Agreed. I don't see the need for Rice and Phillips. I think a deeper lying playmaker alongside Rice would work well. It should in theory, be more defensively secure than having a midfield three of Rice, Foden, Bellingham, which I know a lot of people want to see.
England Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
It's not needed and it negates from what the England team excels at and has quality in the individuals. If England had a manager like Pep then it would be scrapped immediately.
I'd be tempted to take just one other striker alongside Kane if the the form of the wide players are good, as it would feel like the third striker spot is a bit of a waste.
If I had to pick two and this is assuming they are fit and playing regularly, I would go for Wilson and Toney. Feels harsh on Watkins who I think provides a different dimension as a forward but think the back up options are good. DCL is a long way off from making the squad.
Only due to fitness which you said you'd ignore at the start of the post! He and Toney have the highest goalscoring season out of all of them (21 overall goals).
It really will just come down to who is in the best form come the end of the season and is fit because they all have a good claim to go ability wise. I think they're all a similar level (15-20 goal a season striker).
Watkins over Wilson every day of the week for me. He runs the channels and stretches defenders a lot more effectively than Wilson.
I’d like to see a midfield of Jude, Trent and Rice. Then start Walker at RB for the defense and overlaps with Saka
I've probably judged DCL harshly because of his injuries last season and not knowing what to expect from him in this campaign, so I have a bit more confidence in the others to perform at a higher level than DCL this season. I do agree with you that it should just come down to form, they're all good strikers in their own right, different skillsets but each of them could be useful player to have.
I definitely hope for a move to this style of midfield. I really liked the Milan team with a deeper playmaker at the base and I think it’ll help with possession, as you say, and building from the back. Issues that England have struggled with in the past. I still like Rice as a player, however it’s good to have flexibility too.
------------------Pickford---------------------
Walker---Stones ---Guehi ----Shaw
---------------Rice ----------------------------
----------------------------Foden------------
Saka-------Bellingham-----Rashford
---------------------Kane-----------------------
-----------------------------Pope or Ramsdale--------------------------
James or Trent---Maguire---Dunk---Trippier or Chillwell
----------------------Phillips---------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------JWP-----------------------------------
Bowen----------------------Maddison-----------------------Grealish
--------------------Wilson/Watkins/Toney/DCL---------------------
Walker---Stones ---Guehi ----Shaw
---------------Rice ----------------------------
----------------------------Foden------------
Saka-------Bellingham-----Rashford
---------------------Kane-----------------------
-----------------------------Pope or Ramsdale--------------------------
James or Trent---Maguire---Dunk---Trippier or Chillwell
----------------------Phillips---------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------JWP-----------------------------------
Bowen----------------------Maddison-----------------------Grealish
--------------------Wilson/Watkins/Toney/DCL---------------------
A scrappy win against a crap Italy engineered by simply having superior players is nothing to shout about.
You can tell Southgate's thought process in the run-up to this game: "I want to play Henderson or Phillips, but the idiot fans are booing Henderson because he plays in the Saudi league, what do I do?! What are the options?! Well that leaves, Phillips. but he's not playing for his club regularly. Argh! What a headache, those are literally the only two options I have as I have to have two DMs or all kinds of chaos will come afoot. If only I could put some other player in there, BUT I LITERALLY CAN"T!!'.
You can tell Southgate's thought process in the run-up to this game: "I want to play Henderson or Phillips, but the idiot fans are booing Henderson because he plays in the Saudi league, what do I do?! What are the options?! Well that leaves, Phillips. but he's not playing for his club regularly. Argh! What a headache, those are literally the only two options I have as I have to have two DMs or all kinds of chaos will come afoot. If only I could put some other player in there, BUT I LITERALLY CAN"T!!'.
reckon Southgate knows the midfield options next to Rice are either crap or out of position bodgejobs, can understand why he sticks with what he knows until someone worthwhile comes along, the clamour for James Ward Prowse feels forced, he’s James Ward Prowse. Trippier’s good at set pieces anyway
I see he's told Phillips he needs to start getting regular game time....
Bet your bottom dollar he won't have told our Harold that. He'll keep getting picked
Bet your bottom dollar he won't have told our Harold that. He'll keep getting picked
There's nothing merky about it. Taking the knee is an equally large pile of bullshit, which serves no purpose.
England took the knee against Senegal in the world cup and not a single Senegalise player joined them in doing so, just let that sink in. Do you not see how ridiculous that is?
Please dont confuse this for me saying that black lives do not matter, as that's certainly not the point i'm trying to make, but professional footballers taking the knee as a token gesture isnt going to change anything regarding the political or humanisation issue at play, so i'm questioning why it even exists in the first place?
No. Considering historical context, no.
You'd only see it as ridiculous if you were ignorant of the historical context.
But it raises awareness of a vitally important social issue. Just because it won't directly lead to the end of racial injustice around the world doesn't mean there's no merit in it as a way of highlighting the issue.
I do think there's merit in questioning whether that work has been done now and it's still needed (obviously not saying that the exact same problems don't still exist, more whether the gesture has had all the impact it can have by now). But to question why it existed in the first place is to miss the point.
Go on then, do tell..
Reminds me of Mourinho and his obsession with two DMFs no matter the opposition.
I do understand it though. The two obvious midfield options we have are attacking players in Foden (who plays wide more often than not) and Maddison. I think it's fair to say that they would both be better suited to being the most advanced midfielder. While he's capable of playing a deeper role, is the switch worth bringing Bellingham deeper to fit in Foden or Maddison?
ETH could be helping Southgate make a decision with Mount though. If Mount can successfully play in a deeper midfield role alongside Casemiro/Amrabat and Bruno then I think Southgate may just use Mount in the deeper role and continue allowing Bellingham to be the most advanced midfielder.
Yeah we could definitely do with a metronome,so how many strikers do we think Southgate will take to the Euros?. Personally feel we could do with 3 who all offer something different to position.
Surely got to give Rice-Bellingham-Maddison a run as midfield trio for the final two qualifiers at least.
Gareth it may just work!!!
Gareth it may just work!!!
I saw James Ward-Prowse played in a double pivot for West Ham at the weekend. I was thinking he would be a much better option than Kalvin Phillips alongside Rice.
Not a fan of that personally. I feel like it needs a minimum of one more player to chip in.
Bellingham often has three midfielders helping him which gives him the freedom to pick and choose when to drop deep and progress play in the first and second phase, and also when to be diligent in his defensive work. Against Osasuna, that was Camavinga, Modric and Valverde and he had an aerial presence in Joselu that acted as a foil for Bellingham's offensive forays. Against Napoli that was Kroos, Valverde and Tchouameni helping their side win the midfield battle. There's a theme of him being supported by multiple midfielders, and he wouldn't quite have that if the profile of the players he was alongside were Rice and Maddison, as the latter also needs that foundation of players helping him in midfield.
With Maddison, not only is he supported by both Sarr and Bissouma in midfield, but there's also the positional play of full backs Udogie and Porro coming infield which greatly enhances Spurs' midfield dynamic.
However, if he did experiment with that midfield trio in the final two qualifiers, I would prefer it, if he utilised Walker differently to how he's currently being utilised, and have him playing more infield to help Declan Rice. Additionally, England would need attacking options in Foden/Grealish or even Cole Palmer to take greater responsibility in helping England dictate the midfield .
Otherwise, the personal preference I was alluding to wouId be to adopt a slightly similar formation to Real Madrid with Saka fulfilling the role of Vincius Junior, and it would allow Bellingham and Maddison to have two players (Rice and one other deeper midfielder) helping out in midfield, and I would tweak the system to include an inverted full back to provide additional assistance. Would like to see more trial and error for Rice's partner, with perhaps Ward Prowse as the poster below me suggested, and I haven't watched Connor Gallagher at club level this season, but the Chelsea fans appear to be bullish on him now. Then after the tournament, take Archie Gray from Leeds under his wing, as a wildcard and really give him some council. Would love to see Rice with Archie Gray in a set up with players full of international experience to help him come into his own.
To me I like and think variety is essential in a tournament so the more options the better. This goes for midfield and up front where we will face different types of systems.
I think the strikers will be decided by the form of the wide players and whether Southgate thinks Rashford can play up top alone. Clearly Kane goes and for me I’d like another target man but with maybe more pace and agility. Then if there are more wide players who can get goals are in form that may be it.
All this is form dependent of course but a little caveat is that it’s a 23 rather than 26.
What’s the hierarchy after Harry though I’d like to know? Both for the gaffer and the fans.
Yet another clean sheet.
Any chance Eddie Howe gets the sack around New Year and Southgate gets involved in some sex scandal or something and Howe replaces him?
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That was a tough watch.
So Southgate nipped over to Holland yesterday to watch Jordan Henderson.
The question is, why? Like, he's watched Henderson shit tons anyway, does he expect him to have turned into Messi overnight?
Why is he even considered for the England squad still? He's shite.
The question is, why? Like, he's watched Henderson shit tons anyway, does he expect him to have turned into Messi overnight?
Why is he even considered for the England squad still? He's shite.
England don't have the cbs to trust with one DM though. The position that needs players identified for is the second pivot player. It should prefferbly be a player with the passing range of an 8 who is or can operate as a 6. As for Phillips, he gets picked because he is currently the only natural back up fof Rice as the defensive 6.
That is the second problem position.
Mainoo in the future, do we think?
It could restrict Bellingham. Plus unless like Stones kept pushing into midfield to support Rice. It would open up problems on the counter, since the fullbacks would be expected to join in attack...
He has a great chance. Meanwhile I'm still disapointed Ward -Prowse has been blocked from staking a claim to be Rice's double pivot partner by the strange love Southgate has for a past it Henderson...Although now TAA looks like he wants the role for his own
A good excuse for a free weekend in Amsterdam?
But it's not a good excuse, it's just blatant bullshit for a holiday.
Agreed, Henderson should be nowhere near it now. I like JW-P but it does look like TAA could be a good fit there now too.
You sound like his wife!
One of those work trips where you push the limits for what you can get on expenses.
'So you spent a night in Amsterdam?'
'Yep. Henderson plays there. I wanted to see if he's still good enough for selection.'
'And these receipts from the Heineken museum...?'
Because Southgate is so conservative he will cost England big time in the summer. Why Henderson would be anywhere near that team is scandalous
More likely to find him in a different type of establishment with pool balls inserted in every orifice
He's far too vanilla for that. Reckon he'll politely decline an offer from anyone who approaches him down the red light district and be tucked up in bed by 10pm.
I really like the look of TAA in midfield. For me Rice, TAA with Bellingham at 10 is the best England midfield 3 currently.