England - Euro 2021 Discussion | FA chairman: Southgate to be offered new contract until Euro 2024

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

No, it was a very very controlled and professional performance. I don't think you understood the performance and the team selection.

I don’t think you understood my point. Of course it was a very controlled and professional performance. Worked out perfectly last night

 

[africanspur]

Didn’t work very well for us when we made changes versus Scotland though. Always very difficult to switch it up so drastically mid game. We also completely lost all shape in the final group game once we made changes and didn’t improve in attacking sense either. Against better opposition that kind of loss of shape could really punish us.

That’s why I worry.

True but I don't think an individual group stage game is necessarily representative of how we would play going a goal down now, especially against a team who I think its fair to say has a difference in motivation.

The other thing is that the Scotland game wasn't a necessary win. Even a draw was essentially enough to send us through realistically and there was never any need to go hell for leather. The situation is obviously a bit different if its the 70th minute and we're a goal down to Ukraine.

 

[WeePat]

Grealish has been on the pitch for about 5 minutes this tournament and he's had the assist for 2 of the 4 goals we've scored. It seems so bizarre to not start him, even if Southgate prefers a pragmatic line-up. Sit Saka down, start Grealish. Things just happen when he's on the pitch. Nothing against Saka. He's done nothing wrong. He's been one of the better players out there when he's played, but Grealish just brings a whole different level of creativity.

 

[TheLiverBird]

Way to completely miss the point there.

We’ve literally just seen two sides come back from 2 goals down. Difference was, those sides weren’t completely set up to keep a clean sheet with very little creativity. We saw versus Scotland just how shite we were at trying to switch it around mid game.

But we weren’t a goal down against Scotland

the stakes and Mentality are totally different when a goal down

Scotland game was massively disappointing of course, but you can’t compare that match to what we’d be like when a goal down

we also aren’t in group stage mentality now either, we are in a totally different position

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

True but I don't think an individual group stage game is necessarily representative of how we would play going a goal down now, especially against a team who I think its fair to say has a difference in motivation.

The other thing is that the Scotland game wasn't a necessary win. Even a draw was essentially enough to send us through realistically and there was never any need to go hell for leather. The situation is obviously a bit different if its the 70th minute and we're a goal down to Ukraine.

Obviously the situation would be different but that doesn’t stop me being worried that we’d struggle to drastically change up our tactics, the evidence so far hasn’t allayed my fears.

 

[Judas]

I just don't think as an English person now is the time to be negative. Enjoy the next few days, stop worrying.

 

[Bilbo]

We’re in huge trouble if we ever go a goal down that’s for sure. Our entire game plan is to Greece the tournament.

Last night we had 5 defenders, 2 defensive mids (one who plays like an extra CB), a wing back with zero goal threat + Kane and Sterling. It worked, but it’d be a scary prospect to go behind when playing with those tactics.

The criticism I had of Ole in the Europa League final was that he started with all of the attacking big hitters on the pitch. Leaves you nowhere to go if you need to inject something different into the side, and it was probably the first time he's done that as our coach.

Southgate is doing the opposite of that. I'll be very interested to see how he reacts when (if) we go behind in a game because he has the bench to be able to completely change our approach. I supported the team selection last night - aside from Saka in attack - as I think the best approach to knockout football, certainly with this squad, is to 'contain and then close', and I believe it helps the starting players execute his tactical plans knowing that our chances of winning are increasing as the game goes on - and I'm sure opponents are impacted by seeing 60 odd goals worth of substitutes warming up next to the pitch.

 

[justsomebloke]

I was talking more about Southgate’s tenure thus far.
Had a fortunate draw in the World Cup and looks like a pretty easy ride to the final this time as well. Germany is a tough game for sure though, even though they aren’t as good as they used to be.
We fully deserved to win last night and I’m happy we finally managed to beat Germany , but it’s tempered with a feeling that we should be much better than we’ve shown.

From yesterday's pre-game match feed in the Guardian:

“You have not been following the ‘Southgate is a moron’ twitter trend close enough,” writes Mary Waltz. “A wise choice for your mental health but here is how it will proceed. If England beat Germany the Southgate-slaggers will go to these two arguments: Germany is an old washed up squad and England won despite Southgates stupidity’.”

 

[Massive Spanner]

They have no excuse not to win it. Easily the best team on their side of the draw and a final at Wembley.

Hopefully they bollock it up, go Denmark!

 

[justsomebloke]

Okay, status so far.

- England is in the quarter finals
- England has conceded 0 goals in 4 games, the only team in the tournament to achieve that
- England has 3 wins (against Germany, against the team that eliminated Netherlands 2-0 and against the team that took Spain to extra time), and 1 draw, a record bettered only by Belgium

Oh yes, Belgium. The only other team not to have had a real wobble so far this tournament. Have they been playing the dazzling football that worried England fans are calling for? They put two past each of two of the weakest teams in the tournament (Russia and Finland), were outshot and dominated by Denmark and produced very little against Portugal, basically winning both of those games by playing a football with maximum emphasis on risk-avoidance, and trusting in the individual qualities of their lonesome attackers to suffice on one or two of the few chances they get.

You can always want more, but if anyone's anything other than very pleased and quite confident about how things are looking right now, that's a problem of psychology, not football.

 

[Bilbo]

Okay, status so far.

- England is in the quarter finals
- England has conceded 0 goals in 4 games, the only team in the tournament to achieve that
- England has 3 wins (against Germany, against the team that eliminated Netherlands 2-0 and against the team that took Spain to extra time), and 1 draw, a record bettered only by Belgium

Oh yes, Belgium. The only other team not to have had a real wobble so far this tournament. Have they been playing the dazzling football that worried England fans are calling for? They put two past each of two of the weakest teams in the tournament (Russia and Finland), were outshot and dominated by Denmark and produced very little against Portugal, basically winning both of those games by playing a football with maximum emphasis on risk-avoidance, and trusting in the individual qualities of their lonesome attackers to suffice on one or two of the few chances they get.

You can always want more, but if anyone's anything other than very pleased and quite confident about how things are looking right now, that's a problem of psychology, not football.

Agreed. Seems to be a growing trend these days that teams (and by extension their managers) only get any real credit if they are completely outplaying opponents. Anything short of that stops a lot of fans from truly enjoying and/or appreciating a win. Southgate could very easily find himself with a WC semi final and EC final on his record and people will still think of him negatively.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

@ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg I think I was being too harsh on Southgate yesterday. Keeping a clean sheet in all your games so far in the tournament has got to count for something and he deserves credit for that. I'm just mightily annoyed about his overly cautious gameplan since imo you could be even better if certain changes (in approach and personnel) are made, but it's all about the wins and so far it's paying dividends.

I still think he's not the right guy and you would be doing even better with a better manager, but I was being too drastic yesterday.

Hey.

that’s cool - I do feel like I’m a one man defence of him on here!

he is pragmatic. He is cautious. Like everyone, I’d love England to have Sancho on one side, Rashford rampaging on the other, squeeze in Foden and Grealish (or whatever the mix is) - let them play and see what they can do.

I think if we were a country like France, Germany or Spain that has success in recent memory that we should demand that.

But with England, and the mentality of perennial losers that runs through players, managers and fans, I support his approach. Taking an approach the majority wouldn’t, is personally risky for him and we’ve seen the mountains of criticism he’s gotten for it.

I’m not personally a big supporter of his, but he does deserve a chance, and deserves to be judged after the tournament finishes.

he’s done a couple of things no other England manager has done, win the first game, and win a knockout game against Germany. I thought yesterday was excellent.

 

[justsomebloke]

Agreed. Seems to be a growing trend these days that teams (and by extension their managers) only get any real credit if they are completely outplaying opponents. Anything short of that stops a lot of fans from truly enjoying and/or appreciating a win. Southgate could very easily find himself with a WC semi final and EC final on his record and people will still think of him negatively.

Yeah, it's absurd. My comment about psychology wasn't tongue in cheek - I think there are people who are just devoted to their own sense of disaffection, beyond all reason. They think that's what it means to be a football fan. Maybe it's more that that's what they use football for. You see it with United too.

 

[Devil77]

We’re in huge trouble if we ever go a goal down that’s for sure. Our entire game plan is to Greece the tournament.

Last night we had 5 defenders, 2 defensive mids (one who plays like an extra CB), a wing back with zero goal threat + Kane and Sterling. It worked, but it’d be a scary prospect to go behind when playing with those tactics.

And England didn't look dangerous at all before the Grealish sub. Both Kane and Sterling eventually scored, but especially Kane was almost invisible for the entire game. You could argue that the goals were tap-ins.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

I just don't think as an English person now is the time to be negative. Enjoy the next few days, stop worrying.

This.

Just knocked Germany out of a tournament for the first time in 55 years. Enjoy it for a day or two for feck sake.

 

[11101]

No, it was a very very controlled and professional performance. I don't think you understood the performance and the team selection.

It was obviously not to lose the game in the first 45-60 minutes and staying in the game, knowing you have something that other teams don't, an amazing bench.

You think we wanted to control the game for the first 60 minutes and then knew we had great options on the bench.

I think we were scared to lose and then threw on subs to see what happened. We've done it before but it is not a good way to play. I don't believe it was all part of a masterplan, particularly as Germany missed some fantastic chances early in the game.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

Agreed. Seems to be a growing trend these days that teams (and by extension their managers) only get any real credit if they are completely outplaying opponents. Anything short of that stops a lot of fans from truly enjoying and/or appreciating a win. Southgate could very easily find himself with a WC semi final and EC final on his record and people will still think of him negatively.

It depends how you perceive it. Is a WC semi (during a piss easy draw) and a euro final (another slightly favourable draw) good enough for this group of players?

The last good German team won the world cup yet some fans think they blew a great generation of players by only winning one cup in that time.

If you think the best these England players can get are a semi and a final then fair enough.

For me, the style is irrelevant, the trophies are all that matter.

 

[romufc]

You think we wanted to control the game for the first 60 minutes and then knew we had great options on the bench.

I think we were scared to lose and then threw on subs to see what happened. We've done it before but it is not a good way to play. I don't believe it was all part of a masterplan, particularly as Germany missed some fantastic chances early in the game.

Yeah, we were a bit negative but we haven't beaten a top team in a major tournament in a very long time. However; you cannot take anything away from England. Germany, as shown in the group stages can blow a team away, we stopped their strengths in the first half

Fantastic chances early on? England had 2/3 very good chances in the first half also and then in the second half it was almost all England.

 

[Devil81]

People are so scared we are going to mess this up, I've heard such negativity off people all morning and yet I'm the polar opposite.

Without disrespecting Ukraine too much they were out on their feet after 80 minutes last night, their main players were dropping like flies and they were very fortunate Sweden were equally as exhausted. England should be going into the game Saturday with one thing on their mind, making a real statement that we aren't going to struggle with these sides any longer. Maguire has made an incredible difference at the back and we can switch back to the four at the back to allow either Grealish or Mount to come in as that attacking midfielder.

It's horses for courses as far as I'm concerned, we shouldn't be thinking about five at the back unless we really need to be worried about a team and I don't think we should be that worried about any team on our side of the draw. Respectful, we should defo be respectful of our opponents but not worried, I genuinely believe Southgate has managed his squad far better than the other nations who all seem to have thrown so much into it already, we look like we've just turned up to the party in fairness.

 

[LDUred]

Or maybe, just maybe the only person with skin in the game is you, as a Utd fan.The only person who hasn’t played professional football is you. Have you ever considered that you are the common denominator in matches where you watch Shaw play and don’t feel he gets the required level of credit?

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa...hold up.

I'm not offended on Shaw's behalf. I just think it's bizarre that he seems to get criticized excessively by Jenas, even when he's having a good game. Jenas was talking about Shaw like he was an inexperienced rookie.

Mourinho has always had a fair number of yes men in the game who nod along with him and Jenas is probably one of them doing his bidding.

Give Shaw his due, he laid on a goal and was instrumental in another. He also had a blemish free game defensively. I don't think he was the reason England won but he deserved a few more plaudits than he got.

 

[11101]

Yeah, we were a bit negative but we haven't beaten a top team in a major tournament in a very long time. However; you cannot take anything away from England. Germany, as shown in the group stages can blow a team away, we stopped their strengths in the first half

Fantastic chances early on? England had 2/3 very good chances in the first half also and then in the second half it was almost all England.

The criticism i have for Southgate is a bit the same as I have for Ole.

We rely on the individuals to win games, not tactics. For England it's been Grealish. For Ole it's Bruno. It's not a sustainable way to play as if you mark that player out of the game (as may happen to Grealish as we get deep into the tournament, he's not Maradona) the team appears clueless as it doesn't have the tactical setup to fall back on.

Saying that, we have an easy route to the final now. We should be disappointed if we don't get there and form, tactics and everything else goes out of the window at that point.

 

[romufc]

The criticism i have for Southgate is a bit the same as I have for Ole.

We rely on the individuals to win games, not tactics. For England it's been Grealish. For Ole it's Bruno. It's not a sustainable way to play as if you mark that player out of the game (as may happen to Grealish as we get deep into the tournament, he's not Maradona) the team appears clueless as it doesn't have the tactical setup to fall back on.

I can see where you are coming from in that respect.

However; 0 goals conceded all tournament. The team spirit like at United has come from the manager, they are playing as a unit.

There has to be some tactical input from the manager to set up and not concede a goal so far.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I think we were scared to lose and then threw on subs to see what happened. We've done it before but it is not a good way to play. I don't believe it was all part of a masterplan, particularly as Germany missed some fantastic chances early in the game.

Do you really think that the gameplan was so shallow and simple, really?

Germany missed some fantastic chances early in the game.

They had one good chance in the first half?

http://www.soccer-blogger.com/2021/...hots-map-england-2-0-deutschland-match-stats/

 

[P-Nut]

I just don't think as an English person now is the time to be negative. Enjoy the next few days, stop worrying.

Definitely this, these tournaments come round too rarely to be negative about them every time. Enjoy the ride and get behind the side.

 

[RobinLFC]

Do you really think that the gameplan was so shallow and simple, really?

Then what was it? I don't remember any good English well-played attacks or chances before the one hour mark apart from a Sterling long range shot. So either the gameplan failed, or the gameplan was to be cautious and first of all make sure not to concede then take it from there.

 

[11101]

Do you really think that the gameplan was so shallow and simple, really?

Yes. Defend like crazy (7 defensive players) until the opponent gets worn out and then bring on a catalyst player to try and nick a goal. It's a tried and tested mid-lower table tactic in the league.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Then what was it? I don't remember any good English well-played attacks or chances before the one hour mark apart from a Sterling long range shot. So either the gameplan failed, or the gameplan was to be cautious and first of all make sure not to concede then take it from there.

The gameplan was to nulify Germany's wing backs which had been the key feature of their success in the tournament so far by matching their back five. Against Portugal they had numerous overloads against their back 4 which is why they put 4 past them. The midfield pressed high up the pitch to stop their midfield getting a hold on the game. It was to contain and take our chances which we did.

Honestly I have no idea what you're on about saying that England didn't create a chance until after 60 minutes. Is this the strange world that we now live in where people somehow try to claim that creating big chances after 60 minutes is a negative?! a higher proportion of goals are scored in the latter part of the game as the players get tired.

Yes. Defend like crazy (7 defensive players) until the opponent gets worn out and then bring on a catalyst player to try and nick a goal. It's a tried and tested mid-lower table tactic in the league.

It's also how countless sides win major international tournaments.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

I’m conflicted on Southgate.

He got England to a World Cup semi final for the first time since 1990, and it looks like England are going to go a long way in this tournament for the first time since 1996. I also criticised his team selection today but tactically he was spot on. It never felt like Germany took control of the game away from England, and the line up was a big part of that.

I’ve mostly been underwhelmed by England’s performances in these last two tournaments though. I thought we were awful against Scotland, and average at best against Croatia & the Czech Republic. Back in 2018 England edged through Tunisia, beat a rookie in Panama and lost to a superior side in Belgium. We then unimpressively navigated Colombia, beat a poor Sweden side and got outclassed by Croatia.

I don’t see Southgate as a great manager but one who seems to be getting the job done in tournaments (which is far better than his predecessors tbf) but I feel like England should be playing better as a team considering the players he has available.

I’m fine with him staying on as England manager but I’d like to see better from him in terms of performance and style of play. I suppose it’s hard with national sides but we’re seeing Mancini do it with Italy.

If by predecessors, you mean the last decade or so, probably right but back a bit further and it's chalk and cheese.

86, 90 and 96 all played better and while not unlucky as such, were arguably unfortunate to lose... Hand of God, played well/pens, played well/pens... while playing good football too. The three teams they lost to were (a) very good teams and (b) won the tournament. Compare that to Southgate performances and while he has reached the knockouts, you correctly list the (average) teams he's mainly been up against and their performances.

I'd say Robson and Venables got to the latter stages because they deserved to (slow start in 86 yes, bit of a scare v Cameroon in 90 yes). You can only beat what's in front of you and team/tactics v Germany turned out ok (Sterling/Kane scores, Muller misses, fine margins) so well done to him there but it still feels like Southgate's tournament progress (a semi and a quarter) is blurring reality slightly and not an easy 'watch'.

But I guess any/most international team would take progress over performance?

(I'm probably not explaining it well).

 

[RobinLFC]

The gameplan was to nulify Germany's wing backs which had been the key feature of their success in the tournament so far by matching their back five. Against Portugal they had numerous overloads against their back 4 which is why they put 4 past them. The midfield pressed high up the pitch to stop their midfield getting a hold on the game. It was to contain and take our chances which we did.

Honestly I have no idea what you're on about saying that England didn't create a chance until after 60 minutes. Is this the strange world that we now live in where people somehow try to claim that creating big chances after 60 minutes is a negative?! a higher proportion of goals are scored in the latter part of the game as the players get tired.

With 60 minutes I essentially meant "after subs were made". Your explanation sounds a lot more technical than mine but it comes down to the same thing: making sure Germany don't score was the #1 priority, nothing wrong with that. But what was the attacking gameplan? He set up his team to nullify Germany, there was no attacking gameplan. It basically does come down to this what @11101 said imo:

I think we were scared to lose and then threw on subs to see what happened. We've done it before but it is not a good way to play. I don't believe it was all part of a masterplan.

Make sure your opponent don't score, then take it from there. The main objective from the get go certainly wasn't "we're gonna do it this way or that way in order to beat them", it was "let's set up this way or that way in order for them not to score on us / beat us". There is nothing particularly wrong with that, and it worked, but it's a kind of negative way to approach a game, nullifying your opponent rather than going off your own strengths. As you say though it's an effective tactic and it works in international tournament, it's not necessarily criticism for Southgate but it's not how I'd want my team (Liverpool or Belgium) to set up, that's all.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

With 60 minutes I essentially meant "after subs were made". Your explanation sounds a lot more technical than mine but it comes down to the same thing: making sure Germany don't score was the #1 priority, nothing wrong with that. But what was the attacking gameplan? He set up his team to nullify Germany, there was no attacking gameplan. It basically does come down to this what @11101 said imo:



Make sure your opponent don't score, then take it from there. The main objective from the get go certainly wasn't "we're gonna do it this way or that way in order to beat them", it was "let's set up this way or that way in order for them not to score on us / beat us". There is nothing particularly wrong with that, and it worked, but it's a kind of negative way to approach a game, nullifying your opponent rather than going off your own strengths. As you say though it's an effective tactic and it works in international tournament, it's not necessarily criticism for Southgate but it's not how I'd want my team (Liverpool or Belgium) to set up, that's all.

It's not how I'd want United to play but international football is completely different to club football. You can't go out and buy players to fix holes, you have to make compromises with the players that you have. The other factors are that tournaments come in the summer so player are more tired whilst being asked to play in more challenging weather conditions. There's also a much higher aspect of jeopardy or 'noise' in international football than club football, one mistake and you're done for another 2 years.

Belgium have been very lucky so far. They've been outplayed by Portugal and Denmark but have taken the win. It's reasonable to say that their approach is a much more high risk strategy less likely to yield success than England's, in the context of international football

 

[Bilbo]

It depends how you perceive it. Is a WC semi (during a piss easy draw) and a euro final (another slightly favourable draw) good enough for this group of players?

The last good German team won the world cup yet some fans think they blew a great generation of players by only winning one cup in that time.

If you think the best these England players can get are a semi and a final then fair enough.

For me, the style is irrelevant, the trophies are all that matter.

Of course its easy to reduce it to simply a '1st is 1st and 2nd is nowhere' argument, and you're not wrong, but the fact is that every World Cup and Euros tournament is going to be stacked with strong opposition so its far easier to not win anything than it is to win one of them. This England team is not complete. We have a very ordinary set of options in midfield and have to tailor our tactics to accommodate that. Its also a squad littered with players that lack a lot of experience and we've gone into this tournament without a clear idea of what our best team is.

I didn't really have any set expectations going into this. I think we could easily have blown up and had a poor tournament, but Southgate has been extremely brave with his selections and so far they've worked for us and we now look as well placed to win one as we have since 96. Whatever happens I think we will be strong contenders for the next World Cup.

 

[WR]

Just signed up for tickets via the UEFA portal if England get to the final. Guessing the chances are virtually non existent?

 

[11101]

It's also how countless sides win major international tournaments.

Is it? The only one i can think of in about the last 30 years has been Greece in 2002. France, Germany, Spain and Brazil definitely didn't. Portugal didn't, nor Italy despite their defensive prowess.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Is it? The only one i can think of in about the last 30 years has been Greece in 2002. France, Germany, Spain and Brazil definitely didn't. Portugal didn't, nor Italy despite their defensive prowess.

Ask any Portugal fan how they set up or any France fan. Deschamps is criticised for exactly the same reasons Southgate is. Deschamps literally started the game agaisnt Switzerland with a back 5 the other day! Portugal have a style inspred by Mourinho. Portugal won the last Euro by drawing all their group games. They won one game in normal time and led for only 70 minutes in the whole tournament!

 

[hubbuh]

@ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg I think I was being too harsh on Southgate yesterday. Keeping a clean sheet in all your games so far in the tournament has got to count for something and he deserves credit for that. I'm just mightily annoyed about his overly cautious gameplan since imo you could be even better if certain changes (in approach and personnel) are made, but it's all about the wins and so far it's paying dividends.

I still think he's not the right guy and you would be doing even better with a better manager, but I was being too drastic yesterday.

I don't any think of the big national teams with stacked squads are playing particularly ambitious football. Italy and Spain are the only really entertaining sides, the likes of Belgium, France, and Portugal have all been typically boring. It's working, though. Zero goals conceded in 4 games in a cup tournament is seriously good going and bodes well.

 

[11101]

Ask any Portugal fan how they set up or any France fan. Deschamps is criticised for exactly the same reasons Southgate is. Deschamps literally started the game agaisnt Switzerland with a back 5 the other day! Portugal have a style inspred by Mourinho. Portugal won the last Euro by drawing all their group games. I don't think won a game in normal time and led for only 70 minutes in the whole tournament!

Yeah, and France went out in a damp squib. I'm talking about when they won in 2018. They scored early all tournament.

Portugal weren't exactly set up defensively, they weren't good enough. They just managed to score when they needed to score and got lucky with their games.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Ask any Portugal fan how they set up or any France fan. Deschamps is criticised for exactly the same reasons Southgate is. Deschamps literally started the game agaisnt Switzerland with a back 5 the other day! Portugal have a style inspred by Mourinho. Portugal won the last Euro by drawing all their group games. They won one game in normal time and led for only 70 minutes in the whole tournament!

I'm not getting into the "are England uniquely negative" element of these posts but just an observation.

Frances wingbacks were miles higher up the pitch and they have Pogba in midfield (they also got knocked out mind though a good part of that was their own fault)

 

[sewey89]

This 'lucky' narrative is fecking ridiculous. England have been the better team in every game we've won.

We've not conceded a goal and yesterday was our best performance. We're getting better as the tournament goes on, which is perfect.

Clearly it's not the most entertaining to watch. But who gives a feck

 

[hellhunter]

This 'lucky' narrative is fecking ridiculous. England have been the better team in every game we've won.

We've not conceded a goal and yesterday was our best performance. We're getting better as the tournament goes on, which is perfect.

Clearly it's not the most entertaining to watch. But who gives a feck

Spot on. All teams had poor phases so far, England never really lost control of any of their matches.

 

[africanspur]

It depends how you perceive it. Is a WC semi (during a piss easy draw) and a euro final (another slightly favourable draw) good enough for this group of players?

The last good German team won the world cup yet some fans think they blew a great generation of players by only winning one cup in that time.

If you think the best these England players can get are a semi and a final then fair enough.

For me, the style is irrelevant, the trophies are all that matter.

It depends really.

There's a balance between not being arrogant and getting ahead of ourselves and realising that, on paper, the route to the final is now a pretty good one.

But the flip side I guess is that we haven't reached a final in 55 years. We haven't won a knockout game against Germany in that time. We almost never beat what could be classed as a top International side in a match that matters, which other fans delight in reminding us. We usually lose penalties. As far as I can tell, we've reached the semi final once in the nation's entire history in competitions where we were not hosting the tournament.

Germany have won 4 world cups and 3 Euros. German fans have a right to expect a bit more from their squads.

We've had 'top' squads before and underachieved. Of course we all want to win but a little realism and understanding of what our level tends to actually be wouldn't go amiss either I think, when having these comparisons.