England v India 2021 Cricket Test Series

England have lost 19 tests at home in the last 10 years. That’s terrible
 
That Bumrah spell made all the difference. Next game is in Manchester. So during Ronaldo's debut, the test match will be going on at the same time?
 
croadyman said:
Just like Lord's when you turned around an unlikely win opportunity on the last day, like I said earlier you clearly cope better than us when there is not much happening and don't let your frustrations get the better of you out on the field like us and it shows
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I think it's captains duty to do what England are lacking and also they're missing big characters like Stokes and Broad who'd have helped.
 
England looked toast after Lords and I expected us to get batted for the rest of the series.

Surely India wont let us back in again.

I did have to remind myself what a good test match that was though after the disappointment of yesterday/today. While the quality has not been the highest, it's been a great series for competitive cricket.
 
Dan_F said:
Just in the interest of balance, England were missing Wood and Archer, who are the two bowlers we have with real pace. Not to mention Broad and Stokes. Anderson and Robinson look done physically, not surprising seen as one is 39 and the other is playing his first summer of test cricket.

I’m not writing this for the purpose of making excuses, England have been outplayed mentally and on the pitch, but I’m not sure many teams would match India with four premium bowlers missing basically the whole series.
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Yes, we have absolutely missed those players, but the way in which we prepare for test series is substandard and has been for a while now. It is not congenial to keeping players fit, fresh, and enjoying what they do.

Everything seems geared around getting bums on seats and getting in as many tests as possible rather than England winning tests, having adequate preparation, and being successful. But when are England going to beat someone? In all fairness, being 2-1 down in this test series actually flatters them.

We are an utter shambles from top to bottom and the test team is woeful.
 
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Does anyone feel the man of the match should have gone to Thakur? He was the reason India went on to post 190 odd and then he scored again in the second and took some key wickets.
 
LDUred said:
Yes, we have missed those players but the way in which we prepare for test series is substandard. It is not congenial to keeping players fit and enjoying what they do.

Everything seems geared around getting bums on seats and getting in as many tests as possible rather than England winning tests and being successful.

We are an utter shambles from top to bottom and the test team is a joke.
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What do you think should have been done instead?
 
iKnowNothing said:
Does anyone feel the man of the match should have gone to Thakur? He was the reason India went on to post 190 odd and then he scored again in the second and took some key wickets.
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Was MOTM for me. Obviously scored 2 very crucial fifties but also picked up key wickets including Burns and Root in the 2nd innings.
 
This is an incredible win. Kohli got a lot of flak for his selection (and rightly so)but his on field captaincy is just very good in test matches.
 
iKnowNothing said:
What do you think should have been done instead?
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It's not so much a case of what should have been done instead but of the general state of the longer form in this country.

It has been shunted to one side by a whack-a-ball cricket.

The quality of the county game is average, and Craig Overton is one of the better players.

We need a clear division between both forms of the game but I doubt it will ever happen. Under the current system, we will get worse and worse.

Anyway, I don't want to whine and moan about this because it is not appropriate to take attention away, but go and watch county cricket and compare it to what you saw say 10-20 years ago. It's dire.
 
iKnowNothing said:
Does anyone feel the man of the match should have gone to Thakur? He was the reason India went on to post 190 odd and then he scored again in the second and took some key wickets.
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Yep. I don't like it how it almost always goes to the batsman who gets the big score.
 
iKnowNothing said:
Does anyone feel the man of the match should have gone to Thakur? He was the reason India went on to post 190 odd and then he scored again in the second and took some key wickets.
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Probably and then I'd also consider dropping him for the next test. Looks a really average bowler.
 
India did well to win, especially that session after lunch. Ruthless.

But England contributed, as this pitch was no way a 10 wicket in a day pitch. The run out is still mad, because it happens before lunch and India werent exactly having England on the backfoot and defending for their lives.
 
Sylar said:
India did well to win, especially that session after lunch. Ruthless.

But England contributed, as this pitch was no way a 10 wicket in a day pitch. The run out is still mad, because it happens before lunch and India werent exactly having England on the backfoot and defending for their lives.
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Perhaps but I don't think England will focus on today as the crux of why we lost that test match.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
Yeah that’s why I think that England should have made proper green pitches and made it more of a lottery . Whenever the conditions are decent this Indian team is superior to England
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I actually think it's the other way around. Indian bowlers were far more dominant in the first two tests. Indian bowlers have struggled when the pitch hasn't offered anything (execpt for Bumrah's spell today). English batters generally negated them in Headingley and Oval. English bowlers were far more threatening than India's for both innings in Headingley and the first innings here.

If not for the England batters having brain farts in the first innings and Lord Shardul's fifty, they'd have gotten a 150-200 lead this time as well, and decided the game on the second day.
 
Utd heap said:
Perhaps but I don't think England will focus on today as the crux of why we lost that test match.
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But they shouldn't. End of last day, both the openers were cruising, and India's only hope Jadeja was woefully out of rhythm. Good starts by the English batters today, and despite losing 2 wickets, after Lunch most thought England can chase this down if they have 120 or so to score in the last session with 5 wickets in hand. Rob Keys was cautiously excited and Hameed and Root's intent after Lunch was clear.

Don't think they can go back and think about the times they weren't ruthless like letting India score 190, only reaching a lead of 99 runs or allowing Umesh to add 50 runs over two partnerships. The match has ebbed and flowed and India had their own list of things they got wrong like Rohit throwing away his wicket. Kohli, Pant and Shardul not being able to convert their scores on a pitch where there was nothing for the bowlers. Kohli's absolute brain fart of not playing Ashwin, could have very well backfired if Bumrah didn't have that magic spell, or if the Indian batting collapsed again in the second innings.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
Yeah that’s why I think that England should have made proper green pitches and made it more of a lottery . Whenever the conditions are decent this Indian team is superior to England
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weren't you here complaining for 3 months about the Indian pitches during the reverse tour
 
Does Buttler come back into this side?

I think England need to draw a line with respect to one of Buttler/Bairstow -- neither are particularly successful

Pope should be in the side..
 
Utd heap said:
Perhaps but I don't think England will focus on today as the crux of why we lost that test match.
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Well they should not I agree. Their first innings was horrible given what they got India out for
 
zing said:
Does Buttler come back into this side?

I think England need to draw a line with respect to one of Buttler/Bairstow -- neither are particularly successful

Pope should be in the side..
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He is 'one of the boys' so I think Root will want him back in. Tend to agree with your point on him and Jonny long term. Neither play enough red ball Cricket in the calendar year to be dropping in and out.

Pope should be fine, we hardly have loads of options so we have to stick with him. Widely seen as the best young player on the red ball scene in county cricket.
 
Utd heap said:
He is 'one of the boys' so I think Root will want him back in. Tend to agree with your point on him and Jonny long term. Neither play enough red ball Cricket in the calendar year to be dropping in and out.

Pope should be fine, we hardly have loads of options so we have to stick with him. Widely seen as the best young player on the red ball scene in county cricket.
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What's your take on your openers?

The problem England have is there's loads of players averaging 30 who are flattering to deceive. Most batters look like they'll turn a corner, but they remain true to their 30 average.

A year ago, I thought Burns, Sibley, Crawley was a potential top 3, but I seem to be wrong. Crawley still looks a good player to me and I think he'll be back, but I am not sure Burns stays in the side. If all you're going to get is a 30 average out of 4-5 players, I think, like the Bairstow/Buttler conundrum, you have to drop a few and give chances to the next lot.

Hameed looks pretty unconvincing at the moment as well.
 
zing said:
weren't you here complaining for 3 months about the Indian pitches during the reverse tour
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It was 6 months not 3 . Weird thing is that I actually said at that time as well that India are a better team than England and so making underprepared pitches actually makes it more of a lottery than India needed to .
 
nuanced said:
English bowlers were far more threatening than India's for both innings in Headingley and the first innings here.
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They weren’t in the first innings, batting conditions had eased up considerably by the second day. India were also ripping through the English top order when the conditions were helpful.

Which is why this whole ruthless argument lacks nuance.

Did India lack ruthlessness when they let England go from 62/5 to 290 in the first innings?
 
zing said:
What's your take on your openers?
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Hard to pin it down to just the openers. If Stokes is not back for the foreseeable/ever again then we only have one spot in the top 7 nailed down (Root).

Burns continuing to struggle is a big blow. I think they had him in line for potential Captaincy behind Root but that's not on the table when he's either out for a duck or struggles to convert his 50s to a hundred. He does however seem to be the best of a bad bunch right now.

Sibley? Not cut out for that level IMO. Jury still hugely out on Hameed but he's probably done enough in two of his knocks this summer to get a decent run. There is no-one knocking the door down. Crawley will be around the England setup for a long time, but his technique in red ball cricket does not look ready for the top of the order, maybe he can slot in at 5/6 (hopefully alongside Pope)?
 
zing said:
Does Buttler come back into this side?

I think England need to draw a line with respect to one of Buttler/Bairstow -- neither are particularly successful

Pope should be in the side..
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Yeah he’s vice captain, I’m sure he will.

Pope has got to stay after the first innings. Bairstow always felt like a stop gap, given that they knew Buttler was probably going to miss time at some point in the series.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
England messed up the first innings where they had perfect conditions to bat on and get a 200 run lead . Vice captain Moeen Ali with a horrendous shot was the game changer
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100% agree with this. Lower order through their wickets away. A bigger lead would have added more pressure. Very disappointing result after lots of promise.

credit to India. They outperformed England with bat and ball in the last 2 days. Hopefully England can pull it back in the last test to end with a draw.
 
Dan_F said:
Yeah he’s vice captain, I’m sure he will.

Pope has got to stay after the first innings. Bairstow always felt like a stop gap, given that they knew Buttler was probably going to miss time at some point in the series.
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Buttler and Bairstow fighting for one place really. Stokes will come in as the all rounder and 4 other bowlers on the strongest line up. For the next test probably Buttler for Bairstow and Wood for Overton would be the only changes.
 
RDCR07 said:
If Kohli pulls of a test series win in England is he a better test captain than Dhoni?
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Thats for an India fan to judge but the obvious point id make is that Dhoni toured v some much better England sides than this.
 
Utd heap said:
Hard to pin it down to just the openers. If Stokes is not back for the foreseeable/ever again then we only have one spot in the top 7 nailed down (Root).

Burns continuing to struggle is a big blow. I think they had him in line for potential Captaincy behind Root but that's not on the table when he's either out for a duck or struggles to convert his 50s to a hundred. He does however seem to be the best of a bad bunch right now.

Sibley? Not cut out for that level IMO. Jury still hugely out on Hameed but he's probably done enough in two of his knocks this summer to get a decent run. There is no-one knocking the door down. Crawley will be around the England setup for a long time, but his technique in red ball cricket does not look ready for the top of the order, maybe he can slot in at 5/6 (hopefully alongside Pope)?
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Feel Burns, Hameed, Pope and Buttler are also nailed down despite some of their form. The number 3 position continues to ask questions but probably Malan will stay. Difficult to see who can come in from the County game at the moment. Can’t see any stand out 4 day batsmen knocking the door down.
 
TheGame said:
Feel Burns, Hameed, Pope and Buttler are also nailed down despite some of their form. The number 3 position continues to ask questions but probably Malan will stay. Difficult to see who can come in from the County game at the moment. Can’t see any stand out 4 day batsmen knocking the door down.
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Bohannon at Lancs as a curveball. Best batsmen in the league but not previously been on the radar.
 
RDCR07 said:
If Kohli pulls of a test series win in England is he a better test captain than Dhoni?
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Dhoni is one of the worst test captains of my time watching cricket(not just of India), so definitely yes.
 
TheGame said:
Yeah just had a look and he averages 45, continues like that and he will have a shot. Feel Livingstone should have been given a go at 3 but will stick with Malan now.
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Liam at 3 seems a long shot mate. If he comes in it will be at 5/6. And his red ball record this year is awful.

Love him as a player but I think he has realised he could be a superstar in one day cricket.
 
Utd heap said:
Liam at 3 seems a long shot mate. If he comes in it will be at 5/6. And his red ball record this year is awful.

Love him as a player but I think he has realised he could be a superstar in one day cricket.
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You are probably right. Just frustrated at the lack of talent coming through in the county game compared to the one day game.
 
I'd stick with the top 3 how it is for now, Malan is dodgy against spin but he will do better in the Ashes. Honestly I like Buttler a lot but he will get the ODI captaincy soon enough and I think it may just be better for him to focus on the shorter form of the game.
 
SinNombre said:
They weren’t in the first innings, batting conditions had eased up considerably by the second day. India were also ripping through the English top order when the conditions were helpful.

Which is why this whole ruthless argument lacks nuance.

Did India lack ruthlessness when they let England go from 62/5 to 290 in the first innings?
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Yeah, this game was much closer than the final scorecard shows. If Bumrah doesn't come up with those 3 overs, it would have quite probably ended as a draw. If Root scores his customary hundred, and gets some support from the other batters, England would've finished closer to 368 than 200.

A great win for India but it papers over some of the issues in the team. Rahane is just a passenger and you can't count on your lower order adding 150 odd runs every innings. Thakur's half centuries in both the innings saved his blushes IMO. India did't have a bowler who strikes fear in the opposition apart from Bumrah. Jadeja was accurate and economical on the last day, but that didn't look enough for India to take 10 wickets. Ashwin would've been a lethal bowler and a hopefully better batter than Rahane in current form.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
I'd stick with the top 3 how it is for now, Malan is dodgy against spin but he will do better in the Ashes. Honestly I like Buttler a lot but he will get the ODI captaincy soon enough and I think it may just be better for him to focus on the shorter form of the game.
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Malan is a good player of spin. Higher average generally v the turning ball.
 
Thought England missed their opportunities in all 4 innings really, very poor to continually make so many mistakes after so many times playing some really good cricket to get themselves in position. India made their share of mistakes too but no matter how much they feck up we can just do it better.

The whole Bairstow/Moeen/Buttler thing has to stop at some point surely, it's a cruel joke at this point. Ok Moeen is brilliant at getting Kohli out but Root doesn't trust him to hold down an end, his fielding was largely garbage and he averages, what, 15 in the series with the bat? Fantastic talent but just doesn't have the concentration for 5 days of cricket. For me we either need to bite the bullet and pick Parkinson since he's the best non-Rashid shaped spinner in England, or we need to accept we only have part time spinners and give Livingstone a go and hope he can prove himself capable at test level with the bat. At Old Trafford you could even pick both.

I'd go with Burns, Hameed, Malan, Root, Bohannon/Hain/Duckett, Pope, Livingstone, Woakes, Robinson, Parkinson, Anderson. Get after them with a quality bowling attack and give some batsmen a chance to impress. Pope can keep, he won't be much worse than Buttler.
 
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