Well it seems to me that Italian club football has changed a lot over the last four years in terms of attacking play and conditioning - this is reflected in the national team now.
Euro 2012 Final - Spain vs Italy
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
I wouldn't say it's been 4 years, even the press in Italy are still trying to comprehend how they've been able to continue playing attacking football at this Euro...It's definitely not something that you see in Serie A on a routine basis - there are exceptions, of course...But the simple truth is that Serie A football is not that entertaining due to a largely defensive nature
Would obviously prefer Spain winning but since the England match I've felt the unstoppable momentum of the Azzurri...It's their final to lose, I feel...It'll take a world class team effort for Spain to win - haven't seen that yet from them in this Euro...The good, of course (Even for the neutral), is that if we do end up witnessing a world class team effort from Spain we're going to be in for one helluva treat in the Final
Finals are where the class players show their quality so while I'm sure De Rossi & Pirlo et al will make their marks, I expect Iniesta to really raise his game as well - could be a difference maker...Should be a great Final and so while I normally root for La Roja, I'd be quite happy to see Prandelli win this as well...It'd be good for football in many ways and would reflect a positive effort rather than the usual negative nonsense we've had to endure (Yes, Holland, I'm looking at you!)
Teams like Udinese and Napoli and even Milan and Juventus look a lot more attacking than what we've seen in the past. Plus Italian teams were regularly outrun by English ones in Europe - that doesn't happen now.
And with Zdeněk Zeman back in Serie A, there'll be even more attacking football in Serie A this season.
Yeah, who doesn't remember the negative football which the likes of Pirlo, Kaka, Seedorf, Inzaghi, Sheva, Nedved, del Piero and Trezeguet produced in the past decade.
The amount of attacking talent doesn't always translate into style. Nearly all of them were on the pitch during the most boring Champions League final ever.
Finals are generally "boring". Most of the time the difference in quality between 2 finalists are minimal so they neutralise each other (especially when both defenses are world class). Add to that a cautious approach in general in a final and it comes as no surprise that you will barely see a Manchester United 4 - Everton 4-esque game in a final. 3 of the last 5 World Cup finals went into extra time. High scoring games = low quality games, in general. I certainly don't associate negative football with Juventus or Milan:
I'd rather see a low scoring game with world class technicians all over the pitch than end-to-end stuff with 2 weak defenses resulting in something like a 5-4 result. Spain 1 - Italy 1 was the most entertaining high quality game of the current Euros for me.
I've been re-watching that match over the last day or so, feel the same - particularly the last 30 min...although Italy's match against Germany was slightly more compelling, for me
Can't recall an International Final in recent memory with the exciting potential this one has
That depends really. Yes, some low scoring finals are that way because it is two top quality sides that manage to cancel each other out, but sometimes it's just two cautious teams who are afraid to go for it, which does result in a boring match.
The World Cup final in 2010 was an example of one team simply trying to cancel out the other by any means possible, which resulted in it not being a very exciting match for neutrals in the end.
I don't agree that a high scoring match can't be of high quality. Yes, it usually means that a defence will not have played very well, but it can also mean that a team have just been superb in attack.
Yup, it was a brilliant game. Best game in the Euros for me. I expect the finals to be similar.
I am really expecting a world class performance from Xavi who wasn't as good as usual, and I can bet that he will be the best Spain's player in the final.
But I would celebrate for Azzurri.
But I would celebrate for Azzurri.
At least come up with a realistic scenario duffer
Spain will win, fairly comfortably.
Unlike Germany they won't change anything and Pirlo's influence will be diminished because Italy won't often have the ball.
Unlike Germany they won't change anything and Pirlo's influence will be diminished because Italy won't often have the ball.
Unlike Germany Spain do need to change something. Italy had only 40% of the ball v Spain in the group stage but would have won if they took their chances.
Spain can step up several gears if they need to. Italy can't.
so Spain were just playing for penalties then?
Spain have many good players. But currently they are not a better team than Italy.
And Spain do not have better players than Balotelli, Pirlo and De Rossi.
I think Italy have the edge.
If Torres scored his sitters Italy would have conceded 3.
Me think you didn't even watch the first group match.Spain had a lot of ball but Pirlo was still influential and delivered a great assist
They don't even have three proper forwards and if they start with Navas, Pedro and Torres it'll end in tears.
Seen no evidence of it in this tournament - they appear to have first and reverse only and spend a lot of time in neutral.
Spain don't really need to change a lot to win tomorrow. If they play their normal game, and play better than they did against Portugal, then they'll probably prevail in the end.
Italy have set the world alight of course, scoring 4 goals until the semi-finals. 1 freekick goal against Croatia and 2 corner goals against Ireland who were already out of the competition. Drawing 3 out of their first 4 games. The most entertaining™ team ever with Balomessi upfront and so on and so forth.
The tears of the Spain doubters tomorrow.
The tears of the Spain doubters tomorrow.
Their matches have been more enjoyable than Spain's despite the fewer goals scored.It surely cannot that difficult to grasp can it ?
Italy have set the world alight of course, scoring 4 goals until the semi-finals. 1 freekick goal against Croatia and 2 corner goals against Ireland who were already out of the competition. Drawing 3 out of their first 4 games. The most entertaining™ team ever with Balomessi upfront and so on and so forth.
The tears of the Spain doubters tomorrow.
People, if you didn't want Spain to lose before, just read this.
apparently it is.
for all the praise of the German team, Italy were a much more enjoyable team to watch.
If Spain go with 2 proper wingers and a striker, then surely they need to move iniesta in the middle alongside xavi and drop one of busquets/ xabi Alonso? Only then will we see Spain play at their best IMO, if they use their best player in his best position. I don't think theyll do that though and I hope they lose, but if they do play with a lineup like that than I can't see anything than a Spain win.
Same for me.If they play with a formation that gets close to the Barca one (with Iniesta playing centrally), I think they'll be too good for Italy.Any other formation or system and Italy might have a chance.
Unlke Portugal, Italy won't be able to press Spain all over the pitch as this will be their third game over the last 7 days. This is likely to be the key to the final, especially if it goes into extra time.
Can't see Pirlo being particularly fresh. He'll fade in the second part of the second half and he won't be the only one from the Italians to do so. Spaniards showed great fitness levels in the extra time vs Portugal.
Can't see Pirlo being particularly fresh. He'll fade in the second part of the second half and he won't be the only one from the Italians to do so. Spaniards showed great fitness levels in the extra time vs Portugal.
Yup, I have no idea why he hasn't tried to copy the barca midfield, one that has been so successful over the years. Yes it's harder without messi of course but the midfield three doesn't have to change. If I was the manager of Spain I'd play Llorente up top flanked by Pedro and navas, but I'm not sure what Llorente has done to del bosque because have hasnt gotten any minutes in the euros. Also I think they should have called up muniain and played him on the wing or even through he middle to be their messi, I have a feeling it would have worked out fantastically.
I'm pretty sure Guardiola would play a 3-4-3 diamond (Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta-Fabregas) against Italy which is the most effective way to deal with a 2 striker system and exploit their narrowness with Pedro and Navas on the wings. I wish del Bosque would do the same. Prandelli's system is outdated for a good reason and works only because no national team manager utilises a 3 man backline.
Every system that works is not outdated.
Same 343 that didn't work against Chelsea?
True and besides a lot of clubs across use the diamond formation.Nothing outdated about it at all.It'll be an interesting tactical battle, will Prandelli use his first formation (three at the back) or the same one against Germany ?
What a fickle comment. I clearly said "against Prandelli's system". What does Chelsea have to do with this? Apart from that it wasn't a 3-4-3 against Chelsea. It was a 3-3-4.
God how I wish those Spanish twats will be taught a lesson. Don't think it will happen though.
Of course it's an outdated system. "Outdated" = "used to be popular in the past and isn't now". And for a good reason. They are playing with 2 central strikers and no wingers. Countering that is pretty easy => 3 man backline. Keeping the numerical advantage at the back, allowing to field another attacking player. Pedro and Navas wouldn't allow the fullbacks to venture forward (which they rarely do anyway in Italy's system). That would leave Balotelli and Cassano isolated upfront against 3 centrebacks (Pique, Ramos, Martinez for example). While Busquets would shadow Montolivo. That would kill all of Italy's attackings sources while at the same time allowing Fabregas (at the top of the diamond), Navas, Pedro and a CF to attack.
The only reason Prandelli's system works is because at international level no one will utilise a 3 man backline and he knows it. Pretty much no national team is familiar with such a system. Except the Spanish (most of all Barcelona) players ...
Löw took out a winger (Müller) to get in another midfielder against Italy's 4 man midfield. Wrong move. He should have taken out a fullback to add another midfielder. Germany unnecessarily had 2 spare men at the back the whole time. Lahm was surplus to requirements.
If it's so easy to play against then why was it ever popular in the past?
Didn't Spain and Italy met in the first group game and it ended 1-1? I didn't watch that match but i read reports that the Italians more than held their own against the world champions and could have even won the game. Almost nobody gave them a chance against the Germans but they won, and remember the statistic that Italy have won tournaments in the year that they have scandals?
fecking right it's easy
You're so good that Del Bosque should have hired as an assistant coach.