European military power with no American support - AKA the tank counting thread

Korean's want get a slice of that new European spending on arms. While the focus in Europe is on buying European, there are definitely some upsides to buying some hardware from South Korea. Their big industrial capacity would probably allow some quicker delivery times on some items (specially ships and artillery). And their new MBT is a pretty formidable machine.
South Korea Eyes European Market
 
Last edited:
Korean's want get a slice of that new European spending on arms. While the focus in Europe is on buying European, there are definitely some upsides to buying some hardware from South Korea. Their big industrial capacity would probably allow some quicker delivery times on some items (specially ships and artillery). And their new MBT is a pretty formidable machine.
South Korea Eyes European Market
I don't think that is what you wanted to link to.

But yeah, Poland making a major purchase of Korean systems had been quite major news for some time. And just two days ago there was another report that apparently they have ordered another major batch of 180 K2 MBTs which could start delivery as early as April. Their artillery systems also aren't half bad.
 
I don't think that is what you wanted to link to.

But yeah, Poland making a major purchase of Korean systems had been quite major news for some time. And just two days ago there was another report that apparently they have ordered another major batch of 180 K2 MBTs which could start delivery as early as April. Their artillery systems also aren't half bad.
Thanks for catching it. Updated the link now. And yeah, the Korean's are building some decent hardware and can deliver somewhat faster until the Europeans upscale their industry
 
I hate politics in Military affairs.

The F-35 killswitch from a German defense contractor spokesman is a complete load of bollocks.
 
I hate politics in Military affairs.

The F-35 killswitch from a German defense contractor spokesman is a complete load of bollocks.

I did wonder about that. I was working with one of the principal contractors to the project in the early days and never heard anything remotely related to a kill switch, but then they wouldn't have told me if there was.

The closest thing would be to cut off the logistics and data connections, but right now that might actually improve the F35.
 
I did wonder about that. I was working with one of the principal contractors to the project in the early days and never heard anything remotely related to a kill switch, but then they wouldn't have told me if there was.

The closest thing would be to cut off the logistics and data connections, but right now that might actually improve the F35.

There isn't one. It's practically impossible to implement.

It would mean that F-35 would require an internet connection or extremely long wave signal that allows for remote access which is introducing a million security risks.

Forget a kill switch, F-35's don't even have remote tracking as it would require an active connection. This was shown appreciably when an F-35 went missing over US airspace for 2 days and nobody knew where it was.
 
I hate politics in Military affairs.

The F-35 killswitch from a German defense contractor spokesman is a complete load of bollocks.
Is it though? Yes, of course there isn't a hardware or remote software killswitch in the aircraft that bricks it. But factual reality isn't much better, because the F-35 relies on software updates and spare parts supply from the US, and some systems aren't even allowed to be maintained by non-US personnel. If the USA decide to cut a buyer of the system off of those things, that pretty much equals a killswitch. Not an immediate, one-minute-to-the-next one. But it will make the system unusable in due time.

So yeah, it's bollocks and it also isn't. And with the USA in their current state, it is certainly a big part of a potential buyer's consideration how much they would be able to use a system without having to beg their approval.
 
Is it though? Yes, of course there isn't a hardware or remote software killswitch in the aircraft that bricks it. But factual reality isn't much better, because the F-35 relies on software updates and spare parts supply from the US, and some systems aren't even allowed to be maintained by non-US personnel. If the USA decide to cut a buyer of the system off of those things, that pretty much equals a killswitch.

So yeah, it's bollocks and it also isn't. And with the USA in their current state, it is certainly a big part of a potential buyer's consideration how much they would be able to use a system without having to beg their approval.

Software updates don't mean the plane is redundant. It just means that the version you're on isn't as good as the next iteration. For example, most UK F-35's are on Block II, with Block III being pending soon, whereas block IV is already out for some F-35's.

As for supply chain problems, well yeah, but it's hardly a kill switch. It's the same as buying any weapon from any provider. If they shut off the taps you're screwed.
 
Software updates don't mean the plane is redundant. It just means that the version you're on isn't as good as the next iteration. For example, most UK F-35's are on Block II, with Block III being pending soon, whereas block IV is already out for some F-35's.

As for supply chain problems, well yeah, but it's hardly a kill switch. It's the same as buying any weapon from any provider. If they shut off the taps you're screwed.
so this pretty much proves it's a Woodwardesque business to pay a top dollar for a machine that's extremely expensive, quickly becomes 'not as good as the next iteration' due to dependence on the seller to provide software updates and with big supply chain problems.
here's hoping Europe moves on from that shit and focuses on internal production, it seems we're heading in that direction.
 
Software updates don't mean the plane is redundant. It just means that the version you're on isn't as good as the next iteration. For example, most UK F-35's are on Block II, with Block III being pending soon, whereas block IV is already out for some F-35's.

As for supply chain problems, well yeah, but it's hardly a kill switch. It's the same as buying any weapon from any provider. If they shut off the taps you're screwed.
Inability to update the software does very quickly make the aircraft redundant in the F-35's case though. Not only does it mean you cannot adapt new weapons to the plane and can't update with new enemy capabilities. You also cannot update the Mission Data File, which is being provided by ACURL in the US and plays a massive part in the operation of the F-35. It's not like you're just operating a smartphone that is just an OS-patch or tow behind but every app still works, you just don't have the most modern version of it.

If you lose hardware support with most other systems, you can deal with it in some way. Use different parts, mount homegrown weapons, etc. With the F-35, complex and hyperintegrated as it is, that is only possible in an extremely limited capacity.

And again, some parts of the aircraft aren't even allowed to be maintained by non-US personnel, the only exception to that being the Israelis afaik.
 
Inability to update the software does very quickly make the aircraft redundant in the F-35's case though. Not only does it mean you cannot adapt new weapons to the plane and can't update with new enemy capabilities. You also cannot update the Mission Data File, which is being provided by ACURL in the US and plays a massive part in the operation of the F-35. It's not like you're just operating a smartphone that is just an OS-patch or tow behind but every app still works, you just don't have the most modern version of it.

If you lose hardware support with most other systems, you can deal with it in some way. Use different parts, mount homegrown weapons, etc. With the F-35, complex and hyperintegrated as it is, that is only possible in an extremely limited capacity.

And again, some parts of the aircraft aren't even allowed to be maintained by non-US personnel, the only exception to that being the Israelis afaik.

I'm 99% sure that certain countries are building and integrating their own MDF's for the F-35. It would be pretty stupid to not do that. A quick google confirms this.

I'm pretty sure it's just the source code that isn't allowed to be maintained / even looked into. BAE requested it back in the day but they were refused.