There’s nothing you can give him credit for? Honest question.
Elon Musk | Doer of things on X and sad little man
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
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I'm fully aware of these sort of things he've said, but to actually believe he's a nazi in real life, seems pretty farfetched and even judgemental to me.I'm going to be kind and keep it jovial because we are having some fun here. I'll attribute this to your own ignorance rather than malice.
But please make an effort to familiarise yourself with Elon's history:
This is but one example.
Insensitive, conspiratory and a guy that promotes racist content via his platforms? Yes. Nazi? Probably not.
It is so weird to me that you can agree on all of these things and yet still want to desperately defend him.
I probably see it more as defending everyone's right to not be seen in black and white and to also make people aware what benefits we all will get from what he's innovating (not inventing, that's a different thing).
It's getting to the point of ridiculous that we can only view and simplify people into "evil/bad". He is now a nazi to some people, who just want to reaffirm their own view on him as only the villain.
No one wins of this imo, which is why I'm still defending his doings/innovations to nuance it all out - not his personal views.
To many people, any potential benefits that someone who is an alleged and quite probably a racist, transphobic cnut may give are completely outweighed by being that probably racist, transphobic cnut. Additionally, I think a bunch of posters have explained that aside from that, the claims of him being an innovative genius are wildly overstated and his role in them fairly limited. So no, I wouldn't say people have a simplified view on him. I'd say that because of how open Musk is and how prominent his face and his companies are in new age media, they know quite a lot about him and who he is and what he does. It's just that because of who he is and what he does, he warrants little more than a snappy post calling him a dickhead.
I'm perfectly fine with giving him credit for a ton of stuff regarding SpaceX (especially about its early functioning, and making putting material into orbit so much cheaper and actually profitable to the point where other companies got convinced that it's a viable thing to develop and invest in) and with Tesla at least when it comes to batteries (although this is just a thing where I trust people that have actual technical knowledge on this subject) and popularisation of EVs among higher end cars and I absolutely see value in those. The parts I have a massive problem with is when he somehow gets credit for stuff that hasn't even fecking happened yet or when he was only one of the minor players and somehow is being portrayed as the only one.
You linked an unsourced top 10 list that isn't even about fecking solar in the first place, but about energy storage. Before Tesla even entered that market, cost of solar went down by nearly an order of magnitude in the previous decade and it was already among the cheapest sources of energy per MWh in 2015 and by 2019 it was the cheapest. Pinning that credit on him, because Tesla did some marginal investment on a global scale in the last few years is just beyond absurd, but apparently a top 10 list for something tangentially related is enough.
Seriously, as much as I despise what kind of person he chose to be in last years, none of it is actually relevant to this.
Nazi sympathiser?
I did nazi that coming.
Not ‘so called’. He’s evil. Pure and simple.
Tesla stock price will plummet when the first mass movement of people starts vandalising Teslas when he inevitably chips in with his edgiest take.
One TikTok that encourages actively vandalising Teslas, at the right time, and the lad is fcuked.
I’d posit that if the BLM protests happened now, and he chirped up with some right wing grifty shit, it would happen right now.
You’re not engaging in any good faith.
Carbon savings. Man alive…. You can’t be that dumb. In a 12 month window, The totality of every Tesla on the road will ‘save’ as much carbon vs an ICE car as Space X burns in 4 months. Wake the Fcuk up. Unless you can get those rockets to run on the ejaculate of all you Musk fan boys, he’s never balancing that equation.
My neighbour kicked a pensioner down the stairs. But it’s ok as he was on the way to put his recycling out. He’s a good human.
Pensioners are sucking our economy dry anyway. Good on him.
I assume you're not intending to be one in the future, will you be taking advantage of the Dutch legal system that allows topping yourself?
Call me narrow-minded, but of all the things I desperately wish humanity would get better at, landing rockets is relatively low on the list.
We have everyone involuntarily euthanised at 65 over here. Just ask Rick Santorum.I assume you're not intending to be one in the future, will you be taking advantage of the Dutch legal system that allows topping yourself?
Except Tesla for years didn't produce cars while cashing ZEVs, and there's also that bit about the enhanced element that Tesla cashed in on without ever delivering.
More generally, Tesla is not standalone in the world. The electric transition would have happened with or without Tesla. Without Musk, perhaps it would have happened with safer Tesla cars.
Where does Musk stand on hydrogen cars btw? Cause there is increasing concern about the other environmental impacts of electric cars. If Musk really owns Tesla at least in part because of the good it does, then he should be aware of and talking about the downsides of electric driving.
Low bar!
He’s not a Nazi. It’s actually really smart to align yourself with fascist grifters to make more money. If he doesn’t have enough money, how can he r4pe the planet to launch rockets?
Musk fans and sympathisers are pr1cks.
Whats eye opening is that good women don’t fall for it. Trump, Rogan, Musk, Peterson, all of them… 80-20% popularity among men/women. Not fully formed men. But the stunted idiots.
Oh, yeah you're definitely an impartial observer.
That website is owned by Bizclik Media, a digital advertising company. They're not journalists, industry experts, or anyone else that would be listened to by people who weren't just madly searching for something that proves an argument wrong (it wasn't even the argument that was being made, but i guess you tried).
Again
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He's clearly a dreamboat. And the way he pushes the limits of the English language with his kids names is also admirable.
Elon Musk is a perfect example of someone who people can't judge without bias because he's a bit of a stinking knob.
Does his businesses add real world value and make the average human better? SpaceX potentially, everything else no.
Is he a knobjockey with fecked up views? Yes.
Is he a terrible businessman because of his twitter thing? No.
Yes, he had a silver spoon. Yes he had a leg up. Yes he got every advantage you could possibly think of.
And yet out of the 0.01% of the most privilged, if which there still being 800,000 people, there's still only one richest man in the world.
This isn't a case of someone who took their family empire and used that to keep the same level of wealth like say, Trump. He well surpassed that.
He's a management consultants, by the book wet dream, when he isn't running bizarre social experiments and ego filler (Twitter).
Does his businesses add real world value and make the average human better? SpaceX potentially, everything else no.
Is he a knobjockey with fecked up views? Yes.
Is he a terrible businessman because of his twitter thing? No.
Yes, he had a silver spoon. Yes he had a leg up. Yes he got every advantage you could possibly think of.
And yet out of the 0.01% of the most privilged, if which there still being 800,000 people, there's still only one richest man in the world.
This isn't a case of someone who took their family empire and used that to keep the same level of wealth like say, Trump. He well surpassed that.
He's a management consultants, by the book wet dream, when he isn't running bizarre social experiments and ego filler (Twitter).
Exactly right!
I don't know what the feck happened to Jordan Petersen.
If you read his actual, work as a psychologist, on his research on alcoholism and his actual subject studies...it's really good stuff.
Then well...he started spreading political shite. And then went crazy into pseudoscience experiments and shit like raw meat diet.
So you’re agreeing that he’s a truly awful social net negative?
oh yeah absolutely, but it's kind of weird people rail against his business acumen.
It's a bit like everyone going "Hitler's a shite orator" just because he was possibly the worst human in history.
Sorry to invoke godwin's law but it was an easy example.
I can't wrap my head around how stupid and misinformative this post is. Have you used Essien's calculator?
Here's the numbers, since you just spew shit out there and afterwards believe your own bullshit. You should really take a math class.
Fact 1: EV's: Wrong
Over a lifespan period of a car: One EV release 1/3rd of emissions of a fossil fuel vehicle.
Your example with 1 year is so stupid it's beyond words. The masses don't use a car for one year. But it fits your biased narrative.
A typical EV's emissions from both manufacturing and driving is on par with the lifespan of a fossil fuelled car after just 1 year. The last 6-12 years or whatever time you use it, it is only beneficial to the planet and will over a typical lifespan save 1/3rd of total emissions compared to a fossil fuelled car. Of course not using a car/EV at all would emit 0 emissions, but you gotta be pragmatic about it all, and the most beneficial thing to the planet would of course be if none of us exist, or if people used public transport (if such a thing existed on a great scale - it's still shit mostly everywhere).
I'm not gonna defend everything SpaceX does, as I'm just not a big space guy, but your statement is just mindboggling wrong.
Fact 2 - Starship emissions: Completely wrong
Current saved amount of CO2e from Tesla's in 1 year: +20.000.000 tonnes of CO2e saved (CO2e = CO2equivalent which is the standard measure to catch other pollution factors that pollutes the planet)
I take it you'll find the BBC credible, or just the US Federal Aviation Administration. The next 25 launches Starship has applied for will emit -97.000 tonnes or 3.894 tonnes pr launch. I'll just put your post here to emphasize how stupid this statement really is:
Again: +20.000.000 tonnes CO2e saved vs -97.000 tonnes emitted.
You can even look at SpaceX in another way: those future launches will remove the need for extremely polluting non reusable rockets in the first place. The Devil's advocate would probably say "YeAh BuT BoEiNg WoULd JuSt TaKe tHe PlAcE of SpAceX iF tHeY diDnT eXiSt O__o" and the answer is of course that no one really did anything promising before Elon Musk innovated with SpaceX.
Anyways, I'm not a big fan of SpaceX, just needed to point out that this statement is plain wrong if anyone in this thread would actually believe it.
On top of this - a bigger perspective of further CO2e emissions:
If Tesla ever achieves Level 5 autonomy (yes, it is possible although you can never count on Elon's constant "2 years from now") it will entirely remove the need for owning a car for many people - Just for example's sake let's say 25% will not a buy a car anymore (that's conservative) - Imagine how many emissions that'll save in itself.
But yeah, vandalizing and hating on Teslas will really help us all out. Elon's bad = EV's are bad, amirite?
Nothing happened to him. People just learned more about him.
Then, his audience changed as toxic men took the messages they wanted to hear from his talks. That validated specific part of it. He followed that and it corrupted his mind.
Rogans impact on him and his level of balance and nuance cannot be understated.
An ugly, old, quite eccentric man who had lived a normal life in a normal way, was catapulted into a modern age into the wrong space. He had no operating system to handle that. Thrusting popularity on an old person that had just lived a normal life to that point would change most.
Imagine accumulating outrageous fortunes that grow every time you double down into dark and illogical spaces. It’d Fcuk you up.
I understand it, but I don’t have any empathy for him. He’s part of the cohort group that are ruining men. All while trumpeting ‘This is what men should be’. Naaahhh mate. No woman in my life would go anywhere near you. High functioning women that are killing it in their fields and social lives. People I run to keep up with, just as I do with great men in my life. They don’t think they’re special. I’m sure as Fcuk not special. But fully formed adults would close the curtains if he was giving a speech in their garden.
So, he turns to the people that want to hear things that doesn’t challenge them and won’t ever ask them to change.
Plus, most importantly… he dresses like a colourful gonad.
I don’t think it’s that mate. I think it’s the overstating of his ‘Business Acumen’ that’s the issue.
If ‘talk bollocks about the feasibility of something in order to make a packet’ is acumen, then fine. But it’s not.
He’s a great salesman. But that’s not some ringing endorsement of anything. Honest sales people have a point of value. He’s never created anything. He doesn’t do the doing. He sells a dream and that’s a talent. But it has zero social value and nobody should be impressed.
Peterson always had attraction to the extremely weird stuff, but before he got famous he had no way to actually turn it into a full career path.
You don’t realise that you’re arguing with someone that’s at the forefront of the decarbonisation of the grid in this country. Someone that’s day to day existence sees them work on the decarbonisation of how we heat the entire country. And you’re wrong.
It’s all well and good you being a ‘Do your research guy’. But eventually you’ll meet someone that’s knows what they’re talking about. Not because they did their own research, but because they literally ARE the research material.
Your time really would be better spent lubing up your arsehole and crafting a really pretty ‘Fcuk me Elon’ sign to hold aloft at a Trump rally. Be sure to only use Binary colours though mate.
Go well xxx
Wow. You sure speak like a guy who knows what he’s talking about, resorting to nuanced stuff like “Lube me up Elon”, and on top of that you seem to understand vandalization too. More sounds like an angry anarchist who cant count imo.
No numbers, no nothing. I call bullshit that you’d be on the forefront of anything if you can’t even do simple maths like the above-mentioned.
And for anyone else in this thread watching this debate, I’m still not a fan of Elon Musks personal views which are in short toxic.
I must admit, this was very badass.
Yet this fantastic man thinks an EV’s emissions should be measured over 1 year. Only emissions he’ll dare to count is his own farts.
It's pretty high for me, because I think developing space really comprehensively, will improve life for everyone.
Space cannot be 'developed comprehensively'. It's fecking space. It's a fantasy of pre-puberty boys like Musk.
I think that undervalues the vision and leadership needed to make those kinds of business work. You don't get to start/grow two giant influential hardware businesses in very unfancied sectors, by accident. And in terms of value to society, I don't really know how you always can be conclusive - eg Werner Von Braun or Oppenheimer, when weighing things up. It's the sort of thing you have to leave to the judgement of history.
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We will agree to disagree, but if you can get launch costs down to a few thousand per ton, you can create industries and do things that previously were completely unviable. (Eg the Hubble space telescope weighed 12 tons. Starships lift capacity will be 100 tons +)
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I AM the danger!
Nah, lots of stuff that was impossible eventually became possible. It will probably take a few centuries or more, but someone sometime has to start.
Yes. I’m a borderline anarchist. If we still lived in a time where anarchy could achieve anything I’d be supporting any cause that was attempting to burn shit down. It ain’t gonna be me because I’m of an age that knows the alphanumeric designations of my vertebrae.
But when people like you get sucked into this paper thin facade that an egomaniac has put in front of reality… I just Fcuking despair.
So yeah, keep your Bigly research alternative maths, believe your alternative facts. I honestly don’t care. One day you may reassess, I hope so. Because you’re shilling for Musk at a stage in his life that mirrors where Trump was at when he launched the Apprentice. All fart and no shit.
It’s ok to change your mind when new information comes along. At one point Musk looked like an industry Titan. Robo taxis! Hyperloop! Mars! Fully autonomous cars! Solar Roofs on every home! Energy Independence! Peace in our time! Inteerrrr Planetarrryyyy Species! It’s only ever been Jam tomorrow. And it won’t ever be more than that.
You’ve seen nothing beyond cars running on batteries and a man using tax payer funds to leave regions and nations dependent on his satellites. That’s it. I don’t know about you, using the apparatus of Capitalism to decide whether Ukraine should have satellite access should have been the nadir for everyone. Basically ‘If you want your people to live you must pay’.
But you’ll write off his character as ‘annoying’ as if it’s a fly while you’re giving a speech. His character is what DRIVES the nefarious. The power hungry ‘more at all costs’ manipulation of social norms and structures that only exist to protect people…. From people…. Like him… So he can get MORE. Downplay it all you like mate.
And, sorry about the lube comment. Keep taking it raw from the cuttlefish skinned Cnut if you like.