[MadDogg]

Its a black player stereotype and it doesn't even apply to Bailly as he doesn't exclusively lean on his physicality.

The guy you responded to went overboard, but there is some element of truth in what he said. Bailly is probably our best on the ball (other than maybe Lindelof who we haven't really been able to get a gauge on yet), but in terms of defending he does rely heavily on his physicality and explosiveness to get himself out of trouble at times. On the one hand that's dangerous as it does show a limitation, but on the other if he can improve his positioning and defensive reading of the game and add that to his fantastic pace and power it means the sky is the limit. The question is whether that will happen or not.

It's not just a 'race' thing. Two of our youngsters are an example. Fosu-Mensah and Tuanzebe. Both very good physically, but Fosu-Mensah seems to rely on that physicality much more than Tuanzebe does. It's hardly a black player stereotype there; it's just the way they play.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

The low IQ criticism is most likely a reactionary evaluation of him due to him following Sterling round like a lost puppy in the first half on Saturday. That resulted in our defence parting like the Red Sea and City going through it like a knife through hot butter.

I said in the match day thread that it must have been tactical from the management. I can't think why a centre back would be following a player back into their own half of their own volition.

 

[T A]

I’m still waiting the first time Bailly and Lindelof start alongside together but it seems that both of them have the same position awareness problem hence Jose’s decision not to pair them up

 

[AP88]

That's a black player stereotype. Bailly is our best ball playing CB and the most technically astute one as well, you can tell he was groomed in Spain in his youth. He simply needs more polishing. I believe this is only his third season as a first team player in his career thus far.

Nope - Sergio Ramos fits into the exact same category as a chaotic, reactionary defender.

Being technically astute means absolutely nothing with regards to football intellect - football IQ is primarily what you do without the ball, especially as a defender.

 

[Bobski]

Bailly being bad in the air is strange. He has an excellent spring, just god awful timing.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Nope - Sergio Ramos fits into the exact same category as a chaotic, reactionary defender.

Being technically astute means absolutely nothing with regards to football intellect - football IQ is primarily what you do without the ball, especially as a defender.

Ramos is one of the best defenders of his generation so I'm not quite getting your point?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Bailly being bad in the air is strange. He has an excellent spring, just god awful timing.

He also does that turtle head thing, I made a thread about it last season. It's like his head actually goes back inside his body when he jumps for a header.

Odd.

 

[AP88]

Ramos is one of the best defenders of his generation so I'm not quite getting your point?

The fact he’s regarded as such underlines my point - a decade ago he was a fullback, because such ball-chasing, chaotic ‘defending’ wasn’t trusted or championed in the way it is by the FIFA generation of fanboys.

 

[A-man]

The fact he’s regarded as such underlines my point - a decade ago he was a fullback, because such ball-chasing, chaotic ‘defending’ wasn’t trusted or championed in the way it is by the FIFA generation of fanboys.

I don't really see how Ramos (2018) is a ball-chasing and chaotic defender. He is often well positioned, good with his feet, holds on well to the ball, etc. He totally dominated PSG in the first match. And not by creating any chaos or ball-chasing.
The main difference in Ramos way of playing and a world-class CB ten years ago, is that he also has the offensive skills to win important matches.

I don't understand what you mean by calling people who rate him highly, such as his coaches - now Zidane - FIFA generation of fanboys?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The fact he’s regarded as such underlines my point - a decade ago he was a fullback, because such ball-chasing, chaotic ‘defending’ wasn’t trusted or championed in the way it is by the FIFA generation of fanboys.

ha ha! #clueless

I'm nearly 40 mate, haven't played any footy game since International Superstar Soccer in the 90's. Ramos is quite clearly top top drawer and to describe him as a "ball-chasing, chaotic defender" is just beyond belief.

 

[Loublaze]

Nope - Sergio Ramos fits into the exact same category as a chaotic, reactionary defender.

Being technically astute means absolutely nothing with regards to football intellect - football IQ is primarily what you do without the ball, especially as a defender.

You're dead wrong. Chaotic and reactionary does not equal low intellect and an exclusive dependence on physicality. Ramos is much more than what you're labeling him. Try telling anyone that Ramos exclusively uses physicality to hide his apparent lack of a football brain and they'll laugh at you. Ramos is widely considered an elite player. Look, a well known stereotype is a well know stereotype, it's what it is.

 

[Garethw]

I don’t get why this guy is so rated on here.

 

[Red_toad]

I don’t get why this guy is so rated on here.

As prior to his injuries he was a very capable defender, who's only real issue was a weakness in the air.

 

[MadDogg]

I don’t get why this guy is so rated on here.

When he's good, he's very good. He's just been very inconsistent as well (both in terms of form and fitness). The question is whether he can improve that consistency or not.

 

[Lawman]

As prior to his injuries he was a very capable defender, who's only real issue was a weakness in the air.

No he’s less than poor at setting himself and defending the front post ball. Been impressed with his attributes though and hopefully keeps improving as could be a monster of a player for us.

 

[JJ12]

I don’t get why this guy is so rated on here.

I’d be surprised if it’s only people on here that rate him. He’s a very good player and still not the finished article.

 

[Red_toad]

Good job he’s not as highly rated as Pogba or Martial or we’d have endless speculation about him and people harping in about Jose’ agenda against him!

 

[Canagel]

I don’t get why this guy is so rated on here.

Because he has the most potential of all our defenders. He can do everything you want in a CB. Only thing lacking is anticipation but that comes with experience. With the right development he has the potential to be one of the top 3 defenders in the World. Something the other defenders don't have the potential of doing. It's natural for fans to want to see that progress on the pitch.

 

[Trizy]

I don’t get why this guy is so rated on here.

He's a beast. Great on the ball, great passing ability, quick, strong as an ox, great tackler, body on the line defender.

Admittedly, he's very off form since his injury. Being terrible in the air is also overstated on here. It's not he's strong point but he's also not terrible in the air.

 

[Rossa]

I don’t get why this guy is so rated on here.

Well, he has some stand out attributes. I talked to a Liverpool supporter where we discussed Manolas, and he said Manolas was rapid, almost as fast as Bailly, but he was frickin lightning. People notice him because of his speed, his athleticism and his last ditch tackles. These things he does very well. Him not being dominant in the air is not noticed as much, nor do they notice that his positioning is often off as he usually catches whomever anyways, which looks more spectacular.

 

[Rossa]

He's a beast. Great on the ball, great passing ability, quick, strong as an ox, great tackler, body on the line defender.

Admittedly, he's very off form since his injury. Being terrible in the air is also overstated on here. It's not he's strong point but he's also not terrible in the air.

For a centre back, I would say he is well below average in the air. He has the size and the leap to remedy that.

 

[Garethw]

What is going on with this guy?

 

[J-Stander]

Waste of time this fella.

 

[Andycoleno9]

2 weeks ago he was our best defender. Now not on the bench even. What the hell is going on here? Any info why hecwas not on the bench today?

 

[Garethw]

I don’t think he has the trust of the manager.

 

[pascell]

People need to calm down a bit, he's had some long injury lay offs this season. We're best making sure he doesn't have any reoccurance of those injuries and is fully over them, it'll benefit both the player and ourselves in the long run.

 

[podurban2]

Very unfair to jusge him after his injury concerns. Give him a full summer and he’ll be ready for next season.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

2 weeks ago he was our best defender. Now not on the bench even. What the hell is going on here? Any info why hecwas not on the bench today?

This happens with all our centre backs. When one plays well their champions are out in force and when one plays badly their detractors come to dinner. It is because all our centre backs are good but flawed in one way or another.

 

[CA1]

I don't think he was injured. He was with the squad that travelled to London to train at Fulham after Bournmeouth. On the tunnel cam from yesterday he was with the players walking through.

I think he just wasn't picked to be honest.

I was surprised Darmian and Lindelof were on the bench ahead of Bailly and Rojo.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Apparently Mkhitaryan has played 6 more games for United this season than Eric has.

 

[Bubz27]

Maybe he's been dropped because he kept following Sterling half way up the pitch and leaving huge gaps in the centre of the defence against City in the first half?

 

[Giggsy92]

Don't think he can have too many complaints about being 4th in the current pecking order, he's been pretty shaky since coming back from injury. Hopefully next season will be a different story.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I agree with many of the posts here. I absolutely love Bailly as a player and I think he absolutely has all the attributes required of a top CB; pace, power, passing and aggression. However, he simply has to show that more often next season. I firmly believe we have a potential world class CB here but he desperately needs a consistent run of games over a longer period of time. I think with gametime, many of the mistakes in his game would be ironed out. The question is, will he actually stay injury free long enough to get that run.

 

[charlenefan]

Seems he's the latest being tested by Jose, not involved again today

 

[Minimalist]

Is he injured or not?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Seems he's the latest being tested by Jose, not involved again today

Not so sure it's testing, just that Mourinho is no doubt getting fed up of his injury issues and rather than always throwing him straight back in when fit, he wants to try a different approach and let him prove his fitness for a while first.

 

[Adisa]

Been sent to the Gulag.

 

[Zoo]

He was ill last week.

 

[charlenefan]

He was ill last week.

Really? Jose has repeatedly only ever mentioned Romero as someone missing squads due to not being available

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Hopefully he gets a few games before the season's end but next season is crucial for him. He's regressed this year, partly due to consistent injuries stalling his season.