Sheffield for me is more painful
EPL Title Race 20/21
- Thread starter horsechoker
- Start date
Oh yes, SU. I forgot on that. Damn....
City 74p (max 92)
Dortmund (A)
Chelsea (N)
Villa (A)
Spurs (N)
CL semi (Bayern/Paris)
Palace (A)
CL semi (Bayern/Paris)
Chelsea (H)
Newcastle (A)
FAC final
Brighton (A)
Everton (H)
United 63p (max 84)
Granada (H)
Burnley (H)
Leeds (A)
EL semi (Roma/Ajax)
Pool (H)
EL semi (Roma/Ajax)
Villa (A)
Leicester (H)
Fulham (H)
Wolves (A)
+ We have the form. 4 wins in a row.
+ 2 conceded in the last 6.
+ Pogba back to full fitness. Greenwood finding his usual late season form. Cavani's confidence returning.
+ Granada should be a stroll in the park (night off for several suspended players). Next midweek is our first midweek off all season. These two weeks is an excellent opportunity to recharge the batteries for the final month.
+ City can't go full strength in every game with that packed schedule. They rested a couple of players last game and got schooled by 10 man Leeds.
- We need to win the remaining 7 games and make it 11 in a row. The issue is we play 11v12 most weeks so we're bound to get game fecked at some point. We managed to turn it around against the extra man on Sunday but we're not good enough to withstand that kind of pressure every week.
- City even when they're rubbish they get bailed out by the refs. Offside goal vs Villa which gifted them 3 points. Opponents get sent off for trying to win the ball against them. Meanwhile the thug Fernandinho gets nothing for assaulting opponents and making no attempt to play the ball. Stuff like that turns a lot of draws/losses into wins over the season.
United 7 wins = 84 points
City 3 wins, 3 losses (or 2 wins, 3 draws, 1 loss) = 83 points
It's a shame we don't play Southampton again, that would have sorted us out GD wise.
Dortmund (A)
Chelsea (N)
Villa (A)
Spurs (N)
CL semi (Bayern/Paris)
Palace (A)
CL semi (Bayern/Paris)
Chelsea (H)
Newcastle (A)
FAC final
Brighton (A)
Everton (H)
United 63p (max 84)
Granada (H)
Burnley (H)
Leeds (A)
EL semi (Roma/Ajax)
Pool (H)
EL semi (Roma/Ajax)
Villa (A)
Leicester (H)
Fulham (H)
Wolves (A)
+ We have the form. 4 wins in a row.
+ 2 conceded in the last 6.
+ Pogba back to full fitness. Greenwood finding his usual late season form. Cavani's confidence returning.
+ Granada should be a stroll in the park (night off for several suspended players). Next midweek is our first midweek off all season. These two weeks is an excellent opportunity to recharge the batteries for the final month.
+ City can't go full strength in every game with that packed schedule. They rested a couple of players last game and got schooled by 10 man Leeds.
- We need to win the remaining 7 games and make it 11 in a row. The issue is we play 11v12 most weeks so we're bound to get game fecked at some point. We managed to turn it around against the extra man on Sunday but we're not good enough to withstand that kind of pressure every week.
- City even when they're rubbish they get bailed out by the refs. Offside goal vs Villa which gifted them 3 points. Opponents get sent off for trying to win the ball against them. Meanwhile the thug Fernandinho gets nothing for assaulting opponents and making no attempt to play the ball. Stuff like that turns a lot of draws/losses into wins over the season.
United 7 wins = 84 points
City 3 wins, 3 losses (or 2 wins, 3 draws, 1 loss) = 83 points
It's a shame we don't play Southampton again, that would have sorted us out GD wise.
Man Utd are winning the league until it is mathematically impossible as far as I'm concerned.
Pl would be so fun without oil money and bending FFP rules. Every year title race would be fun until last day.
No way it happens but how sweet would it be. . .
If it is any other club i would believe. But City is just bloody dominant. They don't lose points because they were bad or overplayed, it is "just one of those days". fecking City
I don't see us winning it but it would still be nice to cut it down to within 2-4 points.
Imagining that we would win all 7 is purposely punishing yourself. Normally, after such a great win, we follow it up with a tame PL performance and/or result. Please don't do it to yourself guys.
It nearly pisses me off that we are kind of close.
I know that sounds insane but my reasoning is that we wasted last summer completely in terms of improving the 11 for this season. Only Cavani has really contributed to the season in any way at all.
If we had had an ounce of ambition we could easily be that much closer. And let's be honest this seasons points tally is probably going to be lower than next. This was a really good chance to truly compete.
Hell both Liverpool and City added more players to their starting 11. And even though Liverpool are doing shit I'd still say their summer was Much better than ours.
I know that sounds insane but my reasoning is that we wasted last summer completely in terms of improving the 11 for this season. Only Cavani has really contributed to the season in any way at all.
If we had had an ounce of ambition we could easily be that much closer. And let's be honest this seasons points tally is probably going to be lower than next. This was a really good chance to truly compete.
Hell both Liverpool and City added more players to their starting 11. And even though Liverpool are doing shit I'd still say their summer was Much better than ours.
Completely agree. We were top in January, and it just seemed as if we lost the bottle. Then there’s been games where we’ve looked incredibly cowardly and allowed smaller teams bully us. It’s a massive shame. There’s games that scream “should have attacked more”.
It’s a fools hope, but I still can’t help feel an ounce of excitement if Villa get at least a draw against them on the weekend. In theory we need City to stay in the CL and then lose in the final - that would be the most ideal scenario.
Doubt it. From 1992 until Chelsea won it in 2005 only 3 titles were decided on the last day of the season. Oil money hasn't done anything to make title races worse, it's just that no two top teams have been able to be great in one and the same season since forever.
Losing Pogba was the biggest reason we dropped off as much as we did imo.
That said the drop off was avoidable if we invested properly in the summer.
Personally I think our summer was absolutely terrible all things considered. It was truly ambitionless and devoid of planning. All the eggs in the Sancho basket and then get no one for the first 11 at all. Madness
Am not counting Diallo and Pellistri in that as they where not signed to help us now.
City have 6 games left, let's say they lose 1 and draw 2 - that would mean they got 11 points out of 18, which makes total of 85 points, mathematically impossible for us to catch them. And they won't win only 3 of their last 6, they'll win at least 4 (probably 5).
This is why EL is such a hinderance unless it's your only way into the CL.
There's extra games which immediately make it harder and we've dropped a lot of points/lost games after EL games (Chelsea, Palace, Leicester in the Cup). I think we lost to Sheffield United after a cup game as well. It's an issue the CL teams face, with the caveat that the CL is the pinnacle of European competition and so it's worth the trade off whereas for us, comfortably top four, I really don't think it is. Granada are so poor we're essentially in the semis but is the EL worth it? We're too far off for a title challenge now but stranger things have happened and I'd still rather push City close/finish within a handful of points to them than finish 10+ points off and win the EL.
There's extra games which immediately make it harder and we've dropped a lot of points/lost games after EL games (Chelsea, Palace, Leicester in the Cup). I think we lost to Sheffield United after a cup game as well. It's an issue the CL teams face, with the caveat that the CL is the pinnacle of European competition and so it's worth the trade off whereas for us, comfortably top four, I really don't think it is. Granada are so poor we're essentially in the semis but is the EL worth it? We're too far off for a title challenge now but stranger things have happened and I'd still rather push City close/finish within a handful of points to them than finish 10+ points off and win the EL.
Let's just hope they'll win it by more than two points.
My worry is that Villa without Graelish and Trezeguet might not have enough to bother them, but yes, we want them to feel the pressure of having to prioritize between the CL or the League.
We have no choice for this year, but I seriously think that next year we will qualify for the 2nd round of the CL because there is no way we end up being in the same difficult group. Also, it would be good to guarantee top seed next year just to simplify the matter even more by winning the EL. Once we start qualifying again to the CL 2nd round, the issue of the EL will stop being one for us, again.
Your group was average CL quality, nothing out of the extraordinary. We beat Leipzig twice without conceding a goal without even playing well. Not to mention you'd have easily qualified too if you hadn't lost against a Turkish first time CL team.
Agree with your point though, just start qualifying for the CL knock-out stages again and either you can fully focus on the league as from March or you'll be deep in the CL, both good options.
Our group wasn't difficult, we just absolutely bottled it. Forget the RBL result, we lost to Istanbul.
I just think EL is real waste of time if you're in the CL, the seeding system used to matter more but there aren't many amazing European clubs around right now, I think Bayern will go through, Chelsea are basically through, City should go through and then Real versus Liverpool is like a battle of the crocks but would we really fear anyone apart from Bayern (we can't be drawn with City, Pool or Chelsea obviously)?
Look at Serie A. AC Milan were top around Christmas and dropped so many points around their EL ties, Inter were awful in the CL and so avoided being dropped in the EL altogether, since then, have basically won Serie A.
True, if you can easily beat them then they gotta be quite average.
Has to be exhausting being so petty that you can't let it pass that someone "criticizes" your team. Wasn't even meant as a dig at Utd, it's the truth.
That sort of gap is what inspired Liverpool players the following season, would be an amazing motivator.
Christ I thought scousers could take a joke?
Sorry I should have included a green smiley or white text to convey the joke.
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Was it?
PSG were the previous season's finalists and Leipzig were the previous season's semi-finalists. The latter was also hovering near (if not actually) top of the Bundesliga during that time as well. Compared to the other groups, I'd argue that it was a much, much tougher group than all but the Real, Inter, Shakhtar, Monchengladbach one.
And when we compare it to Liverpool's in 2019 (PSG, Red Star, Napoli), In terms of the other groups that were drawn this year, it really was much tougher than the others (the Real one being the exception).
PSG/Napoli > PSG>Leipzig for me (debatable though probably), and I didn't consider our 2019 group a particularly tough one either. You get good teams in the CL, that's no surprise, but you did really bottle it yourself rather than the opposition being too hard to qualify against.
There were quite a few tougher groups than yours this year but only because the team out of pot B was better than Utd in that case (Atlético and Barcelona for example). Looking from Utd's perspective, you might consider your group tougher because Leipzig was probably the third toughest pot C team you could've drawn (after Inter and Atalanta, maybe Lazio too).
My point was just that the original post I quoted made it sound like you were in some sort of group of death this year while imo you weren't at all. It is very possible that next season you'll end up in a group as difficult as this year.
I disagree. Napoli were never seen to be on the level of the Leipzig we have now or last season, especially after Sarri left them. That 2019 CL group was also one that you barely scraped by in after losing to each of the three teams you faced. Our goals for and against record was much superior than yours too but because of the H2H rule, you guys got through and we got left behind. I agree it was a feck up from where we were after the first two games, but at the outset not many gave us a prayer of going through.
I also disagree with the Barca example you gave: Juve and Barca were the two clear best teams in the group. Likewise Bayern and Atleti were the two clear favourites in the group too. With ours, there was one clear favourite (PSG) and two teams who were on a similar level.
A group of death? Maybe not, but it was easily seen as the most competitive out of all the others at the outset. It's only because Real almost shat the bed in the early stages, and Inter actually did shit in their bed, that theirs was on a knife-edge. Otherwise if both teams played to their potential, it would have been a Real, Inter 1, 2.
Our group was average CL quality when you have the finalist and a semi finalist in the f***** group and everyone was telling us we will never make it? Ok, bye Mr. low level troll.
For sure, that time you won it by 18 points and all those times you won by 7+ went right to the last day...
What you're really trying to say is "pl would be so fun without oil money and bending ffp rules. We'd have another couple of titles."
Oil money has seen the title won on goal difference, 1 and 2 pts in 3 if it's 4 titles. Uniteds average pts winning margin is bigger than both Chelsea's and Cities.
And last season caffeine beat it by 20 pts
What is a Liverpool fan doing in this thread? Especially one that rarely watches football ffs
I'll start to have a glimour of hope if Villa beat them at the weekend. If they pick up 3 points there you're asking them to lose more than 50% of their remaining games which just isn't going to happen, nevermind the fact we'd have to win all of ours.
Still a much more positive season this time around, and that with minimal investment in the summer window.
Couple more additions this summer to allow a deeper 1st 11 and we should be able to challenge next season.
Still a much more positive season this time around, and that with minimal investment in the summer window.
Couple more additions this summer to allow a deeper 1st 11 and we should be able to challenge next season.
You are laughing but I agree. Post facto you may say it was not a difficult group but at the time of the draw the consensus was that that particular group was (one of) the group of death. Of course United threw away the advantage of two great victories so the blame lies with us only but to start with, most people predicted United will not make it.
I will not go in all this comparism who had tougher grout but bolded part i just can't accept.
Leipzig is a good team but against them we are and we were favourites. Not just because "we are giant Man Utd and they are "just" Leipzig. Purely because we have better team. Much better team. Why "most people" predicted that we will fail is for another topic
A group with PSG, United, and Leipzig is far from average.
Us and Leipzig would be favorites to beat Chelsea and Porto. Poor troll
Could've sworn I had posted in the thread following the group stage draw but can't find a post of mine in there, must've been the Milan draw where I also had you as firm favourites while half the forum was losing the plot because once again you had the "toughest draw possible". But I fully agree with @Andycoleno9 here. It wasn't even about whether it was a tough group or not for me, just the comment that struck me as odd that you couldn't possibly have a group "as tough as this year" next season. You very well can because it's a standard CL group stage as far as I'm concerned, but fair enough if you disagree on that. Like I said, there could've been two, three, possibly four teams out of pot C paired with Utd that could've made it a tougher group. It's not because Leipzig make a CL semi once that they're suddenly a tough draw or a European powerhouse.
Bayern, Atlético, Salzburg
Real, Gladbach, Inter (and Shaktar)
Juventus, Barca, Kiev
All trio's that, on average, I'd consider stronger or at in the same bracket as yours. And like you can read above, fair enough if you even think it was harder than average, it's certainly easily possible you'll have as "hard" a group as this year.
Yeah and if only we had approached the second half of the Arsenal & Scousers away games like we did on Sun then maybe we would have taken more than 2 points out of those, maybe then we would have gotten away with the chucked points against Everton & Leicester and that shocker against Sheff Utd as well.
This is the type of game that has cost us this year.
We really lack a bit of ruthlessness, especially if some of our starters are out (or on the bench).
Ole's passiveness with subs doesn't help either.
City need just 6 points from their last 5 games, surely they'll throw everything at the CL now.
We really lack a bit of ruthlessness, especially if some of our starters are out (or on the bench).
Ole's passiveness with subs doesn't help either.
City need just 6 points from their last 5 games, surely they'll throw everything at the CL now.
It was over long before today, midweek is the bigger game hence the rest for Cavani and Pogba
I'll happily take the stick if I turn out to be wrong but I feel you need a new man to take the next step up for the title.
Ole reminds me similar to Ranieri's spell with us, achieved a decent level of consistency but the team seemed to have a mental block when the trophy's were on the line.