It was weird how much of a hard on the co commentator had for Cavani, kept bringing him up even when he was off the pitch, tried to give him motm as well. It was a good performance but surely hyperbole like that is influencing people's opinions.
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But come on, be serious. Martial's lack of work rate is incredibly obvious and its been highlighted even more this season by how ridiculously hard a soon to be 34 year old has come in and worked (right on cue @Pogue Mahone posts the proof that Martial presses the least of our forwards and Cavani the most).
It's not just something we've all sat together and decided for shits and giggles (hell most us find Martial so frustrating precisely because we know he has all the talent) but rather something that's readily apparent from watching our games.
The simple fact is since the beginning of the football fans have always warmed to players more who fight for their teams shirt than those players who don't it's not a weird conspiracy.
I'm not entirely sure how that's relevant given that my username is spelt out right in front of them.
He played very well. I know you’re bummed about Martial not getting similar praise so far this season. If only he’d tried playing very well, right?
That's not surprising.
Pogba also has no work rate even he put in 150% effort. They are that kind of players. It doesn’t mean he is lazy. You just don’t see he keep making moves to occupy the lines and wait for a quick pass to turn or do a narrow space one two to get in. Cavani can’t do that. But don’t get me wrong. Cavani has different skill set which has already helped us remarkably well.
I did keep wondering why that was, it got a bit cringey because he ended up just repeating himself. I genuinely did think he’d scored more than he had because of the commentary though so it definitely is giving out that impression.
No, I just hate the hyperbole from people and the way they act as if Cavani is miles out in front of Martial in terms of ability. Martial is a better player and showed it in the second half but the commentator wasn't banging on endlessly like he was for Cavani in the first half. He was getting weirdly aggressive about Cavani being our starting 9 as well, it was bizarre.
As I've said many time, I have lots of respect for Cavani, I think he's an excellent player and personality to have in the dressing room but I thought it was interesting that Martial's performance came after people in this thread tried ridiculing me for giving my opinion.
Martial and Rashford need to up the ante. Going a few games without scoring is much more forgiveable when you're clearly busting a gut to shut down the opposition in other ways. Promising numbers for Greenwood, though.
Interesting stats.
It was really annoying I thought, he was playing well but not amazing and there were a few other players outperforming him easily yet he couldn't do anything but talk about Cavani.
I think it understandable because he is definitely a serious professional. He has the skill set none of our other strikers have, the movement inside the box. Also his work rate. Those definitely are appreciated by anyone. But still, a game has different scenarios which need to be exploited by the players with the different skill set.
Cavani being better than Martial isn't something up for debate really. Martial is a good player on his day (like today) but he'll be lucky to have a career as good as Cavani's.
In what way is Martial a better player than Cavani?
Cavani has proven himself to one of the most prolific strikers in world football over the past decade or so. Martial has struggled to make any progress since joining United in 2015.
Because Cavani is miles behind in terms of his hold up and link up play as well as his technical and physical abilities. Cavani offers exceptional movement, positioning and work rate, which is an excellent option but Martial at his best is one of our most important players and a better player than Cavani overall.
One way to think about it is to consider the whole team’s play. To be successful especially in league, the team must have enough source of goals from many players rather than single player. Martial can produce opportunities that the other can’t because of his quick foot and close control. It can bring more goals directly or indirectly for the other players.
when we had Van Nistelrooy who’s one of the top scorer in the world, we didn’t win much.
Pogba demonstrably worked less than his peers when he was being criticised for being lazy (I know because I demonstrated it on this very website when people were trying to make this same argument in defence of him). His closest comparison was Özil when it came to distance covered. I don't really see that criticism levelled at Pogba much anymore and I'd be happy to bet that it's because he's working significantly harder.
And nor is Martial just being criticised for his off the ball movement alone, which, lets be clear, is shit even within the confines you wish to set out, but for his lack of effort without the ball too. And given that he's been playing shit, too, it's hardly a surprise that it's being highlighted that he's not meeting the basic standards for effort either.
That's all it is. Either Martial starts putting together performances and fans forgive the lack of effort (Messi is the laziest player to ever play the game, but you give him a pass) or he starts working harder and ends up with more credit in the bank if he plays poorly or, ideally, he does both. He managed that last season, so I don't think it's an unrealistic request.
I had been very critical on Pogba’s work rate. But after I saw him put in 150% effort, I finally realized that when he is fully fit, his work rate just has a very low ceiling. You can ask him give 110% every game. But in reality, he simply can’t.
Since Ole took over the team, I think we don’t have work ethics or attitude problem anymore. Martial’s form over last few weeks as I think is due to our unbalanced system by putting pogba in with Bruno also playing. It’s not lazy issue. He and Rashford just can’t do their best in that setup.
Apparently he hurt his ankle just before half time. Hopefully will be okay for Everton.
being pedantic - he can only put in 100% effort. It’s one of my pet hates when footballers say 110% effort. No. 100% is your limit.
back on point, Pogba’s work rate has improved significantly the last month. He was however, anonymous tonight.
Everton might play a defensive game plan. We need him making impact from substitute.
he definitely had been very badly impacted by COVID.
Over the weekend, I watched the Newcastle’s game. Allen Saint-Maximin, a very wonderful player very powerful physically, was brought on as substitute. He made an assist. But you can see him clearly bothered by the impact of COVID. It’s exactly same to what we saw from pogba before he got back to fitness.
We're derailing this thread, but here's the Pogba stats: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-is-not-lazy.447541/page-4#post-24142839 When he was being criticised for being lazy he was walking more than anyone in the league, running less than Ozil, and running less than any other of our midfield players. In short, he was being lazy, and he was playing shite too, which tends to attract more criticism than lazy players who are playing well.
Sometimes, what our eyes tell us is happening is what's happening and this to me seems like another one of those instances.
Some lazy players go very far in the game (heck Berbatov made Martial look like a workhorse) and the best player of all time saunters around the pitch, but it doesn't change the fact they were lazy. I happen to think in this instance if Martial had Cavani's work ethic he'd be a significantly better player than he is now, but he doesn't have it and it's probably silly to hope that he might develop it.
Well. I actually hope martial raise his work rate. So, we agree this for sure. What I am saying is that he just can’t match cavani’s work rate by nature. Just watch his running as compare with how Cavani runs. You will see what I mean.
What a guy 
What a guy
Love this.
I think you might be forgetting a certain Ronaldo.
Having watched Cavani he is our no 1 striker end of no ifs and buts. The others can keep the flanks as wide forwards. He is scoring the simple goals by being in the right place at the right time. Scoring bread and butter headers that martial, rash and the square head of McGuire have missed time and time again. I think I remember one decent header by martial earlier in the season and was actually shocked by it. Cavani's work rate, timing of runs into the box, overall movement is excellent. Basically he just looks like a natural striker as opposed to other forwards.
What a guy
Man... he's quickly become one of my favorite. Excellent character on and off the pitch.
Now we have some leaders on the team. Which is good to see.
At the end of summer window, Athletic voted him to be the worst signing of the season.
In fairness, I only just realised it wasn't Revan posting here
As I mentioned around the time we signed him, he has spent the last decade in an NT setup in which reviewing games in detail isn't just about your own games but watching the U-20/19/17 sides when they play in international tournaments and calling them after games to congratulate, pass on observations, things to work on... mentoring and grooming the next generation.
Back in South Africa 2010 a fair chunk of the prize money was put towards building a training complex for the kids (i.e. making sure they had the infrastructure that would have given them a better chance to compete). Throughout the decade image rights and other monies have gone towards a charitable foundation involved in various initiatives, from taking care of old (skint) legends, to giving kits and balls to U10 Sunday League football teams across the country, via paying Championship players a salary for two months when it got suspended due to clubs being in financial trouble.
He was always going to be an asset as an experienced and consummate pro.
We have really started to only recruit the right person!
I can see he has his hand into management someday. He has the experience, respected, and desire to teach other.
That's brilliant, wish we signed him few years earlier. Leader on and off the pitch.
Have to praise him for the goal. The entire Saints defense went towards Shaw, while Cavani didnt even move, he just knew where the ball was going, stayed uncovered, made a little tip and scored. Perfect anticipation
Amazing player
Amazing player
Imagine watching a 9-0 win for your team and being a tad aggravated that the commentators are heaping praise on your number 9.
All because the other striker in the squad is your favourite.
There’s nowt so queer as folk.
All because the other striker in the squad is your favourite.
There’s nowt so queer as folk.
It's fecking tedious too, same in Bruno and Rashford thread.
Cavani is awesome player, always on the move, presses all the time and his awareness is class too. Plays first time passes to the player in space when contesting 50-50s. Now we have proper option to drop players if they are not in good form. That's how it should be at ManUtd.
To be honest, I think he's a cheat.
He clearly has a heat seeking device attached to the outside of his right boot.
He clearly has a heat seeking device attached to the outside of his right boot.
Compare how dangerous and fluid we looked going forward in the first half, especially for crosses, with how much less so we were in the second (prior to the sending off).
I have a lot of time for Martial but his movement off the ball is virtually non existent whilst Cavanis is off the charts.
Been a while since we've had a proper CF, could be why people don't appreciate so much.
Good to watch, and hope the knock isn't too serious.
I have a lot of time for Martial but his movement off the ball is virtually non existent whilst Cavanis is off the charts.
Been a while since we've had a proper CF, could be why people don't appreciate so much.
Good to watch, and hope the knock isn't too serious.
Hope he stays on as a coach for us when he finally decided to retire.
Hilarious how some people thought we only signed him to babysit Pellestri
Hilarious how some people thought we only signed him to babysit Pellestri
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