I like what I have seen from Tom Davies. Obviously not good enough to be a starter for United yet but he's a fantastic prospect and I hope he ends at United at some point.
English Players
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
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I would add Tomori, T Chalobah, Gheui, Gomes, Clarke-Salter, Hudson Odoi. Steve Sessegnon, Ryan's twin, is also very highly rated.
The youth sides are stacked at the moment, hence the success. @khoazany says the u15s are another top group too.
Thats a load of tosh. Some people are influenced by the media, obvious, but most people I know or who following football passionately are able to form an opinion of a player without the guidance of The Sun.
And if you don't think Rashford will be a superb playing in the very near future you're barmy.
There's only 3 I really rate and they all play for Spurs or Liverpool, unfortunately. Sturridge would be some player if he could stay fit, and England would have an excellent strike force in him and Kane. Alli really impressed me last season too.
Chile is one of the best NTs in the world and you think they're defense, goalkeeper or midfield looks great on paper? Would more than two of them get into the England NT?
The defense is far from shit and as a whole probably one of the best thing about them. Since the Euros they've ditched Hodgson and Rooney and gotten a better Kane and Alli and Rashford. The biggest weakness apart from that missing MC is their inexperience.
Yeah, probably. Just because they arent as popular doesnt mean they are worse. Bravo, Vargas, Sanchez, Vidal would most likely get in.
Sterling - Very good. Would have him at United but he's at City = Is this a joke? He's got worse at City, showed no improvement since he was at Liverpool and if anything is more inconsistent. Has talent yes, but not an elite player
Lallana - Again, very good. At Liverpool. = Would class his as a good premier league player. Nothing more. Late 20's before he moved to a big club, done nothing of note there
Lingard - Got him = Got him but if he was at another cub would we desperately want to sign him? No. Average player.
Rashford - Got him = lots of potential. With right game time/management can be up there as a leading prem striker
Welbeck - Would have him back at United. Actually, I reckon he could do the 'Perisic' role Jose is looking for. Up and down the left wing. Obviously he's at Arsenal, though. = Wow. A striker being deployed in a wing back role. Makes sense. No chance
Oxlade-Chamberlain - Much better as a centre midfielder, in my opinion. Average as a winger. = unproven as a cm and inconsistent on the wing. Not an elite signing
Walcott - Not good enough. Does get his fair share of goals, though. = Agree. Not good enough
Up and coming talents:
Redmond - Good player. Needs to progress further, but someone we could look at = Average premier league talent. has ability, but not elite level
Demari Gray - Same as Redmond. Showing potential, but needs to progress = See above
Roberts - At City, so no point. However, showing tremendous promise = Has talent, unproven. Didn't set the world alight at Celtic which is a poor league. Scott Sinclair looked better, and we all know how good he was in the prem
Lookman - Fantastic in the U20's world cup. Needs more games, but someone worth looking at. = Looks promising, is raw
Ojo - Showing promise. At Liverpool, though. = Not seen anything of him, got no game time when Woodburn did so maybe that's an indication of his level.
England have very very few elite level players. Kane and Alli for sure, couple of maybe's in there like Rashford, Sterling, Stones. Its very grim. Barcelona/Real/Juve/Bayern wouldn't be in for any English players, they simply aren't good enough
To be fair that is a very poor up and coming list. I'm not that hot on any of those players. I wouldn't put any of them anywhere near the top of England's best up and coming players.
England have players like Mount, Gomes and Sancho coming through who are among the very best in the world in their age groups, however.
Is it really a surprise the level of young English players is quite low bar the odd exception when you look at how the game is run in this country.
We demand instant success, pump millions into foreign managers who in turn rely on heavily investing in foreign players. Little to no effort goes into academies and when there is young home grown talent, clubs opt to sign a more expensive foreign option instead (ala loftus cheek/chalobah farmed out, 40mil bakayoko in etc etc).
Hardly any Home grown managers/Coaches, no long term development of home grown players. We are littered with Foreign managers/coaches/players right from the prem to league 2. Home grown players hardly stand a chance to breakthrough and every mistake is highlighted much more than foreign players.
I cant think of many examples where home grown talent is preferred over a fancy foreign signing
We demand instant success, pump millions into foreign managers who in turn rely on heavily investing in foreign players. Little to no effort goes into academies and when there is young home grown talent, clubs opt to sign a more expensive foreign option instead (ala loftus cheek/chalobah farmed out, 40mil bakayoko in etc etc).
Hardly any Home grown managers/Coaches, no long term development of home grown players. We are littered with Foreign managers/coaches/players right from the prem to league 2. Home grown players hardly stand a chance to breakthrough and every mistake is highlighted much more than foreign players.
I cant think of many examples where home grown talent is preferred over a fancy foreign signing
Agreed. Tom Davies and Lewis Gibson are both highly rated as well, the latter of whom got a 6m transfer to Everton. The issue these players will have is that most will fail to get reasonable playing time at senior level and so their development will stall.
But we have a significant amount of teenage players coming through with real potential. Actually exciting for a change.
The thing is that the youth system has got a lot better recently. Chelsea have arguably the best academy in the world currently. The won back to back youth Champions League titles recently and contributed lots of players to the England sides that won the u20 World Cup, the u19 European Championships, the Toulon Tournament and reached the the final of the u17 Euros this summer.
The current England side is weak but there is lots to be positive about regarding the players in the 15 - 20 age bracket at the moment.
It will be a test to see if we can get these lads playing in the seniors regularly but I'm hopeful as we haven't have this level of talent in a long time.
No world class players at this point.
Potentially world class: Kane, Alli, Rashford
Currently top class: Kane, Alli, Rose
Decent: Cahill, Sterling, Walker, Chamberlain, Smalling, Vardy, Shaw, Dier
Average: the rest
Potentially world class: Kane, Alli, Rashford
Currently top class: Kane, Alli, Rose
Decent: Cahill, Sterling, Walker, Chamberlain, Smalling, Vardy, Shaw, Dier
Average: the rest
All I can say is that when you have Livermore anywhere near your squad nevermind actually in the side you have SERIOUS problems. Where have all the English midfielders gone? You have some top quality attacking players but outside of that there are big gaps in quality - primarily in central defence, keeper (if you persist with Hart) and as I've said you don't have any quality at all in the midfield.
Looking at the young english prospects coming through again there seems to be an imbalance towards attacking players in terms of quality which is all well and good but without a solid defence and a high quality midfield you aint going to do much. I've said it before but Winks looks like he could become an important player for England in the future if he continues to develop mainly because he is a pure midfielder who is tidy and could be very good.
Looking at the young english prospects coming through again there seems to be an imbalance towards attacking players in terms of quality which is all well and good but without a solid defence and a high quality midfield you aint going to do much. I've said it before but Winks looks like he could become an important player for England in the future if he continues to develop mainly because he is a pure midfielder who is tidy and could be very good.
Showing signs of being a footballer capable of playing for everton, another who I hope isn't hyped too young. They have a good group of young players though.
That's just wingers. However, like I said, I think people go overboard when it comes to England.
What other countries are producing top, top talent, who are genuinely going to be world class?
A lot of foreign players are overrated. Start well, show lots of promise, then fall off. This doesn't just happend with English players.
There aren't some excellent talents - Kane is a top tier striker, Alli an excellent midfielder. Then the likes of Sterling, Rose and Walker are all good. I would have taken Dier if we hadn't signed Matic also.
On our end Rashford's very good. I don't see why he can't be of a similar level to Lukaku, perhaps that's wishful thinking. Lukaku is very effective, though he's probably reached his ceiling. Rashford has room for growth. Lingard's acceptable as a squad player. Carrick's on his last legs. I like Smalling, more than Jones, but one is likely to give way. And I also wouldn't give up on shaw just yet.
There aren't any established English stars I'd want here though. Kane is better than Lukaku but we have the latter now, while Alli and Pogba are too similar and their styles would clash IMO. Sterling and Walker are obviously no-goes and we should persist with Shaw, so no to Rose or Bertrand.
On our end Rashford's very good. I don't see why he can't be of a similar level to Lukaku, perhaps that's wishful thinking. Lukaku is very effective, though he's probably reached his ceiling. Rashford has room for growth. Lingard's acceptable as a squad player. Carrick's on his last legs. I like Smalling, more than Jones, but one is likely to give way. And I also wouldn't give up on shaw just yet.
There aren't any established English stars I'd want here though. Kane is better than Lukaku but we have the latter now, while Alli and Pogba are too similar and their styles would clash IMO. Sterling and Walker are obviously no-goes and we should persist with Shaw, so no to Rose or Bertrand.
I'd snap your hands off for Rose or Bertrand. One thing England has is a great depth of fullbacks.
@Walters_19_MuFc I think you're overrating a lot of bang average players there mate.
Chelsea's academy is the biggest joke in Football. Not one player since JT has made it from the academy to be anywhere near the Chelsea 1st team. They are all continually loaned out or sold, and the 1st team spends millions revamping the squad every couple of years. There may be talent there, but it is never utilised.
Who am I overrating?
Really? Are all those players you mentioned, what you would describe as quality players? I mean Lingard and Welbeck, really?
It really isn't the biggest joke in football. The vast majority of the players that have been a part of their recent success are only just coming up to the age of being first team players for a top side. Loftus-Cheek progress has been disappointing but he is still only 21. Hopefully he kicks on this season at Palace. We will see in the next 3-5 years if there is some sort of major problem with them bringing through talent.
Re Chelsea, other clubs can always make an offer. Newcastle recently bought Christian Atsu for £6m. Bournemouth recently bought Nathan Ake from Chelsea for £20m. This would suggest some will be successes. It is just they cannot hold down a place in their own clubs first 11 that is challenging for titles.
No, from the generation of 97 to the others who are coming it's a question of time untill your NT results in tournaments improve.
Not now, but for the future Tom Davies from Everton or Tammy Abraham who is loaned to Swansea from Chelsea look good prospects.
No, which means you clearly didn't ready my post before commenting.
No its poor youth development and youth participation at the grass roots level which means we have a smaller pool to develop players from. theres very little money invested on a national level on providing facilities or coaching staff for kids even in schools. Only a comparatively small percentage of the population are actively encouraged to participate, usually by their parents. The government and the FA do somewhere between very little and nothing.
Don't think Bravo is better than Heaton or Hart and Vargas plays in Mexico after having been a bit-part player for QPR. Don't think he has any merit to play for England. Sánchez and Vidal would obviously get in and even more so considering they play in the two positions that are the weakest in England's lineup.
Well I did. It seems you're scraping the bottom of the barrel for English 'talents'. TBH, not being English and all, I can say that from my perspective, the English players at the moment are generally pretty poor. When people resort to hyping the likes of Lallana, Henderson and Welbeck, that says it all.
Butland -
Dier -
Rose/Bertrand -
Keane -
Barkley -
Kane -
Sterling -
Oxlade-Chamberlain -
with the exception of Ali not one of them would be good enough to play for man utd or indeed any of europes top teams , ever see kane linked with any of the big european teams ??? . ever wonder why ???
Bar Kane all of them are shiite, in fact i would rate Kane as good but can't see him being world class unless he leaves Spurs within the next year.
Btw can't believe people have suggested Smalling and Lingard as being average, both are dogshit!
Btw can't believe people have suggested Smalling and Lingard as being average, both are dogshit!
Bravo most likely is though, you do know he was the one who made Hart leave, not that he was that convincing. Dont just look where he plays, look how he plays, watch footage. He is much better than any wide forward for England, in terms of international football though. He has been a standout for Chili for some time, two times Copa America winner.
Well, first of all, I put all the wingers I could think of, as that's the position I feel we need, hence why the likes of Alli, Kane, Henderson, etc, are not on there.
Not one have I overrated any of them. Put a brief review of what I thought of them. Can't remember me saying any of these players were world class.
Actually, the best winger on there I probably Raheem Sterling, who I would most likely have at United, but he's obviously at City.
Based on what? Lindelof was the starting CB in a title winning Benfica side while Keane was the starting CB in a team that nearly got relegated. I like Keane but Lindelof is the better player imo.
As for Butland being a long term replacement for DDG. Not a chance. We have a young GK in Joel Pereira who I reckon will turn out to be a much better GK than Butland.
Such a weird conclusion. Alli was in a league two side while Cleverley played for Man Utd, sorry but Cleverley was clearly the better player.
Except England has arguably the best youth players in the world. The problem isn't at youth level.
Do you think that would have changed had Lindelof been with Burnley?
Based on what?
This. Doesnt work like that.
I'm basing it on what I've seen of both Lindelof and Keane. Both are good young centre backs and I would've liked us to sign both of them but I feel Lindelof is the better player and so does Jose hence why we dropped the Keane interest and just went for Lindelof.
You're joking, right? Kane not good enough for Man Utd?
Obviously early doors, but based on Lindelof's less than convincing start in pre-season, based on Keane's PL experience and pre-existing knowledge of and rapport with the club.
I didn't say Butland necessarily would be or that United SHOULD sign any of these players, I'm just saying those are some names in my opinion who would probably improve the squad.
But people were discussing him as a potential De Gea replacement after the end of the 15/16 season when it looked like De Gea might be off and Butland was one of the oustanding 'keepers in the league that year and looked the future England #1. Last season was a set-back with the injury but he should get back to that level.
Early days for Pereira, I hear that he's supposed to be supremely talented but we haven't really seen evidence of that yet.
You mean Vargas?
That's my point. I specifically talked about how the players are on paper. The Chilean players know how to play for Chile. Put him, the Chilean, in the England side and he wouldn't be as good because his heart and mind wouldn't be the same.
When you hear interviews with the Icelandic players they all say how much they love playing for the NT, that they can't wait for the NT break and train with the guys. It's so important for any team to have that kind of morale and comraderie but it's especially important for NT because they have less training and playing time together. You've heard English players in recent time say (post-retirement) that the NT duty wasn't something they looked forward too.