As opposed to this shit show, give me ten pragmatic years.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
So far I am doing well, I am with you.
Correct, Still with you.
OK I am with you and understood, how about you understand me now? How comes a manager is allowed control of transfers in and not out? Because he wanted to sell Maguire?
Okay, firstly, DDG was on 375k a week, Onana is on 120k a week. If we gave DDG a 3 year contract it would cost us £58m over 3 years.
Onana was £43m and his wages are £18m for the 3 years - the difference is £3m
Okay. can you explain to me what Bayern sacrificed because I dont know this.
Now, I have read it slowly and answered you so how about you do the same with me? Instead of ignoring it answer my queries
You said DDG got Golden glove so he is good.. do you think Onana is better than Allison? Because he had more clean sheets?
Now this one I want you to answer in particular instead of reading to respond because I have read and listened to you.
It is reported we have 3 main transfers for us this season, then like you say its the adult world and cant over indulge.
So we sign a ST, RW and LB and our budget goes.
We start next season with Lindelof and Lisandro as our CB pairing with Maguire backup? Are you honestly suggesting going into a season with 3 senior CB's? Really? Even if we overindulged you have a RB backup over a CB.
We need a minimum of 2 CB's this summer, here you are advocating us not to sign a CB.
Ten Hag had/has control of players out. That's why we tried to sell Maguire and McTominay but negotiations broke down with whoever we were selling them to. He wanted them gone. Your point here makes no sense.
Secondly, De Gea's contract renewal was gonna be on wages closer to what Onana is on than what his previous contract would have been. So it's disingenuous to use the 375k wage in your calculations. You're being a bad actor there in trying to win a point, using incorrect/outdated info. Also, Bayern's transfer of Kane meant that they couldn't get all the transfers done that Tuchel wanted. He has no control of transfers at Bayern though so he couldn't stop the transfer of Kane anyway like ETH could with Antony.
I don't know why you keep making ridiculous or false strawman arguments to express your points. Did I say or allude to him thinking it cheap and waiting? It's not even inferred.
He made the decision as a grown man in a senior role not to get the club to explore alternatives because Anthony was taking so long. That's not just on the club it's on him as well. This hand a list in and wait isn't how any organisation works.
Of course the club does it's due diligence but ultimately he had a veto he didn't use. It doesn't swerve criticism against him, he still made various decisions that ended up with us overpaying or getting in players for a lot of money where money would be better spent elsewhere.
Now if he had told the club he didn't want to be involved in signings he'd be absolved of all sin but it's the opposite.
Have you got proof of this?
So Ten Hag over negotiated incomings or more but couldnt sell Maguire and Mcrominay?
So are you saying Tuchel didnt want Kane? He got Kim and Sacha Boey.
Okay, I am using incorrect information, can you show me any report or evidence suggesting we offered him a lower fee. Its like Varane, he didnt want a lower wage.
I have been away since the cup win. I saw Bayern sorted their situation out. Mourinho got a new job as well.
What’s the doorstopper? Tuchel is waiting.
What’s the doorstopper? Tuchel is waiting.
Well, either they are just undecided , or they are decided on letting him go and undecided about his replacement.
I think it's the former. I honestly think they're not sure what to do.
Any idea when ETH will be back from his holidays? Maybe the club will only announce the decision one way or another when he is back.
We all know he was going to be sacked after the final all they’re showing is incompetence at this stage. It’s turning into a farce.
First real hurdle and they can’t get a decision together
First real hurdle and they can’t get a decision together
Nobody thinks that.
The three main signings are before sales right? So we get a CB, DM and Striker first and if we sell say Greenwood and Sancho we get another RW, if we sell McT we get a LB and if someone comes in for Maguire then maybe we can start thinking about selling him and AWB. Pretty simple really.
The point here is don't sell or release a player you are going to exhaust the budget replacing. Onana hasn't moved the needle as far as performances and results are concerned, he had also match costing errors but I am fine with him for the time being but I don't agree with the thought process that led to his signing as DDG had agreed a new contract on reduced terms and spending a fee on his replacement came at an opportunity cost that hurt us more.
It’s pretty poor from INEOS to keep ETH hanging like this. If this was the glazers they’d be getting a lot of stick for it. We’re nearly a week after the final and nothings been said or done. If we’re not sacking him then make a statement and say this is what we’re going to do etc. but to leave a guy without a clue of what’s going on with his future is poor in my opinion.
Of course targets will be different if ETH stays as he’s going to have very specific needs and demands for his acquisitions, and it’s the club’s job to support him to get those players in. Another manager may want different players, or different types of players if he doesn’t go for specific targets.
We can’t keep him and then tell him ‘we are getting the players we want and you have to integrate them into the team’, that would never work.
Agree
Said before, even if we decide to keep him then he’s going to know that there is a lot of doubt about him from above
The only way the delay over a decision will make a bit of sense is if Ten Hag is sacked and immediately replaced. At least that’ll show they were getting things done behind the scenes. Otherwise I’m not sure what is going on
Are we certain that we are keeping ETH hanging? Isn't a far more likely solution they already know what is going to happen and we are just waiting for the right time?
We don't have to say everything to the press in advance. The club might know exactly what is happening.
We don't have to say everything to the press in advance. The club might know exactly what is happening.
Ten Hag’s veto power over transfer dealings has been covered extensively in the media. To assume that acquisitions and transactions, negotiations, scouting all operate in a silo with no interaction with first team coaches is absurd. Ten Hag and the football operations team were handed a budget. Ten Hag was aware the 80m spent on Antony affected his ability to add another CB or an LB.
Veto power is veto power. He can say no or yes to any proposed transfer dealing. He doesn’t deserve all the blame for these transfers, but he deserves some of the blame.
I don’t think we had a crack scouting team over the last 12 years, but we’ve had good buys as well. Are we worse than Brighton? Yes. Are we better than Everton? Yes.
Hopefully INEOS will build a world class scouting team and academy.
Agree with this.
I think he should be sacked, but if they choose to continue with him then this uncertainty will surely undermine his authority next season.
I'm sure that's the long term plan, but the new system won't be in place this summer - the key personnel aren't in post yet.
It will be next summer before we can begin judge how well it's working.
It was literally reported by a credible source that De Gea was agreeing on a lower wage and then the club reneged.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/4643729/2023/06/27/david-de-gea-manchester-united-contract-offer/
Also, ETH wouldn't be the one doing the negotiating but as he had a veto he would obviously be aware of what was up. He's not an idiot. Your point regarding McTominay and Maguire doesn't make sense BTW. You can't force players to leave. Much easier to bring in players.
I have no clue whether Tuchel wanted Kane or not, I just know he wasn't happy that he didn't get all the players he wanted and signing Kane would have impacted that.
So it's EtH job now to stop the club from overspending and control the finances and budget
okThe right times right now. We don’t wanna leave it to late where most of our squad are playing in the euros and could be distracted by the news. It’s better everyone knows what’s going on asap and i would imagine it would have been done before the 1st june. Then we can’t start preparing for the window with either ETH or a new manager.
We don't know this at all. Not as a fact. Two people said it and it was rinse and repeated by every other paper.
The longer this drags on, the more likely it is that ETH will stay.
True. United don't have to give a running commentary on anything. They don't have to respond to media speculation as that would set a precedent. They can complete the review and say nothing to the media.
They need to sack him ASAP, the new manager will need time to identify his transfer targets and with the Euros this summer there is even less time.
This
It actually baffles me people think there is going to be some sort of press release with SJR saying "yeah we actually have decided to keep EtH"
I'm not sure what planet people are on.
If he stays, nothing will be said. It will be business as usual. If they did plan to sack him or not we will never know.
Why would the timing be a problem? The FA cup final was almost a week ago.
Another aspect to consider is that ETH’s contract might be in the process of restructuring due to new structure above him, and hasn’t been finished or agreed upon. Would make sense if his primary role is that of a coach. And at the same time, negotiating terms with Tuchel for example.
He already has a contract though. It would make sense if his contract was up end of June or something, but its next year.
Why?
Still nothing on this from the club and/or INEOS, I think we all know he is gone at this point (apparently Benni McCarthy's agent pretty much confirmed it) so why the long delay in announcing it, this whole saga is getting more and more ridiculous by the day.
I understand that, but if players can get new contracts a year or two before theirs expires, why not for managers too since it’s expected he will have a reduced role (as a head coach) and not have the same power to dictate things like transfers for example?
Oh yeah I see what you mean. Not his current deal but a new contract for another three years or something with new terms? Maybe.
Options are he agrees or;
He doesn't sign in which case they are deciding sack and pay off or run down his current deal?
To me, they've either decided to sack him and want this post-FA Cup support to die down or they're sticking to their "its not the coaches fault" line and they're keeping him. I very much doubt there's this investigation like the media are banging on about.
Is there any reason to delay sacking him for financial reasons until July?
Pretty much but I doubt it would be anything like a 3 year extension.
Nonsensical post, how do you go to such extremes. There is no way Manchester United would spend a fee that busts the budget and not inform the manager of the developments and it's implications on subsequent moves. That would be Woodwardsque but ETH wasn't dealing with Woodward and Jose bemoans the support ETH got because he knows he didn't have it and it could have ended differently otherwise.So it's EtH job now to stop the club from overspending and control the finances and budget
100% it is like that. The most plausible scenario is that they have decided to sack him, probably a while ago as would be reasonably expected, and are waiting for a more tactful point in time for the announcement than right after a Cup win that was a genuinely enjoyable moment for the team, the manager, and us fans.
Nope, but as a manager with a final say on transfers it is certainly part of his job to keep in mind that spending 100m€ on Anthony, 60m€ on Mount and 75m€ on Hojlund will come at the detriment of other targets. He was involved in the transfers, he is not blameless in the transfers. Easy as that.So it's EtH job now to stop the club from overspending and control the finances and budget
What would the thinking behind delaying that announcement be?