Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[stefan92]

Dortmund just got to UCL S/F should we also be getting their manager?

Do you want Sancho starting for United again? If yes, then do it.

But actually Terzic is a quite interesting case and probably worth a look at to compare with the EtH situation. Because both have been playing a system this season (and used players) that didn't work well. Terzic was in danger of being sacked for months, but instead Dortmund actually made some changes during the winter. Slightly different approach to transfers (getting Sancho and Maatsen instead of focusing on more physical types as they did in the summer) and changed the coaching staff. And especially Nuri Sahin allegedly is more focused on possession football to actually move the team in that direction.

Dortmund still are not a great team and Terzic' job is probably only saved because they reached the CL semifinal (which might be crucial to qualify for the CL as it helps Germany a lot to get the 5th spot), but it shows that you can act and change a full setup while keeping the manager, if he accepts he made a mistake. So far nothing indicates that United/EtH acknowledge they made a mistake and they did nothing to change the setup during this season.

 

[miliebrowndivorceattorney]

It's intriguing how some can still defend the guy. There's got to be opposition fans here on the wind up.

That we can easely turn around. Maybe it's the opposition fans sowing discord and keep on hammering how bad ETH is.

As a newbie, I am a bit taken aback how the discussion supposedly about ETH, goes towards posters and their stance on this here forum board. Attack the post, not the poster really is one of the forum rules. The mods here give you a lot of freedom and leeway to express yourself and you should honour and respect that.

On top of that it's a fallacy, the ad hominem. Even if there is an opposition fan, he could still have a valid argument. In fact, the rules do not make a distinction wich club supporters can and cannot post WUMing content. That is forbidden from any side. Opposition fans also get to register and publish their preference. Let's try to have a civil discussion without the ''ETH in cult'' nonsense.

Back on topic: for many ''on the fence''' people like me, indeed it is mostly a ''yes, but'' argumentation.

 

[Marcus]

No style and no good results. So I have voted no. I hope we don't have to pay him compensation to leave. But I am ok for him to stay until we have the proper personnel in place to hire the right manager, without rushing it. I might change my mind if he recants and says he will coach United to play like his successful Ajax teams.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

I like Ten Hag, and I held on as long as I could but voted no.

He's lost the dressing room, players have downed tools. Yes, again players have gotten another manager close to being fired and I don't like it but there is no turning this around.

The players haven’t downed tools at all.

 

[AneRu]

I think United spends elite level funds and has
Elite level expectations with a squad that’s simply not elite level. We have a mish mash of players quality players and players just not good enough and players who have not grown up in an elite squad so just don’t know how to take things to the next level.

The same mish mash squad achieved 4 top 3 finishes in 6 seasons before this one, he then got another 200m to correct it and look where that's taken us. We brought in leaders like Varane and Casemiro which should have taken of the last point but fact of the matter is that the manager has failed. He failed in the market and has failed to repair glaring tactical issues that have been prevalent since the first game of the season.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

Ten Hag was a hot property this time 2 years ago, europes up and coming management prospect. The Caf was largely begging for him to join us after Ole/Rangnick and up until the LC final he was the messiah.
Now his tricky second album isn’t the hit that the first one was we want to throw him in the trash?

This isn’t a “tricky second album”. This is a crash and burn album where the artist is calling everyone racist slurs and is being sexist on every single track.

A complete train wreck of a season/the last 13 months with zero progression and plenty of regression on the pitch.

 

[JPRouve]

The same mish mash squad achieved 4 top 3 finishes in 6 seasons before this one, he then got another 200m to correct it and look where that's taken us. We brought in leaders like Varane and Casemiro which should have taken of the last point but fact of the matter is that the manager has failed. He failed in the market and has failed to repair glaring tactical issues that have been prevalent since the first game of the season.

The crazy thing is that if you look at the team that we have and ignoring league titles and national cups, we have CL, EL Copa America and World Cup winners, but also different players that are CL, EL and Euro finalists. If we are being honest, the idea that our players are a bunch of scrubs that don't know how to win or compete at an elite level is nonsense.

 

[AneRu]

Clubs that win have an actual plan that includes having a competent transfer policy that can get players in/out that a manager needs.

Chelsea pre and post Roman is a solid example of this. United pre and post Woodward/Arnold will hopefully confirm that aswell.

I’d rather have no manager then INEOs making a “f**k it let’s try this lad” appointment

The same INEOS that's brought Berrada, Ashworth and Wilcox to United? I think they take this more seriously than you think and the one whose impact on things is currently understated is Berrada - the guy started out at Barcelona doing their sponsorships, went to City and started getting more involved in football operations until he rose to 2nd in command in the whole City group. He will be CEO here, setting the tone and performance parameters for guys like Ashworth and to think he will just accept a feck it let's give it to Potter and see is bonkers.

If they give it to Potter be sure that someone has convinced them that he is better than he has shown at Chelsea and that someone would have staked his head on how Potter does here. I think the decision on ETH's replacement will be more thought out than many on here expect, we have been rumored to have offered terms to Inzarghi and Nagelsmann and this should show people the direction they are leaning on. Like Berrada, our new manager will be out of the blue but it will be guaranteed that a lot of thought and work would have been put on it.

 

[Telsim]

This seems an odd question if I’m honest. What is the threshold or qualifying criteria for allowing a manager to do his job?
It’s never been a question of immediate success. It’s not realistic to expect that, even SAF wasn’t an instant hit.
Ten Hag was a hot property this time 2 years ago, europes up and coming management prospect. The Caf was largely begging for him to join us after Ole/Rangnick and up until the LC final he was the messiah.
Now his tricky second album isn’t the hit that the first one was we want to throw him in the trash?

He isn't the first manager to fail to make the step up, and he won't be the last. This level is too much for him. It is what it is, but on the club's side, it's time to cut the losses and look elsewhere. Not really that complicated.

I'm more surprised that 30% still think what's happening is acceptable. Standards are nonexistent at this point. Small club.

 

[yumtum]

People saying we've been injury plagued this season and praise him for playing youth players forget that he didn't rotate the team at all last season, burning them out and running them into the ground.

He has no squad management skills, wouldn't surprise me if he stayed on next season we'd get top 4 and maybe a cup, but the same issues will arise the following season due to his fixation on his preferred 11.

 

[AneRu]

Why would sacking managers of made things better the last 11 years ? Answer the question.

Every new manager we hired after Moyes achieved his objectives and got sacked when they failed them. We haven't won the major titles but we have won some respectable trophies and got into the top 3 in 4/11 seasons. The reason things didn't get better is that we delayed sacking Moyes, LvG and Ten Hag which all resulted in us missing top 4 which would have been within reach if we had acted earlier.

 

[Dearg hÉireann]

He isn't the first manager to fail to make the step up, and he won't be the last. This level is too much for him. It is what it is, but on the club's side, it's time to cut the losses and look elsewhere. Not really that complicated.

I'm more surprised that 30% still think what's happening is acceptable. Standards are nonexistent at this point. Small club.

Nonexistent standards is exactly how I see it if people are happy enough to let him stay next season after this shitshow of a season and the disappointing finish to last season.

We're a monster of a club/business and it's time we started culling underperforming staff members/players as soon as it's clear they're not up to the job. I see a lot of posters saying, "well what other manager's available?" It's not the bloody point, if we want a player we can break the bank for them so let's do the same for our most important position and get the best in class, and I'm hopeful INEOS will do just that.

 

[AneRu]

The crazy thing is that if you look at the team that we have and ignoring league titles and national cups, we have CL, EL Copa America and World Cup winners, but also different players that are CL, EL and Euro finalists. If we are being honest, the idea that our players are a bunch of scrubs that don't know how to win or compete at an elite level is nonsense.

It's madness. We all know that Rashford is the first player to let his head drop but put him in a semi functional team he delivers, push Bruno up the pitch he delivers. Ten Hag and the structure behind him failed to identify the striker Bruno and Rashford needed to get the best out of them - Martial is the glue that held our attack together whenever he was fit or in our high scoring periods and we needed a striker like him, someone who is good at link up and hold play for Rashford to play off.

We needed a midfield orchestrator to be the link between midfield and attack, how they decided Mount was the guy, is beyond my ability to understand. It was also getting clear that we needed a proper Casemiro alternative and we settled on Amrabat well these things happen, you can get one wrong but all three major signings?

 

[edgecutter]

This tread will change like the wind after Sunday when united beat Coventry. We'll have fans talk about winning the fa Cup as a great achievement that should buy him time totally forgetting that if city get to the final they'll destroy us due to have naive ETHs tactics are.

Also, if we continue with him into next season things won't change. We won't be able to boot out all the players that we want gone and how we play with him managing us will continue the trend we have had this season. It's mental to keep him on, and I was one of the very few that said that he should have been sacked after the terrible champions league campaign.

 

[Rista]

A lot of people saying we should keep him for another season because better options aren't available. Interesting how many clubs will need a manager for the next season and they will all manage to get one just fine but somehow we can't. If people are convinced Potter or De Zerbi are the only options then what will change after another season? Absolutely nothing.

Failing by every metric and failing at reaching objectives and yet fans still want to keep the manager. Talk about non existing standards. When we beat Coventry the "we should keep him because of trophy" argument is going to be next big thing on here.

 

[Leftback99]

This seems an odd question if I’m honest. What is the threshold or qualifying criteria for allowing a manager to do his job?
It’s never been a question of immediate success. It’s not realistic to expect that, even SAF wasn’t an instant hit.
Ten Hag was a hot property this time 2 years ago, europes up and coming management prospect. The Caf was largely begging for him to join us after Ole/Rangnick and up until the LC final he was the messiah.
Now his tricky second album isn’t the hit that the first one was we want to throw him in the trash?

It's not an odd question at all. I'm simply asking what you're seeing in him that I'm not?

What he did in Eredivisie (narrowly beating PSV to a title) is irrelevant now, he should be compared against other managers we've had and he's done nothing to deserve more time than they got when performance was poor.

 

[JPRouve]

It's madness. We all know that Rashford is the first player to let his head drop but put him in a semi functional team he delivers, push Bruno up the pitch he delivers. Ten Hag and the structure behind him failed to identify the striker Bruno and Rashford needed to get the best out of them - Martial is the glue that held our attack together whenever he was fit or in our high scoring periods and we needed a striker like him, someone who is good at link up and hold play for Rashford to play off.

We needed a midfield orchestrator to be the link between midfield and attack, how they decided Mount was the guy, is beyond my ability to understand. It was also getting clear that we needed a proper Casemiro alternative and we settled on Amrabat well these things happen, you can get one wrong but all three major signings?

I totally agree with that view. I'm not necessarily stuck with specific roles or players but outside of ETH own failures, where the structure is at fault is for not imposing the addition of certain needed profiles, a game manager next to either Casemiro as a pure DM or Mainoo as a box to box is a must. A playmaking striker could have been a better addition but the other alternative was to move on from Bruno in place of a more traditional attacking midfielder or playmaker. But all of that still relies on the manager building a setup that doesn't by default put everyone in a bad spot.

 

[AneRu]

I totally agree with that view. I'm not necessarily stuck with specific roles or players but outside of ETH own failures, where the structure is at fault is for not imposing the addition of certain needed profiles, a game manager next to either Casemiro as a pure DM or Mainoo as a box to box is a must. A playing making striker could have been a better addition but the other alternative was to move on from Bruno in place of a more traditional attacking midfielder or playmaker. But all of that still relies on the manager building a setup that doesn't by default put everyone in a bad spot.

Truth, Casemiro looks done but he had no chance having to sprint 50m every few minutes. Wouldn't be surprised if a Juve or an Inter pick him up and squeeze four years of acceptable performances out of him.

 

[Plant0x84]

Also let's forget that arsenal were actually making progress and looking like a decent team. We aren't progressing even slightly, but instead of opposite.

Arsenal had a settled ownership (Josh Kroenke was particularly effusive in his backing of Arteta) and a competent football hierarchy. They were signing players that fit there plan and play style and were building with young players. This is where we are at now with ten hag and INEOS. We have the bones of a very good team, but our squad still needs building.
If we buy well to replace Martial, Eriksen, Casemiro, Varane etc our squad will be young and exciting - and we will be going places.

 

[miliebrowndivorceattorney]

It's madness. We all know that Rashford is the first player to let his head drop but put him in a semi functional team he delivers, push Bruno up the pitch he delivers. Ten Hag and the structure behind him failed to identify the striker Bruno and Rashford needed to get the best out of them - Martial is the glue that held our attack together whenever he was fit or in our high scoring periods and we needed a striker like him, someone who is good at link up and hold play for Rashford to play off.

We needed a midfield orchestrator to be the link between midfield and attack, how they decided Mount was the guy, is beyond my ability to understand. It was also getting clear that we needed a proper Casemiro alternative and we settled on Amrabat well these things happen, you can get one wrong but all three major signings?

Martial also had a lot of bad games the last 2 years, if he played at all. But you are right. A true, number one, experienced striker could have made a big, big difference. There was one available, and willing. Harry Kane. You would have a very productive 25 goals a year striker and a good captain to boot. English, commercial values that would shade Rooney and CR7. Instead of 48 we could have 73 goals for now, dead certain top 3. The Glazers could have sold the club for at least 500 million more and England loving SJR would have paid that. The club could have started a difficult but in the end winning negotiation with Levy and show United still is a true, true top club.

But the Glazers said no.

Imo the most stupid decision they ever made. A lot of people concluded ETH overproduced last year and if they didn't back him with a big, serious revival - the one Rangnick said United needs, this drop back in results, performance, could be predicted. Even if you look at it from a selling point of view: why did the Glazers take a big gamble that a rookie striker, Mount and Onana would suddenly make us on par with Arsenal, LFC and City squad? The outrageous spending Chelsea? Guys like Kane usually aren't vailable, unless they themselve want to go. Kane wanted to go. They should have thrown the kitchensink in lawyers and managers at such a deal.

 

[The Mitcher]

Arsenal had a settled ownership (Josh Kroenke was particularly effusive in his backing of Arteta) and a competent football hierarchy. They were signing players that fit there plan and play style and were building with young players. This is where we are at now with ten hag and INEOS. We have the bones of a very good team, but our squad still needs building.
If we buy well to replace Martial, Eriksen, Casemiro, Varane etc our squad will be young and exciting - and we will be going places.

We aren't at all where Aresenal are. Also ETH has done nothing to improve the players like Arteta and Klopp did at their respective clubs. Nor will this play style EVER work because no players van succeed in it. He's off in the summer, whether by sacking or resigning.

 

[The Mitcher]

Martial also had a lot of bad games the last 2 years, if he played at all. But you are right. A true, number one, experienced striker could have made a big, big difference. There was one available, and willing. Harry Kane. You would have a very productive 25 goals a year striker and a good captain to boot. English, commercial values that would shade Rooney and CR7. Instead of 48 we could have 73 goals for now, dead certain top 3. The Glazers could have sold the club for at least 500 million more and England loving SJR would have paid that. The club could have started a difficult but in the end winning negotiation with Levy and show United still is a true, true top club.

But the Glazers said no.

Imo the most stupid decision they ever made. A lot of people concluded ETH overproduced last year and if they didn't back him with a big, serious revival - the one Rangnick said United needs, this drop back in results, performance, could be predicted. Even if you look at it from a selling point of view: why did the Glazers take a big gamble that a rookie striker, Mount and Onana would suddenly make us on par with Arsenal, LFC and City squad? The outrageous spending Chelsea? Guys like Kane usually aren't vailable, unless they themselve want to go. Kane wanted to go. They should have thrown the kitchensink in lawyers and managers at such a deal.

England loving SJR? Says the Dutchman who can only defend ETH because he's Dutch.

 

[VP89]

We aren't at all where Aresenal are. Also ETH has done nothing to improve the players like Arteta and Klopp did at their respective clubs. Nor will this play style EVER work because no players van succeed in it. He's off in the summer, whether by sacking or resigning.

Ten Hag actually improved McTominay and Maguire from the levels of Oles final season. I'd argue he also did a fine job with Garnacho and Mainoo. He's certainly improved Dalot as well.

 

[Rightnr]

People saying we've been injury plagued this season and praise him for playing youth players forget that he didn't rotate the team at all last season, burning them out and running them into the ground.

He has no squad management skills, wouldn't surprise me if he stayed on next season we'd get top 4 and maybe a cup, but the same issues will arise the following season due to his fixation on his preferred 11.

Exactamento. A lot of his troubles are his very own doing.

Injuries? He overplayed players in the most intense season in football history and refused to use his squad game in, game out.

No impact on squad/transfers? He has a veto over transfers and got his guys in Antony, Mount and Hojlund for over 200m and neither have covered themselves in glory. He also made Fernandes captain and approved Rashford's new contract on stupid money.

Too much change at the club? Not more than at Chelsea when Tuchel was finishing top 4.

Literally, every excuse for him is overblown and mostly not even valid. Defending him is just pure lunacy after watching us play AND the results we get.

 

[AneRu]

Martial also had a lot of bad games the last 2 years, if he played at all. But you are right. A true, number one, experienced striker could have made a big, big difference. There was one available, and willing. Harry Kane. You would have a very productive 25 goals a year striker and a good captain to boot. English, commercial values that would shade Rooney and CR7. Instead of 48 we could have 73 goals for now, dead certain top 3. The Glazers could have sold the club for at least 500 million more and England loving SJR would have paid that. The club could have started a difficult but in the end winning negotiation with Levy and show United still is a true, true top club.

But the Glazers said no.

Imo the most stupid decision they ever made. A lot of people concluded ETH overproduced last year and if they didn't back him with a big, serious revival - the one Rangnick said United needs, this drop back in results, performance, could be predicted. Even if you look at it from a selling point of view: why did the Glazers take a big gamble that a rookie striker, Mount and Onana would suddenly make us on par with Arsenal, LFC and City squad? The outrageous spending Chelsea? Guys like Kane usually aren't vailable, unless they themselve want to go. Kane wanted to go. They should have thrown the kitchensink in lawyers and managers at such a deal.

Levy has always had CL designs, no way he was going to strengthen us at the potential expense of his side. This one was always a difficult one to pull off and it wouldn't have been beyond Levy to string us along all through the summer, a la Barca with Fabregas and FDK, then eventually feck us over. The decision to move on from him was correct in my view.

On the second part why are the Glazers taking blame for ETH's talent ID. Bar Hoijlund, the players we signed in the summer all have a history of playing for him or against him in the Dutch League. What the Glazers are guilty of is in neglecting the structure above the manager swhich could confidently and robustly push back against his suggestions. No one is ever going to convince me that Ten Hag was a mere bystander as we recruited his former players. That's why Murtough is out of a job right now.

 

[JPRouve]

This seems an odd question if I’m honest. What is the threshold or qualifying criteria for allowing a manager to do his job?
It’s never been a question of immediate success. It’s not realistic to expect that, even SAF wasn’t an instant hit.
Ten Hag was a hot property this time 2 years ago, europes up and coming management prospect. The Caf was largely begging for him to join us after Ole/Rangnick and up until the LC final he was the messiah.
Now his tricky second album isn’t the hit that the first one was we want to throw him in the trash?

SAF was an instant hit and SAF had a significantly better track record before joining United. It's the third and fourth seasons that were rough but then we are talking about a manager that had higher pedigree and had two excellent first seasons with the club.

 

[The Mitcher]

Ten Hag actually improved McTominay and Maguire from the levels of Oles final season. I'd argue he also did a fine job with Garnacho and Mainoo. He's certainly improved Dalot as well.

Maguire is nowhere near as good as he was in his first season and McTominay is STILL the same. Stop talking nonsense.

 

[The Mitcher]

SAF was an instant hit and SAF had a significantly better track record before joining United. It's the third and fourth seasons that were rough but then we are talking about a manager that had higher pedigree and had two excellent first seasons with the club.

Yep, he came in mid season in his first which is why we came 11th.

 

[JPRouve]

Yep, he came in mid season in his first which is why we came 11th.

From 20th to 11th to 2nd. IIRC the third season is when he started making bigger changes behind the scene and things didn't click immediately but then we are talking about someone that had a long track record of success without United, who had very successful first seasons with United and was also younger, he joined United at 45 with actual continental success and long national success while managing one of the underdogs while he could have been sacked there were a lot more reasons to give him time to get things back on track.

 

[Max_United]

From 20th to 11th to 2nd. IIRC the third season is when he started making bigger changes behind the scene and things didn't click immediately but then we are talking about someone that had a long track record of success without United, who had very successful first seasons with United and was also younger, he joined United at 45 with actual continental success and long national success while managing one of the underdogs while he could have been sacked there were a lot more reasons to give him time to get things back on track.

Exactly, EtH had a good CV pre-United and arguably deserved a chance at a higher level, but nowhere near the CV to withstand such a bad season.

His highest achievement, a CL semi with Ajax was replicated over the last decades by plenty of managers with clubs which are not expected to reach this stage, most of whom had zero success at higher levels thereafter.

Even ignoring the obvious differences with the cases of Fergie and Arteta, they both were exceptions, and 95-99% the time when a manager underperforming to the same degree as EtH was sacked, nobody regretted it afterwards.

When one evaluates whether EtH deserves another season, it boils down to whether you believe he is closer to Fergie or at least Arteta - or to De Boer. I think we have seen enough evidence to suggest that it is the latter.

Reasonable people can still disagree (and there are/will soon be of course people at United better equipped to judge it) I guess but honestly based on what I have seen I struggle to see how he will be better in his career than somebody like Bosz, who is a similar level of manager I believe. Good for Eredivisie and having good runs in European Cups, but somewhat lost outside of it.

 

[Plant0x84]

We aren't at all where Aresenal are. Also ETH has done nothing to improve the players like Arteta and Klopp did at their respective clubs. Nor will this play style EVER work because no players van succeed in it. He's off in the summer, whether by sacking or resigning.

Yes he has. He has found a role to maximise McT instead of leaving him to flounder in DM. We have seen improvements in Dalot and AWB (just not on the left) and he is managing the youngsters like Kobbie and Alejandro well.
This style of play I think is a response to our injury crisis. When key players are fit and he has reinforced his squad this summer we will see a different style of play, I’m sure. But we haven’t had the players available to build patterns, form relationships and develop a style.

 

[Ubik]

Yes he has. He has found a role to maximise McT instead of leaving him to flounder in DM. We have seen improvements in Dalot and AWB (just not on the left) and he is managing the youngsters like Kobbie and Alejandro well.
This style of play I think is a response to our injury crisis. When key players are fit and he has reinforced his squad this summer we will see a different style of play, I’m sure. But we haven’t had the players available to build patterns, form relationships and develop a style.

Hasn't he been trying to implement this style since pre-season, and it has looked bad regardless of personnel?

If suddenly in the last month something clicks and we start playing consistently well with it then I could be persuaded to give an extra year given the apparent alternatives, but if not then it would be thoroughly depressing to think we'll carry on with this into next season.

 

[TsuWave]

The crazy thing is that if you look at the team that we have and ignoring league titles and national cups, we have CL, EL Copa America and World Cup winners, but also different players that are CL, EL and Euro finalists. If we are being honest, the idea that our players are a bunch of scrubs that don't know how to win or compete at an elite level is nonsense.

Facts

 

[Swedish_Plumber]

I think he’ll be given another season. Don’t necessarily think he deserves that but that’s the way I think its going. If there was an outstanding candidate in the mould of a Klopp or Pep who we could realistically go out and get then he’d be brown bread here.

Needs to be a massive summer of clever business though. He’s shite but so are a lot of these players that he and the club have assembled. Too many hangers on that have shown us they’re not up to it too.

 

[miliebrowndivorceattorney]

Levy has always had CL designs, no way he was going to strengthen us at the potential expense of his side. This one was always a difficult one to pull off and it wouldn't have been beyond Levy to string us along all through the summer, a la Barca with Fabregas and FDK, then eventually feck us over. The decision to move on from him was correct in my view.

On the second part why are the Glazers taking blame for ETH's talent ID. Bar Hoijlund, the players we signed in the summer all have a history of playing for him or against him in the Dutch League. What the Glazers are guilty of is in neglecting the structure above the manager swhich could confidently and robustly push back against his suggestions. No one is ever going to convince me that Ten Hag was a mere bystander as we recruited his former players. That's why Murtough is out of a job right now.

You blame ETH for publicly courting Kane in the months leading up to the summer too? De Jong?

When Ratcliffe said it appears several high class managers have failed, seemingly because there was no ''environment''. The least the environment that was there last summer could have tried.

In the end, we still got screwed for at least 2 months without a designated striker because Hojlund was injured. That is another mistake. Why buy injured players? What vision is that? But Kane is a striker that comes along every 5 or 6 years. And he was available. He could have pressured Levy. We, the Glazers could have shown why they are Manchester United, not some 3rd rate minor club. If Levy said I want 165 million they should have given him 180 and an arranged marriage between Glazer daughetr with Levy son for all I care. They are from the same tribe anyway. Now we will never know but we could have tried. And imo we should have.

 

[AshRK]

The only reason I have given him 1 more season is because I don't see other options. Nagelsmann was my ideal choice and now he is committed to germany. Not sure who else? Tuchel? Potter? Southgate? De zerbi?

 

[RORY65]

Hasn't he been trying to implement this style since pre-season, and it has looked bad regardless of personnel?

If suddenly in the last month something clicks and we start playing consistently well with it then I could be persuaded to give an extra year given the apparent alternatives, but if not then it would be thoroughly depressing to think we'll carry on with this into next season.

I think the style of play was always the plan, he signed Mason Mount (a number 10/wide player who presses well and is technically good but doesn't get on the ball that much in games) to play alongside Bruno ahead of Casemiro so we were always going to be left with huge gaps unless we were a relentless pressing machine that could pin teams in their own half. I think you could argue that it would look better if we had Shaw and Martinez to improve our play out from the back and to close the spaces to some extent but Shaw is always injured and I'm not sure Martinez's lack of pace would look great defending a massive amount of space behind him so there would still have been issues.

My issue with Ten Hag is that we've spent a year almost doubling down on the initial plan for this season (we're more open than we were even against Wolves on the opening night because we needed to score more goals) and shown no improvement or development to build upon so at some stage he should have tried to find a way to make us less open but has shown no desire or ability to do so.

 

[Rista]

His highest achievement, a CL semi with Ajax was replicated over the last decades by plenty of managers with clubs which are not expected to reach this stage, most of whom had zero success at higher levels thereafter.

This is a very important point that often gets overlooked. Pretty much his entire reputation comes from that cup run but that achievement needs to be put into some context. Not only was it half a decade ago, which is a really long time in football but it's not really rare for managers to overachieve for a season in Europe only to never do anything of note again. There are also other factors like playing the worst Madrid side in some time that finished 19 points behind Barcelona and that had lost to CSKA Moscow twice in group stages, including the 0-3 loss at home.

A very good achievement but hardly something extraordinary and most definitely not something we should cling on to. Which is what I keep seeing still. People saying if we sack him he will be a success elsewhere because he's a "proven coach". All that based on that one single cup run from a long time ago.

The only reason I have given him 1 more season is because I don't see other options. Nagelsmann was my ideal choice and now he is committed to germany. Not sure who else? Tuchel? Potter? Southgate? De zerbi?

If we can't identify a manager who could get us playing better than whatever ETH is currently serving then that's not a good look for the new people in charge, don't you think? We see the likes of Bayern and Liverpool and we assume they will find a suitable candidate but somehow we can't do that.

 

[Ubik]

This is a very important point that often gets overlooked. Pretty much his entire reputation comes from that cup run but that achievement needs to be put into some context. Not only was it half a decade ago, which is a really long time in football but it's not really rare for managers to overachieve for a season in Europe only to never do anything of note again. There are also other factors like playing the worst Madrid side in some time that finished 19 points behind Barcelona and that had lost to CSKA Moscow twice in group stages, including the 0-3 loss at home.

A very good achievement but hardly something extraordinary and most definitely not something we should cling on to. Which is what I keep seeing still. People saying if we sack him he will be a success elsewhere because he's a "proven coach". All that based on that one single cup run from a long time ago.


If we can't identify a manager who could get us playing better than whatever ETH is currently serving then that's not a good look for the new people in charge, don't you think? We see the likes of Bayern and Liverpool and we assume they will find a suitable candidate but somehow we can't do that.

To be fair those things are linked, it's going to be a struggle in our current state and with our recent history to attract suitable candidates over those two. You can add Juve in the case of eg Motta. And even Bayern are struggling a bit.

Not that that's a reason in itself to keep ten Hag, as it's better to have someone that might fail than someone who has failed.

 

[VP89]

Maguire is nowhere near as good as he was in his first season and McTominay is STILL the same. Stop talking nonsense.

McTominay isn't the same, he found a use for him in an advanced position and maximised his skillsets. Maguire was more dogshite under Ole than good, and Ten Hag made him back to similar levels of season 1 despite needing to play a system that's ill suited for him.

Nonsense is suggesting McT this season. Is the same player as under Ole. That would be a rather daft insinuation.