Ethan Nwaneri | 17 year old starting for Arsenal in EFL Cup

Must be surreal when he goes back to school on Tuesday. Good moment for him.

I do think it’s too young though, but Rooney was scoring 30 yard screamers at 16
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I presume the difference is that this kid could very easily have been shielded from this exposure that today will bring. It wasn’t necessary or inevitable in the same way as the other examples you mention.
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That's a good point, and one I hadn't considered originally, but while that makes sense to me from an acting perspective (though as the poster was worried about kids not being able to be kids, ending up as a disney kid and the like would be pretty bad) I don't fully get the distinction with regards to Carlsen. He was a young prodigy who competed against those far older than him, why is that different to a sportsman doing the same? It's not uncommon either, Serena Williams was playing professional Tennis at 14, I've heard about golfers on word tours in their early teens, and even in football you have plenty of footballers making their debut at 16.

Although it's just now occurred to me by necessary and inevitable, you're making the point that it's highly unlikely this lad will become anything close to a regular anytime soon, and thus his debut could have been delayed in a way the others couldn't have been.
 
Cascarino said:
That's a good point, and one I hadn't considered originally, but while that makes sense to me from an acting perspective (though as the poster was worried about kids not being able to be kids, ending up as a disney kid and the like would be pretty bad) I don't fully get the distinction with regards to Carlsen. He was a young prodigy who competed against those far older than him, why is that different to a sportsman doing the same? It's not uncommon either, Serena Williams was playing professional Tennis at 14, I've heard about golfers on word tours in their early teens, and even in football you have plenty of footballers making their debut at 16.

Although it's just now occurred to me by necessary and inevitable, you're making the point that it's highly unlikely this lad will become anything close to a regular anytime soon, and thus his debut could have been delayed in a way the others couldn't have been.
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Exactly.

I don’t think I’m quite as annoyed as @HTG is about this but I do agree it was completely unnecessary.
 
Was so young he wasn’t allowed to get changed in the Arsenal changing room according to talk sport. Not sure what this is implying about the Arsenal squad!
 
Fortitude said:
Pele made his debut at 15 years 10 months and 15 days.

It’s the quickening!

Ayo it's hell on earth, whose next or gonna be first
The projects is front lines, and the enemy is one time
I ain't gotta tell you
It's right in front of your eyes
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:drool:
 
Good for him and all that, but I'd be worried about the precendent and the expectation it's going to create for the kid. He's 15 and he's made his first team debut. Now he's going to be wanting and hoping to do that every week, and realistically that's not going to happen anytime soon. How do you cope with that mentally when you're 15? I don't think it was a wise move.
 
Jim etchells said:
Was so young he wasn’t allowed to get changed in the Arsenal changing room according to talk sport. Not sure what this is implying about the Arsenal squad!
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No paedophile or rape jokes before anyone thinks of posting one. Should go without saying really, but have to say it as I know what some of you are like.
 
Arteta did a interview on Talksport where he basically said that he has been made aware of the kids situation (guess that means other clubs looking at him) and somtimes you have to show them that there are chances, he the. Said it’s a huge step for him and hel have to properly take 10 steps back now before he makes the 11th forward or something like that. So yeah played him when comfortable to try get him to stay there.
 
WirralRed said:
Arteta did a interview on Talksport where he basically said that he has been made aware of the kids situation (guess that means other clubs looking at him) and somtimes you have to show them that there are chances, he the. Said it’s a huge step for him and hel have to properly take 10 steps back now before he makes the 11th forward or something like that. So yeah played him when comfortable to try get him to stay there.
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Basically admitted to playing him to convince him to stay, means Squat if he's stuck in the reserves until he's 21 this move is very short sighted if they expect him to stay and stay motivated.

His stats on transfer market says he's only made one Premier League 2 appearance - his sib as clearly only money motivated, but what's that done for the rest of their academy players? Saying they don't value them that much clearly.
 
yumtum said:
Basically admitted to playing him to convince him to stay, means Squat if he's stuck in the reserves until he's 21 this move is very short sighted if they expect him to stay and stay motivated.

His stats on transfer market says he's only made one Premier League 2 appearance - his sib as clearly only money motivated, but what's that done for the rest of their academy players? Saying they don't value them that much clearly.
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I totally agree, I was saying I agree with him. He has been training with the under 18’s not even the first team, seems a bit desperate.
 
WirralRed said:
I totally agree, I was saying I agree with him. He has been training with the under 18’s not even the first team, seems a bit desperate.
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He has trained with the first team. I think they want to get him to feel part of the team and to let him know he's got a future where he'll start for us. I can see him getting minutes in the League Cup and Europa off the bench if he doesn't actually start. Both competition are good for developing the youth in the early rounds
 
Arsenal are in tough spot with this. Does he deserve a start?

If I was the youngster, I wouldn't be impressed by this cuz if you just gave me this to ensure my signature on the contract, no guarantees I'd get play time once I signed the contract. On the other hand if he saw other deserving youngsters get game time, that would be more encouraging long term no?

Having said that, most of these youth contracts are probably money driven.
 
mav_9me said:
Arsenal are in tough spot with this. Does he deserve a start?

If I was the youngster, I wouldn't be impressed by this cuz if you just gave me this to ensure my signature on the contract, no guarantees I'd get play time once I signed the contract. On the other hand if he saw other deserving youngsters get game time, that would be more encouraging long term no?

Having said that, most of these youth contracts are probably money driven.
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It was done purely to make sure if he does leave they'd get a huge chunk of compensation in court.
 
mav_9me said:
Arsenal are in tough spot with this. Does he deserve a start?

If I was the youngster, I wouldn't be impressed by this cuz if you just gave me this to ensure my signature on the contract, no guarantees I'd get play time once I signed the contract. On the other hand if he saw other deserving youngsters get game time, that would be more encouraging long term no?

Having said that, most of these youth contracts are probably money driven.
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To be honest, there's nothing new about fast tracking the most promising talents. I remember a big deal made up here about Dembele being 13 year old and playing the U20's for Celtic. Think he made his first team debut a couple of years later. By that age most folk in the Academy system know the most promising talents. Converting that talent to first team players is a different matter.
 
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I'd say he'll pop up in that players you forgot existed thread in about 10 years having done feck all.

The club shouldn't be bowing down to pressure from a kid, if he doesn't want to stay on their terms at that age, it'll only get worse next time it comes round. Call his bluff and tell him to take it or pack his bags and feck off.
 
Oranges038 said:
I'd say he'll pop up in that players you forgot existed thread in about 10 years having done feck all.

The club shouldn't be bowing down to pressure from a kid, if he doesn't want to stay on their terms at that age, it'll only get worse next time it comes round. Call his bluff and tell him to take it or pack his bags and feck off.
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It‘s not as easy as that due to the money involved, there are lads at Utd and my lads club, whose parents literally have the club by the balls and get whatever they want.
 
Canada's Alphonso Davies came on for his MLS debut with the Whitecaps at age fifteen and five months. And his career has been successful to this point. This kind of thing might be rare, but it happens.
 
As a teacher of 15 year olds, I’m really uncomfortable with clubs playing kids so young! They just don’t have the physical, social and emotional development to handle what will inevitably come with it! Irresponsible in my view!
 
Thiagoal said:
As a teacher of 15 year olds, I’m really uncomfortable with clubs playing kids so young! They just don’t have the physical, social and emotional development to handle what will inevitably come with it! Irresponsible in my view!
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You'll be uncomfortable when you see the news about him signing a contract that sees him make what you earn a year in just two weeks...at 15 years old - mental.
 
Of course making a Premier League debut for a 15 year old means he's highly rated and considered a generational talent, but means nothing unless he's constantly played. Let's see if he's now part of the squad or if its just a one time thing. We've seen 17 year old kids being starters, thats way more powerful that making the debut at 15. Being great at 15 doesnt warrant you'll be a great as a professional.

Notable players that made their debuts young:

Argentina: Aguero and Maradona 15 y.o.
Norway: Odeegard 15 y.o.
Brazil: Pele 15 y.o.
Colombia: Radamel Falcao 13 y.o.
France: Mbappe, Camavinga, Coman, Hazard 16 y.o.
England: Rooney 16 y.o.

But for each of those, there are 20 players who made their debuts really young who never reached special hights.

A bunch of 16 year old debutants who never made it "big" examples:

Maupay
Mbaye Niang
Saint Maximin
Vincent Thill
Kourt Zouma
Alex Song
Pietro Pellegri
Juanmi
Diego Cappel
Muniain
Aurier
Sahin
Aaron Lenon
Reece Oxford
Wilshere
Angel Gomes
James Milner

and the list goes on and on with a lot of names that I dont even recognize.

Whats the difference between the first and the second list? that the ones on the first list didnt only debuted but played regularly in their teams.

Time will tell if Ethan Nwaneri belongs to the first or second list, for once I doubt we'll start seeing him as a regular player.
 
BurgerVan said:
How can you compete with that.
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I hope his parents are not greedy even if his agent turns out to be. Since he is young, he should only go to a team where he is good enough to start, even if it is Division 2 club. No amount of B team practice matches can prepare you as well as the real-world, where adult players (with families to feed) may not get paid a portion of their wages if they don't win.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Of course making a Premier League debut for a 15 year old means he's highly rated and considered a generational talent, but means nothing unless he's constantly played. Let's see if he's now part of the squad or if its just a one time thing. We've seen 17 year old kids being starters, thats way more powerful that making the debut at 15. Being great at 15 doesnt warrant you'll be a great as a professional.

Notable players that made their debuts young:

Argentina: Aguero and Maradona 15 y.o.
Norway: Odeegard 15 y.o.
Brazil: Pele 15 y.o.
Colombia: Radamel Falcao 13 y.o.
France: Mbappe, Camavinga, Coman, Hazard 16 y.o.
England: Rooney 16 y.o.

But for each of those, there are 20 players who made their debuts really young who never reached special hights.

A bunch of 16 year old debutants who never made it "big" examples:

Maupay
Mbaye Niang
Saint Maximin
Vincent Thill
Kourt Zouma
Alex Song
Pietro Pellegri
Juanmi
Diego Cappel
Muniain
Aurier
Sahin
Aaron Lenon
Reece Oxford
Wilshere
Angel Gomes
James Milner

and the list goes on and on with a lot of names that I dont even recognize.

Whats the difference between the first and the second list? that the ones on the first list didnt only debuted but played regularly in their teams.

Time will tell if Ethan Nwaneri belongs to the first or second list, for once I doubt we'll start seeing him as a regular player.
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That second list is full of good players, the vast majority of footballers would be lucky to have similar careers, regardless of the age they debuted.
 
Cascarino said:
That second list is full of good players, the vast majority of footballers would be lucky to have similar careers, regardless of the age they debuted.
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Yes, but the expectation for someone debuting that young is yo be on the first list I think.
 
Beaucoup said:
It‘s not as easy as that due to the money involved, there are lads at Utd and my lads club, whose parents literally have the club by the balls and get whatever they want.
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Clubs shouldn't be letting kids of 15 or their parents hold them to ransom. They are scouting kids at 6/7/8, paying for them to go through school and all that stuff. Giving them every chance to make it, they should be grateful for the opportunity and not acting like selfish spoilt cnuts.

In reality a very small % of them ever make it to have a career as a pro. Clubs have all the power here, but are too afraid of exerting it, in case they miss out on something special, when in maybe 1 in 1000 is a Harry Kane.
 
Oranges038 said:
Clubs shouldn't be letting kids of 15 or their parents hold them to ransom. They are scouting kids at 6/7/8, paying for them to go through school and all that stuff. Giving them every chance to make it, they should be grateful for the opportunity and not acting like selfish spoilt cnuts.

In reality a very small % of them ever make it to have a career as a pro. Clubs have all the power here, but are too afraid of exerting it, in case they miss out on something special, when in maybe 1 in 1000 is a Harry Kane.
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Easy to say but the reality is just different. The very very best players even at 16 don't always make it but they have a pretty good chance of becoming extremely valuable properties, more and more clubs are competing for them now, and the kids and their parents know their worth. Nwaneri likely has a bunch of other big clubs telling him and his parents what they're willing to offer the day he turns 17 (when he can sign professional terms) and potentially also medium sized clubs telling him that they'll immediately put him into the first team if he switches (this is how Arsenal lost Yunus Musah to Valencia, who was a similar talent, at 16-years-old).

You can make real money in your first professional contract if you are a big enough prospect and you play your cards right. Raheem Sterling signed a 30k per week deal at 17 and that was 10 years ago.

Clubs simply don't have all the power in this situation.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Of course making a Premier League debut for a 15 year old means he's highly rated and considered a generational talent, but means nothing unless he's constantly played. Let's see if he's now part of the squad or if its just a one time thing. We've seen 17 year old kids being starters, thats way more powerful that making the debut at 15. Being great at 15 doesnt warrant you'll be a great as a professional.

Notable players that made their debuts young:

Argentina: Aguero and Maradona 15 y.o.
Norway: Odeegard 15 y.o.
Brazil: Pele 15 y.o.
Colombia: Radamel Falcao 13 y.o.
France: Mbappe, Camavinga, Coman, Hazard 16 y.o.
England: Rooney 16 y.o.

But for each of those, there are 20 players who made their debuts really young who never reached special hights.

A bunch of 16 year old debutants who never made it "big" examples:

Maupay
Mbaye Niang
Saint Maximin
Vincent Thill
Kourt Zouma
Alex Song
Pietro Pellegri
Juanmi
Diego Cappel
Muniain
Aurier
Sahin
Aaron Lenon
Reece Oxford
Wilshere
Angel Gomes
James Milner

and the list goes on and on with a lot of names that I dont even recognize.

Whats the difference between the first and the second list? that the ones on the first list didnt only debuted but played regularly in their teams.

Time will tell if Ethan Nwaneri belongs to the first or second list, for once I doubt we'll start seeing him as a regular player.
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Wow Nuri Sahin. Now theres a name I had forgotten....
 
Kid should be on his PS5 playing Fortnite. What is wrong with society.
 
It's not that deep really, reiss nelson and smith-rowe being injured, arsenal leading 3-0, it was a freak opportunity to beat a record and Arteta took it.
My guess is that we aren't going to see him back with the first team for a few years. Patino, who is supposed to be the next big thing, has been very carefully introduced to the first team and is out on loan now.
 
He's what 6 months younger than Harvey Elliot was when he made his debut

Moukoku made his debut at 16 years and one days... dortmund would have played him earlier if the rules had allowed it

So it's young... its out of the ordinary but not that unusual

I mean it's not quite Adam Johnson levels of if your good enough your old enough is it
 
Why is even a topic really, a good young player got a chance and made history - cool, now let him develop?

A 14 year old talent made history in Estonian League this season, by making his first team debut and he probably get's more game time as the teams have solid points differences and there ain't much to play for the top 2 teams.

I remember myself at 14/15 - being like 177-180 cm tall and with close to 80+ kg was big enough to take down most smaller men.
 
Surely any decent player in their academy is now not going to sign a contract. Why sign and not play, when you get rewarded for not signing?
 
Thiagoal said:
As a teacher of 15 year olds, I’m really uncomfortable with clubs playing kids so young! They just don’t have the physical, social and emotional development to handle what will inevitably come with it! Irresponsible in my view!
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Please explain what you think the negative effects could be.
 
Beaucoup said:
It‘s not as easy as that due to the money involved, there are lads at Utd and my lads club, whose parents literally have the club by the balls and get whatever they want.
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Maybe but you hope he doesn't, he's 15, wish him the very best, even if i do think it is to young, all media highlighting it, he going to get a lot of action of field now too, needs a strong person guiding him
 
(...) said:
It's not that deep really, reiss nelson and smith-rowe being injured, arsenal leading 3-0, it was a freak opportunity to beat a record and Arteta took it.
My guess is that we aren't going to see him back with the first team for a few years. Patino, who is supposed to be the next big thing, has been very carefully introduced to the first team and is out on loan now.
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From the sounds of it that’s all there was to it, especially considering how careful Arsenal have been with Patino who has been the crown jewel of their academy for a couple of years now.
 
Thiagoal said:
As a teacher of 15 year olds, I’m really uncomfortable with clubs playing kids so young! They just don’t have the physical, social and emotional development to handle what will inevitably come with it! Irresponsible in my view!
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Teacher of what?
 
(...) said:
It's not that deep really, reiss nelson and smith-rowe being injured, arsenal leading 3-0, it was a freak opportunity to beat a record and Arteta took it.
My guess is that we aren't going to see him back with the first team for a few years. Patino, who is supposed to be the next big thing, has been very carefully introduced to the first team and is out on loan now.
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Yep, I don't get those who are slamming an 88th minute sub for an academy player in such unlikely circumstances.

Odegaard -> Smith-Rowe -> Vieira -> Nelson -> Patino -> Nwaneri

He's our sixth choice at AM and everyone else is injured or on loan. I thought the whole point of 7 subs is to give academy players a taste of first team football to aid their transition?
 
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