I think we would have done that if Casemiro were available. ETH probably doesn't want to start Fred and McT together.
Eriksen is too lightweight to play CM
- Thread starter VP89
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What baffles me about this thread is how people can watch garbage midfield performances like that tonight and for literally the entire of about the last 3 seasons before this one, and, somehow, come to the conclusion that Eriksen is the one midfielder we have who can't play in midfield.
If he's in there in place of Fred or Sabitzer tonight we control the game. Either that or he's picking out dangerous passes to our forwards every 3 minutes until Leeds realise he's picking them to pieces and drop off..possibly once they're already 2 goals down.
We've played without Casemiro this season and been able to get away with it because Eriksen is a very good midfielder who can play on the half turn and control a game/provide direct service to the forwards. Without both what we have is headless chickens running about reducing our forward line to either providing their own service or spectating, and therefore allowing the opposition to press us at will.
It seems clear as day to me. I mean 15 seconds into that game we're already under pressure because our defenders don't have a midfield to give the ball to. We played less good balls to our forwards in 90 minutes than eriksen does on his own in about 8. And basically all of the good balls we did play to our forwards, were from our forwards.
If he's in there in place of Fred or Sabitzer tonight we control the game. Either that or he's picking out dangerous passes to our forwards every 3 minutes until Leeds realise he's picking them to pieces and drop off..possibly once they're already 2 goals down.
We've played without Casemiro this season and been able to get away with it because Eriksen is a very good midfielder who can play on the half turn and control a game/provide direct service to the forwards. Without both what we have is headless chickens running about reducing our forward line to either providing their own service or spectating, and therefore allowing the opposition to press us at will.
It seems clear as day to me. I mean 15 seconds into that game we're already under pressure because our defenders don't have a midfield to give the ball to. We played less good balls to our forwards in 90 minutes than eriksen does on his own in about 8. And basically all of the good balls we did play to our forwards, were from our forwards.
Said it before but of all the things ETH has done to improve Utd this season the absolute biggest most important one is signing Eriksen and Casemiro. Having an actual strong midfield that can pass the ball and control the game was fecking massive and it's why we've looked a proper team again.
Casemiro rightfully gets a ton of praise but Eriksen seems to get ignored or he has his contributions waved away for some reason but he's been crucial to our good form this year. He's a big , big miss and when we're without both of them we look like the Utd of old.
The bad Utd of old. fecking Andy Carroll, the useless donkey.
I suspect Eriksen himself would have looked poor out there without Casemiro. Eriksen is a miss, but Casemiro is the bigger miss. Without him, Fred, who has been decent this season has reverted to type
Absolutely. We can do without Eriksen/Sabitzer and survive with Fred. Casemiro is the foundation of our midfield.
Boy do we miss him.
Eriksen has played multiple times without Casemiro this season and looked absolutely fine, as well as managing to be one of the standout midfielders in the league playing for Brentford, who ik guessing dont have anyone as good as Casemiro. Eriksen is just a very good midfielder in his own right.
I mean what is this even based on?
Fred looks decent next to Casemiro because Casemiro can control a game and play forward passes. Something Eriksen can also do. Fred, Mctominay and (based on tonight) Sabitzer, can't.
Yeah Casa missing against Arsenal & Leeds has cost us HUGELY. We simply have to cope better in next two but tonight was concerning
I think that's harsh on Sabitzer. Might look different next to Eriksen. He's definitely not a genius level passer or anything, but he runs, wins tackles, can pass with his left, I think they'd be alright together.
It might be harsh but we signed him after Eriksen got injured, so it isn't really much use if he needs to be next to someone like Eriksen to be effective. We need someone who can be effective when Eriksen and Casemiro aren't there, even if not as good as either, so that games against average teams like Leeds don't descend into uncontrolled chaos
I highly doubt it. A player being comfortable in possession is obviously good, but with the aggressiveness of Leeds today (especially in 1st half), one player good on the ball doesn't help you, you need more. Think, Eriksen would have struggled today against Adams and McKenny. Plus they boxed in Sabitzer for almost 70 minutes, not sure how this wouldn't have happened with Eriksen.
I don't think Eriksen changes this game much. We'd look better in possession, but still completely open during defensive transitions. Eriksen helps us to create chances. We already created enough to win the game. Eriksen has had his own issues being pressed and getting pushed off the ball.
I think he would because these games are the type of games screaming out for one of his passes that cuts them open. He's a specialist of finding a good pass in those scenarios.
Based on the fact that I've not seen Eriksen comfortably control a game for us without Casemiro. What's your Eriksen assertion based on?
I came to this thread to write the very same thing. Eriksen is not a man for that game. Very likely one or two right passes wrongly executed by Fred would go through if Eriksen made them, but I really don't think he would have high impact. At least not defensively and this is how we lost points.
You cannot take Casemiro and Eriksen out of our midfield and still expect us to dominate. That was quite an eyeopener yesterday.
Hugely disagree with this. Fred lost possession 24 times and had a pass percentage completion of 67%. Our biggest problem defensively were turnovers, conceding the ball repeatedly and getting counter attacked on. If we had Eriksen and or Casemiro playing we win that game about 9-1. Leeds for all their passion and pressing were their usual mess at the back for the most part hence why we still managed to create plenty of big opportunities. Eriksen can pass through a press, he’s not Fred who just panics and gives the ball to the opposition. That might have been a record for us at old Trafford in terms of turnovers conceded. That simply does not happen with Eriksen playing.
Our front three also had pretty poor service from the midfield so they ended up having to create their own openings or relying on Leeds mistakes. Fred and Sabitzer weren’t playing passes through the lines, again Eriksen excels in this area.
I actually thought that game provided the most comprehensive proof of how important Casemiro and Eriksen are. That was the first time in a while I was watching our midfield and completely enraged by what I was seeing.
I don't disagree with that statement, but we were down from minute one and we were forcing things (Fred passes). I do agree Eriksen would've done better than him by quite some margin, but he also is quite weak under pressure and Leeds were very aggressive yesterday.
In the end Eriksen doesn't prevent us from losing two goals (what was the real issue yesterday). I felt like we created enough to win it.
Based on the fact that I've not seen Eriksen comfortably control a game for us without Casemiro. What's your Eriksen assertion based on?
I mean I've already answered that in the post you've quoted.
This place is bonkers. How on earth does anyone watch our midfield over the past few seasons and come to the conclusion Eriksen is somehow a problem
If you want an example of players who can't control a game from midfield watch last night back and try to spot how many effective forward passes Fred and Sabitzer manage to play, and how often they manage to break up a Leeds attack or maintain a press effectively.
I mean I've already answered that in the post you've quoted.
This place is bonkers. How on earth does anyone watch our midfield over the past few seasons and come to the conclusion Eriksen is somehow a problem
If you want an example of players who can't control a game from midfield watch last night back and try to spot how many effective forward passes Fred and Sabitzer manage to play, and how often they manage to break up a Leeds attack or maintain a press effectively.
You havent learned RedCafe. He’s used as the scapegoat when things go south, and the hero when things are great. A catalyst of everything really.
I never cease to be amazed by how detached some people on here are with what actually happens on the pitch. I mean I get it's all subjective but coning to the conclusion the first actual very good and reliable midfielder we've signed in years, causes a problem for our midfield, is more than a little bit out there.
I mean I wouldn't argue that Casemiro is better, but even with Casemiro were going to miss Eriksen quite a lot. Apart from anything else it's completely obvious how our performance level drops when eriksen starts to get tired or isn't on the pitch
“Eriksen isnt the answer long term” is also a classic complaint. Scholes wasnt neither at age 35 but he was still great
Not sure I agree with this. Eriksen is our second best midfielder by some distance but we only started controlling games when Casemiro started playing regularly. Before that we'd have a good opening 20mins or so and spend most of the second half on the back foot.
The issue with Eriksen which I think is fairly obvious at this point is he's great in games where we have the majority of possession. In games where teams decide to take the game to us, he can get exposed very badly.
The title of the OP is only half right but there absolutely are times where he's too lightweight.
I didn't say he is a problemI mean I've already answered that in the post you've quoted.
This place is bonkers. How on earth does anyone watch our midfield over the past few seasons and come to the conclusion Eriksen is somehow a problem
If you want an example of players who can't control a game from midfield watch last night back and try to spot how many effective forward passes Fred and Sabitzer manage to play, and how often they manage to break up a Leeds attack or maintain a press effectively.
Simple as this.
I don't know why things have to be so polar. I only mentioned that even Eriksen himself would have struggled without Casemiro in yesterday's game. He's the anchor that gives us control in the midfield.
Yeah take both out we get decimated
I don't think it's as much that he'd struggle without Casemiro as that whoever played instead of Casemiro would. Partly because Casemiro is one of those rare players you just can't replace, and partly because our other midfielders just aren't that good...or have just arrived on loan from barely playing in a completely different league.
I don't think that means Eriksen is "too lightweight" to play in midfield as this thread literally suggests. I mean that just quite clearly isn't true as we've had a very good midfield all season and win nearly all our games, and apart from against City and Arsenal, look like the better team in the ones we don't. What people don't seem to notice with Eriksen is he does the same job Fred/Mctominay do, he just also knows how to play a forward pass and as a result not be caught ahead of the play every time we lose the ball.
The problem is more, as we're now finding out, as soon as Eriksen needs a rest or is taken off, we are back to having half a midfield and ending up with the opposition dictating the game, because what Fred/Mctominay tend to do is come forwards with the ball and then go sideways, and then end up behind the play as soon as we lose it. Either that or they'll just give it straight back to the opposition.
As good as Casemiro is, Eriksen is much better at finding space, playing on the turn and getting the team on the front foot by bringing our forwards into the game. Casemiro can do this because he's juat an all round excellent midfielder, but we are going to miss Eriksen a lot more than I think a lot of people realise, which again doesn't really tally up with the idea he can't play in midfield.
I mean I thought our midfield last night was a disaster. No service to the forwards at all, no ability to press or control the opposition because to do that properly you have to be able to receive the ball and pass it ahead of yourself so you are actually in a position to press. No anything really other than a lot of frantic running around. Back to how it has been for years except now I'm used to us having a pretty good pair of midfielders and, well, actually tactics, I found it quite astounding how much of a mess it was.
To be honest, apart from Casemiro's obvious world class quality, as I stated in another thread, I think the other main reason we struggle without him is we just don't have another DM / deep lying midfielder. Even if we had a poorer, more agricultural version that knows the position, we won't look as chaotic
He's a brilliant #10
He can cover all midfield/winger positions when players are injured, but it's as #10 he shines with assists.
If he was a "squad player" I'd expect us to be top of the league since our first team would have to be pretty fecking mint.
We're missing him badly, especially without Casemiro. Crying out again today for someone in midfield who could get on the half turn and play through the opposition. The constant passing between our defenders and midfield before lumping it up hopefully to no one was painful.
We're missing him badly, especially without Casemiro. Crying out again today for someone in midfield who could get on the half turn and play through the opposition. The constant passing between our defenders and midfield before lumping it up hopefully to no one was painful.
Totally agree with @noodlehair here
Some of the opinions on the Caf these days are very difficult to understand.
Some of the opinions on the Caf these days are very difficult to understand.
Feck Carroll.
I wonder whether people look down on him because he was a free transfer? It’s like people judge players on how they are expected to (or fail to) perform in relation to their fee, rather than in games.
It's the same people/thinking who rate Maguire because he cost 80m and managers picked him for United (and that idiot still does for England).
Some people find thinking for themselves challenging. If you want to see how much United value a player, look at their wage and even that is not a proper indicator.
Looking for a clapping or thumbs up emoji. The last sentence could be applied to so many critical posts.
He’s such a big loss as he has the touch, intelligence and weight of pass to progress the move rather than panicking like the rest. It’s true that he did start struggling after the 45 minute mark but he’s still so much better at playmaking than the others
I love Eriksen. But you have to see what the combination of Casemiro and Sabitzer does before we decide Eriksen is our best CM. Even if Eriksen is clearly our controller, I still feel we can improve on him such that he is part of the rotation rather than a must have if we want a title charge.
Casemiro/ Sabitzer vs the top 6 especially away from home and Casemiro/ Eriksen vs the test with Sabitzer subbing in for Eriksen the 70th minute.
So annoying we can't call on his creativity in those low block games at home or unlocking the door on the road until April
A midfield of an injured Erikson on his own would probably still be more useful than 3 Sabitzers and a Mctominay, but at least now we're not too lightweight, or something.