Euroland's debt strategy is an economic and moral disgrace.

To be honest, if we maintain any growth whatsoever, it's going to be tough to see how Labour can be re-elected. Ed Balls got the message completely wrong last night - he almost seemed upset that we'd had some growth. That just gives the impression you care more about party politics than about the state of the country.
 
Olympics? World War Three more like. Hour and a half from Kings Cross to bleeding Hammersmith. You know who I had in the back of my cab once? That Seb Coe. Clever fella. Did you know he's a poofter? Naked wrestling with William Hague - well they're all at it ain't they. Put it on expenses, probably. Mind you, fair play to them cripples. My uncle Les is only missing one toe and he's never out of bed, I could count the times I seen the fat cnut down the velodrome on one hand, and that's if I had no fecking fingers.
 
alastair said:
To be honest, if we maintain any growth whatsoever, it's going to be tough to see how Labour can be re-elected. Ed Balls got the message completely wrong last night - he almost seemed upset that we'd had some growth. That just gives the impression you care more about party politics than about the state of the country.
Click to expand...

You underestimate how much people value and rely on public services. I'm not overly optimistic that Labour will perform very strongly at the next election though, as the leadership of the party is a bit of a shambles.

The Tories will try a tax giveaway in 14/15 before the election to try to tempt voters.
 
More good news from Eurodisneyland

Eurozone economic sentiments keeps falling...


Confidence in the euro economy among eurozone companies has slipped to a 38-month low this month, data released this morning showed.

Economic sentiment fell in most countries including Germany (where unemployment is rising)
 
I've read in the Portuguese media that Mrs. Merkel is defending at least more 5 years of European-wide austerity.

I don't know much about economics, but from what I gather, the choice can be roughly simplified as between economic growth and debt reduction. Many argue that the former is important than the later, and even that debt reduction can't be effectively accomplished during heavy recession.

Living in a country who some predict will have a 5% recession next year (and doesn't grow meaningfully for over a decade), and feeling the pain of austerity at a personal and familiar level already - and knowing that for many people it's far worse than us - I'm deeply worried about this and what the likely future of my country or Europe as whole is.

For the ones more informed than me in European/German politics...

How likely is it that Germany's stance will continue to be the main dictator of Eurozone policies as a whole? If countries like Italy, Spain or France (to mention the bigger ones) band together against it can't another compromise be reached?

Does the internal opposition differ significatively from Merkel? I'm mainly thinking about the SPD obviously. If so, what is the likelihood of them winning the 2013 elections?

At the moment I'm trying to hold on to whatever hope possible for a positive future for this country. But it gets harder each day. Our destiny certainly isn't at our hands any more (in many ways, that is certainly a positive thing), so I can only hope that we are positively guided from the outside. But I see so many people disagreeing with the current recovery plans that I question if a few years down the line the powers that be will recognize that this strategy failed and will implement a new one. The problem is, that in the meanwhile, we'll be much poorer, and likely not much less indebted.
 
The rich have had no recession. The world is heading towards circumstances where they control the government policies.

I read a piece in the Sunday Times last weekend and one interviewee said that, instead of being taxed heavily on their wealth, that we should all be grateful and PAY to have these rich people run things for us.
 
Arruda said:
How likely is it that Germany's stance will continue to be the main dictator of Eurozone policies as a whole? If countries like Italy, Spain or France (to mention the bigger ones) band together against it can't another compromise be reached?

"He who pays the Piper calls the Tune". Germany are Bankrolling the whole farce and as the largest creditors they can ask what they like, despite the IMF changing their stance on Austerity.

Italy, Spain and France are fans of the Euro and wont be changing any time soon. They could say that they want to pump some money into the economy to stimulate growth if they wanted to but they dont have much money. In the end they'd fall short and have to ask their creditirs for some cash, namely Germany.


Does the internal opposition differ significatively from Merkel? I'm mainly thinking about the SPD obviously. If so, what is the likelihood of them winning the 2013 elections?

At the moment I'm trying to hold on to whatever hope possible for a positive future for this country. But it gets harder each day. Our destiny certainly isn't at our hands any more (in many ways, that is certainly a positive thing), so I can only hope that we are positively guided from the outside. But I see so many people disagreeing with the current recovery plans that I question if a few years down the line the powers that be will recognize that this strategy failed and will implement a new one. The problem is, that in the meanwhile, we'll be much poorer, and likely not much less indebted.

The Money lenders will argue that it's not their fault you're in the shit. On the bright side they seems to be impressed by the measures taken by portugal to reduce debt so the bank is still open for you. The money will always keep coming as the thought of a default by anyone but greece will sink the Germans.

Personally i find all of this farcical, people dtarving in 21st century europe is hard to believe. The Euro(zone) is a bad joke and doesn't work, it never will in its present format. Without Fiscal and Political Unity things will be llike this for a long time but no leader wants to give up any power over their countries
Click to expand...

.....
 
Bad news for German industry


Germany's industrial sector has received a double-whammy of bad news in the last 30 minutes.

Firstly, industrial output fell much more than expected in September. Output fell by 1.8% month-on-month, compared to forecasts of a 0.5% decline.

The German economics ministry blamed the drop the ongoing eurozone crisis, which has dented demand across Europe. It also predicted that weak orders will hit output in the last three months of 2012.

Secondly, aerospace firm Bombardier has announced that it will close a factor in Aachen, Germany, as part of a plan to cut its workforce by 1,200 people.
 
Stanley Road said:
Bad news for German industry


Germany's industrial sector has received a double-whammy of bad news in the last 30 minutes.

Firstly, industrial output fell much more than expected in September. Output fell by 1.8% month-on-month, compared to forecasts of a 0.5% decline.

The German economics ministry blamed the drop the ongoing eurozone crisis, which has dented demand across Europe. It also predicted that weak orders will hit output in the last three months of 2012.

Secondly, aerospace firm Bombardier has announced that it will close a factor in Aachen, Germany, as part of a plan to cut its workforce by 1,200 people.
Click to expand...

I heard some commentator on TV saying that a huge chunk of Germany exports are to the southern European crisis countries, especially Spain, so it's no surprise that this will be coming to bit them.

Thank you for your replies to my previous post.
 
Official: Eurozone in recession


The eurozone is officially in recession!

Eurostat has just reported that GDP fell by 0.1% in the last three months. That follows the 0.2% contraction in the second quarter - and means the eurozone is in its second recession since the financial crisis began in 2008.
 
Pfff. I just want to vent but don't know where to start.
 
The Greek saga is bewildering, So called world leaders not able to agree whilst playing politics with your future

And just for Jaz

The UK government borrowed £8.6bn to balance the books in October, up from £5.9bn a year ago -- and much worse than the £6bn shortfall pencilled in by economists.

The shortfall was partly due to a tumble in corporation tax receipts, down more than 10%.
 
Stanley Road said:
The Greek saga is bewildering, So called world leaders not able to agree whilst playing politics with your future

And just for Jaz

The UK government borrowed £8.6bn to balance the books in October, up from £5.9bn a year ago -- and much worse than the £6bn shortfall pencilled in by economists.

The shortfall was partly due to a tumble in corporation tax receipts, down more than 10%.
Click to expand...

Indeed, but the left keeps telling us all these big companies make too much money! Evidently not.

The good news is that's Greece is beating it's primary deficit target: http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite2_1_12/11/2012_469593
 
To add to that, as I feel I really should say something, its very hard to know where to start.

Firstly the Left doesn't say that the big companies make too much money, the left says that they don't pay enough tax. If they paid more tax the government would have more money to spend (assuming more didn't more to Jersey or go out of business as your Right would counter.

Alternatively the Left might say that there are too many big businesses and if they were broken up into medium sized businesses like Germany has they would pay more employees and pay more tax (and be less capable of moving to Jersey). This is simple logic; big businesses maximize profits which arent taxed enough and minimize costs which are usually people. This is analogous to paying one man £40,000 or two men £20,000. The man who is paid £40,000 has money to save and does. The men who are paid £20,000 do not have money to save and spend what they have on food, clothes and their families which are all taxed, further fueling the economy. That is very different to saying that big businesses make too much money.

Secondly you aren't comparing the absolute amount of money the big companies are making, you are looking at the change in the amount the big companies are making. If a year ago the big companies made a lot of money and this year they didn't, but the little companies made more money then there wouldn't be a problem. Last year the big companies made X, this year the big companies made Y which is less than X. We don't know if last year was an exceptionally good year, or if they money ended up going somewhere else.

Lastly the Left would say that the Tories are fecking up the economy, which this is evidence of. Even though the Tories are politically pro big-business and have policies that reflect that, the big businesses are paying less tax indicating they are suffering.

Speaking on the Andrew Marr programme, the Business Secretary Vince Cable said there was "nothing more galling for small to medium-sized companies
Click to expand...
Video

As an aside the section the telegraph has placed this under is amusing: HOME»FINANCE»PERSONAL FINANCE»CONSUMER TIPS»TAX

More Mittelstand less Tax Havens

Edit- part of that post got corrupted but I can't fix until tommorrow
 
Who's actually making these huge economic decisions? It should be scientists, not phony-economists and politicians.

It's probably too late now, but I don't understand why we didn't pool all analytical knowledge and come up with a solution that had the best chance of improving the situation following 2008. Dickheads with agendas just get in the way.

The whole thing's been a farce. In 200-years mankind will look back on us and laugh with pity.
 
RK said:
Who's actually making these huge economic decisions? It should be scientists, not phony-economists and politicians.

It's probably too late now, but I don't understand why we didn't pool all analytical knowledge and come up with a solution that had the best chance of improving the situation following 2008. Dickheads with agendas just get in the way.

The whole thing's been a farce. In 200-years mankind will look back on us and laugh with pity.
Click to expand...

I look at how my country was governed for the past 30 or so years and I see absolutely no planning for the future or anything. Most politicians only have an incentive to look at short term policies, which guarantees their re-election. There's no one left to look at the big term. I'm getting more and more annoyed at democracies short-comings. Not that I can think of a better solution.
 
EU Budget Summet

What a waste of fkin time and money that is, 20 odd leaders that cant agree, get togethre for days and end up not agreeing. All at someones expense

Why cant they do it by e-mail??

They could all write in their opinions which could be collated, a happy meadium found and a proposal by e-mail sent to all

Do this untill you have agreement and have a summit to sign the paperwork, that could be done in Holiday Inn restaraunt somewhere for fk all
 
Seems like the European Union is on the way to its grave. It was all nice and easy when there was growth, now with stagnation/recession it's everyone looking out for himself.
 
Jaz said:
Indeed, but the left keeps telling us all these big companies make too much money! Evidently not.
Click to expand...

To add to the destruction of this crap, apparently made revenue is up on last year.
 
UK manufacturing output falls


More gloom - this time in the UK, where the latest factory production data is much worse than forecast.

Manufacturing output fell by 1.3% in October compared with September, much weaker than the forecast of a 0.2% decline.

Among industrial firms output fell by 0.8%, against predictions of a month-on-month rise of 0.7%.

Economists and City traders aren't impressed:


Jaz?
 
Jaz said:
The UK should officially exit recession tomorrow.
Click to expand...

And should slip back very soon, amazing recovery

Triple dip recession fears mount on shock service sector contraction


The UK services sector suffered its first contraction in two years in December, suggesting the economy as a whole slipped back into recession in the last quarter of 2012.

Markit's purchasing managers' index shows the service sector fell below the 50 mark which separates growth from contraction last month, registering 48.9, down from 50.2 in November and below the 50.5 that had been forecast.

The service sector accounts for three quarters of the British productivity, and a decline in conditions has major repercussions for the economy.
 
Bundesbank to pull gold from New York and Paris in watershed moment

Germany’s Bundesbank is to repatriate gold reserves held abroad to tighten control and combat currency crises in the future, pulling a chunk of its holdings from New York and all its bullion from Paris.

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
15 Jan 2013

The move marks an extraordinary breakdown in trust between leading central banks and has set off ferment among gold enthusiasts, with some comparing it with France’s withdrawal of gold from the US under President Charles de Gaulle as the Bretton Woods currency system crumbled in the early 1970s.

Handelsblatt said the Bundesbank will announce on Wednesday that it intends to relocate the gold to vaults in Frankfurt, said by insiders to include parts of the old archive library. Germany has 3,396 tons of gold worth roughly £115bn, the world’s second-largest holding after the US. Most of the reserves were stored abroad for safety during the Cold War.

The bank holds an estimated 45pc of its gold at the US Federal Reserve in New York, and 11pc at the Banque de France, lower than originally thought.

A report by Germany’s budget watchdog in October revealed that the bank halved its holding in London a decade ago, a period when the Bank of England was selling part of Britain’s gold at the bottom of the market to buy euros.

The gold was purportedly withdrawn because London was charging €500,000 a year in storage costs. The Bundesbank said part of 930 tonnes brought back was melted down for checks, and "not one gram was missing". It currently holds just 13pc of its total holdings at the Bank of England.

The Bundesbank says there is little reason to keep gold in Paris now that Germany is reunified and at peace. The bank will retain some reserves in London and New York for trading and liquidity purposes.

"Gold stored in your home safe is not immediately available as collateral in case you need foreign currency," said Bundesbank board member Carl-Ludwig Thiele late last year.

"Take, for instance, the key role that the US dollar plays as a reserve currency in the global financial system. The gold held with the New York Fed can, in a crisis, be pledged with the Federal Reserve Bank as collateral against US dollar-denominated liquidity. Similar pound sterling liquidity could be obtained by pledging the gold that is held with the Bank of England."

The latest shift in strategy follows criticism by the German Court of Auditors, who said in a confidential report that the gold held abroad had "never been verified physically" and was not under proper control. A growing chorus of lawmakers in the Bundestag has demanded a return of all Germany’s gold in case the financial crisis escalates.

Veteran gold trader Jim Sinclair said the Bundesbank’s move is a pivotal event in the gold market and the latest warning for investors that they should keep metal bars under their physcial control, rather than relying on paper contracts.

"This sends a message about storing gold near you and taking delivery no matter who is holding it. When France did this years ago it sent panic amongst the US financial leadership. History will look back on this salvo as being the beginning of the end of the US dollar as the reserve currency of choice," he said.

Many analysts say the world is moving towards a de facto gold standard again as China, Russia and other reserve powers boost their holdings to diversify out of dollars and euros.

Unlike Britain, Spain, Switzerland, Holland and others, Germany did not sell any of its gold when bullion was out of fashion. Nor did Italy. The two countries are now sitting on very substantial reserves that are starting to take on political significance.
Click to expand...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...m-New-York-and-Paris-in-watershed-moment.html



What do the Caf economists make of this, do you view it with similar importance?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.