Euroland's debt strategy is an economic and moral disgrace.

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Euroland's debt strategy is an economic and moral disgrace

The International Monetary Fund has demolished the intellectual foundations of Europe's debt crisis strategy.

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
14 Oct 2012


Drastic fiscal tightening in a string of interlinked countries does two to three times more damage than assumed, especially if there is no offsetting monetary stimulus.

Pushed beyond the therapeutic dose, it is self-defeating. At a certain point it becomes pain for pain's sake.

The error has long been obvious in Greece. The EU-IMF Troika originally said the economy would rebound quickly, growing 1.1pc in 2011, and 2.1pc in 2012, and on from there to sunlit uplands.

In fact, Greek GDP contracted by 4.5pc in 2010, 6.9pc in 2011, and is expected to shrink a further 6pc this year, and 4pc next year. If the Troika were a doctor, it would face manslaughter charges.

The IMF now admits -- or rather those in the IMF who always feared this outcome are at last able to say -- that this misjudgement goes far beyond Greece. Tightening by 1pc of GDP in rich countries does not lead to a 0.5pc loss of output over two years as thought.

The "fiscal multiplier" is not the hallowed 0.5 assumed by every finance ministry in Europe. The awful evidence since the global bubble burst in 2008-2009 is that the multiplier is between 0.9 and 1.7, or even higher for EMU's crucifixion belt.

The model constructed over the long boom years -- and largely drawn from isolated cases, each able to export its way out of trouble -- is dangerously wrong in a 1930s-style excess savings crisis with much of the world is slump.

Steen Jakobsen from Saxo Bank says the IMF's mea culpa is the "biggest financial story of the year". Indeed it is. The authorities have repeated the blunders of the Great Depression, but with fewer excuses.

The IMF has now called for a change of course. The Greco-Latins should be given more time to cut their deficits. The AAA creditor bloc should stop cutting altogether until the eurozone is off the reefs.

"Reducing public debt is incredibly difficult without growth," said the IMF's Christine Lagarde. "Instead of frontloading heavily, it is sometimes better to have a bit more time."

One might expect a flicker of recognition from Germany's Wolfgang Schauble that something must change. But no, with half Europe sliding into a second and more menacing leg of depression, and with unemployment already at 25.1pc in Greece and Spain, and 15.9pc in Portugal, he refuses to brook deviation.

"Increasing public debt doesn't create growth, it destroys growth," he snapped back. There is "no alternative" to debt reduction. Always the same pedantry.

He reminds us of the immortal Pfuhl in Tolstoy's War and Peace: "disposed at all times to be irritable", and unshaken in his military certainties even after the defeats of Jena and Auerstadt.

"Failure did not cause him to see the slightest evidence of weakness in his theory. On the contrary, failure was entirely due to the departures made from his theory."

So there will be no change in policy. "Europe is on the way to solving its problems," insists Mr Schauble.

The Latins will have to bear the full burden of adjustment. They alone must continue closing the North-South chasm in competiveness through an "internal devaluation", a posh term for a policy that works chiefly by throwing enough people onto the dole to break labour resistance to pay cuts. It redoubles the contractionary bias of the whole EMU system in the process.

Whether or not the Schauble plan shatters on the barricades of civic revolt is the great unknown. Growth forecasts are all over the place.

Is the Spanish government right to pencil in a fall just 0.5pc next year, with recovery starting by the summer, or is the the Spanish employers group right at -1.6pc, or Citigroup at -3.2pc (and -5.7pc in Portugal), or Nomura at -3pc and -1.5pc again in 2014?

Madhur Jha from HSBC fears that a further 1.5m people in Spain could lose their jobs by the end on 2013, pushing unemployment to over 31pc. His optimistic scenario is 28pc.

The Spanish private sector has born the brunt of cuts so far. The axe must now fall on state employees as well, and that will almost certainly be a condition for a sovereign bail-out. "Cutting jobs in the public sector is politically explosive. The flashpoint for the Spanish economy could be approaching," he said.

The EMU doctrine -- expounded by bail-out chief Klaus Regling as he tours world capitals with his charts -- is that carping "Anglo-Saxons" will have to eat their words about the perils of internal devaluations.

We are told that Ireland has largely closed the gap already, showing what is possible. Indeed it has, but Ireland has one of the most open economies in the world. Its exports are 127pc of GDP. It has a fat trade surplus.

It has never been seriously uncompetitive in the euro. It does not have a misaligned currency. Ireland tells us nothing about Spain, Italy, Portugal, or indeed France.

Spain clearly faces a much tougher task. It has a closed economy. Exports are less than 30pc of GDP. The current account deficit has narrowed from 10pc of GDP to 2pc -- nudging into surplus in July on the reviving tourists trade -- but the low-hanging fruit has been picked and the gains are flattening.

I do not wish to belittle the feat of Spain's formidable companies. They have almost matched the export growth rates of German peers since 2009. Commerce secretary Jaime García Legaz said last week that Spain's economy would be crashing at a 4pc rate without them.

Yet they cannot work miracles. If EMU policy settings had been more expansionary -- if the eurozone had not been forced back into recession by the incompetence of the EU authorities -- then perhaps they could have pulled off an export-led recovery. But the handicap imposed upon them is too great.

The credit crunch across Club Med has left Spanish firms facing a borrowing premium of 2pc or more compared to Northern rivals. The North-South gap is becoming hard-wired into the EMU system.

The reality is that even after a collapse in imports, Spain is still in deficit and has net external debts of 92pc of GDP. Trade equilibrium will be attained only with the economy in depression and only with unemployment at levels that no demcoracy can tolerate.

Mr Schauble thinks Spain has no choice. It must take its medicine. "There is no European country that would waste the smallest thought on giving up the common European currency," he said last week

This is not quite true. The head of the ruling party in Cyprus has openly discussed exit from the euro if Troika rescue terms are unacceptable.

It is also a misjudgement. Every sovereign nation has a choice, and the IMF's mea culpa changes the landscape. The issue is no longer whether Spain should adhere to the Schauble plan, but whether the plan can work at all.

In fairness, the German government has shifted ground. It is letting the European Central Bank engage in stealth mutualisation of EMU debt by ramping up its balance sheet. This makes it easier for Chancellor Angela Merkel to avoid a bruising showdown in the Bundestag.

Yet such a policy falls between two stalls. It is too fitful, hesitant, and cribbed about with conditions to halt the crisis: but is enough to provoke a backlash from the German people as they realise their country is being smuggled into fiscal union without democratic assent.

The Latin bloc and like-minded allies could of course marshal their voting power in the EU Council and the ECB to ram through a reflation policy.

The effect would be to drive Germany and the AAA-periphery out of EMU by pushing domestic inflation in those countries to unbearable levels. You could argue that this process is already underway, though France is not yet feeling enough pain to force the issue.

Besides, to do that you need a Churchillian figure -- or indeed a Juan Pérez Villamil, the hero of the Levantamiento -- to raise the flag of defiance. No such leader has yet appeared.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...rategy-is-an-economic-and-moral-disgrace.html
 
The IMF are the biggest bunch of make-it-up-as-they-go-along cnuts out there. They were the ones pontificating about and urging tight austerity measures. They haven't a fecking clue.
 
At least they can see the writing on the wall unlike Messrs Cameron and Osborne.
 
The reality is nobody knows & whatever you try will be wrong.

You can't do it exclusively one way or the other.

Sooner or later it will all sort itself out & a bunch of know-it-alls will say stuff like, "well, if you'd listened to us", which isn't very helpful.

Having said that, if they'd have let Greece go bust a few years ago, everyone would probably be a lot better off now & €B's would have been saved.

But who really knows, until it's too late, boom times will come again then bust then boom then bust & the cycle will continue.

Nothing much anyone can do about it ultimately.
 
That's fair enough Colin. But if they'd even drawn on the experience of the 1930s they'd have learned not to be so drastic with austerity measures. The warnings were there in black and white. Only when they took advantage of the low interest rates and invested in house building and infrastructure did the UK economy slowly recover. Krugman was correct.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/22/opinion/22krugman.html?ref=opinion&_r=0
 
That's fair enough Colin. But if they'd even drawn on the experience of the 1930s they'd have learned not to be so drastic with austerity measures. The warnings were there in black and white. Only when they took advantage of the low interest rates and invested in house building and infrastructure did the UK economy slowly recover. Krugman was correct.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/22/opinion/22krugman.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

The causes of the depression are very different to the causes of the current crisis. There are many simultaneous issues occurring right now, not only do we have over indebtedness on a private/personal/public level, we also have over indebtedness on a national/governmental level.

The problem with Krugman is that he is attempting to sort out the problem with the exacerbating the problem itself: sovereign debt. Can the UK borrow more? Maybe, but countries like Spain, Italy, Greece clearly show that borrowing can become very expensive, very quickly, and the situation becomes uncontrollable within weeks. Therefore, his solution of a massive stimulus is unlikely to be fruitful without political willpower of all western governments, this won't happen.

The second issue is this: the UK does not need adjust it's policy, we can borrow are low rates, we are in a period of likely slow growth, we are not in a deflationary cycle, unemployment is stable. This is in complete contrast to other countries in Europe with similar size economies and debt.
 
Well the best econimic brains are supposed to be behind the thought process, not a bunch of caf no hopers

Predicting growth of any sort after the first wriong forecast is lunacy

Colin, whats been tried isn't working, hasnt been for a long time so it's not guess work. The EU leaders are pissing about not making decisions because they have to All agree on what to do.

Their biggest worry is that they will all lose their money they loaned to the crap countries of europe so they play the harf line until the 12th hour and then they will probably give these countries a bit more slack, if they dont then there will be no reforms.

A decision about Greece will probably happen after the US election by special request but there cant be much hope for them

They've now been asked to fire 15,000 more civil servants and reduce salaries by half, they simply cant

Its a joke, the EU is a joke, a Peaceful one mind
 
Well the best econimic brains are supposed to be behind the thought process, not a bunch of caf no hopers

Predicting growth of any sort after the first wriong forecast is lunacy

Colin, whats been tried isn't working, hasnt been for a long time so it's not guess work. The EU leaders are pissing about not making decisions because they have to All agree on what to do.

Their biggest worry is that they will all lose their money they loaned to the crap countries of europe so they play the harf line until the 12th hour and then they will probably give these countries a bit more slack, if they dont then there will be no reforms.

A decision about Greece will probably happen after the US election by special request but there cant be much hope for them

They've now been asked to fire 15,000 more civil servants and reduce salaries by half, they simply cant

Its a joke, the EU is a joke, a Peaceful one mind

If we were in Germany's situation, we would do no different. German's do not want their cash to bailout a government, over and over again, a government that has never met it's obligations (Greece). You want to be assured that you will get your money back and that they won't keep on wasting it like they have done.

Second, Germany does not have a debt problem, it's not really their fault and the government has no duty or need to help other more reckless countries out.
 
Germany doesn't have a debt problem, no, but as its manufacturing output falls it will disturb the natives. They are in a position to help the southern euro countries without donating more money and they still refuse, thats not looking after own interest unless your interest is to have most of Europe in your pocket

If the southern eurozone countries were to collapse, Germany would lose equivalent of 25% gdp in one foul swoop

And that IS their fault, i dont throw good money after bad so neither should they. At least 4 countries have said not a penny more to greece, will they still say that when they see their 'Investment' go down the pan? What they've done is the equivalent of backing a horse at 100/1 thinking it a good price when really it should be 500/1
 
SOROS: EURO CRISIS IS A NIGHTMARE


Legendary fund manager George Soros has criticised eurozone leaders for creating a nightmare depression, during an event in New York today.

Soros (who beat the Bank of England on Black Wednesday in September 1992) also warned that Germany is not doing enough to stop the crisis (a familiar theme recently).

Reuters has the quotes:


The euro crisis "is a nightmare" that is pushing the European Union into a "lasting depression," fund manager George Soros said on Monday.

The crisis "is having tremendous impact in the state of affairs, it is pushing the EU into a lasting depression, and it is entirely self-created," Soros, Chairman of Soros Fund Management, said at a luncheon hosted by the National Association for Business Economics.
 
Yeh! feck the Germans! Damn Krauts!

If anyone should be wanting to leave the Euro, it's the Germans. Most of the other countries have done the equivalent of spending all their inheritence and then gone begging to the older brother who actually knows how to look after his money.
 
Yeh! feck the Germans! Damn Krauts!

If anyone should be wanting to leave the Euro, it's the Germans. Most of the other countries have done the equivalent of spending all their inheritence and then gone begging to the older brother who actually knows how to look after his money.

Yeah, Germany hasn't at all benefited from the relatively low value the euro was held to or anything...
 
Germany doesn't have a debt problem, no, but as its manufacturing output falls it will disturb the natives. They are in a position to help the southern euro countries without donating more money and they still refuse, thats not looking after own interest unless your interest is to have most of Europe in your pocket

If the southern eurozone countries were to collapse, Germany would lose equivalent of 25% gdp in one foul swoop

And that IS their fault, i dont throw good money after bad so neither should they. At least 4 countries have said not a penny more to greece, will they still say that when they see their 'Investment' go down the pan? What they've done is the equivalent of backing a horse at 100/1 thinking it a good price when really it should be 500/1

Well yes, it is party their fault for selling goods, cars and stuff to people who couldn't afford it. I think 25% of the GDP is overly dramatic.

So again, what is the solution? That the Germans should keep on giving money to the Greeks, so that they can keep on buying German goods? It's madness.

Should Germany begin to write-off pre-existing debt? This will destroy the balance sheets of many German banks and business and inevitably declare themselves bankrupt. This isn't an option for Germany or europe.

Greece's primary deficit, that is, it's revenue - spending (without interest or repayment) is almost at 0 now. This is a lot better than the UK or USA and much much improved from 5 years ago. The issue now is this: What about the current debt? Greece still can't service this debt? Creditors can't afford to write it off.
 
But who really knows, until it's too late, boom times will come again then bust then boom then bust & the cycle will continue.

Nothing much anyone can do about it ultimately.
Not until we get rid of capitalism.
 
There were, of course, no fluctuations in revenues or costs before the time of capitalism. It was an unprecedented era of continued stable growth, peace and prosperity.
The idea is progress not regression.
 
Yeh! feck the Germans! Damn Krauts!

If anyone should be wanting to leave the Euro, it's the Germans. Most of the other countries have done the equivalent of spending all their inheritence and then gone begging to the older brother who actually knows how to look after his money.

If the Germans left the Euro the value of their currency would rise so quickly it'd destroy their ability to export, they'd be fecked
 
The reality is nobody knows & whatever you try will be wrong.

You can't do it exclusively one way or the other.

Sooner or later it will all sort itself out & a bunch of know-it-alls will say stuff like, "well, if you'd listened to us", which isn't very helpful.

Having said that, if they'd have let Greece go bust a few years ago, everyone would probably be a lot better off now & €B's would have been saved.

But who really knows, until it's too late, boom times will come again then bust then boom then bust & the cycle will continue.

Nothing much anyone can do about it ultimately.

What?

There are too many ideologues making the decisions.

IMF, World Bank can go stuff themselves.
 
Germany has benefited immensely from the Euro - mainly due to exports.

There is a stark contrast between the economies of the northern europe and southern europe. With an influx of cheap debt it was inevitable that it would quickly find its way into a property and consumer spending bubble. These created an illusion of growth - not growth from increases in productivity but growth through cheap money.

The problem with the policies is as there was little desire to stop the good times rolling with cheap debt now there seems to be an irrational reaction to step hard on the breaks to balance their past mistakes.

These southern european countries cannot effect changes via monetary means - their only tools available are fiscal policies ergo huge drastic cuts.
 
Germany has benefited immensely from the Euro - mainly due to exports.

There is a stark contrast between the economies of the northern europe and southern europe. With an influx of cheap debt it was inevitable that it would quickly find its way into a property and consumer spending bubble. These created an illusion of growth - not growth from increases in productivity but growth through cheap money.

The problem with the policies is as there was little desire to stop the good times rolling with cheap debt now there seems to be an irrational reaction to step hard on the breaks to balance their past mistakes.

These southern european countries cannot effect changes via monetary means - their only tools available are fiscal policies ergo huge drastic cuts.

Years ago they'd have devalued their coin, now thats been taken away it has to be internal devaluation

Crazy
 
The problem was cheap (private) debt, the solution is to write it off

You say that as it is as easy as just pushing a button. The knock on effects on the financial system would be colossal.
 
Not bad, factwise.

Somebody trousered a spare billion or two among all that.

Who though and why are they allowed too?

I started a thread about central banks and the concept of money but no one really understands it I think.

It's a crazy system where we are only now seeing the possible consequences.
 
You say that as it is as easy as just pushing a button. The knock on effects on the financial system would be colossal.

And?? The financial system slimmed down would be a much finer result then the bloated mess we're keeping alive today
 
I'm getting depressed. The new budget will be approved. Our middle class, which was already one of the poorest middle classes in Europe, will be annihilated with the highest tax raises in memory. An average 30% raise, but in particular cases much more than that.

Some income brackets (and I'm not talking about higher ones) will have their purchasing power dramatically reduced. As a striking example my mother's liquid wage will be cut down from about 1500 monthly Euro to circa 900. She doesn't know how we're going to pay our bills. I'm in the process of leaving my flat and looking to rent a room so I can help any way I can, but this will be painful. We'll try to sell some assets, but it's unlikely someone will be able to buy them unless we make a terrible deal on our end.

How one can go from relatively comfortable to incapable of paying our debts in just one year or two... And well, at least she's still got her job.

I have zero trust in Portuguese politicians to run this country. It has been a disgrace for the past 15 years and will continue to be so.

Everywhere the climate is depressing. Food-related charities, which were basically for indigents, now have their hands full and out of resources to help so many new families in need.

And then I look at the budget and I don't get it. We have a deficit goal to reach. The government predicts a 1% recession. The IMF predicts it will be closer to 5%. Well, they're likely to be right, no way the economy will decrease only 1% when so many people are getting out of jobs and we're loosing the middle-class driven consumption. So if the recession is indeed 5% then the deficit goal will not be reached, as the later is a percentage of the GDP (not to mention that tax income will end up lower than expected). So more cuts will be needed to get it right. But then the GDP will decrease even more. So more cuts will be needed...

How can this possibly work? I can't work my head around it.

I'm about to explode. I've not been very able at managing my life, and made dubious choices in the past and will pay heavily for them now. Now that I was getting it right, and am two years away of having the career of my dreams, I don't know if it will be possible to remain a full-time student. I'm anxiously scared, and if I had finished my studies already, emigration would be a certainty, despite loving this country. It will probably be my only reasonable option in a few years from now.
 
Everywhere the climate is depressing. Food-related charities, which were basically for indigents, now have their hands full and out of resources to help so many new families in need.
Food banks in the UK have seen an increasing number of clients...

'The Trussell Trust said its food bank network had fed almost 110,000 people since April, compared with a total of 128,697 in the whole of 2011-12.

Its food banks provide at least three days' worth of nutritionally-balanced food for local people in crisis.

The charity expects to feed more than 200,000 people in 2012-13 as food and fuel bills are set to rise this winter'.
 
Greece to get bailout extension, says finance minister
Greece's Finance Minister,

Yiannis Stournaras, says the country has been given more time to hit bailout targets.

Greece had been asking for two more years to meet the spending cuts demanded by international creditors.

Oh but wait......

Mario Draghi also shot down those reports earlier today that Greece has been given another 24-months grace to hit its targets.

The ECB president said the troika's review of the Greek economy was not complete - only then could decisions be taken. He added:

I cannot comment on these rumours.

Hmmmm...

Hold the bunting!


Remarkably, Greece's finance minister appears to have now admitted that Athens doesn't have a deal with the Troika over the aid package after all.

Barely 90 minute after telling the Greek parliament that an agreement had been hammered out (see 13.18), Yannis Stournaras then told MPs that, well, it hasn't. Yet.

Thats clear then

(bbc - guardian)
 
Normal prescription from the EU, cut pensions, wages and pulic sector jobs and give to the wealthy a flat capital gains tax
 
The financial crisis in the past and everyone that will come in the future will revolve around cheap money fuelling "prosperity" before the plug is pulled and prices crash only for the same ones causing this to walk in and hoover up all the depressed assets.