I mean currently there is no Permeant CEO or DOF at the club so who is making the decision?
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
As if the league and CL campaign wasn't bad enough, the worst thing for me is just how many people seem to like the guy on a personal level. Like I know character doesn't equal ability obviously but jesus christ, the disastrous season could be softened a tiny bit if we had our very own lovable cnut like simeone or conte or just someone with a bit of.. something, anything?
I can't even stand to look at the bloke, every time the camera pans to him on the touch line he's just got the same constant gormless look on his face. Genuinely looks like a real life version of Terrance and Phillip. Gotta be the most uninspiring guy in the world. And that's before you even get into his personality or the way he talks. Has about as much charisma as my little toe, just completely empty. Just feel no connection to him at all which is sad really. Uh, this is clear, heh
I can't even stand to look at the bloke, every time the camera pans to him on the touch line he's just got the same constant gormless look on his face. Genuinely looks like a real life version of Terrance and Phillip. Gotta be the most uninspiring guy in the world. And that's before you even get into his personality or the way he talks. Has about as much charisma as my little toe, just completely empty. Just feel no connection to him at all which is sad really. Uh, this is clear, heh
I would be happy if Tuchel got appointed as know he is very much a 2/3 seasons manager. Think we could be a more attractive proposition to an Alonso/Nagelsmann by then
He went hard on Ole as well. Let's not forget that Phelan played and coached at a time when United had standards. Back then 1 game wasn't enough to justify a disastrous campaign were United ended last behind in the CL group (behind Copenhagen and Galatasaaray) and 8th on a negative goal difference.
He isn't delivering a new possession based playing style though. It's the exact opposite - we have never had lower possession than we've had under ETH. Even last season when things went a lot better we only narrowly had more possession than the previous Ole/Rangnick disaster season, and comfortably lower possession than any other season. That's despite having Martinez in defence, Shaw fit almost all season, and Casemiro and Eriksen (when they were both still fairly good for most of the season) in midfield. Then this season it was easily the lowest possession we've ever had.
The playstyle he is implementing is arguably the main reason people think he should be sacked, even moreso than the results. It's basically the opposite of what we wanted to move towards. We wanted more possession, more ability to control the tempo of the match, more interplay and build-up between players to create opportunities for the attackers. We didn't just get none of those, we've actively gone backwards in all of them. On top of that, he's actively set us up to be arguably the most open team in modern PL history, with opposition cutting through us virtually at will.
The players we've got obviously means we're not going to be competing for the title. Nobody is expecting that (well, I'm sure 'some' are, but nobody being realistic). But we should be seeing things being implemented that sets us up for the future as we get those better players to fit into the system. We haven't. There is a chance ETH manages to turn things around if given more time, but it won't be by continuing with what he's done this season. Which means he has completely sacrificed this entire season for no reason, at least until the final four games of the season when he stopped being so stubborn.
Shh, you're supposed to say that he's a bitter know nothing who can't coach...
Obviously knows little about what the expectations are supposed to be at this club
Existential crisis?
Came in to say exactly this. Nothing's changed.
My hunch is ineos already made an offer, and just waiting for Klopp to make it official on leaving pool.
That old flame is still burning.
That old flame is still burning.
How do you know nothings changed?
Nobody has any idea what's going on. Granted, that could mean good or bad, but saying "nothings changed" at this stage is ludicrous.
I think it's the complete opposite. If he was to stay I would've been known by now. I think Ineos are waiting for the emotions to cool down a bit and that's it.
No way one game will influence their decision. They are business people, not fans that only remember last game of football.
If he's getting sacked, what difference does it make him being sacked now or in a couple of weeks?
If they want to, or are considering sacking him then they'll already be sounding out replacements and will pull the trigger when ready. Or would it be better they sack him now without any replacement identified and leave us in complete limbo for weeks/months on end?
If the new regime has any competence they'd be patient and take on board the thoughts of the new/incoming football people they've brought in before handing them a manager they might not want. They might not know who they want at all yet. They might want to keep Ten Hag if they think he'll work in their new setup.
If thats the case then don't feck around wasting time and money hiring managers/coaches that might not be wanted within a few months.
People have been clamouring for a modern football structure for years, but aren't willing to allow it to be implemented unless it delivers immediate success.
Choices are -
1 - Find a miracle maker we can give full control to who will paper over the cracks like a later years SAF and win titles consistently until they leave. Then end up in the same situation we've been in for the last decade once they leave.
2 - Stop focusing on the manager and start to build a sustainable structure that guarantees continued success regardless of who is in charge. Then you can chop and change managers at will without any major drop off. Can take bigger risks on younger, more innovative managers without fearing that if they don't work out we fave the abyss.
Option 1 works out once in a generation. So we keep rolling the dice for decades. The only thing it satisfies is supporters want of blood lust for our failings and the short term high of a shiny new manager to get the temporary warm feeling inside that it was all the previous guys fault.
Option 2 requires a bit of patience and experimentation. Its the right way to go long term. But some people just do not have the ability to be patient. If it's not working immediately with minimal effort required, throw it in the bin and get a new one.
If they want to, or are considering sacking him then they'll already be sounding out replacements and will pull the trigger when ready. Or would it be better they sack him now without any replacement identified and leave us in complete limbo for weeks/months on end?
If the new regime has any competence they'd be patient and take on board the thoughts of the new/incoming football people they've brought in before handing them a manager they might not want. They might not know who they want at all yet. They might want to keep Ten Hag if they think he'll work in their new setup.
If thats the case then don't feck around wasting time and money hiring managers/coaches that might not be wanted within a few months.
People have been clamouring for a modern football structure for years, but aren't willing to allow it to be implemented unless it delivers immediate success.
Choices are -
1 - Find a miracle maker we can give full control to who will paper over the cracks like a later years SAF and win titles consistently until they leave. Then end up in the same situation we've been in for the last decade once they leave.
2 - Stop focusing on the manager and start to build a sustainable structure that guarantees continued success regardless of who is in charge. Then you can chop and change managers at will without any major drop off. Can take bigger risks on younger, more innovative managers without fearing that if they don't work out we fave the abyss.
Option 1 works out once in a generation. So we keep rolling the dice for decades. The only thing it satisfies is supporters want of blood lust for our failings and the short term high of a shiny new manager to get the temporary warm feeling inside that it was all the previous guys fault.
Option 2 requires a bit of patience and experimentation. Its the right way to go long term. But some people just do not have the ability to be patient. If it's not working immediately with minimal effort required, throw it in the bin and get a new one.
No club speculates on their manager's future confirming or denying things to media all the time. That'll be tantamount to paying heed to gossip. I'm not saying he's not going to be sacked, which could very well happen any time, but given he has a year left, there is no point saying anything to the media if he isn't going to be sacked.
Exactly!
It would make sense to fire him 4 months ago and try hard for top-4 with a caretaker. But now there is no urgency. And this is a long summer, the Euro starts in 2 weeks. They will probably set up everything else, find a new manager, prepare the player transfers, and then sack ETH.
What if the Euros is cancelled due to Covid or some other contingency? What happens then? Utd without a manager and the whole cycle begins again.
This reads to me like negotiations over his severance package. Imagine sticking with a manager the suits don't want only because they're unwilling to agree to a package. Hilarious stuff if my theory proves to be correct.
You've touched upon a bigger problem for Ineos and not the fanbase. They will work hard to control the fanbase with promises of 'jam tomorrow', any dissenters dismissed as 'EtH apologists', 'clueless' or 'impatient'.
If Ineos sack EtH, they will have sacked a manager who has provided honours in both full seasons, including one during a special period of adversity.
Can their guy do better? After all how much time should de zerbi/Frank/Poch/Southgate get to catch up? Two seasons? Five? Ten?
Ineos pleaded for their man to be 'given time' only works if we know they can succeed, but most of the names mentioned have done diddly in club football. It also doesn't work if the sacked predecessor won early.
He's entitled to his opinion as much as anyone, but Phelan could not crucially identify a successor and provide a rationale. Who's out but not in.
That's the 'expectation' he had to meet in his interview, but just continues the narrative United should be somehow impervious to the effect of injuries, because 'we're Man United'.
It may be not a great plan for you; however if the current manager wasn't meeting their goals and standards, then it is well within their plan.
Also, nice of you to pick these two teams and ignore the three who changed their managers despite finishing in the top 3 in their respective leagues.
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You, man!Maybe don’t butt in on a reply to someone else then? None of the managers you mentioned are options, but yes if they were we should probably act fast. Your intervention made no sense
You’re just looking for an argument and I’m not here for it.
[USER=90760]@Insanity[/USER] was saying how awful United are (paraphrasing)because we haven’t knee jerked a decision on the manager, and holding up the clubs mentioned as great examples. Mighty clubs like Bayern, Barca, Chelsea and Liverpool. He neglected to mention Bayern were rejected several times and have appointed relegated Burnley’s manager because they are a mess behind the scenes, Barca have flip flopped xavi or no xavi, Chelsea are a shitshow and even the scousers couldn’t get their first few choices, thus implying we should be changing the manager just for the sake of it when in reality the manager market isn’t great right now. There is a quantity of managers available, there isn’t much quality.
I'll ignore it because if I "paraphrase" I'll get a penalty."Available" is a misnomer. Good players or managers are hardly "available". You have to go and get them if you have ambitions.
I actually think that the decision to keep Ten Hag has been made already and conveyed to him too. The time this is taking is simply to show that there were intense deliberations to come to this decision for appearances.
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Yeah, that's what I exactly meant.We haven't won the league for 11 years because we didn't sack Ten hag in 2024.Keep 'em coming
And please, you don't Keep'em coming.
In other words, you're surprised we've not sacked Ten Hag because Chelsea sacked Poch. And used Liverpool having to hire a new manager after Klopp quit to try to make that statement sound more reasonable.
Read the post before that and then come back.
INEOS is not dithering lads, it's Southgate, and probably already sorted a while back, just cannot announce it until after the Euros
Stop fear-monging with ye bollocksINEOS is not dithering lads, it's Southgate, and probably already sorted a while back, just cannot announce it until after the Euros
I tried to put myself in the shoes of a Man Utd fan who has no emotional connection to Erik ten Hag and Ajax..
I can really see why some posters would want him out based on last season.. There was little progress in style of play, we looked like an open house defensively more often than not and there are little signs of developing an actual attacking style of play.. I can also see the other side, because he actually did manage to win two trophies and because there really have been circumstances with the take-over and the injuries (mainly Martinez, no left back for the majority of the season, no stable #6 available with Casemiro/Amrabat) and having to rely on only 1 single unexperienced striker.. Perhaps I'd be on the 'he must go, we are going nowhere' side, perhaps I'd be on the 'give him another season with stable organization' as long as there is no stand-out candidate available side..
But I'm not a Man Utd fan who has no emotional connection to Erik ten Hag and Ajax.. I'm a very big Man Utd fan from childhood, who is an even bigger Ajax fan from childhood.. And I want ETH to stay.. Ive seen what he can do to a team, what he did to Ajax, what kind of style he can implement, how he can build a team around the strenghts of his strongest most skillful players.. He has that in him.. He did it Ajax twice.. the Frenkie/Matthijs/Donny/Schone years, and the Martinez/Alvarez/Timber/Haller/Atony years.. (given Ziyech, Tagliafico, Blind, Tadic where there throughout most..)..
I still really firmly believe he can implement that here if his line up becomes more the result of his thoughts and what he want to implement, in stead of him juggling the available players into a starting 11.. The greatest transformation ETH can hope for, is a massive upgrade on the medical squads performances.. If you ask me...
Another point here.. Having posted little but read through most of the 2793 pages on here.. I notice people are trying to convince each other with reasoning and convince themselves with reasoning.. A lot of observations/facts/accusations are thrown from each side to the other.. But overall there are I think objective reasonings for wanting him out immediately and saying he is the worst manager post SAF we have had, and objective reasonings for thinking he is the best post SAF manager we have and the right person to bring us back to a PL competing squad.. What each individual poster focusses on is just the (very subjective/emotional) feeling/preference with ETH (which is ok, either way) and the arguments thrown and valued from there onward are mostly a result of confirmation bias..
Please try all to realize that we are all Man Utd supporters and all want the best.. Even though someone else full heartedly disagrees with you into a certain topic, like the future of ETH...
I can really see why some posters would want him out based on last season.. There was little progress in style of play, we looked like an open house defensively more often than not and there are little signs of developing an actual attacking style of play.. I can also see the other side, because he actually did manage to win two trophies and because there really have been circumstances with the take-over and the injuries (mainly Martinez, no left back for the majority of the season, no stable #6 available with Casemiro/Amrabat) and having to rely on only 1 single unexperienced striker.. Perhaps I'd be on the 'he must go, we are going nowhere' side, perhaps I'd be on the 'give him another season with stable organization' as long as there is no stand-out candidate available side..
But I'm not a Man Utd fan who has no emotional connection to Erik ten Hag and Ajax.. I'm a very big Man Utd fan from childhood, who is an even bigger Ajax fan from childhood.. And I want ETH to stay.. Ive seen what he can do to a team, what he did to Ajax, what kind of style he can implement, how he can build a team around the strenghts of his strongest most skillful players.. He has that in him.. He did it Ajax twice.. the Frenkie/Matthijs/Donny/Schone years, and the Martinez/Alvarez/Timber/Haller/Atony years.. (given Ziyech, Tagliafico, Blind, Tadic where there throughout most..)..
I still really firmly believe he can implement that here if his line up becomes more the result of his thoughts and what he want to implement, in stead of him juggling the available players into a starting 11.. The greatest transformation ETH can hope for, is a massive upgrade on the medical squads performances.. If you ask me...
Another point here.. Having posted little but read through most of the 2793 pages on here.. I notice people are trying to convince each other with reasoning and convince themselves with reasoning.. A lot of observations/facts/accusations are thrown from each side to the other.. But overall there are I think objective reasonings for wanting him out immediately and saying he is the worst manager post SAF we have had, and objective reasonings for thinking he is the best post SAF manager we have and the right person to bring us back to a PL competing squad.. What each individual poster focusses on is just the (very subjective/emotional) feeling/preference with ETH (which is ok, either way) and the arguments thrown and valued from there onward are mostly a result of confirmation bias..
Please try all to realize that we are all Man Utd supporters and all want the best.. Even though someone else full heartedly disagrees with you into a certain topic, like the future of ETH...
Lots of you scouts are miserable aren't you.
The manager landscape has changed, so much over the past 2 months - even week.
I can only echo this post. We all want what's best for the club.
Despite being EtH out for probably longer than most now, I can see why others want him to stay. As you say, I think both sides have valid arguments, and, despite when times got a bit too heated, it's made for some good debates here.
Regardless of the decision, we just have to hope that decision was made with the clubs best interests at heart and continue supporting our team. If we do keep him, many of us would like to believe it's under the condition that he has to implement a progressive style of play, though. In year 3, we really need to see progress in that regard.
This is my hope to be honest. If Ineos say nothing at all and we just go into next season completely ignoring them, the journalists look so bad. Should not pander to them or make any announcements we weren’t planning to do anyway and why would any club come out and say ‘we will back the manager’ at the end of the year?
I think it’s simply a case of waiting for the right people to be in their jobs first, SJR can’t win here.
It’s evident with Nice they don’t dither when things are set up and running.
I took teams that finished above us to mean other PL teams. Not teams from other leagues that finished above us too.
Anyway, Bayern/Barca are set up to chop and change the manager every two minutes. They're a small cog in a larger wheel. Bayern can gamble on Kompany with little repercussions. Likewise Flick at Barca. One or both of them will probably end up sacked in 18 months.
Juventus will probably re-hire Allegri in a few months.
Chelsea are just lost their minds.
It’s just a well written and rational post. Not a lot of that in here.
"You share my viewpoint so welcome to the forum".
Just keep him. Who can be arsed starting this whole process all over again?
Lets be realistic here, the only trophies that matter enough to change course on a manager are the CL and the PL which is why no one ever gets his status reviewed if he does well there. Those are the actual indicators of progress and he failed in both, not talking about winning but competing in a way that shows that if gets more time he could challenge.
The only way the FA Cup or the League Cup become a barometer of progress is if they are accompanied by a strong showing in the league, they will never be an excuse for failure in the league. Not at this club or any other club with serious ambitions.
Now on to the successor, more and more clubs are taking risks on unheralded managers with the intention of emulating Arsenal and Leverkusen - get a young manager who is playing the right way with modern tactics, back him and hope he grows with the team. We could have done that with McKenna and people would have given him the time needed knowing that we are building and he will make some mistakes.
We could have got, could still get, Tuchel and give him the players to balance the squad and expect to finish in the top 4 in the next couple of seasons. He could do that and still win you some Cups. Evaluate the situation after a couple of seasons and if he isn't falling out with people, still delivering the continue but if he is making things toxic then move on, a few more desirable managers would be available then.
INEOS know what they want to do, the Cup win has just made it a bit more complicated with the optics and that in itself is a worrying sign. If they wanted to keep him they would have made a statement to that effect in aftermath of a surprise Cup win but it seems to me some in their group are wavering, like a few fans are currently doing, but that's not the luxury a decision maker can afford or should entertain. If the decision had been made to sack prior to Friday then they should stick with anything else exposes them as fickle clowns.
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I think most fans will want their team to play good football but then there comes a point where even those fans will say... can we win a trophy?
I mean if you are trying to say Poch is going to get us playing well and settle a team, you couldn't be more wrong. Chelsea fans will tell you how good this season was in terms of football, great football, fluid attacking football right?
You know during the PL campaign that City won, they would say it wasnt their best footballing campaign and relied on luck in different games... you need luck regardless if you are playing amazing football or dross football to win trophies. SAF had alot of luck winning trophies too. I guess you question our 08 CL win because we scrapped past Porto and needed a 40 yard goal or 99 final where we were very lucky?
Because I would tell you now, I will take a trophy be it CL, FA cup, Europa league over finishing 4th for 6 years with 0 trophies.
Spurs play good football and it was all Ange ball for 4 months but we have a better season.
When was the last time Poch stabilised a club and made them competitive?
Great contribution.
Where's the "I swing both ways" option? Not everything's binary, you know.
Gonna be a big day today.
What I simply meant was that a lot of clubs, big clubs, were looking for managers and most of them have already made their appointments. Chelsea, Liverpool, Bayern, Barca, Milan, Juve - all had managerial vacancies and now all of them have filled the spot (I think Juve is the only one who haven't officially announced yet). INEOS have had time to ponder over this for months. If they started the process only after the FA cup final, then nothing much has changed from the previous regime who were also reactive to situations rather being proactive.
I also mentioned before that it is not respectable to our current manager if he is indeed kept hanging while we are taking our own sweet time to decide.
However, I think there are only two possibilities, in both the cases they are just bidding time to appear more deliberative:
- 90% chance is that they have decided Ten Hag will continue next season and a new contract extension will be announced soon. He has been made aware of the decision.
- 10% chance is that it's going to be De Zerbi.
I, personally, see no other possibility.
I don't understand how other teams can be utterly fecked by injuries (Newcastle, Brighton, feck even Chelsea for a bit) and still score goals and have a discernible style, yet for ten Hag it's used as get out of jail free card. I could accept being humiliated in the CL and league IF it was clear what ten Hag was trying to do, and if we still had the fundamentals down. We have neither, so it's really hard to have faith in him moving forward.