Elon Musk | Doer of things on X and sad little man

[nimic]

Without knowing the full context of the tweet, not much wrong with the message there as a stand-alone comment. Both sides need to find a way to stop the bodies piling up more.

What context do you need? There is no both sides here. There's Russia invading and currently occupying large parts of Ukraine. Telling them that they should agree to a truce is fundamentally the same as saying that Ukraine should agree to let Russia annex conquer parts of their country. And what about the next time Russia attacks?

 

[whitbyviking]

So do you propose the Ukrainians keep dying at the rate they are? Or do you think it might be an idea to try diplomacy?

Musk is an arsehole and I don’t follow him, or use Twitter, for that matter. That comment alone is not unreasonable.

I understand why the Ukrainians fight and I’d like to think I’d have the courage to do the same. I also think there comes a point when there has been enough death and the land is just not worth it any more. People’s lives are worth more than land to me, it’s that simple.

 

[4bars]

So do you propose the Ukrainians keep dying at the rate they are? Or do you think it might be an idea to try diplomacy?

Musk is an arsehole and I don’t follow him, or use Twitter, for that matter. That comment alone is not unreasonable.

I understand why the Ukrainians fight and I’d like to think I’d have the courage to do the same. I also think there comes a point when there has been enough death and the land is just not worth it any more. People’s lives are worth more than land to me, it’s that simple.

Ill fall for Godwin's law, but I guess the allies had to surrender and let Hitler swipe through Europe and why not US? just to avoid death. After all, lives are worth more than land.

What a stupid shit to say, mate

 

[KirkDuyt]

So do you propose the Ukrainians keep dying at the rate they are? Or do you think it might be an idea to try diplomacy?

Musk is an arsehole and I don’t follow him, or use Twitter, for that matter. That comment alone is not unreasonable.

I understand why the Ukrainians fight and I’d like to think I’d have the courage to do the same. I also think there comes a point when there has been enough death and the land is just not worth it any more. People’s lives are worth more than land to me, it’s that simple.

In a void the comment isn't unreasonable, but in the context of 1 country invading another country, taking and pillaging land and murdering the population it's absurd to argue the defending country should just sue for peace and accept that thousands of citizens have been killed or have lost their homes forever.

I agree it's time for diplomacy. Putin should admit he's a terrorst cnut, pull out of Ukraine and walk to The Hague to have his day in court. The people that are dying are on Russia.

 

[Maagge]

So do you propose the Ukrainians keep dying at the rate they are? Or do you think it might be an idea to try diplomacy?

Musk is an arsehole and I don’t follow him, or use Twitter, for that matter. That comment alone is not unreasonable.

I understand why the Ukrainians fight and I’d like to think I’d have the courage to do the same. I also think there comes a point when there has been enough death and the land is just not worth it any more. People’s lives are worth more than land to me, it’s that simple.

As long as the Ukrainians want to fight, no one should tell them to find a peaceful solution that doesn't involve Russia fecking off back home returning Ukraine to the Ukrainians in the process.

 

[whitbyviking]

Ill fall for Godwin's law, but I guess the allies had to surrender and let Hitler swipe through Europe and why not US? just to avoid death. After all, lives are worth more than land.

What a stupid shit to say, mate

World War 2 was winnable, and they set out to do so. At this moment in time Ukraine isn’t winnable in my opinion, and unless something changes it will remain as it is. So as things stand the war in Ukraine is nowhere near the same as WW2.

Ukraine has a finite amount of manpower, Russia does too, but they have more. Hitler and Napoleon failed in Russia because their manpower is basically endless. Unless the Ukrainian allies put boots on the ground, which is never going to happen, then this grinding war will continue as it is with only Ukrainians dying.

Sooner or later diplomacy will have to be undertaken. If diplomacy fails then instead of victory the Ukrainian allies will continue essentially supplying them towards a slow death. To win this I believe they will have to join them properly in the fight.

if you think the above is stupid then that’s your choice.

 

[whitbyviking]

As long as the Ukrainians want to fight, no one should tell them to find a peaceful solution that doesn't involve Russia fecking off back home returning Ukraine to the Ukrainians in the process.

I agree, but I also think at some point in time pragmatism has to win out and diplomacy given a chance otherwise there won’t be any Ukrainians left to fight, and any land they have defended empty.

 

[whitbyviking]

In a void the comment isn't unreasonable, but in the context of 1 country invading another country, taking and pillaging land and murdering the population it's absurd to argue the defending country should just sue for peace and accept that thousands of citizens have been killed or have lost their homes forever.

I agree it's time for diplomacy. Putin should admit he's a terrorst cnut, pull out of Ukraine and walk to The Hague to have his day in court. The people that are dying are on Russia.

I’m not saying they should sue for peace. In my opinion diplomacy should be attempted, there is always a deal to be made. This doesn’t necessarily mean asking for peace. It needs to be a diplomacy the allies of both countries are fully active in too otherwise there is not chance of it ever being successful. Someone cleverer than us needs to find the right carrot and stick otherwise the Ukraine is stuck in this perpetual nightmare with their population slowly dying out. The death numbers already will set them back generations, not to mention the rebuild.

 

[KirkDuyt]

I’m not saying they should sue for peace. In my opinion diplomacy should be attempted, there is always a deal to be made. This doesn’t necessarily mean asking for peace. It needs to be a diplomacy the allies of both countries are fully active in too otherwise there is not chance of it ever being successful. Someone cleverer than us needs to find the right carrot and stick otherwise the Ukraine is stuck in this perpetual nightmare with their population slowly dying out. The death numbers already will set them back generations, not to mention the rebuild.

Ukraine isn't going to surrender unless Russia fecks off or unless Russia conquers them and actually conquering and holding Ukraine is very difficult and costly for Russia. And while Russia is large they're hardly a superpower with a huge economy. The glory days of Russia are very far behind them.

War is always bad, but the narrative Musk and likeminded people push about the west being responsible for senseless death by supporting Ukraine instead of finding diplomatic common ground is horseshit. The only acceptable Diplomatic solution is Russia pulls back and pays a fecktonne of reparations.

 

[whitbyviking]

Ukraine isn't going to surrender unless Russia fecks off or unless Russia conquers them and actually conquering and holding Ukraine is very difficult and costly for Russia. And while Russia is large they're hardly a superpower with a huge economy. The glory days of Russia are very far behind them.

War is always bad, but the narrative Musk and likeminded people push about the west being responsible for senseless death by supporting Ukraine instead of finding diplomatic common ground is horseshit. The only acceptable Diplomatic solution is Russia pulls back and pays a fecktonne of reparations.

Which you know is never going to happen. So what is the solution then? Ukrainians keep dying? Russia gets damaged enough they use nukes? The “west” gets involved properly and then so do China, there or another arena such as Taiwan.

What the west are doing in the Ukraine is responsible, otherwise we’d be talking about a genocide. It’s not enough to end the war though and that has to be the end game. If they’re not going to up the ante in terms of support then it is up to them to resolve in another manner, which is peace, however that is obtained.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Which you know is never going to happen. So what is the solution then? Ukrainians keep dying? Russia gets damaged enough they use nukes? The “west” gets involved properly and then so do China, there or another arena such as Taiwan.

What the west are doing in the Ukraine is responsible, otherwise we’d be talking about a genocide. It’s not enough to end the war though and that has to be the end game. If they’re not going to up the ante in terms of support then it is up to them to resolve in another manner, which is peace, however that is obtained.

Or Russians keep dying u till Putin loses support. Russia may have more young men to send out to die, but surely the Russian people have their limit. Though I've heard the average Russian is more.patriotic than we can imagine in the west.

It's obviously a difficult to resolve situation, but the rhetoric from Musk is definitely not the answer. Ukraine will not surrender their lands and have said so repeatedly. And that's very much their right.

 

[whitbyviking]

Or Russians keep dying u till Putin loses support. Russia may have more young men to send out to die, but surely the Russian people have their limit. Though I've heard the average Russian is more.patriotic than we can imagine in the west.

It's obviously a difficult to resolve situation, but the rhetoric from Musk is definitely not the answer. Ukraine will not surrender their lands and have said so repeatedly. And that's very much their right.

Do you think Putin will lose support? Look what happened to Wagner.

Ignore the fact this rhetoric came from Musk. If it came from Barack Obama would you still disagree?

I’ve said in this thread I agree with the Ukraine. But that comes at a cost and soon that cost will be too much to take, already is maybe too much to take, in my opinion.

Anyway, my opinion is clear, I have nothing more to add.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Do you think Putin will lose support? Look what happened to Wagner.

Ignore the fact this rhetoric came from Musk. If it came from Barack Obama would you still disagree?

I’ve said in this thread I agree with the Ukraine. But that comes at a cost and soon that cost will be too much to take, already is maybe too much to take, in my opinion.

Anyway, my opinion is clear, I have nothing more to add.

I most definitely would. As I did with his foreign policy when in office. He would never use Musk's rhetoric though, since despute his failings he's a serious person. Musk isnt.

 

[Krakenzero]

Which you know is never going to happen. So what is the solution then? Ukrainians keep dying? Russia gets damaged enough they use nukes? The “west” gets involved properly and then so do China, there or another arena such as Taiwan.

What the west are doing in the Ukraine is responsible, otherwise we’d be talking about a genocide. It’s not enough to end the war though and that has to be the end game. If they’re not going to up the ante in terms of support then it is up to them to resolve in another manner, which is peace, however that is obtained.

We don't know that it's never going to happen, as it has happened before. And of course, Russia can't go and use nukes as it will trigger MAD.

Since you mention China and Taiwan, what do you think will happen there if Musk's demands are met?

 

[nimic]

Do you think Putin will lose support? Look what happened to Wagner.

You've got it very backwards if you think the almost-coup by Wagner was a sign that Putin's hold on power is stronger than ever. He won in the end, but it was a tremendous sign of weakness.

Ignore the fact this rhetoric came from Musk. If it came from Barack Obama would you still disagree?

This is a nothing-argument. What if it came from Hitler? What if it came from John Lennon? You can't know the answer to that, and everyone will have a different opinion, so it gets us nowhere.

 

[Eyepopper]

Should've just let Hitler have Poland, he'd probably have been happy with that, and not have pulled any other shit, right?

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

Without knowing the full context of the tweet, not much wrong with the message there as a stand-alone comment. Both sides need to find a way to stop the bodies piling up more.

Very early on, when the war had just started, I held similar views about 'both sides need to de-escalate'. I felt that NATO had threatened Russia into action with their expansion and hypocritical intervention over the years to 'spread the seeds of democracy'. And that Putin, backed into a corner, resorted to a response that all heinous dictators love - war.

I am ashamed of that view, now, and do not hold it anymore. There is no 'both sides' when one is an aggressor and the other is a victim. Irrespective of the war crimes that I believe the US are guilty of (the list is very long), or Ukraine's own enabling of some of them in the last, one thing is indisputable - every country in the world has the right to fight when their sovereignty is forcefully threatened by am external force. Russia is a bully who is invading another country, and Ukraine has every right to defend it as long as they can. It's the aggressor who wins when the victim believes they can no longer fight to defend themselves. No one other than Ukrainians can determine if the cost of war is worth it, and Ukraine currently seems unanimously and unequivocally proud of their fight. I'm glad they're finding support and resources to defend themselves from allies across the world.

Promoting pacifism with past transgressions of the victim as context is the wrong thing to do as it enables the aggressor. It's exactly what Elon is doing and he's doing it out of malicious intent rather than ignorance.

 

[4bars]

World War 2 was winnable, and they set out to do so. At this moment in time Ukraine isn’t winnable in my opinion, and unless something changes it will remain as it is. So as things stand the war in Ukraine is nowhere near the same as WW2.

Ukraine has a finite amount of manpower, Russia does too, but they have more. Hitler and Napoleon failed in Russia because their manpower is basically endless. Unless the Ukrainian allies put boots on the ground, which is never going to happen, then this grinding war will continue as it is with only Ukrainians dying.

Sooner or later diplomacy will have to be undertaken. If diplomacy fails then instead of victory the Ukrainian allies will continue essentially supplying them towards a slow death. To win this I believe they will have to join them properly in the fight.

if you think the above is stupid then that’s your choice.

Tell if with the pact molotov-ribbentrop and before dunkirk and us involvementthe if it seemed winable. Is easy with historical perspective.

Ukraine gave up one on crimea and russia came back

Yes utrerly stupid

 

[calodo2003]

 

[calodo2003]

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

As long as the Ukrainians want to fight, no one should tell them to find a peaceful solution that doesn't involve Russia fecking off back home returning Ukraine to the Ukrainians in the process.

And that's the bottom line.

To hell with anyone and any faction pushing for negotiation bullshit whenever Ukraine is willing to go all the way in battle.

 

[Lemoor]

Ignore the fact this rhetoric came from Musk. If it came from Barack Obama would you still disagree?

I'd say it's sketchy, because it's almost universally used by people also coincidentally arguing for giving Putin everything he wants, but by itself it wouldn't be enough information. With Musk there is enough information to know that this is exactly what he argues for.

 

[RG77]

So do you propose the Ukrainians keep dying at the rate they are? Or do you think it might be an idea to try diplomacy?

Musk is an arsehole and I don’t follow him, or use Twitter, for that matter. That comment alone is not unreasonable.

I understand why the Ukrainians fight and I’d like to think I’d have the courage to do the same. I also think there comes a point when there has been enough death and the land is just not worth it any more. People’s lives are worth more than land to me, it’s that simple.

How, how are we 18 months into this war and we still have these types of stupid takes that have been discussed and debunked over and over and over? Fecking tiring.

———

Musk is a tool, no news there. Sadly Starlink was the only real option they had at the time. In the meantime they switched to a US DoD operated version of it.

 

[langster]

Do you think Putin will lose support? Look what happened to Wagner.

Ignore the fact this rhetoric came from Musk. If it came from Barack Obama would you still disagree?

I’ve said in this thread I agree with the Ukraine. But that comes at a cost and soon that cost will be too much to take, already is maybe too much to take, in my opinion.

Anyway, my opinion is clear, I have nothing more to add.

I understand your view and completely empathise with you over the senseless loss of life. However I feel your view is just way too simplistic and incredibly naive.

Ukraine already surrendered Crimea and yet Putin's Russia returned again. If Ukraine surrendered more regions again who is to say Putin wouldn't be back again? I guarantee he would as he's never hid the fact he wants the old U.S.S.R. territories back. And he wants them so he can then attack whoever he wants.

Also you are completely overlooking what giving up land or territory means to the people who live there. They don't want to be part of Russia, they dont want to speak Russian. They are Ukrainian and want to remain Ukranian. Are you going to just give that away? Especially when Ukraine have just defended themselves.

The West dont give in to terrorist demands and this is the same. If you give in to the bully then you are going against the wishes of your countrymen and women and also you are inviting them to come back and take more land again.

Putin and Russia need to be defeated. That is the absolute only way this war can end without inviting more of these invasions at a later date. I guarantee he wont stop at Ukraine. If you think a peace deal would solve this then I'm sorry, but you are very, very much mistaken.

 

[Beans]

Hear hear.

 

[WPMUFC]

 

[calodo2003]

Just received one of those pop up 'do you really want to send this tweet as someone could be offended?' messages while I was interacting with someone on Twitter.

The offensive word I used was 'incel.' I've used that word pretty liberally as of recently, but this is the first time it was flagged.

 

[WPMUFC]

I understand your view and completely empathise with you over the senseless loss of life. However I feel your view is just way too simplistic and incredibly naive.

Ukraine already surrendered Crimea and yet Putin's Russia returned again. If Ukraine surrendered more regions again who is to say Putin wouldn't be back again? I guarantee he would as he's never hid the fact he wants the old U.S.S.R. territories back. And he wants them so he can then attack whoever he wants.

Also you are completely overlooking what giving up land or territory means to the people who live there. They don't want to be part of Russia, they dont want to speak Russian. They are Ukrainian and want to remain Ukranian. Are you going to just give that away? Especially when Ukraine have just defended themselves.

The West dont give in to terrorist demands and this is the same. If you give in to the bully then you are going against the wishes of your countrymen and women and also you are inviting them to come back and take more land again.

Putin and Russia need to be defeated. That is the absolute only way this war can end without inviting more of these invasions at a later date. I guarantee he wont stop at Ukraine. If you think a peace deal would solve this then I'm sorry, but you are very, very much mistaken.

The biggest problem with the argument made by elon and others in this thread for the "diplomatic" solution is that they rely on Russia just stopping and never trying again. It's essential to their entire argument. But it falls down the minute you ask a follow up such as "why wouldn't Russia just try again when they've regrouped and rebuilt their military?" There is never a diplomatic position that Russia agrees to where they would openly allow sanctions to be applied on them for re-invading, that Ukraine could automatically join NATO for article 5 protections if tanks rolled back into the country. Russia's diplomatic position would be, we keep the land, any suggestion of NATO membership is a violation of the truce and we get to define any violation of a truce.

It's a completely "virtue signalling" argument in it's purest form. Yes everyone wants to see Ukrainians and forced Russia conscripts stop dying on the battlefield. Yes, a diplomatic solution can "end the bloodshed"....but that isn't the end of anything. This is a land grab by an autocratic gangster that espouses imperialism through traditional/cultural nationalism. He wants to rebuild a version of "Russian Empire" and i have no clue how people that argue for the "diplomatic solution" argue this away. Their answer seems to be, "if Russia can take it, then so be it". And I fundamentally reject that position.

Where I might concede some ground is that viking is probably arguing solely from an 'end the fighting position", whereas it seems stupidly obvious that Elon only thinks of this in terms of "the Ukrainians are messing up the global economy by resisting too long".

 

[nimic]

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

Just received one of those pop up 'do you really want to send this tweet as someone could be offended?' messages while I was interacting with someone on Twitter.

The offensive word I used was 'incel.' I've used that word pretty liberally as of recently, but this is the first time it was flagged.

Beyond pathetic if they start flagging people for that.

 

[cafecillos]

Just received one of those pop up 'do you really want to send this tweet as someone could be offended?' messages while I was interacting with someone on Twitter.

The offensive word I used was 'incel.' I've used that word pretty liberally as of recently, but this is the first time it was flagged.

This is alright though:

Big yikes.

 

[Raoul]

This is alright though:

Pretty much sums up his stint as Twitter owner.

 

[langster]

The biggest problem with the argument made by elon and others in this thread for the "diplomatic" solution is that they rely on Russia just stopping and never trying again. It's essential to their entire argument. But it falls down the minute you ask a follow up such as "why wouldn't Russia just try again when they've regrouped and rebuilt their military?" There is never a diplomatic position that Russia agrees to where they would openly allow sanctions to be applied on them for re-invading, that Ukraine could automatically join NATO for article 5 protections if tanks rolled back into the country. Russia's diplomatic position would be, we keep the land, any suggestion of NATO membership is a violation of the truce and we get to define any violation of a truce.

It's a completely "virtue signalling" argument in it's purest form. Yes everyone wants to see Ukrainians and forced Russia conscripts stop dying on the battlefield. Yes, a diplomatic solution can "end the bloodshed"....but that isn't the end of anything. This is a land grab by an autocratic gangster that espouses imperialism through traditional/cultural nationalism. He wants to rebuild a version of "Russian Empire" and i have no clue how people that argue for the "diplomatic solution" argue this away. Their answer seems to be, "if Russia can take it, then so be it". And I fundamentally reject that position.

Where I might concede some ground is that viking is probably arguing solely from an 'end the fighting position", whereas it seems stupidly obvious that Elon only thinks of this in terms of "the Ukrainians are messing up the global economy by resisting too long".

I agree. And I would love for the war to end and people stop dying. I would hope anybody would want that too. But I said the same thing and you put it so well yourself, it's just a fairytale. It's not going to happen. Putin won't stop, he can't stop and more importantly, he doesn't want to stop. He sees it all as his land that was taken unfairly and if he was around he wouldn't have let it happen. He sees all Ukranians as either Russians or the enemy. I bet he thinks the same about everywhere that was formerly part of the U.S.S.R. Actually, no, I KNOW that's how he sees things.

He needs to be defeated or worn down so much that people get sick and tired of needless lives being lost so his support dwindles sufficiently enough for someone to overthrow him and take power.

The only sad part I can see is that really doesn't look like it will be anytime soon. More worryingly is the growing hostility from people around the world getting fed up with their money being sent to a war somewhere nowhere near them or that in their opinion, has nothing to do with them. The Internet is rife with so much bullshit about how we are funding this wsr and sending money to Ukraine only for Zelensky to line his own pockets while people are drinking champagne and dancing to house music in clubs as of nothing has changed.

It's so ignorant, but you can't tell people who don't want to be told or that also cannot comprehend why Europe and the US are fighting a war by proxy while not committing forces of their own. The misinformation and misunderstanding surrounding everything nowadays is scary. The apathy is kind of understandable from some, as most people have more than enough to worry about as it is and they see their country ignoring their problems whilst sending billions to a land many couldn't find on a map. They also don't seem to understand that helping Ukraine and supporting and funding issues at home are not mutually exclusive and without a doubt many issues could be fixed with increased funding and that funding Ukraine isn't taking money from that at all.

I'm sure many would be outraged if the US suddenly decides to put planes in the sky and boots in the ground, they can't seem to grasp that the way they are handling things is the cheapest and most practical option available to them. In essence most of the world is at war with Russia, they are just fighting in a different way.

 

[tenpoless]

My friend had a good theory that because Elon has always worked overtime in his life, he never got the time to be a teenager. Explains why this 52 y.o always tweets about memes. It's to make up for the teenagehood he never got to experience.

 

[4bars]

My friend had a good theory that because Elon has always worked overtime in his life, he never got the time to be a teenager. Explains why this 52 y.o always tweets about memes. It's to make up for the teenagehood he never got to experience.

My theory is that he had always being a cnut

 

[nimic]

 

[nimic]

Musk's 11th child is named Techno Mechanicus.

 

[calodo2003]

What's wrong with Cheong's face, some kind of palsy?

 

[Ekkie Thump]

There they were, the demure women. Then they began to have opinions and I began to hate them.

 

[Lemoor]

"This is actually happening, I saw it on a meme."