[criticalanalysis]

Shocker.

Well that goes for pretty much everyone to be honest.

I'd still play him ahead of Lindelof if those were the only options. I'd hope he doesn't get dropped just to bring back peddle master.

Ole can't take blame for the individual performances but this is not new. It's on him to fix this and elevate everyone's level.

 

[Jibbs]

At the start of transfer window we all (well most of us) agreed that Bailly is unreliable and needs to be sold and one of Upamecano or Pau Torres needs to be signed. But I think Ole wanted to give him one more opportunity.

 

[Bash92]

I wonder why you guys are afraid to blame the fraud of a captain we have. Maguire was responsible for atleast 3 of the goals we conceded. I can only blame Baily for the pass to Matic that led to goal.

 

[thepolice123]

Incredibly braindead performance. And what's with that stamp on Kane. Does he know we are 1 man down? Ffs Bailly.

 

[Asger]

Shocker.

Well that goes for pretty much everyone to be honest.

I'd still play him ahead of Lindelof if those were the only options. I'd hope he doesn't get dropped just to bring back peddle master.

Ole can't take blame for the individual performances but this is not new. It's on him to fix this and elevate everyone's level.

Maybe try Bailly and Lindelof together? Can't be worse than Maguire.

 

[POF]

I feel for Bailly a bit. He had a poor game for sure but the rest of the back 4 were just as bad. Maguire's mistake for the first goal was abysmal. Shaw for the 4th was one of the worst defensive decisions I've ever seen. Left the near post to shut down a player outside the box.

Bailly also made an incredible triple block in the first half to prevent a certain goal.

The whole performance was the culmination of the negativity around the club at the moment. How the mood is this low after the run the team went on last season is just incredible. It really demonstrates a very weak mentality.

The club has let Ole down badly but to allow this negativity to permeate through the playing group is a black mark against him.

 

[Snow]

There's a player in there no doubt about that. I'm convinced with a run of matches the mistakes will diminish. No good throwing him in now and then. He needs to get his confidence up. He's the least of our problems. Needs a run!

It's his 5th season. Either he's injured or making big mistakes. His time is up.

 

[Charles89]

I feel for Bailly a bit. He had a poor game for sure but the rest of the back 4 were just as bad. Maguire's mistake for the first goal was abysmal. Shaw for the 4th was one of the worst defensive decisions I've ever seen. Left the near post to shut down a player outside the box.

Bailly also made an incredible triple block in the first half to prevent a certain goal.

The whole performance was the culmination of the negativity around the club at the moment. How the mood is this low after the run the team went on last season is just incredible. It really demonstrates a very weak mentality.

The club has let Ole down badly but to allow this negativity to permeate through the playing group is a black mark against him.

Yes, he's made good blocks and he's good at that, putting himself on the line for those goal saving tackles. But did you see where my arms were when those tackles were made? They were both held up above his head and there was every chance that the ball would hit his hands for a penalty.

 

[utdalltheway]

It's his 5th season. Either he's injured or making big mistakes. His time is up.

That sums up well his last few years. Time to move on and get a world class defender in his place.

 

[POF]

Yes, he's made good blocks and he's good at that, putting himself on the line for those goal saving tackles. But did you see where my arms were when those tackles were made? They were both held up above his head and there was every chance that the ball would hit his hands for a penalty.

Better than when Maguire tried to block Ndombele's first goal or the cross for the 4th. He threw himself in front of it and the ball wasn't getting past.

He fell asleep for the second goal and I don't know what he was thinking for the third but he does have qualities this team needs.

 

[Caesar2290]

This might sound weird, but I think a CB partnership of Lindelof and Bailly might be our temporary permanent fix for this season.

They just compliment each other perfectly. At least they looked pretty good in the game against Brighton.

 

[DoomSlayer]

Bailly was miles better than Maguire, after the latter's mistakes, the whole team crumbled and there was no communication.

 

[CiroDiMarzio]

There's a player in there no doubt about that. I'm convinced with a run of matches the mistakes will diminish. No good throwing him in now and then. He needs to get his confidence up. He's the least of our problems. Needs a run!

This is like parody at this point. If he was 16 maybe you'd say there's a player in there. He is so lacking in fundamentals it's hard to understand how he got this far in the game. He seems like a great bloke, but he has no business being at Utd.

 

[Craig Ward]

Maybe try Bailly and Lindelof together? Can't be worse than Maguire.

It really would be.

Maguires not in form at the moment, but Lindelof is a car crash of a defender.

Bailly is probably our best CB - he just needs a run of games and for the whole back 6 to work as a solid unit.

 

[A-man]

I think both Maguire's and Bailly's performances were the two worst I've ever seen from a United CB. But the difference is that Maguire has shown he can play week in, week out, and for most of the games be decent, good or very good, normally 6-8 /10 rating. Bailly has a handful of good games that have been overrated as amazing because it is Bailly with is type of gamestyle with speed, tackles and blocks. Also, most of his games were against weak teams.

There was no partnership whatsoever between them. When Maguire pushed forward in attack, so did Bailly and then he was late for the counter. That's one reason of ten why they don't work together.
When Maguire pushed forward in defence, which he always does, so did Bailly. The fast freekick goal for example, it was not only becasue Bailly was asleep, also because both were at the same place. It is easy to say Maguire shouldn't be there, but that's how he plays, he attacks where the ball is. So does Bailly, and that is a second reason why they don't work together.

It really would be.

Maguires not in form at the moment, but Lindelof is a car crash of a defender.

Bailly is probably our best CB - he just needs a run of games and for the whole back 6 to work as a solid unit.

There is really nothing indicating that at the moment.

 

[Sylar]

I dont blame him too much for the first two goals, but the third goal having just had a man sent off, that was pretty brainless. Its a dangerous pass even if its 0-0 with 11 men, but at the position we were in, the game wasnt over. But that just helped finish it off.

 

[Chaky_Best]

He's bee awful yesterday and just reminds the one who thought he was Ramos that he's not even better than Jonny Evans

 

[UpWithRivers]

Said it for months. Sell him. We just give players too many chances. How many seasons should a player get to establish themselves. Bailly is getting 5. Its enough.

 

[11101]

I never said he was brilliant. What I said was that Bailly was the worst. of course the pundits are on him. He's a marked man. He wears the arm band and has a 85m price tag hanging over his head. But if you strip that all away and just compare performances then it is clear that Bailly is just not good enough. Maguire was at fault for the first goal. He had a brain fart doing what he normally does very well. Heading the ball. Bailly however was at fault for the next 3 goals as he is too reactionary as opposed to anticipating a play happening. Funny thing is, I can forgive him for the bad pass. That's just a mistake that happens to the best of us (much like Harry's missed header). But I can't forgive poor marking. He just watches Son go for both of his goals. He is not a good defender. He gets away with his poor marking because he can often make up for it with his speed. But this was unacceptable. We need a left footed central defender to play in Harry's position and then Harry can shift to right central defense in place of Lindeloff/Bailly....

That's all in your head. He's our Captain and an England regular.


1-1 - Ndombele
This needs no explanation. You'd see that in Sunday League.

Spoiler

1-2 - Son
Again, Sunday league stuff. It is the absolute basics of defending that you stand in front of the ball and don't let the opponent take a quick free kick in a dangerous area. Especially after you've given it away in the first place.

Spoiler

[/QUOTE]

1-4 - Son
Goes charging over to the left, leaving a massive hole in the middle i.e where the danger is. The team shape is destroyed at that point and everybody is scrambling to plug spaces. Then once out there, he doesn't challenge Aurier or even attempt to close down the cross, allowing a free pass for Son to run into the previously mentioned gaping hole.

Spoiler

Then as a bonus, 1-5 - Aurier
Nothing to do with him in the buildup, but once Aurier picks the ball up Maguire slows down and watches him shoot. Any centre back, defender, player of any sort, professional or amateur, should be sprinting and throwing themselves at that. Maguire actually checks his run and let's Aurier pick his placement.

Spoiler

Bailly was at fault only for the 3rd goal, where he was left with few options and under instruction to pass from the back. That's a team failure as much as an individual one.

 

[MadDogg]

Bailly was at fault only for the 3rd goal, where he was left with few options and under instruction to pass from the back. That's a team failure as much as an individual one.

Both Bailly and Maguire should have done better for the second goal. Maguire is more at fault by giving away a stupid freekick and then just letting Kane take it quickly, but Bailly was slow to react and let Son get a run on him.

As for the fourth goal Maguire, Shaw, Bailly all made different mistakes. Maguire was the one who messed up our defensive shape by pushing up out of the line of defence and forced Shaw to come completely central to compensate, and then Maguire should have pushed over earlier than he did to cover Aurier as he was never in position to reclaim the central spot. Shaw made the wrong decision to charge up to Kane for the very last pass and left the hole for Son and Lamela to run into. Bailly was once again slow to react to the fact they had two attackers charging towards the front post completely unmarked (even if Shaw hadn't pushed out it would have left Shaw trying to deal with two attackers). Of course there is also Matic not showing any real urgency to get back and just watched Son make the run, and Greenwood not showing any interest in getting back to help cover Aurier (although to be fair he'd gone for a high press so had a lot of ground to make up). I'd say Maguire is the most at fault as he's the one who ruined our defensive shape. but there are plenty (including Bailly) who should have done better.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

That's all in your head. He's our Captain and an England regular.


1-1 - Ndombele
This needs no explanation. You'd see that in Sunday League.

Spoiler

1-2 - Son
Again, Sunday league stuff. It is the absolute basics of defending that you stand in front of the ball and don't let the opponent take a quick free kick in a dangerous area. Especially after you've given it away in the first place.

Spoiler

1-4 - Son
Goes charging over to the left, leaving a massive hole in the middle i.e where the danger is. The team shape is destroyed at that point and everybody is scrambling to plug spaces. Then once out there, he doesn't challenge Aurier or even attempt to close down the cross, allowing a free pass for Son to run into the previously mentioned gaping hole.

Spoiler

Then as a bonus, 1-5 - Aurier
Nothing to do with him in the buildup, but once Aurier picks the ball up Maguire slows down and watches him shoot. Any centre back, defender, player of any sort, professional or amateur, should be sprinting and throwing themselves at that. Maguire actually checks his run and let's Aurier pick his placement.

Spoiler

Bailly was at fault only for the 3rd goal, where he was left with few options and under instruction to pass from the back. That's a team failure as much as an individual one.
[/QUOTE]

On that second goal Bailly watches Son walk past him inside. Doesn't attempt to get close to him until after the ball is passed to him. Sure, Maguire should have stepped on the ball, but this is about defending. Blaming the guy who didn't commit a yellow card offense for the goal instead of blaming the guy who was supposed to be marking the goal scorer is nothing more than "agenda 101" against Maguire

On that 4th goal, Maguire is nearest to the crosser, so it is HIS job to go shut him down. Son starts his run from the left side of the field. Again, Bailly watches him make his run and then reacts too late. He lets Son get in front of him. Again, if you are blaming Maguire for going to close down the crosser when he's the closest defender and really want him to stay where he is and give him a free run, then I don't know what to say. This again was on Bailly. Son was his man. Son was the goal scorer. Amazing how you want to blame Maguire for his man making an assist, but give Bailly a free pass for not marking the goal scorer who was his man. And then you claim not to have an agenda? Give your head a shake...

 

[11101]

Both Bailly and Maguire should have done better for the second goal. Maguire is more at fault by giving away a stupid freekick and then just letting Kane take it quickly, but Bailly was slow to react and let Son get a run on him.

As for the fourth goal Maguire, Shaw, Bailly all made different mistakes. Maguire was the one who messed up our defensive shape by pushing up out of the line of defence and forced Shaw to come completely central to compensate, and then Maguire should have pushed over earlier than he did to cover Aurier as he was never in position to reclaim the central spot. Shaw made the wrong decision to charge up to Kane for the very last pass and left the hole for Son and Lamela to run into. Bailly was once again slow to react to the fact they had two attackers charging towards the front post completely unmarked (even if Shaw hadn't pushed out it would have left Shaw trying to deal with two attackers). Of course there is also Matic not showing any real urgency to get back and just watched Son make the run, and Greenwood not showing any interest in getting back to help cover Aurier (although to be fair he'd gone for a high press so had a lot of ground to make up). I'd say Maguire is the most at fault as he's the one who ruined our defensive shape. but there are plenty (including Bailly) who should have done better.

It's rare that a goal is solely down to one player. I'm trying to focus on who it is who triggered the sequence and is most responsible. That was Bailly for only one of our goals. Maguire was the main culprit for 3 or 4.

Goal 2 is mostly down to Maguire. AWB and Bailly both let Son get a run on them, but it should never have gotten to that.
Goal 4 is a mess all over, but it's all started when Maguire goes wide. He waves his arm a bit for somebody to cover him but because he hasn't a clue what's going on he actually directs Shaw AWAY from where he's supposed to be. It's clear nobody knows what to do once he's left the centre and he leaves his position to do...nothing. Doesn't challenge, doesn't close down. Just goes over and stops 10 feet away from Aurier as he takes his time to pick a pass to Son, who is now in acres of space because Maguire has directed his covering player away from him.

 

[MadDogg]

It's rare that a goal is solely down to one player. I'm trying to focus on who it is who triggered the sequence and is most responsible. That was Bailly for only one of our goals. Maguire was the main culprit for 3 or 4.

Goal 2 is mostly down to Maguire. AWB and Bailly both let Son get a run on them, but it should never have gotten to that.
Goal 4 is a mess all over, but it's all started when Maguire goes wide. He waves his arm a bit for somebody to cover him but because he hasn't a clue what's going on he actually directs Shaw AWAY from where he's supposed to be. It's clear nobody knows what to do once he's left the centre and he leaves his position to do...nothing. Doesn't challenge, doesn't close down. Just goes over and stops 10 feet away from Aurier as he takes his time to pick a pass to Son, who is now in acres of space because Maguire has directed his covering player away from him.

I agree that it was mostly due to Maguire, but disagree that it's because he goes wide. I went back and watched the entire play and it all started from him stepping up out of the defence to follow Kane about 20 seconds earlier. Because he did that it meant Shaw had to come completely central to mark Lamela (if he hadn't Lamela was in completely clear space to run into a 1 on 1 with the keeper). As the play continued Maguire then had to do one of two things. Either he had to commit centrally and take control of Lamela again so that Shaw could push wide (he was never in position to do this one though without leaving Aurier even more space than what he got), or the better option of Maguire himself pushing wide to deal with Aurier. Instead Maguire did neither and sat in no-mans space between the two options, and then it was only after the ball was played out to Aurier that he went over to him, which gave Aurier plenty of time to control the ball, look up and pick his pass. Maguire needed to be wider and closer to him before the ball was even played out there.

 

[11101]

I agree that it was mostly due to Maguire, but disagree that it's because he goes wide. I went back and watched the entire play and it all started from him stepping up out of the defence to follow Kane about 20 seconds earlier. Because he did that it meant Shaw had to come completely central to mark Lamela (if he hadn't Lamela was in completely clear space to run into a 1 on 1 with the keeper). As the play continued Maguire then had to do one of two things. Either he had to commit centrally and take control of Lamela again so that Shaw could push wide (he was never in position to do this one though without leaving Aurier even more space than what he got), or the better option of Maguire himself pushing wide to deal with Aurier. Instead Maguire did neither and sat in no-mans space between the two options, and then it was only after the ball was played out to Aurier that he went over to him, which gave Aurier plenty of time to control the ball, look up and pick his pass. Maguire needed to be wider and closer to him before the ball was even played out there.

Given the position of Shaw he probably had to go wide, but when he got there he did nothing. In no mans lands as you say.

He was following Kane all game. I don't know if it was tactics or he just thought he was the biggest threat, but whatever it was, Kane was happy to drop back and drag him out of position all game long. It was very amateurish from us and him, especially when you've got Bailly who is known to go charging off out of position. Maguire had to stay put.

 

[glazed]

I've always thought Bailly would be really good if someone just coached him properly.

 

[pratyush_utd]

I've always thought Bailly would be really good if someone just coached him properly.

If only is always the case with him isn't it?

 

[glazed]

If only is always the case with him isn't it?

But you can see how much he wants to be good. And he has all the right physical characteristics to be world class. I feel sorry for him - he's at the wrong club. We buy young players and make them worse.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Given the position of Shaw he probably had to go wide, but when he got there he did nothing. In no mans lands as you say.

He was following Kane all game. I don't know if it was tactics or he just thought he was the biggest threat, but whatever it was, Kane was happy to drop back and drag him out of position all game long. It was very amateurish from us and him, especially when you've got Bailly who is known to go charging off out of position. Maguire had to stay put.

The whole back four seemed to be man-marking to ludicrous extremes. Hence Shaw ambled across after Lamela so far infield he was closer to the right touchline than the left, in the lead up to Son’s second goal.

Mind you, Bailly’s marking of Son was a hell of a lot less zealous than what we saw from Shaw and Maguire with Lamela and Kane. And by “lot less zealous” I actually mean nowhere near good enough.

All of which points towards a terrible combination of poor preparation, inappropriate instructions, poor communication and individual poor performances.

 

[El Jefe]

@ The first bolded, it wasn't relevant. We're talking about your opinion of the player which has been from the get-go, where you say that he is prone to having one good game and then a horror show. And then you turn around and say that no one is saying that he costs us matches with howlers and red cards. How can you contradict yourself so starkly in the space of 24 hours?

You did say he is prone to having a horror show every other game. Does a horror show mean something different from costing us in red cards and howlers?

You can believe what you want. I could choose to believe that there are magic beans somewhere in the universe. My strong belief wouldn't make it true. Evidence would... Do you have evidence that leads you to believe that over a run of 10 games, Bailly will suffer a red card and commit a howler?

@El Jefe And I'm asking if you can provide a list of these 'moments of madness' for us all?


Where have you seen any of the bolded recently? A good few of our recent conceded goals are because he's lacking exactly those qualities and letting people run in front of him.

What do you know Bailly gets a start in the PL and we see a horrow show. I said over a run of 10 games he'd prove his unreliability and he does so in his first PL start.

I didn't even need long to prove you both hand your head in the sand about Bailly's unreliability. He could play a blinder the next game but as I said, a shocker or an injury won't be far away.

 

[The Original]

What do you know Bailly gets a start in the PL and we see a horrow show. I said over a run of 10 games he'd prove his unreliability and he does so in his first PL start.

I didn't even need long to prove you both hand your head in the sand about Bailly's unreliability. He could play a blinder the next game but as I said, a shocker or an injury won't be far away.

I did imagine you would be quick to claim this game was proof of your theory. But every player makes mistakes so that was never the argument. Your argument was as to the frequency of said mistakes. Now we have a grand total of one premier league game to go by, you simply cannot draw any conclusion out of one game since every player is entitled to the odd bad day. What if he just had his early?

 

[sp_107]

Useless, Should have sold him.

 

[Foxbatt]

Bailly always switches off. He is not a team player and this has not been the first time he has switched off. He this is his previous match too. He put in a sliding tackle and then just got up and walked away without even looking back at what was going on. This is exactly what he did for the Son goal. Yes Maguire should have stopped the free kick and taken the yellow card but why the hell did Bailly who is marking Son let him get away? He switched off as usual. He is only a reactive player. Never asses the danger at all. He will dive and tackle and lie down but he is not going to be a top class player because he always switches off.

 

[arthurka]

Running around like a mad man while making last ditch tackles isn't great defending and never will be. He is bad in the air, has no composure, switches off and needs to throw himself about because his bad positioning. But what he has that we are lacking is a bit of a wild side and forwards never know what they will get. But that said so does the manager.

He isn't a good defender and never will be. The sad part is that we are debating this because all our CB's are rubbish. Lindelöf is the worst because he is just lacking everything but our best CB is clearly Harry but he is going through a terrible patch at the moment.

We needed to strengthen our options this window but sadly we are left with the three Stooges and 3 permacrocks.

 

[stevoc]

Running around like a mad man while making last ditch tackles isn't great defending and never will be. He is bad in the air, has no composure, switches off and needs to throw himself about because his bad positioning. But what he has that we are lacking is a bit of a wild side and forwards never know what they will get. But that said so does the manager.

He isn't a good defender and never will be. The sad part is that we are debating this because all our CB's are rubbish. Lindelöf is the worst because he is just lacking everything but our best CB is clearly Harry but he is going through a terrible patch at the moment.

We needed to strengthen our options this window but sadly we are left with the three Stooges and 3 permacrocks.

Neither do his teammates and that generally causes havoc whenever he plays.

And of course the reason his teammates and the opposition have no idea what Eric will do at any point. Is largely because i think Eric himself has no clue what he is going to do at any given time. Which is why he throws himself into so many reckless tackles and acrobatic clearances/blocks.

He's just not a good defender, in fact theres enough evidence now to suggest he's actually a bad one.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

If you look at the cost of our CBs. It’s shocking.

We paid £30m for this guy, and the same for Lindelof. Both appalling. Maguire was overpriced, he will come good though, but we still don’t have a partner for him. Jones was a £20m teenager, and Rojo cost a fortune when you consider the Nani loan.

£180m on CBs. Shocking.

Bailly is a player whose reputation grew with some posters the more he was out. We all know he’s not good enough, it was just whether he might be better that the equally not good enough Lindelof. The jury is out.

 

[arthurka]

Neither do his teammates and that generally causes havoc whenever he plays.

And of course the reason his teammates and the opposition have no idea what Eric will do at any point. Is largely because i think Eric himself has no clue what he is going to do at any given time. Which is why he throws himself into so many reckless tackles and acrobatic clearances/blocks.

He's just not a good defender, in fact theres enough evidence now to suggest he's actually a bad one.

Agree.

 

[POF]

Reading the above critiques, those blaming Bailly for the 4th goal are being incredibly harsh.

Shaw left a huge yawning gap at the near post for Son to run into and Son ran off Matic to get into it, not Bailly. There were at least 3 of his teammates far more to blame for that goal than Bailly.

There are plenty of other mistakes to genuinely blame him for without inventing some.

 

[Foxbatt]

Neither do his teammates and that generally causes havoc whenever he plays.

And of course the reason his teammates and the opposition have no idea what Eric will do at any point. Is largely because i think Eric himself has no clue what he is going to do at any given time. Which is why he throws himself into so many reckless tackles and acrobatic clearances/blocks.

He's just not a good defender, in fact theres enough evidence now to suggest he's actually a bad one.

You have very eloquently put it. He himself doesn't know what he is going to do next. People blaming Maguire for the Son goal should look at it realistically. Should he have taken the ball from Kane and held it? If he had it then yes. Should he have taken a yellow card for it? In hindsight he would have but I do not think he ever thought Bailly was going to go to sleep just because the ball is dead. This is the cause of the goal and not because he did not stop the free kick.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

You have very eloquently put it. He himself doesn't know what he is going to do next. People blaming Maguire for the Son goal should look at it realistically. Should he have taken the ball from Kane and held it? If he had it then yes. Should he have taken a yellow card for it? In hindsight he would have but I do not think he ever thought Bailly was going to go to sleep just because the ball is dead. This is the cause of the goal and not because he did not stop the free kick.

I think that they're both equally at fault for the Kane-Son freekick goal because they both commit the same offence of not being alert to the quick free-kick.

 

[Foxbatt]

I think that they're both equally at fault for the Kane-Son freekick goal because they both commit the same offence of not being alert to the quick free-kick.

Maguire was diabolical that game but having watched it time and again I see that there is nothing much he can do about it, Kane had the ball and he was going to take it no matter what. The space was there behind Maguire no matter what. If it was his mistake it was being dragged out of position with Kane and fouling him. If you go frame by frame you can see that when Kane gets the ball, Son has AWB and Bailly and Maguire goal side of him. When Kane controls the ball Son is already moving past AWB. Maguire is attached to Kane and Bailly is looking at Kane too and so is AWB. As Kane controls is AWB is moving towards Kane and Son starts his run between Bailly and AWB who is moving towards Kane. As Kane falls on the ball, AWB is fairly near him now. But Bailly has switched off completely as the referee blows the whistle. Shaw in the mean time has not stepped up and Son has already moved passed upto Bailly by then. AWB tried to stop Kane as Kane had fallen down facing AWB and Kane passed the ball between AWB and Maguire into the space behind Bailly to Son who raced away. I do not think there is much Maguire can do to stop it unless he wrestles with Kane because Kane fell on the ball and he had the ball all the time. Check at 0643 and you can see that Son is already away and Kane has not even kicked the ball but Bailly has stopped and was pointing at something. As soon as Son started moving past AWB Bailly should have been on his bike.