So to clarify, you're calling Guus Hiddink a liar?
Eden Hazard | "It's time to enjoy life drinking beers"
- Thread starter Samid
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Yeah I’m fairly indifferent/neutral in terms of likability - he came across ok, I had a giggle when he kicked that ball boy once
but I also found his announcement thing a little cringe. But all in all yeah, I didn’t mind himHence I said the eye test….because if you watch the 2 players, you’d see they’re not even comparable in terms of quality….yet here we are. Also, I’m not a stat boffin but I’d guess Hazard put up much better numbers than ASM anyway?
Yeah id say I’d agree that he was world class but there’s legitimate debate I guess, over classifying him “third best” after Messi and Ronaldo, which is what some are disputing. For that, you’d probably need to do a little more than just win/dominate domestically.
It's very hard for even the best players to overcome that, but he always caused us trouble. Even the fact we sacrificed a CM to man mark a winger causes problems. The rest of the team just never really exploit the areas vacated. But we've done this tactic against other top players.
Not really higher, since Hazard won silver ball which is for 2nd best player. Jorginho only won 3rd best, which based on your posts I feel the need to explain is actually worse than 2nd best despite it being a bigger number.
Yeah go ahead and proffer an attacker who played for the likes of those 3 for 5 years during their prime and was a better player. I'll wait
Hazard got to an attacking team, took a month to adapt and was excellent, then had a more or less career ending injury at the hands of Meunier. Having an ankle broken is an excuse now? Pointless to continue this if you think so; carry on hating all you like because Hazard is miles clear of Thomas Mueller
Not every player goes to the world cup, e.g Haaland might never play one. Jorginho was 3rd in an award open to every player
So you are now admitting that the Ballon d'Or process is flawed?
In Bayern Hazard probably will have more CL goals than just Neuer
In Bayern Hazard would have been prime Ribery mark II. Same level of talent pretty indisputably.
So you are just going to ignore when he played under Pellegrini and Mancini then?.
Thats not what i said, you just going to ignore what i said ok.
One example Hazard away to Man City 2013/2014 watch the comp on Youtube, No G/A from him but he was clearly the best player on the pitch
I don't think anyone is really doubting Hazard's talents. And I would have loved him as the heir to Ribery on Bayern's left wing.
But the truth is also, that - for whatever reasons - Hazard didn't show up in the CL.
Yep. I'd agree with that.
How exactly is football an output game? There are few sports in which points scored say so little about a performance as in football. Basketball maybe but football? I mean, 99% of what happens on the pitch has no goal threat
If you are an attacker. It helps a lot to put goals and assists on the board
Can you name a highly rated attacker who doesnt score? Football is not gymnastics you need goals to win
1. No one here has ever rated Silva as next to Messi and Ronaldo. when you see such comparison then you can be sure his numbers would be out there. Silva is a good player no one is comparing him with legends
If you had rated Hazard with Silva, no one will question that.
That's probably his real level which is good but not just Suarez Neymar Mbappe etc tier
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Same as Henry. He performed in PL when It was overrated. And both under performed in UCL.
Just look how many PL teams made it in the UCL finals while he was at Chelsea… Not a lot…
PL increased in level and dominate the UCL after he went to real though
Based solely on looking at goal stats Romelu Lukaku and Kevin Phillips are greater players than Dennis Bergkamp.
Sure. But my broader point is that the pervasive narrative that Hazard was dogshit in the CL for 7 years is flatly incorrect.
Lukaku and Phillips are Center Forwards 9. Bergkamp was not a 9 and did not play as a 9
You think he was great in the CL and others didnt just notice?
Given that you seem incapable of reading I'm not sure you should be a barometer of noticing things?
Nice attempt at a strawman though. The point is he only played 3.5 years of CL football at Chelsea in his 7 years. Calling him awful in the CL for 7 years when he literally wasn't able to participate in the competition for half the time is just silly.
This id agree with. He's clearly a good, even world-class player, but the frustration I have always had with him is he was one of the few players with the talent to get close to Messi and Ronaldo but he lacked their mentality. In the end that meant there are hundreds of players over the last couple of decades you'd have in your side before Hazard. I think about someone like Robben. Hazard was more talented than Robben for me, but during his peak, Robben was one of the few players who could stand up alongside the elite and he did that by contributing meaningful goals and moments. IMO in those same moments Hazard wilted.
So 10s/second forwards can't have goal stats used against them but left wingers can? Got it!
Bingo. I rated Robben higher than Ribery
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Since 442 was mostly eliminated for 3 forwards, the wide attackers are expected to score. Which is why Robben Salah, Bale Neymar Mane Mbappe etc have goals. Hazard is a wide forward not a winger in the mold of David Beckham
I don't expect Hazard to score as much as Haaland Lewandowski who are pure 9s but to at least match those world class wide forwards in his generation like those listed above
Hazard played 5 seasons of CL football for Chelsea in his 7yrs. Same duration Willian played and scored more(excluding penalties) for the same Chelsea
So why shouldn't Bergkamp have been expected to score more as a second striker in a 442 by the same logic?
Bergkamp cannot be expected to score more than real 9 like Lukaku and Phillips
And sure Bergkamp scored more goals than Hazard about 100 more actually
Hazard isn't miles ahead of Muller.
Problem is Hazard for all his talent and excellence, barely showed up in CL. Barely. While Muller on the other hand, has been a great success in big occassions. Talent wise, after Messi, I think Hazard deserves to be up there with the likes of Iniesta, Neymar and so on in terms of creative and ball skills. But as a performer, he isn't miles ahead of Muller. A little example, Muller is in the top 10 assister of CL, while Hazard isn't even top 50. And Muller has more goals than Hazard in CL, more goals than him in international football and more goals overall. While ofcourse when it comes to eye catching ability with the ball, Hazard is miles ahead of Muller, but as a player whose duty is to deliver the goods for the team. He isn't far ahead of Muller, who himself is an enigma.
Talent wise Hazard was superior to Ribery.
Robben had higher highs. Ribery was more consistent.
Both world class players that are missed.
Hazard did things that Robben couldn't do. But Robben had that killer instinct in him.
I think some people have a distorted view of Hazard, because he's such an aesthetically pleasing to watch. His technique is superb and he has moments where he turns into almost Messi-lite. But he's a serial under-performer in the CL and it's really hard to ignore how he gets his 'dream' move to Real Madrid and turns up overweight.
Someone like Salah is far less aesthetically pleasing, but he's the more effective footballer and I would imagine he suits a wider range of teams(historically) than Hazard does.
Someone like Salah is far less aesthetically pleasing, but he's the more effective footballer and I would imagine he suits a wider range of teams(historically) than Hazard does.
What are the things that Hazard can do that Robben can't?
Should have joined us when Fergie came calling...
Is this one of those threads where people forget what a quality player Hazard was in the Premier league for many a season?
Don't think that's happening here.
There's more people overrating Hazard in this thread than underrating him(if any to be honest).
No, that is precisely the argument. He was amazing in the PL but kinda underperformed in the CL.
I think those kind of arguments are a bit pointless. You need your team to have a good CL run to leave your mark in the CL yourself nd Chelsea never really had one when Hazard was there. I mean, imagine prime Hazard in Bayern's 2020 team, does anybody believe he wouldn't have performed there? Or for Liverpool/City?
Well, he'd weaken that specific team's number 1 strength(arguably) which was their pressing off the ball.
Not sure he really improves that team honestly.
Do Liverpool really get better swapping out Mane for Hazard? Not convinced they do. He's better individually than Mane, but Mane added a lot of value to that team.