England in India 2021

Apparently Ahmadabad has 12 pitch with different level of bounce and spin. According to Harsha Bhogle, pitch will have turn and bounce.
 
BR7 said:
Pant is not better than butter, I’d have butler any day over him. That may change in 5 years but currently it isn’t even 50/50 for me (that was someone else’s take) I’m going full hog I’d take buttker ahead of him. For me it isn’t even 50/50
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Christ you're tedious.

So rohit sharma is ruled out cos doesn't have a century abroad but Buttler is above Pant even though he doesn't have a century abroad and Pant has two.

Gill has better away average than pretty much all of your openers but then again he isn't better than any of your openers.
 
KM said:
Christ you're tedious.

So rohit sharma is ruled out cos doesn't have a century abroad but Buttler is above Pant even though he doesn't have a century abroad and Pant has two.

Gill has better away average than pretty much all of your openers but then again he isn't better than any of your openers.
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You calling me tedious? Pot kettle black.

he has a 27 average and you’re still going on I’m done, facts are there in front of you
 
Rohit
Gill
Root
Kohli
Stokes
Pant
Jadeja
Ashwin
Ishant
Bumrah
Anderson

That would be my team combined. Pujara (boring feck) and Broad (cnut) might feel hard done but idgaf.
 
Sultan said:
I have always kept wicket, at lower levels. Obviously, Foakes has been a revelation in this match and is a specialist keeper. However, I noticed Pant has been stretching when taking the bails off. This is a critical second lost when stumpings are going to be judged on millimetres. I am sure the coaches will have seen the issue and will get this addressed. Having short hands I personally think he needs to stand 6 inches closer to the stumps when keeping against the spinners.
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I haven't watched him much but is his first movement/weight transfer when standing up backwards rather than static/sideways?
 
To be fair to england, no one from their squad moaned about the pitch and even the likes of Botham, atherton, swann all talked abiut changing the mindset rather than always blaming the pitch whenever touring india. I do think all the pitch talk did deflate them. Ashwin in one of the interviews mentioned how England batsmen lost the mind battle. It seemed they never thought of taking the game to the spinners.
 
AshRK said:
To be fair to england, no one from their squad moaned about the pitch and even the likes of Botham, atherton, swann all talked abiut changing the mindset rather than always blaming the pitch whenever touring india. I do think all the pitch talk did deflate him. Ashwin in one of the interviews mentioned how England batsmen lost the mind battle. It seemed they never thought of taking the game to the spinners.
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Big problem there is it wasn't really a pitch to sweep on and that's the main aggressive shot most of our players have against spin.
 
YAMS49 said:
I haven't watched him much but is his first movement/weight transfer when standing up backwards rather than static/sideways?
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I can't exactly pinpoint the issue. However, there is definitely something to work on going forward.
 
Only Root of all the English batsmen who played in this test is good enough to play on turning and bouncing pitches. The rest are out of their depth including Stokes. Stokes is arguably the best all-rounder in the world and would be an automatic choice in any international team on other surfaces.
 
Pant gets in over Butler in Tests and I'm an Englishman, To be fair Pant's style is thrilling and exciting but it's a really risky way to go about it but it's seems to be paying off for him at the moment.
 
Sultan said:
Only Root of all the English batsmen who played in this test is good enough to play on turning and bouncing pitches. The rest are out of their depth including Stokes. Stokes is arguably the best all-rounder in the world and would be an automatic choice in any international team on other surfaces.
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James Taylor, Alastair Cook and Kevin Pietersen are the names that pop in my head of playing well in the subcontinent in recent times.
 
I'm convinced there's something going on with this Moeen thing. England seem quite keen to encourage criticism of him going home.
 
DOTA said:
I'm convinced there's something going on with this Moeen thing. England seem quite keen to encourage criticism of him going home.
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What’s going on is that people are getting affected mentally with bubbles and the crisis in general. If the management are as you say encouraging criticism, then they’re cnuts
 
Inigo Montoya said:
What’s going on is that people are getting affected mentally with bubbles and the crisis in general. If the management are as you say encouraging criticism, then they’re cnuts
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Definitely and especially because he's going home at the point it was already agreed he would be going home. They seem to want him to be judged for not wanting to change the plans.
 
Sultan said:
Only Root of all the English batsmen who played in this test is good enough to play on turning and bouncing pitches. The rest are out of their depth including Stokes. Stokes is arguably the best all-rounder in the world and would be an automatic choice in any international team on other surfaces.
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Bit early to right the death warrant on our batting line up on turning wickets. They've had no warm up games in India and been battered - give 'em a chance to turn it around. You'll likely be proved right but still...

Sri Lanka are like playing the Indian C team at the moment but plenty of them played well on a turning wicket over there.
 
sport2793 said:
The relevant English players have arguably more IPL experience than Indian players of county cricket.
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White ball cricket..

Off the top of my head I know that from the latest test team Kohli, Pujara, Ashwin and Patel have all played county cricket, and I’m sure more will have played club cricket in England.
 
Some of you lot massively underestimate Pujara.

Cummins (clearly the #1 bowler in the world) has a very nice interview about the recent series and it is clear he recognizes how important Pujara is.

In a lot of challenging conditions, you would certainly pick him above Kohli and Root in test cricket.
 
SinNombre said:
Some of you lot massively underestimate Pujara.

Cummins (clearly the #1 bowler in the world) has a very nice interview about the recent series and it is clear he recognizes how important Pujara is.

In a lot of challenging conditions, you would certainly pick him above Kohli and Root in test cricket.
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Link to interview?
 
Batting is for a large part psychological and the scoreboard pressure combined with the alien conditions were too much. England got thrashed mainly because their spinners failed to control the tempo and put India under pressure. If we see more pitches turn on the first day then England haven’t got a prayer against this spin attack and with our spin attack. If we get a better surface then England may have a chance depending on the toss.
 
SinNombre said:
Some of you lot massively underestimate Pujara.

Cummins (clearly the #1 bowler in the world) has a very nice interview about the recent series and it is clear he recognizes how important Pujara is.

In a lot of challenging conditions, you would certainly pick him above Kohli and Root in test cricket.
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I think he was easily the most important batsman for India's victory against Australia. The amount of bowling the Australians had to do because of him was a major factor in making it easier for others imo.

I am ashamed to say after the first match I wanted him out.
 
Utd heap said:
Bit early to right the death warrant on our batting line up on turning wickets. They've had no warm up games in India and been battered - give 'em a chance to turn it around. You'll likely be proved right but still...

Sri Lanka are like playing the Indian C team at the moment but plenty of them played well on a turning wicket over there.
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It's not a death warrant. They just look out of their depth, and it's no fault of the players having not been coached or played in such conditions previously. You also make a valid point about no warm-up games. Unfortunately, with the success of one-day formats, warm-up games have no calendar dates available.
 
Sultan said:
Only Root of all the English batsmen who played in this test is good enough to play on turning and bouncing pitches. The rest are out of their depth including Stokes. Stokes is arguably the best all-rounder in the world and would be an automatic choice in any international team on other surfaces.
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Time to give Keaton Jennings a call.
 
Tottenhamguy said:
James Taylor, Alastair Cook and Kevin Pietersen are the names that pop in my head of playing well in the subcontinent in recent times.
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Class players. Gooch and Gatting were very good at playing spin.

You can name plenty of brilliant batsmen of the past. I was only mentioning the present players on tour. I think Bairstow is a very decent player of spin and should do better than some of those who played in this match.
 
pratyush_utd said:
Apparently Ahmadabad has 12 pitch with different level of bounce and spin. According to Harsha Bhogle, pitch will have turn and bounce.
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It's not a massive surprise that pitches in India will turn but since when did pitch information become so readily available so early? Cricinfo basically gave a full pitch report 2 days before the last test. I'm normally used to pundits getting a sight of the pitch the day before and offering their view.
 
Sultan said:
As a Lancastrian, I would welcome his inclusion. However, he had a pretty average season in Championship cricket.
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Oddly for an opener he can't play seam bowling, but his record against spin is pretty good.
 
Sultan said:
Class players.

You can name plenty of brilliant batsmen of the past. I was only mentioning the present players on tour. I think Bairstow is a very decent player of spin and should do better than some of those who played in this match.
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I think if England were choosing a team to win in India at all costs then Jennings, Bairstow, Buttler and Moeen would have played all 4 tests. As it stands England are prioritising the T20 leg of this tour with a view to the T20 World Cup and are investing, from what I can tell anyway, in developing Sibley, Crawley, Lawrence and Pope as the core of their batting lineup for the long-term.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
I think if England were choosing a team to win in India at all costs then Jennings, Bairstow, Buttler and Moeen would have played all 4 tests. As it stands England are prioritising the T20 leg of this tour with a view to the T20 World Cup and are investing, from what I can tell anyway, in developing Sibley, Crawley, Lawrence and Pope as the core of their batting lineup for the long-term.
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I personally think they should be preparing for the Ashes tour. T20 is a knockout competition and you easily get knocked out in the Semis or lose in the final by just having a few bad minutes. This despite being the best team.
 
Sultan said:
I personally think they should be preparing for the Ashes tour. T20 is a knockout competition and you easily get knocked out in the Semis or lose in the final by just having a few bad minutes. This despite being the best team.
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I think they are still planning for that heavily too. Obviously spinners are the focus on these winter tours but they've used Curran, Wood, Archer, Anderson, Broad and Stone through 5 tests with none of them playing more than 2 tests in a row. The consistent rotation of Broad and Anderson is definitely with an eye on the Ashes.
 
Sultan said:
Class players. Gooch and Gatting were very good at playing spin.

You can name plenty of brilliant batsmen of the past. I was only mentioning the present players on tour. I think Bairstow is a very decent player of spin and should do better than some of those who played in this match.
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I agree. I think Bairstow will definitely play, probably at 3, because he’s a good player of spin with experience of conditions in the sub continent.
 
mav_9me said:
I think he was easily the most important batsman for India's victory against Australia. The amount of bowling the Australians had to do because of him was a major factor in making it easier for others imo.

I am ashamed to say after the first match I wanted him out.
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Cummins said the same as well.

Which is why it is kinda ridiculous to not include him in the combined xi's.

I would have it as
? (likely Rohit)
Pujara
Root
Kohli
Stokes
?
Jadeja
Ashwin
? (Ishant or Archer or Shami)
Bumrah
Anderson

In a lineup with Bumrah and Anderson who are both most effective in short spells, you would prefer Ishant as the workhorse.

I don't get the lineups where all 3 of Stokes, Jadeja, Ashwin don't play. You have 3/5 best A/Rs in the modern game, including the guy who is the best spinner in red ball cricket.
 
BR7 said:
You calling me tedious? Pot kettle black.

he has a 27 average and you’re still going on I’m done, facts are there in front of you
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Crawley - average 19.9 away from home
Buttler - Averages 30 away from home
Sibey - 34 away from home

Gill - Averages 51 away from home,
Pant - 39 away from home,

So Rohit Sharma doesn't deserve to be there as he averages just 27 away from home, but Crawley deserves to be ahead of Gill and Buttler is clearly better than Pant.
 
Rams said:
White ball cricket..

Off the top of my head I know that from the latest test team Kohli, Pujara, Ashwin and Patel have all played county cricket, and I’m sure more will have played club cricket in England.
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Ishant has too. Kohli didn't play much I think in county from what I remember.
 
JohnnyKills said:
You're not serious are you?

Root and Stokes would walk into the Indian team and Crawley has done more in test cricket than Gill so far. Pant and Buttler is a 50-50 call.
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With all due respect, Gill is a once in a generation batting talent so there's no point in having this argument. Doesn't matter what a 21 year old has done in test cricket relative to a 23 year old (although Gill in that last Aus test was spectacular) but I expect Gill to be a top 5 to 10 batsman in the world in the long run.
 
sport2793 said:
With all due respect, Gill is a once in a generation batting talent so there's no point in having this argument. Doesn't matter what a 21 year old has done in test cricket relative to a 23 year old (although Gill in that last Aus test was spectacular) but I expect Gill to be a top 5 to 10 batsman in the world in the long run.
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I think it's fair to say a Root, Smith Kohli or a Tendulkar will get into a playing eleven based on their potential but i don't think Gill is there yet and it's probably fair to have a conversation based on current form and achievements till date. Although I don't know much about Crawley. Who is he?
 
roonster09 said:
Crawley - average 19.9 away from home
Buttler - Averages 30 away from home
Sibey - 34 away from home

Gill - Averages 51 away from home,
Pant - 39 away from home,

So Rohit Sharma doesn't deserve to be there as he averages just 27 away from home, but Crawley deserves to be ahead of Gill and Buttler is clearly better than Pant.
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missing the point with rohit, he’s no spring chicken in test match terms he’s played more innings than the rest.
 
BR7 said:
missing the point with rohit, he’s no spring chicken in test match terms he’s played more innings than the rest.
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Same with Pant vs Butler. Buttler is also 30, Pant is just 23.

Also all these combined 11 are for "who is better now" rather than "how good these players will be 5 years down the line".
 
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