England in India 2021

SinNombre said:
The Adelaide pink ball test finished in less than 2.5 days but the story of that match was India's batting collapse with the pink ball.

This test finishes in slightly less than 2 days and the story should be rightly about England's inability to pick the straight ball.

Instead of obviously biased reporting based on who is the receiving end on similar events, the real story to me is whether pink ball tests is real test cricket. Way too many batting collapses happen in these even when the conditions are relatively benign (like on this pitch) for it to be.
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I mentioned it earlier. India has played three pink ball tests now.

1st test - India vs Bangladesh - finished 2.5 days. Pacers wrecking havoc

2nd test - Australia vs India - finished in 2.5 days - 36 all out

3rd test - India vs England - finished in 1.75 days - Axar masterclass

That's three tests finished in less than 7 days combined.
 
SinNombre said:
The Adelaide pink ball test finished in less than 2.5 days but the story of that match was India's batting collapse with the pink ball.

This test finishes in slightly less than 2 days and the story should be rightly about England's inability to pick the straight ball.

Instead of obviously biased reporting based on who is the receiving end on similar events, the real story to me is whether pink ball tests is real test cricket. Way too many batting collapses happen in these even when the conditions are relatively benign (like on this pitch) for it to be.
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‘inability to pick the straight ball’ is the worst summary of this match. There is a lot of mental gymnastics in this thread to defend a match that ended in less than two days. That is one of the worst pitches we’ve had in recent memory. It was a complete disgrace and will kill the game if we roll it out every time.

not surprisingly, it feels like the only people defending the pitch are the ones who just saw the highlights or even less.
 
If India weren't bowled out at 145 themselves, with Joe Root taking 4 wickets, I would be more inclined to believe the test finishing quickly was due to England's poor batting and not the horrendous pitch. For all those other tests mentioned that finished quickly, atleast one team seemed to have control of the conditions but this pitch was bad enough that both teams had not idea, and that a bowler like Joe Root got 4 wickets against the best batting line-up in the world.
 
This pitch + pink ball combo was unplayable. I don't think there's any room for debate on that front at all.

And of course Kohli would try and defend/deflect from that. This was the first game in what is going to be India's marquee stadium in the future, and it was just named after Supreme Leader. There's a lot of optics here that he can't simply afford to mess with.
 
zing said:
‘inability to pick the straight ball’ is the worst summary of this match. There is a lot of mental gymnastics in this thread to defend a match that ended in less than two days. That is one of the worst pitches we’ve had in recent memory. It was a complete disgrace and will kill the game if we roll it out every time.

not surprisingly, it feels like the only people defending the pitch are the ones who just saw the highlights or even less.
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Couldn't agree more.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
This pitch + pink ball combo was unplayable. I don't think there's any room for debate on that front at all.

And of course Kohli would try and defend/deflect from that. This was the first game in what is going to be India's marquee stadium in the future, and it was just named after Supreme Leader. There's a lot of optics here that he can't simply afford to mess with.
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With the Pink Ball you have to get the pitches close to 100% right.

I think there is still learning with how to create pitches for them. This is India's second one hosting and as you said first game a new stadium would have made it hard to prepare a great pitch.
 
the magic no is 36 as long as England don’t get skittled out for that score or less I’ll still have the last laugh on my brother in law. He has been on the texts non stop (apart from when India went from 99-2 or 3 to 140 odd all out. So I’m just about to buy him an India cricket shirt with the no 36 on the back with the letters AO.
 
If Sri Lanka or Bangladesh had prepared a pitch like this, there would barely be any media outcry.

But this is India, supposedly the best team in the world. Why did they need to prepare a terrible pitch to beat us?

Reminds me of the 2015 Ashes. Australia hammered England on a flat wicket so England prepared two greentops, rolled Aus for 130 and 60 and won the series. At the time, it was great to get the Ashes back but also a bit hollow.

Personally think the ICC should take over pitch preparation. Could be part of match referee's remit. Home sides have enough advantage as it was without creating pitches to suit them as well.
 
Looking at it from a slightly different angle...

Bit of a nightmare for the players to have that two day test in the current circumstances - all bubbled up in a hotel with no Cricket to distract them.

That's a real long wait until the next Test, and you wonder how some dismissals etc will be playing on their mind (Olly Pope, Stokes v Ashwin etc).

Usually you'd be able to travel around a new country and take your mind off things.
 
JohnnyKills said:
If Sri Lanka or Bangladesh had prepared a pitch like this, there would barely be any media outcry.

But this is India, supposedly the best team in the world. Why did they need to prepare a terrible pitch to beat us?

Reminds me of the 2015 Ashes. Australia hammered England on a flat wicket so England prepared two greentops, rolled Aus for 130 and 60 and won the series. At the time, it was great to get the Ashes back but also a bit hollow.

Personally think the ICC should take over pitch preparation. Could be part of match referee's remit. Home sides have enough advantage as it was without creating pitches to suit them as well.
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Dont you think pitches such as the one from the 1st test are unfair? Provides a massive advantage to the winner of the toss. The Oval test from 2018 springs to mind - we batted last on a pitch with an astonishing amount of rough outside leg.

Its a hard decision for the ICC. Personally, I've never had an issue with the toss or the pitch. Its always been part of the game - maybe India could be a little more careful with their preparation.
 


I bet Vaughan wasn't crying when India were bundled out in Lords in 2018. Here was his tweet then



That lasted 30 overs more than this one. I don't remember this much moaning then.
 
AshRK said:


I bet Vaughan wasn't crying when India were bundled out in Lords in 2018. Here was his tweet then



That lasted 30 overs more than this one. I don't remember this much moaning then.
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Vaughan gonna Vaughan. Blokes an idiot.
 
AshRK said:


I bet Vaughan wasn't crying when India were bundled out in Lords in 2018. Here was his tweet then



That lasted 30 overs more than this one. I don't remember this much moaning then.
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It's just Michael Vaughan. Tabloid nonsense day in day out.
 
AshRK said:


I bet Vaughan wasn't crying when India were bundled out in Lords in 2018. Here was his tweet then



That lasted 30 overs more than this one. I don't remember this much moaning then.
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Yeah we all think Vaughan is a twat.

For what it's worth, I think the last two pitches have been a good compliment to England, England were probably underestimated by India initially but they know they can bat and bowl better with spin so they produced the bunsens which is their right.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Yeah we all think Vaughan is a twat.

For what it's worth, I think the last two pitches have been a good compliment to England, England were probably underestimated by India initially but they know they can bat and bowl better with spin so they produced the bunsens which is their right.
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The need to win 2-1 to go to the finals is playing a role here sadly. I don’t think we’d have done this otherwise.
 
AshRK said:


I bet Vaughan wasn't crying when India were bundled out in Lords in 2018. Here was his tweet then



That lasted 30 overs more than this one. I don't remember this much moaning then.
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Agree completely Ash.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
Dont you think pitches such as the one from the 1st test are unfair? Provides a massive advantage to the winner of the toss. The Oval test from 2018 springs to mind - we batted last on a pitch with an astonishing amount of rough outside leg.

Its a hard decision for the ICC. Personally, I've never had an issue with the toss or the pitch. Its always been part of the game - maybe India could be a little more careful with their preparation.
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Yeah, get what you're saying. I think we all want to see a variety of pitches - it would be boring if every pitch was the same. Home advantage is part of the challenge of touring.

I just think that the home side will always have a certain advantage anyway. In England, it will always swing. In Australia, it will always bounce. In India, it will always spin. So there's no need to accentuate that.

As someone else said perfectly earlier in this thread, this whole furore is a compliment to England and the way they played in the first test.
 
zing said:
The need to win 2-1 to go to the finals is playing a role here sadly. I don’t think we’d have done this otherwise.
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Yeah that's my feeling too.

I guess this is the law of unintended consequences at work. The ICC creates a comp to give context to all the bilateral series, but they didn't think that it would lead to teams tailoring pitches to get an advantages. Hopefully they'll correct that somehow.
 
JohnnyKills said:
Yeah that's my feeling too.

I guess this is the law of unintended consequences at work. The ICC creates a comp to give context to all the bilateral series, but they didn't think that it would lead to teams tailoring pitches to get an advantages. Hopefully they'll correct that somehow.
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What's wrong with tailoring pitches? It's part of touring. Home advantage is felt in many ways. Green top in England, umpires calling no balls on Indians but not Aussies in the recent series for bouncers (nobody cried there but I've seen complaining about Indian upires here). It's creating news around test cricket, which is a good thing.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
Bored of this now , need the next match to start so that I can moan about the umpires
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NM said:
What's wrong with tailoring pitches? It's part of touring. Home advantage is felt in many ways. Green top in England, umpires calling no balls on Indians but not Aussies in the recent series for bouncers (nobody cried there but I've seen complaining about Indian upires here). It's creating news around test cricket, which is a good thing.
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Everything is a balance though aint it mate. Two day test matches on pitches where Root/Kohli look clueless on it are a poor advert for the game and I doubt the BCCI will want that repeated.

Fairly sure we'll get a decent wicket for the final test. I didn't think the first two wickets were great but they were good enough to allow the class players to play good cricket.
 
Utd heap said:
Everything is a balance though aint it mate. Two day test matches on pitches where Root/Kohli look clueless on it are a poor advert for the game and I doubt the BCCI will want that repeated.

Fairly sure we'll get a decent wicket for the final test. I didn't think the first two wickets were great but they were good enough to allow the class players to play good cricket.
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Kohli didn't look bad on this. He played a bad shot. It really looks like he has lost a step or 2 in the past year. It's a good thing for India others are stepping up.
There was nothing wrong with the prior pitch and here the England captain said the problem was the ball, not the pitch.
 
NM said:
What's wrong with tailoring pitches? It's part of touring. Home advantage is felt in many ways. Green top in England, umpires calling no balls on Indians but not Aussies in the recent series for bouncers (nobody cried there but I've seen complaining about Indian upires here). It's creating news around test cricket, which is a good thing.
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No it's not. Touring is about the unfamiliar weather conditions, the lack of match practice, the passion of the home crowd and the natural variations in the soil.

It's only about tailored wickets if the home side chooses it to be.
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
This pitch + pink ball combo was unplayable. I don't think there's any room for debate on that front at all.

And of course Kohli would try and defend/deflect from that. This was the first game in what is going to be India's marquee stadium in the future, and it was just named after Supreme Leader. There's a lot of optics here that he can't simply afford to mess with.
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Is this going to be the marquee stadium? I'd have thought that would be Mumbai/Delhi?
 
KM said:
Yeah read about it. Quite a stupid tweet.
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yeah really stupid, the ECB have really made an effort to present the men’s and women’s team as a united front so doesn’t look great for a colleague to stick the boot in
 
JohnnyKills said:
No it's not. Touring is about the unfamiliar weather conditions, the lack of match practice, the passion of the home crowd and the natural variations in the soil.

It's only about tailored wickets if the home side chooses it to be.
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Tailoring = making pitches to suit your team. Every team in the world does this, including England. Natural variations of the soil, what a joke.
 
NinjaFletch said:
I can understand Rory Burns being a bit touchy about it, but what the feck has it got to to with Duckett? I'm about as close to the England team as he is these days and unless you're actually out there playing surely you can see the tweet is light hearted?
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to be honest I’m not convinced at just how light hearted it was but I don’t disagree about Duckett, it’s one for the players to sort themselves :lol:
 
zing said:
The need to win 2-1 to go to the finals is playing a role here sadly. I don’t think we’d have done this otherwise.
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I’m probably wrong, but I thought both sides needed to with by 2 tests or it would be Australia in the final
 
I think that anybody who thinks that a wicket on which Joe Root can get 5 for 8 is acceptable for test cricket is being disingenuous. The day that Joe Root becomes unplayable you know that the pitch is not fit for purpose.

I really believe that if it wasn't India with all their clout in the game that the side who had prepared that wicket would have been docked points and the ground would be under question if it was suitable for test cricket.
 
Fully Fledged said:
I think that anybody who thinks that a wicket on which Joe Root can get 5 for 8 is acceptable for test cricket is being disingenuous. The day that Joe Root becomes unplayable you know that the pitch is not fit for purpose.

I really believe that if it wasn't India with all their clout in the game that the side who had prepared that wicket would have been docked points and the ground would be under question if it was suitable for test cricket.
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But that's the thing, root was hardly unplayable. Yes some of his deliveries did turn but look back at all the wickets and all were result of poor shots or bad technique. Also, bar Pant all his wickets were of lower order batsmen. Ashwin got out playing a big shot, Axar same, Pant's delivery although turned but was a careless shot, Sundar was rooted to the crease and bumrah's batting is non existent. It's not the first time part timers have taken so many wickets, clarke did pick 6 wickets in the past, Sehwag has picked a 5fer, Hardik Pandya picked 5 wickets when we toured England. I am pretty sure their are other instances too when part timers have picked 4 or 5 wickets. Pitch wasn't the greatest but even the batting was poor. Let us not forget India were 99-2. That was a total collapse.

Also, to suggest only India does it is a wierd take. England SA NZ all have been culprit of preparing bowling friendly pitches. Never did I see any points being docked or even mentioned. Not defending the pitch by any means but your post seems to suggest you are giving excuse to the batting. Batting in this test match was mediocre and many wickets were just result of poor shots. I will even say I have seen far worse pitches than this where ball was bouncing off the cracks and turning all over the place. This was nothing in comparison to those.
 
Fully Fledged said:
I think that anybody who thinks that a wicket on which Joe Root can get 5 for 8 is acceptable for test cricket is being disingenuous. The day that Joe Root becomes unplayable you know that the pitch is not fit for purpose.

I really believe that if it wasn't India with all their clout in the game that the side who had prepared that wicket would have been docked points and the ground would be under question if it was suitable for test cricket.
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We were slogging at the end and your own captain talked about the ball, not the pitch, but sure you know better than him.
 
What do people think was the difference between this wicket and the one from the previous match? Both assisted turn from the first ball. That said, most wickets in India over the past few years have been the same.
 
Fully Fledged said:
I think that anybody who thinks that a wicket on which Joe Root can get 5 for 8 is acceptable for test cricket is being disingenuous. The day that Joe Root becomes unplayable you know that the pitch is not fit for purpose.

I really believe that if it wasn't India with all their clout in the game that the side who had prepared that wicket would have been docked points and the ground would be under question if it was suitable for test cricket.
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Root wasn't unplayable by any means. Honestly, I doubt we showed and will ever show his bowling any respect (we do that to a lot of spinners) and that played a massive part in his numbers.
 
NM said:
We were slogging at the end and your own captain talked about the ball, not the pitch, but sure you know better than him.
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He's hardly going to come out and accuse India of cheating is he? He's far too much of a politician for that.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
Root wasn't unplayable by any means. Honestly, I doubt we showed and will ever show his bowling any respect (we do that to a lot of spinners) and that played a massive part in his numbers.
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5 for 8 in a test match for a player of Roots standard is exceptional even if the opposition chose to throw their wickets away.

If you don't agree with me then maybe Jonathan Agnew is more your style.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/56203896
India v England: 'A two-day Test - this is not how Test cricket should be'
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Fully Fledged said:
5 for 8 in a test match for a player of Roots standard is exceptional even if the opposition chose to throw their wickets away.

If you don't agree with me then maybe Jonathan Agnew is more your style.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/56203896
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I watched his 5-for - there was nothing exceptional about it. Four were tailenders. Great figures but we were pretty much looking for quick runs at the end. Agnew himself says the pitch wasn't as bad as the one in the 2nd test.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
What do people think was the difference between this wicket and the one from the previous match? Both assisted turn from the first ball. That said, most wickets in India over the past few years have been the same.
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I think the real issue has been the fact that the match got over in 2 days. Had India scored 250 then this talk wouldn't have been there to this extent. I do agree that such pitches shouldn't be made. But then was it the worst pitch ever seen, no?
 
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