I think we do need a player like him but we should do what Palace did, scout well and sign one from the lower leagues. We do have a serviceable midfield, we can afford a couple of punts and if the come good we will be well on our way.
Ederson - Atalanta Midfielder
- Thread starter Berbaclass
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I'd kill for Vitinha. Monster of a player and quite possibly the best midfielder in the world this season.
Maybe a bit more than 50 but players like Vitinha, J.Neves, Barella, Tonali, etc. deserve these kind of fees. Not saying we COULD get these players for that amount but Ederson just doesn't belong to that category of player in my opinion. Not saying he is bad, but definitely not a 50m player.
The return of McFred
I also think we shouldn't pay 62.5m for Cunha but that's a different topic. At least he is league-proven and would start for us, while Ederson I am unsure would be a clear starter or rather a competitor for Ugarte.
My point is: if you pay 50m, it should be a player who without any discussions would start games for us.
My point is: if you pay 50m, it should be a player who without any discussions would start games for us.
In terms of style, yes precisely - the best technicians/ playmakers are not going to display the same robustness/ tenacity etc. as the foremost providers of those qualities, and vice versa.
Positionally, no. A midfielder can be a natural as either the holding player (#6) or otherwise (#8) regardless of whether they are primarily technical or physical.
I think Ugarte does provide physicality as a no.6, even if he doesn't have top end athleticism (which Ederson does, and part of the reason why I feel he is a better player overall and someone I would have preferred as a signing last season - Ugarte is here now though and he does bring certain qualities to the team, and that should be considered when looking at further recruitment and squad building).
For me, if you want to propose we buy a player who excels both as a playmaker and an athlete, you really need to have a specific player in mind as generally players are in their team for one or the other.
Fernandes and Mainoo. Two of our better players, who are at their best in centre midfield and excel in progressing the play.
I don't necessarily support this signing but I understand the thought process driving it. He is an experienced player with good athleticism who will play the box to box role. We have Kone and Mainoo coming up who will have the chance to audition for his partner' s role, Ugarte will have his uses, Bruno pushes up to play alongside Cunha and a new striker.
If Amorim makes it to a second summer he will sign a CCB with very strong 'in possession' qualities who will step up to be in DLP on the ball. Ugarte and Ederson hard running will cover the spaces that open up in defensive transitions whilst the latter will also have the role as a box crusher.
Cunha, Delap, Ederson and a Keeper should be enough to see a positive 30 point swing and get us into top 6 or thereabouts. If we get there, the next task will be improving on the CCB, RWB and possibly bring in a £100m striker should Delap or whoever we sign no convince us enough.
The remit for the summer spending spree is to ensure that we improve our creativity, goal scoring and cut out the silly goals we concede. A more settled Yoro and De Ligt plus a better keeper should cut out the easy goals we give away. The Ugarte will be more settles, Kobie a year older, Ederson in, Cunha and new striker will make us more competitive.
Much better. With the hyperbole removed it now reads like an opinion.
Yeah think you are spot on there
Do you honestly believe we get GK and this guy?
If we need to take punts then we should be taking them with players already at the club in the academy system first
I wouldn't mind that, that has been my default position ever since the scale of the previous regime's damage has unravelled. I strongly believe that the academy has the potential to help bring the club back into profit and eventually as a competitive force, the impact a player like Heaven (I know he isn't our product) made was encouraging.
Whilst we still have players like De Ligt, Casemiro and Bruno I think we are missing a trick by not introducing more of these kids especially now that the league season is a write off.
So, where do you stand on the player and what’s your views on the player?
I agree. I want to see Sekou Kone
We can't play a full academy team in the PL, some of them are not ready for that level yet, and we did start with 5 20 or younger against Wolves
Well Mainoo isn't a stand out passer at all, and which of those 2 will be playing as a cm and with whom?
Signing him would be paying a premium for a steady, solid player that shouldn’t be a huge flop but doesn’t have a very high ceiling.
Same applies to De Ligt and Ugarte, at some point though we’ve got to find some significantly better players and pick up some of these steady players for 25-30m rather than 40-50m.
Same applies to De Ligt and Ugarte, at some point though we’ve got to find some significantly better players and pick up some of these steady players for 25-30m rather than 40-50m.
I’m sorry but at those prices, very unlikely to happen. Seems like the CAF always wants a lot for very litte
Surprised the Caf is so down on him. After the CL game against Liverpool a year or so ago, everyone was crying out for us to sign him.
Not at all unlikely, only have to look at some of the players other teams have picked up for less than 40-50m.
Yeah he was definitely flavour of the month then
For 50m we could try our chances at Hugo Larsson. At least got higher ceiling and is much younger, while still being ready for the next step.
I really dont get the hate. He would be our best midfielder. Yes we would still be missing the DLP role next to him but he would add Strength, pace and ball carrying ability. None of which we have in midfield. Has no one seen our midfield get bullied and spanked round the pitch? Id love Wharton but you need the worker next to him and Ugarte is not it. We should get Stiller next to him as a budget Wharton alternative. Stiller and Ederson is the perfect combination. Wharton and Ugarte or Ugarte + Bruno/Mainoo/anyone is not
On Ugarte?
I think he’s decent at winning the ball back and providing a shield - his job. Would like to see him stepping in and winning it back further up the field, he did this for a while, but seems we’re doing that less as a team recently.
There are plenty of instances over this season where he’s executed a turnover that’s turned into a good attack : chance / goal.
I think whilst his passing isn’t scholes like it’s more than adequate for his role, and possibly a little underrated by internet fans who expect every player to do everything, even though that’s not realistic.
Our team / squad is better with him than without him.
In a scenario where we have added Ederson to our squad?
Strongest pairing Ederson and Fernandes, with the latter as the no.6 and former as the no.8. They could be used the other way about too. Mainoo an option in place of Bruno. Ugarte an option in place of Ederson, but always as the holding midfielder and whichever of Fernandes or Mainoo as the box to box. Ugarte as the no.6 together with Ederson as the no.8, and Bruno and Kobbie together with either at no.6, the less desirable options.
Again, in Fernandes and Mainoo we have one player who is generally regarded as our best and another who is a high quality young player. And for me both have been at their best in the deep midfield pair. So I don't agree with the clamouring for a playmaker to replace them.
There are potentially some great options for a playmaking central midfielder purchase - Reijnders, Palacios, Stiller, Fabian Ruiz or Zaire-Emery, and Jashari spring to mind - but, frankly, i don't believe any of them or anyone we could conceivably buy actually are, or could be, particularly better than Bruno with how he has been performing in a deeper role. And they couldn't play with Fernandes - it would have to be Ugarte (or Casemiro).
Same issue were we to buy more of a playmaking holding player such as Zubimendi - you would want someone more physical to compliment Bruno. Our options for the more gritty, destructive half of our midfield two aren't as strong as the two more technical operators, and Fernandes should be the first midfielder on the team sheet, so if we are to purchase a midfielder they should be more of that ilk.
Are there any no.6s we could get who are great passers and would be an asset in possession who marry that ability with the requisite physicality to compliment Bruno? None come to mind.
So all of your combinations are unbalanced, lacking either defense or passing, or both.
Either of Fernandes or Mainoo with either of Ederson or Ugarte would be an adequately balanced combination.
Pairing Fernandes with Mainoo or Ederson with Ugarte would be relatively unbalanced.
I think the general consensus is he's a good/great player, but not exactly what we need ahead of other midfield types.
The problem with McFred is it’s 2 players covering the role of 1.
More from Romano
Cunha, Delap, and Ederson. I can think of worse summers.
What is he like in possession?
Don’t know much about him but he seems a ball winner, engine in midfield, similar to Ugarte.
We’ve need someone who can control the tempo of a game, a Rodri profile player.
Don’t know much about him but he seems a ball winner, engine in midfield, similar to Ugarte.
We’ve need someone who can control the tempo of a game, a Rodri profile player.
From what I can see, he is a more well-rounded midfielder than what we have now and what is considered the top 2 midfielders (debatable) in the PL. Let me know if you want to compare anyone else.
Based on your views:
He’s not playmaker. It’s unrealistic to expect him to do everything so He’s not all round midfielder either.
And he’s only decent at winning the ball back and providing a shield.
Based on your description of him, it fits exactly what I said about we wasted our money. IMO 50m for a decent at his job winning the ball back and providing a shield is over-valued.
Whilst I think Bruno is good as a 10 - I believe this is more to do with him being a good player than a position that gets the best out of him. Bruno is better in CM.
The reason I say this is because Bruno is still going to be vital for next season - so Bruno & Ederson will play in midfield more so than Ugarte & Ederson.
I didn't follow Sporting much, but with all the defenders in the first 11 maybe we don't need the traditional CDM type player and more energetic players in the middle is what we need. Bruno & Ederson as a pairing might work.
The reason I say this is because Bruno is still going to be vital for next season - so Bruno & Ederson will play in midfield more so than Ugarte & Ederson.
I didn't follow Sporting much, but with all the defenders in the first 11 maybe we don't need the traditional CDM type player and more energetic players in the middle is what we need. Bruno & Ederson as a pairing might work.
Yes. I like the profile the club is aiming for. No more overpriced, over the hill ageing big names.
Agreed. Amorim wants intensity, and all the players we're going for seem to bring it.
We actually need to build a squad. The renaissance of Casemiro is nice and extends our timeline a bit. I think bringing in two strikers may actually help our midfield honestly
Interesting… I was expecting Rice to jump off the charts, but I guess this reflects the fact that he’s playing further forward.From what I can see, he is a more well-rounded midfielder than what we have now and what is considered the top 2 midfielders (debatable) in the PL. Let me know if you want to compare anyone else.
The huge problem with this is it’s Serie A vs a vastly faster, aggressive, more athletic league; weighted for contrast, the data for him is not impressive and doesn’t provide any evidence he can come to a more athletic league and even maintain those numbers, let alone improve upon them.From what I can see, he is a more well-rounded midfielder than what we have now and what is considered the top 2 midfielders (debatable) in the PL. Let me know if you want to compare anyone else.
I’m no PL snob, but there are certain metrics that need to be considered when players come in from other leagues - you want superstar performers with huge performance points and potential; even if they don’t improve upon what they were doing, they at least fall in with the pack. Newcastle got it right with Tonali, for example, and obviously someone like Barella is the type you’d expect to come to the PL and still be elite.
If he does come here, I sure hope he proves the scouts right, but if he doesn’t deliver, or even translate his Atalanta level to a harder, more athletic league, it can’t come as a surprise because there’s nothing elite about him as he is now. You want off the charts data points relative to the league to think you’ve got a transformative player coming your way. What’s more, we saw the evolution of Rice and Caicedo in this league and that’s whole different kettle of fish.