England at World Cup 2014

Am I the only person who thinks this playing Gerrard as the deepest midfielder thing is going to end in disaster for England?

Liverpool conceded 50 goals this season. People talk about England playing the "Liverpool way" and all the rest of it but that team was a shambles defensively with Gerrard in that role and the teams that reach a world cup final are usually the ones with the best defensive records.

Spain conceded, if memory serves, 0 goals in their knockout games at the last world cup. Italy only conceded 1 goal and that was in the finals.

I don't mean to be one of those people who say "Oh we need to be tight at the back first and foremost and then build from there" but its kind of the truth.

England aren't the best team offensively at the world cup and world cup games are usually low scoring affairs compared to club football, the Liverpool mentality at least in my view was based on outscoring opponents. That won't work at international level as defences are stronger, the games are more cagey and England don't have a Luis Suarez.

I also find it very fanciful to expect players with little international experience (Sterling and Barkley in particular) to go out and steal the show. Isn't that the same thing that happened with Rooney and all the pressure that was placed on his shoulders at a young age? Didn't help him after Euro 2004.

Trying to employ a club's style of football at international level to a team that has never played like that before with different players in a one off tournament that starts in a little over a week against teams who are stronger than the average club side will not work in my opinion.

People are just getting too caught up in the Liverpool hype lately. Season ended last month, world cup is in June. If England are to employ a style of play similar to that and throw (let's face it) a long footballing tradition of playing a certain way then it isn't going to happen in the space of a month. It should be a long, gradual process where the fruits of that labour would bear fruit at the next Euros/World cup.

What should the team do? I don't have a clue in all honesty but I just hope they don't get caught up in the hype and try to play a certain style of football when they don't have the players for it
 
JSArsenal said:
Am I the only person who thinks this playing Gerrard as the deepest midfielder thing is going to end in disaster for England?

Liverpool conceded 50 goals this season. People talk about England playing the "Liverpool way" and all the rest of it but that team was a shambles defensively with Gerrard in that role and the teams that reach a world cup final are usually the ones with the best defensive records.

Spain conceded, if memory serves, 0 goals in their knockout games at the last world cup. Italy only conceded 1 goal and that was in the finals.

I don't mean to be one of those people who say "Oh we need to be tight at the back first and foremost and then build from there" but its kind of the truth.

England aren't the best team offensively at the world cup and world cup games are usually low scoring affairs compared to club football, the Liverpool mentality at least in my view was based on outscoring opponents. That won't work at international level as defences are stronger, the games are more cagey and England don't have a Luis Suarez.

I also find it very fanciful to expect players with little international experience (Sterling and Barkley in particular) to go out and steal the show. Isn't that the same thing that happened with Rooney and all the pressure that was placed on his shoulders at a young age? Didn't help him after Euro 2004.

Trying to employ a club's style of football at international level to a team that has never played like that before with different players in a one off tournament that starts in a little over a week against teams who are stronger than the average club side will not work in my opinion.

People are just getting too caught up in the Liverpool hype lately. Season ended last month, world cup is in June. If England are to employ a style of play similar to that and throw (let's face it) a long footballing tradition of playing a certain way then it isn't going to happen in the space of a month. It should be a long, gradual process where the fruits of that labour would bear fruit at the next Euros/World cup.

What should the team do? I don't have a clue in all honesty but I just hope they don't get caught up in the hype and try to play a certain style of football when they don't have the players for it
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Well Hodgson didn't select any defensive midfielders such as Carrick or Barry, so there is no point going defensive if you don't have the players for it
Might as well just go for it and see what happens
What's the worst that could happen? Crash out in the group stage?
That would be just as likely as if we played with Carrick, Barry and Gerrard in a midfield 3 and parked the bus
 
JefferiesTube said:
Well Hodgson didn't select any defensive midfielders such as Carrick or Barry, so there is no point going defensive if you don't have the players for it
Might as well just go for it and see what happens
What's the worst that could happen? Crash out in the group stage?
That would be just as likely as if we played with Carrick, Barry and Gerrard in a midfield 3 and parked the bus
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This is the thing though, without proper defensive midfielders England doesnt have cover for the backline. Means when England do push up them full backs and then get exploited. England will be catch out on the counter. I will have faith however on Gerrard doing the job in playing a deeper role, pulling the strings from a deep position and playing a xabi alonso kind of role, but again he's not the best defensive midfielder so that could back fire on England.

Really it comes down to the style of play and the set out. Obviously is wanting to play a more offensive this tournament and i have no problem with that considering England has been parking the bus too long, but i am worried England will be catch out if England do go too offensive.
 
FacerTheRed said:
This is the thing though, without proper defensive midfielders England doesnt have cover for the backline. Means when England do push up them full backs and then get exploited. England will be catch out on the counter. I will have faith however on Gerrard doing the job in playing a deeper role, pulling the strings from a deep position and playing a xabi alonso kind of role, but again he's not the best defensive midfielder so that could back fire on England.

Really it comes down to the style of play and the set out. Obviously is wanting to play a more offensive this tournament and i have no problem with that considering England has been parking the bus too long, but i am worried England will be catch out if England do go too offensive.
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Look at it this way, we might not have chosen any defensive midfielders apart from Gerrard, if he can be classed as a defensive midfielder, but we have at least included 4 central defenders in the squad
Chile have chosen to go with no central defenders in their squad :wenger:
 
Jones should be played just infront of the back 4 imo, should of been carrick or barry but i guess woy has other ideas. Playing gerrard there will be catastrophic and the only reason it kinda worked for liverpool is because they obviously scored a shit load. We arent going to score a shit load and rooney isnt as good as suarez so we cant rely on him to score a shed load and win us games so we will have to make sure we tighten up at the back.
 
With 6 7 players in the 30, I suppose I am obliged to cheer a bit for England.

I will be booing Rooney though.
 
People discuss Rooney, but what they should be talking about is Milner's place in this team as well as who exactly is our cover for Gerrard in deep DM/CM role? Lampard can't play there, Wilshere also is not suited for it. I think Hogson should have taken Barry or Carrick to Brazil. And then he needs to decide whether he want Ox, Barley or Milner. Because Ox, Lallana, Sterling - all can play at right wing position, we are overstocked there.
 
I am at a loss as to why England are playing their warm up games at Wembley and in Miami. Surely they should be trying to acclimatise to the conditions in South America, just an excuse to have a knees up and go round all the expensive shops.
 
Wilshere is too far off the pace as he seems to be half the time recently. Gerrard and Henderson in centre mid.

Jones was a bit shaky in the first half but not helped by Smalling and much better 2nd half. I'd start Jones over Johnson at full back because we're quite simply not going to see enough of the ball to make use of Johnson's better attacking. Jagielka and Cahill start by default.

Lambert impressed me tonight as he has a couple of times against decent opposition. Rooney looked ok on the left, lacks the pace of Welbeck but always more likely to get a goal. We've gone from having nobody who plays in those AM areas to having Rooney, Sterling, Barkley, Lallana, Ox (injured now) and others all in with a shout.

It's
Hart
Jones Cahill Jagielka Baines
Gerrard Henderson
Sterling/Rooney/+1
Sturridge
 
JSArsenal said:
Am I the only person who thinks this playing Gerrard as the deepest midfielder thing is going to end in disaster for England?

Liverpool conceded 50 goals this season. People talk about England playing the "Liverpool way" and all the rest of it but that team was a shambles defensively with Gerrard in that role and the teams that reach a world cup final are usually the ones with the best defensive records.

Spain conceded, if memory serves, 0 goals in their knockout games at the last world cup. Italy only conceded 1 goal and that was in the finals.

I don't mean to be one of those people who say "Oh we need to be tight at the back first and foremost and then build from there" but its kind of the truth.

England aren't the best team offensively at the world cup and world cup games are usually low scoring affairs compared to club football, the Liverpool mentality at least in my view was based on outscoring opponents. That won't work at international level as defences are stronger, the games are more cagey and England don't have a Luis Suarez.

I also find it very fanciful to expect players with little international experience (Sterling and Barkley in particular) to go out and steal the show. Isn't that the same thing that happened with Rooney and all the pressure that was placed on his shoulders at a young age? Didn't help him after Euro 2004.

Trying to employ a club's style of football at international level to a team that has never played like that before with different players in a one off tournament that starts in a little over a week against teams who are stronger than the average club side will not work in my opinion.

People are just getting too caught up in the Liverpool hype lately. Season ended last month, world cup is in June. If England are to employ a style of play similar to that and throw (let's face it) a long footballing tradition of playing a certain way then it isn't going to happen in the space of a month. It should be a long, gradual process where the fruits of that labour would bear fruit at the next Euros/World cup.

What should the team do? I don't have a clue in all honesty but I just hope they don't get caught up in the hype and try to play a certain style of football when they don't have the players for it
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No it won't. Gerrard can do passes that Lampard or Henderson can't do. He allows England to be more versatile. As far as attacking talent, I think England has a lot of attacking talent, Hodgson just has to play them. Look how much more threatening they look with a creative player behind the striker?
 
This is how all the defenders and midfielders performed for their clubs this season in each position
7.78 Gerrard 33 games as CM
7.61 Jones 9 games as CM
7.41 Jones 15 games as CB
7.27 Baines 31 games as LB
7.27 Smalling 15 games as RB
7.27 Smalling 12 games as CB
7.26 Jagielka 26 games as CB
7.24 Cahill 39 games as CB
7.23 Lampard 29 games as CM
7.14 Shaw 35 games as LB
7.07 Johnson 25 games as RB
7.04 Jones 8 games as RB

Someone who was overlooked who had a good season and can play LB/RB
7.4 Ward 12 games as LB
7.3 Ward 18 games as RB
He is a solid fullback for Palace, but overlooked, because he plays for Palace?
 
Who'll replace him if he is out? Carrick? Cleverley? Or will Roy bring in one of Flanagan or Stones?
 
So Sterling is out of the third friendly then, if not for the injury to Chamberlain i'd have seen that as sealing his place on the bench against Italy.
 
Raoul said:
So can the Ox be replaced if he's injured or is it too late for that ?
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Yes he can still be replaced i believe. And with the lamentable defensive contribution made by England's second string midfield against Ecuador, i'd like to think that Carrick would get the nod.
 
Lane said:
People discuss Rooney, but what they should be talking about is Milner's place in this team as well as who exactly is our cover for Gerrard in deep DM/CM role? Lampard can't play there, Wilshere also is not suited for it. I think Hogson should have taken Barry or Carrick to Brazil. And then he needs to decide whether he want Ox, Barley or Milner. Because Ox, Lallana, Sterling - all can play at right wing position, we are overstocked there.
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Yep, I'm still so surprised at Barry being overlooked. Complete mystery to me and that's where I think you could be hurt this World Cup. Oh, and right back too obviously.
 
Acole9 said:
I am at a loss as to why England are playing their warm up games at Wembley and in Miami. Surely they should be trying to acclimatise to the conditions in South America, just an excuse to have a knees up and go round all the expensive shops.
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It looked pretty hot at 3pm in Miami
 
Lampard really isn't up to it in the middle of the pitch anymore... no need for him to be going to the World Cup really.
 
Should have Carrick and Barry instead of Lampard and Milner

Both Carrick and Barry are much more effective as DM

Why is Milner is the squad at all when he had hardly played for City and is not even strong in any particular area, just a jack of all trades, master of none type of player
 
CrashDavis said:
Yep, I'm still so surprised at Barry being overlooked. Complete mystery to me and that's where I think you could be hurt this World Cup. Oh, and right back too obviously.
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Given how brutally Barry's pace was exposed at the last world cup, its not really a great surprise he's not being taken this time.
 
JulesWinnfield said:
Given how brutally Barry's pace was exposed at the last world cup, its not really a great surprise he's not being taken this time.
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Even with pace exposed he is surely better than Lampard in this role today. Or Wilshere.
 
JulesWinnfield said:
Given how brutally Barry's pace was exposed at the last world cup, its not really a great surprise he's not being taken this time.
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That is true, but he had a good season for Everton and there isn't exactly a strong replacement who has come in
A lot of the squad were poor at last World Cup, yet they still managed to get in
 
I think if Ox injured, Milner can cover at RM area, so England need to bring in an orthodox DM, either Carrick or Barry. Every other option for Gerrard's cover is just simply a folly.
 
He'll probably bring Stones/Flanagan because they're already there - which would be daft, but there you go.

He needs extra cover in that midfield, today's game was evidence of that.
 
JulesWinnfield said:
Given how brutally Barry's pace was exposed at the last world cup, its not really a great surprise he's not being taken this time.
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That's true, but he may not be as badly exposed with the way you're set up now, plus he wasn't the only one who looked all over the shop four years ago.
 
Whilst Jones might have received some criticism for his first half display at centre back, he is now probably the best option as a DM were Gerrard be unavailable at some point. I should not want to see Lampard being given the job that's for sure, so one hopes that the vice-captaincy is more of a ceremonial title.
 
1010606_England.jpg


They play a diamond midfield with 3 of them attacking and 1 a holding DM

A more attacking variation would be to drop Gerrard back to DM and add another attacking player to play central between STs and DM

There are lots of different options in midfield as long as 3 of them are attacking and they play in a suitable position

I add Ward and Carrick even though they not in the squad because Ward is a solid FB and Carrick is a good DM

Barry can be another option and for FB? Johnson or one of the kids Flanagan or Stones?

Milner and Jones are both bad choices
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Whilst Jones might have received some criticism for his first half display at centre back, he is now probably the best option as a DM were Gerrard be unavailable at some point. I should not want to see Lampard being given the job that's for sure, so one hopes that the vice-captaincy is more of a ceremonial title.
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Jones would be very good defensive option as DM in the team above, maybe could go with that against strong teams, but I like to attack
 
JefferiesTube said:
1010606_England.jpg


They play a diamond midfield with 3 of them attacking and 1 a holding DM

A more attacking variation would be to drop Gerrard back to DM and add another attacking player to play central between STs and DM

There are lots of different options in midfield as long as 3 of them are attacking and they play in a suitable position

I add Ward and Carrick even though they not in the squad because Ward is a solid FB and Carrick is a good DM

Barry can be another option and for FB? Johnson or one of the kids Flanagan or Stones?

Milner and Jones are both bad choices
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That looks like a 4132 to me, I don't see a midfield diamond.
 
--------------------STURRIDGE--------------------


ROONEY----------------------------------STERLING

---------------------BARKLEY----------------------


----------HENDERSON-------GERRARD--------------


BAINES------JAGIELKA-----CAHILL---JOHNSON/JONES


----------------------HART------------------------
 
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