence when people say 'no one else could have done a better job'. It's just an insane opinion that I've heard a couple of people say when talking about Lampard's position. I read the exact same thing said about Ole during the end of his spell at Utd. Again, just drivel.

What do these people think a football manager is supposed to do? You think the players are crap? Well, guess what? Under a better coach those same players might well perform a whole lot better.

I'd go as far to say that a decent to good coach would get this everton squad to 11-14th. No problem at all.
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I agree with this.
Everton's squad is not that bad. It is truly incredible how Lampard is still manager, many have been sacked for less. Probably the real reason behind the hate towards the board is related to appointing and now, not sacking Lampard.
 
DixieDean said:
It really pisses me off and shows a lack of football intelligence when people say 'no one else could have done a better job'. It's just an insane opinion that I've heard a couple of people say when talking about Lampard's position. I read the exact same thing said about Ole during the end of his spell at Utd. Again, just drivel.

What do these people think a football manager is supposed to do? You think the players are crap? Well, guess what? Under a better coach those same players might well perform a whole lot better.

I'd go as far to say that a decent to good coach would get this everton squad to 11-14th. No problem at all.
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An obvious example is Howe at Newcastle. Yes, he brought in four new players and we don't have the means to do that (although I think we could get two if we really wanted to) but he went from 1 win in the first 18 PL games to 12 in the next 20 games.

We have 3 wins. I reckon we need about 9 wins to be definitely safe. We definitely won't get that with Lampard and I doubt we would with a new manager either but at least 6 is achievable with this squad and one or two additions.
 
fergiewherearethou said:
I agree with this.
Everton's squad is not that bad. It is truly incredible how Lampard is still manager, many have been sacked for less. Probably the real reason behind the hate towards the board is related to appointing and now, not sacking Lampard.
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I think overall it's an awfully unbalanced squad thats very low on attacking quality and littered with players who've only ever really known relegation battles or being relegated.

Pickford is a massive knobhead.

The centre backs are all over the place anytime I've watched them. Tarkowski anytime I've seen him has been very poor, Coady, Keane, Holgate and Mina aren't all that great either

The full backs are either pretty rubbish or in Colemans case finished.

The midfield has too many work horse players with very little attacking threat. Doucoure, Gueye and Onana are decent, but they aren't really incisive ball players. Garner has gone there and done feck all. That middle aged looking house wife Gordon believed his own hype and is now doing feck all.

McNeill, Grey and Iwobi are all very hit and miss. Townsend offers a few quality moments as season. He may as well just retire.

DCL just looks like he's not arsed, he gets very little service and Maupay just doesn't have enough goals in him.

Overall I'd say 14/15th is about as much anyone could get out of that squad. Unless they could find some creative players.
 
Oranges038 said:
Garner has gone there and done feck all.
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I remember a few fans being critical of United to sell him. It was clear that Ten Hag gave him the chances and he was not good enough. He is struggling to get into the Everton squad let alone first team.

Everton do not have a midfield passer and Garner can't get in shows the level he is at.
 
If you're going to talk with authority on another club then you'd do well to realise that Garner has been out with injury and his season has been disrupted by injury issues.
 
What levels can Onana reach? Seems very solid defensively, does he have enough going forward in terms of passing and the like?
 
Oranges038 said:
I think overall it's an awfully unbalanced squad thats very low on attacking quality and littered with players who've only ever really known relegation battles or being relegated.

Pickford is a massive knobhead.

The centre backs are all over the place anytime I've watched them. Tarkowski anytime I've seen him has been very poor, Coady, Keane, Holgate and Mina aren't all that great either

The full backs are either pretty rubbish or in Colemans case finished.

The midfield has too many work horse players with very little attacking threat. Doucoure, Gueye and Onana are decent, but they aren't really incisive ball players. Garner has gone there and done feck all. That middle aged looking house wife Gordon believed his own hype and is now doing feck all.

McNeill, Grey and Iwobi are all very hit and miss. Townsend offers a few quality moments as season. He may as well just retire.

DCL just looks like he's not arsed, he gets very little service and Maupay just doesn't have enough goals in him.

Overall I'd say 14/15th is about as much anyone could get out of that squad. Unless they could find some creative players.
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Let's be honest and forget current form.
Many of their players are internationals, English internationals or at some point there were in the England squad.
They have issues with their fullbacks, but Lampard is underachieving massively there just like Fulham, Brighton or Brentford are overachieving with their current managers.
And it's not just about the results, it's the way the team plays, they have absolutely no idea, identity or style.
 
More than enough quality in the squad to stay up. And they'll get a buzz when Lampard eventually leaves

How have they managed to have 2 relegation threatening seasons though? What happened?
 
It would be a shame to see Everton go down but every man and his dog could see Lampard is a shit manager even before he joined them, yet they still persist with him. If he's still there by February I'd say it's too late.
 
redcucumber said:
What levels can Onana reach? Seems very solid defensively, does he have enough going forward in terms of passing and the like?
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Passing needs to improve, or at least concentration levels in terms of not giving away sloppy passes so often does, but he's an excellent ball carrier and ball winner. I think he needs a lot of refinement but can be a very good player. It's also expected as he's barely been exposed to high level first team football in his career. This is his first real season in the first team at a top level and he's doing it in a dysfunctional side.
 
fergiewherearethou said:
Let's be honest and forget current form.
Many of their players are internationals, English internationals or at some point there were in the England squad.
They have issues with their fullbacks, but Lampard is underachieving massively there just like Fulham, Brighton or Brentford are overachieving with their current managers.
And it's not just about the results, it's the way the team plays, they have absolutely no idea, identity or style.
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Not sure what form at your club has to do with being an international. Is Pickford the only regular in the England squad?

Style and tactics that's on Lampard, like Rafa he was the wrong man for the job from day 1. I'm not sure what football he tries to play, never have been.

But looking at that squad it isn't really built for anything other than sitting in and hitting teams on the break. It's a big Sam wet dream, big defenders, physical midfielders and pacy enough forwards.

They aren't all that terrible overall defensively, they don't concede all that many and aren't getting hammered. People were saying the same about Norwich a year or so ago and look where they ended up. Some of the goals they concede are terrible though.

Their main problem is they just have no reliable creativity anywhere in that squad. 15 goals scored in 19 matches or whatever it is, is relegation stuff. That's not a manager problem, that's a squad problem that needs to be fixed if they are to stay up.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
More than enough quality in the squad to stay up. And they'll get a buzz when Lampard eventually leaves

How have they managed to have 2 relegation threatening seasons though? What happened?
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Is it though? They have better players than Bournemouth and Forest, but that's probably it. I think Southampton and Leeds are around the same level and everyone else is considerably better.

Aside from Pickford, who I think is really underrated on here, who do they have?

Calver-Lewin is their best attacker. He scored 6 goals in 28 games in two years.

Gordon is the most overrated player in the league. McNeil is a former most overrated player in the league.

There is no one in midfield who can pass the ball at above average level.

Wingbacks are mediocre at best.

Centre backs are alright though I guess.

But overall, their squad is really bad.
 
SilentWitness said:
Passing needs to improve, or at least concentration levels in terms of not giving away sloppy passes so often does, but he's an excellent ball carrier and ball winner. I think he needs a lot of refinement but can be a very good player. It's also expected as he's barely been exposed to high level first team football in his career. This is his first real season in the first team at a top level and he's doing it in a dysfunctional side.
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Thanks for that. Yep, I watched him at OT the other week and he stood out. Great balling carrying abilities as you said, on top of the more obvious defensive stuff. It'll be interesting to see how his career develops.
 
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I think they have enough to stay up and Lampard has been poor for them. His comments about knowing they'd be in a relegation scrap before the season started just spreads negativity and sets standards so low.

I do think they're a bottom half of the table team though and with only 2 points separating 20th to 14th, things could change very quickly. They are desperate for a win!

West Ham this weekend is an absolutely massive game for both teams. Two big clubs that shouldn't be where they are having a proper regelation 6 pointer.
 
SilentWitness said:
If you're going to talk with authority on another club then you'd do well to realise that Garner has been out with injury and his season has been disrupted by injury issues.
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Was just going to say this.

Tarkowski and Coady have both been good too (from what I’ve seen), as has Iwobi.

Your fullbacks aren’t that bad either although lack experience.
 
I think Lampard needs to get more from what he has as a coach. The players at their best level are good enough collectively to stay up. Easily infact.

The issue is collectively they aren’t good enough to just coast by which is what I get the impression the likes of DCL is doing.

I do think the central midfield is very unbalanced too. There’s no creativity or ball retention, something which Sigurdson and Allan both offered (Gomes too to some degree).
 
Oranges038 said:
Not sure what form at your club has to do with being an international. Is Pickford the only regular in the England squad?

Style and tactics that's on Lampard, like Rafa he was the wrong man for the job from day 1. I'm not sure what football he tries to play, never have been.

But looking at that squad it isn't really built for anything other than sitting in and hitting teams on the break. It's a big Sam wet dream, big defenders, physical midfielders and pacy enough forwards.

They aren't all that terrible overall defensively, they don't concede all that many and aren't getting hammered. People were saying the same about Norwich a year or so ago and look where they ended up. Some of the goals they concede are terrible though.

Their main problem is they just have no reliable creativity anywhere in that squad. 15 goals scored in 19 matches or whatever it is, is relegation stuff. That's not a manager problem, that's a squad problem that needs to be fixed if they are to stay up.
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I was refering to the fact that:

Pickford is England's goalkeeper
Keane, DCL and Tarkowski were selected in the national team at some point
Mina is a Columbian international.
Iwobi and Onana play for Nigeria.
Gueye for Senegal

There was a time, not long ago, when even on this forum, some of our fans expressed their wish that DCL, Gueye or M Keane to join us.

The team is not relegation bad and I can't agree with the fact that the manager is only responsible for conceding goals and where it comes to not scoring it's not his fault, it's the player's.
Also, Lampard is has not arrived there yesterday, he had enough time to make the necessary changes. He is underachieving at Everton like he did at Chelsea.
 
It's tricky to see who could takeover Lampard. I think the club needs their own man like a new Moyes, a guy well researched and that can be with the club for a few years and change the image of the club to more of an attacking football style.

Perhaps Carrick type is more suited than Rooney even.
 
The total lack of creativity from midfield is shocking squad management, feels like only yesterday that Everton had ten number 10s.
 
fergiewherearethou said:
I was refering to the fact that:

Pickford is England's goalkeeper
Keane, DCL and Tarkowski were selected in the national team at some point
Mina is a Columbian international.
Iwobi and Onana play for Nigeria.
Gueye for Senegal

There was a time, not long ago, when even on this forum, some of our fans expressed their wish that DCL, Gueye or M Keane to join us.

The team is not relegation bad and I can't agree with the fact that the manager is only responsible for conceding goals and where it comes to not scoring it's not his fault, it's the player's.
Also, Lampard is has not arrived there yesterday, he had enough time to make the necessary changes. He is underachieving at Everton like he did at Chelsea.
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He's just not a very good manager at this level. Ancellotti finished 10th and 12th with a better squad. Lampard is a worse manager with a worse group of players. You agreed a better manager might have them up to 14th?. Theres only 2/3 points in the difference, so you are literally talking about only 1 more win in 19 games.

I'm not defemding Lampard here, but there's not many managers who would have them much better off than they currently are. Anyone who saw this squad as being in anything other than a relegation battle was dreaming.
 
@Oranges038 15 goals in 19 games is the mangers fault! Chances are not being created. That's on him. If the team were creating chanes and missing them then that's on the players. He's shite. And, I think, just about every other manager in the league would avoid relegation with this squad.

One of the those rare games coming up were a win against West Ham is bad news if it keeps him in the job.
 
DixieDean said:
@Oranges038 15 goals in 19 games is the mangers fault! Chances are not being created. That's on him. If the team were creating chanes and missing them then that's on the players. He's shite. And, I think, just about every other manager in the league would avoid relegation with this squad.

One of the those rare games coming up were a win against West Ham is bad news if it keeps him in the job.
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It’s okay. We can draw, both managers get sacked and Moyes takes over. :drool:

:(
 
DixieDean said:
@Oranges038 15 goals in 19 games is the mangers fault! Chances are not being created. That's on him. If the team were creating chanes and missing them then that's on the players. He's shite. And, I think, just about every other manager in the league would avoid relegation with this squad.

One of the those rare games coming up were a win against West Ham is bad news if it keeps him in the job.
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Under a different manager who's going to create those chances?
 
DixieDean said:
@Oranges038 15 goals in 19 games is the mangers fault! Chances are not being created. That's on him. If the team were creating chanes and missing them then that's on the players. He's shite. And, I think, just about every other manager in the league would avoid relegation with this squad.

One of the those rare games coming up were a win against West Ham is bad news if it keeps him in the job.
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I think your team is a bit rubbish, to be honest. Calvert-Lewin was a one-season wonder who is injury prone. The rest of the forwards have always been average (Maupay etc.)

It is very much relegation standard.
 
Oranges038 said:
Under a different manager who's going to create those chances?
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Up to a manager to put the right system in place, isn't it? If Ten Hag was the everton coach this season were do you think they would finish?

I'm not saying that the squad is anywhere near good, but it's much better than what Lampard is doing with it.
 
DixieDean said:
Up to a manager to put the right system in place, isn't it? If Ten Hag was the everton coach this season were do you think they would finish?

I'm not saying that the squad is anywhere near good, but it's much better than what Lampard is doing with it.
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I'm not sure about that, it really looks like a poor and unbalanced squad, with very little attacking quality.


When it comes to systems , is there one other than the Big Sam special of sit deep and play direct that could get this lot a) scoring more goals and b) keeping them out at the other end at the same time? That's what got Everton up to 8th under him and from memory the fans couldn't wait to see the back off him.

As for Ten Hag, I'll be honest, with all things being the same as what Lampard has right now. Probably not far off relegation, I'd imagine it would have been a De Boer at Palace rerun, trying to play football but getting beat and not scoring goals.
 
Oranges038 said:
I'm not sure about that, it really looks like a poor and unbalanced squad, with very little attacking quality.


When it comes to systems , is there one other than the Big Sam special of sit deep and play direct that could get this lot a) scoring more goals and b) keeping them out at the other end at the same time? That's what got Everton up to 8th under him and from memory the fans couldn't wait to see the back off him.

As for Ten Hag, I'll be honest, with all things being the same as what Lampard has right now. Probably not far off relegation, I'd imagine it would have been a De Boer at Palace rerun, trying to play football but getting beat and not scoring goals.
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There is a lot of shite in this league. A really good coach like Ten Hag gets this everton squad to 12th.
 
I've only one thing to say about Everton; Owners, board members, managers and players all come and go but the fans will always be there.
Make yourselves heard tomorrow.
 
Honestly, have no idea what will happen to the new stadium if we go down.

I'm serious when I say it could very well be RIP to the club if relegation happens. Oh well, At least my saturdays will be free.

Might become an Arsenal fan. League champs baby :p
 
Bielsa current favourite. Could be a firework ending to the season for us.
 
Judas said:
They’re going down if they hire Bielsa, I like him but it’s a mental decision to me. Not the right time at all.
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If someone is capable of making average players play some high intensity offensive football that generates chances it’s Bielsa…. My only doubt is wether he’d have enough time to do it now. He certainly needs a few weeks for his magic to kick off.
 
Pintu said:
If someone is capable of making average players play some high intensity offensive football that generates chances it’s Bielsa…. My only doubt is wether he’d have enough time to do it now. He certainly needs a few weeks for his magic to kick off.
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We have two weeks until our next game and the next two are Arsenal and Liverpool which are a bit of a free hit because nobody would expect us to win anyway, so it's important to get someone in and let them lay down their philosophy, whatever it is, promptly.
 
SilentWitness said:
Bielsa current favourite. Could be a firework ending to the season for us.
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Multiple online sources reporting Bielsa has turned the position down.

They also suggest Everton have approached Thomas Frank and he has declined also.

Dyche apparently front runner.
 
TheReligion said:
Multiple online sources reporting Bielsa has turned the position down.

They also suggest Everton have approached Thomas Frank and he has declined also.

Dyche apparently front runner.
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Yeah, that came out after I posted it. :D
 
I think Bielsa mid season could be fireworks.

He usually needs a pre-season with his players to get them fit enough to play his system and to also identify the personnel required.
 
SilentWitness said:
Yeah, that came out after I posted it. :D
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Its citing no funds are available this month which is putting people off?

To be honest the more I look at it the more I think you just need an experienced tactician in as interim to work with what they have. Nothing exciting. Just to keep you up.

That gives you several months to get a longer term manager in for summer and set things up properly (Bielsa then would be better for example).

Not sure who fits that brief though?
 
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