Eden Hazard | "It's time to enjoy life drinking beers"

kaiser1 said:
The difference with those is that they had output. Messi and Maradona are one of the greatest scorers of all time. Also nowadays, defences are better structured and less 1v1 man marking.
If those dribbles are getting the output of goals and assists no one will worry. E.g Hazard has 9 career CL goals. For context, current active players who play that way Messi is the 2nd all time scorer in the CL history, Neymar has 41 CL goals.
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Zidane, one of the greatest and most creative players of all time has 14 career CL goals. Luis Figo, one of the greatest and most creative players of all time, scored 28 goals in 136 games in all European comps. Garrincha, one of the greatest and most creative players of all time, scored 12 goals for Brazil. Rivelino, one of the greatest and most creative players of all time, scored 26 goals for Brazil. Stanley Matthews, one of the greatest and most creative players of all time, scored 11 goals for England and 80 club goals in his entire career, which lasted over 30 years.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Trying to equate number of goals with worth (except for out and out poachers) is the mark of someone who has a poor understanding of the sport. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's true. Please put down the calculator and try and use your eyes.
 
Andrade said:
Zidane, one of the greatest and most creative players of all time has 14 career CL goals. Luis Figo, one of the greatest and most creative players of all time, scored 28 goals in 136 games in all European comps. Garrincha, one of the greatest and most creative players of all time, scored 12 goals for Brazil. Rivelino, one of the greatest and most creative players of all time, scored 26 goals for Brazil. Stanley Matthews, one of the greatest and most creative players of all time, scored 11 goals for England and 80 club goals in his entire career, which lasted over 30 years.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Trying to equate number of goals with worth (except for out and out poachers) is the mark of someone who has a poor understanding of the sport. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's true. Please put down the calculator and try and use your eyes.
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Once again, these guys played about 2 decades ago and over in a different system that is so different than what applies today. Football is different now than it used to be.
No one used to care about keepers being good with their feet,
No one used to care about defenders passing or playing a high line,
No one cared about attackers pressing high up the field.
If you have to go back 2 decades and sometimes almost 6 decades to find a player to justify a player that is still active today then there is something really wrong
We compare Hazards output to fellow top rated wing forwards playing today at the same time, he fails but you want us to go back to the time 90% of the forum nor Hazard himself were not born to see the output of Stanley Matthews and Garrincha?
 
kaiser1 said:
Once again, these guys played about 2 decades ago and over in a different system that is so different than what applies today.
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Yep, in an era where CMs often produced high numbers (ala Lampard and Gerrard).

So by your own logic you've used in this thread Zidane was inferior to those two.
 
Bebestation said:
Hazard is just a Coutinho for me.

Is a fantastic player when made to be the central of the whole team but leads to the other players not shining much within the same team.

When playing for a team with top quality players that are playing their own game at a top quality with ease - then this leads him to not being as good.

I even saw this for Belgium, he was a bit of a disappointment for me when playing for them in comparison to how he played for Chelsea. Felt De Bryune and even Lukaku were better players for Beligum (even though Hazard was their 2nd highest scorer).
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There is a difference in playing for Chelsea where Kante bust his guts wins the ball, pass to Hazard who attempt to dribble 5 defenders lose it, Kante and co start hustling to recover pass to Hazard who tries it again. After the 10th attempt succeeds and score
vs Playing in Madrid where you have football legends like Modric Kroos Benzema, Bale busting their guts working together, they wont just continue passing to Hazard and watch him attempt the same skills over to lose the ball 8 times
 
kaiser1 said:
There is a difference in playing for Chelsea where Kane bust his guts wins the ball, pass to Hazard who attempt to dribble 5 defenders lose it, Kante and co start hustling to recover pass to Hazard who tries it again. After the 10th attempt succeeds and score
vs Playing in Madrid where you have football legends like Modric Kroos Benzema, Bale busting their guts working together, they wont just continue passing to Hazard and watch him attempt the same skills over to lose the ball 8 times
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I mean this beginning to sound like some kind of personal agenda. Almost trollish. What an absurd description of Hazard's time at Chelsea.
 
Dancfc said:
Yep, in an era where CMs often produced high numbers (ala Lampard and Gerrard).

So by your own logic you've used in this thread Zidane was inferior to those two.
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A midfielders role is to win, hold and recycle possession. Goalscoring is not a metric to measure midfielders. Modric is one of the best midfielder of this generation, he doesnt score a lot. An attackers job is to create goals
Hierro is one of the highest scoring defenders, I don't hear people talking about him as one of the all time defenders because he scores or Chilavert/Rogerio Ceni as goalkeeping greats since they scores
 
kaiser1 said:
There is a difference in playing for Chelsea where Kante bust his guts wins the ball, pass to Hazard who attempt to dribble 5 defenders lose it, Kante and co start hustling to recover pass to Hazard who tries it again. After the 10th attempt succeeds and score
vs Playing in Madrid where you have football legends like Modric Kroos Benzema, Bale busting their guts working together, they wont just continue passing to Hazard and watch him attempt the same skills over to lose the ball 8 times
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Exactly.

He felt like he always had the ball at Chelsea.
 
kaiser1 said:
A midfielders role is to win, hold and recycle possession. Goalscoring is not a metric to measure midfielders.
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Your logic that Hazard should be scoring more is players in his position do, well same applied to Zidane, Iniesta and Xavi I'm afraid, shouldn't they have scored more because Lampard and Gerrard did? Again going by your logic I don't actually think that.
 
kaiser1 said:
Once again, these guys played about 2 decades ago and over in a different system that is so different than what applies today. Football is different now than it used to be.
No one used to care about keepers being good with their feet,
No one used to care about defenders passing or playing a high line,
No one cared about attackers pressing high up the field.
If you have to go back 2 decades and sometimes almost 6 decades to find a player to justify a player that is still active today then there is something really wrong
We compare Hazards output to fellow top rated wing forwards playing today at the same time, he fails but you want us to go back to the time 90% of the forum nor Hazard himself were not born to see the output of Stanley Matthews and Garrincha?
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This is just further evidence that your knowledge is lacking. I say that with the greatest of respect. If you think that all started in 2010 then you really need to learn more about the game.
 
Dancfc said:
Your logic that Hazard should be scoring more is players in his position do, well same applied to Zidane, Iniesta and Xavi I'm afraid, shouldn't they have scored more because Lampard and Gerrard did? Again going by your logic I don't actually think that.
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An attacker, a midfielder, a defender. What are they expected to do in a game? Are you doing what you are expected to a high level?
 
Andrade said:
This is just further evidence that your knowledge is lacking. I say that with the greatest of respect. If you think that all started in 2010 then you really need to learn more about the game.
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All these did not start now, but they are now the basic expectation of every player in those position while it used to be the exception in those days. e.g Sacchis Milan doing it at a time when it was not popular
 
kaiser1 said:
The difference with those is that they had output. Messi and Maradona are one of the greatest scorers of all time. Also nowadays, defences are better structured and less 1v1 man marking.
If those dribbles are getting the output of goals and assists no one will worry. E.g Hazard has 9 career CL goals. For context, current active players who play that way Messi is the 2nd all time scorer in the CL history, Neymar has 41 CL goals.
Click to expand...

Hazard has output though you only can mention his CL record which by no means is great, but other better players have caveats some in international football some in CL football, it happens.
 
kaiser1 said:
There is a difference in playing for Chelsea where Kante bust his guts wins the ball, pass to Hazard who attempt to dribble 5 defenders lose it, Kante and co start hustling to recover pass to Hazard who tries it again. After the 10th attempt succeeds and score
vs Playing in Madrid where you have football legends like Modric Kroos Benzema, Bale busting their guts working together, they wont just continue passing to Hazard and watch him attempt the same skills over to lose the ball 8 times
Click to expand...

As attackers - and particularly those partial to dribbling - go, Hazard hardly ever lost the ball. He is the opposite of how you paint him here, not a wasteful player whatsoever. Very sensible and effective. You are describing Neymar.
 
kaiser1 said:
An attacker, a midfielder, a defender. What are they expected to do in a game? Are you doing what you are expected to a high level?
Click to expand...
Fullbacks are defenders and are expected to make significant contributions at the other end of the pitch (and by significant contributions I'm not just talking goals and assists). It's why Wan Bissaka is about 200th choice RB for England despite having a case for being the best one from a defensive POV. It's why Azpi struggled for years to get into the Spain side despite being an absolutely ridiculous defender.

So no football is not that straight forward where you look at the top line with no depth like you're doing.
 
kaiser1 said:
There is a difference in playing for Chelsea where Kante bust his guts wins the ball, pass to Hazard who attempt to dribble 5 defenders lose it, Kante and co start hustling to recover pass to Hazard who tries it again. After the 10th attempt succeeds and score
vs Playing in Madrid where you have football legends like Modric Kroos Benzema, Bale busting their guts working together, they wont just continue passing to Hazard and watch him attempt the same skills over to lose the ball 8 times
Click to expand...

You must have not watched him too much, even the way you act as if Hazard isn’t one of the most efficient dribblers of the last 30 years or so, check the stats watch his past games, he rarely lost the ball even when in full tilt he was probably more likely to get fouled and he played most of his best years without Kante so don’t even know the point in bringing him up.
 
Righteous Steps said:
Hazard has output though you only can mention his CL record which by no means is great, but other better players have caveats some in international football some in CL football, it happens.
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Hazards output
CL 9 goals, world cup 3 goals, Euro 1 goal. Any other place you want us to check?
 
sherrinford said:
As attackers - and particularly those partial to dribbling - go, Hazard hardly ever lost the ball. He is the opposite of how you paint him here, not a wasteful player whatsoever. Very sensible and effective. You are describing Neymar.
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Hazard loses his fair share of the ball or win fouls
Neymar has 41 CL goals to show. which is what makes his dribbles losing the ball more "acceptable". Same with Messi. If you dribble that much with very little output then.. You are just playing to the gallery
 
Dancfc said:
Fullbacks are defenders and are expected to make significant contributions at the other end of the pitch (and by significant contributions I'm not just talking goals and assists). It's why Wan Bissaka is about 200th choice RB for England despite having a case for being the best one from a defensive POV. It's why Azpi struggled for years to get into the Spain side despite being an absolutely ridiculous defender.

So no football is not that straight forward where you look at the top line with no depth like you're doing.
Click to expand...

Full backs are not the regular Central defenders. By Defenders I mean CBs. Full Backs is expected to combine attack and defence which is why some of the highest rated FBs have offensive output like Breitner, R.Carlos, Lahm, Alves, Cafu right now Davies Cancelo and Trent
 
kaiser1 said:
Once again, these guys played about 2 decades ago and over in a different system that is so different than what applies today. Football is different now than it used to be.
No one used to care about keepers being good with their feet,
No one used to care about defenders passing or playing a high line,
No one cared about attackers pressing high up the field.
If you have to go back 2 decades and sometimes almost 6 decades to find a player to justify a player that is still active today then there is something really wrong
We compare Hazards output to fellow top rated wing forwards playing today at the same time, he fails but you want us to go back to the time 90% of the forum nor Hazard himself were not born to see the output of Stanley Matthews and Garrincha?
Click to expand...
indeed. apples to oranges
Dancfc said:
Yep, in an era where CMs often produced high numbers (ala Lampard and Gerrard).

So by your own logic you've used in this thread Zidane was inferior to those two.
Click to expand...
actually Zidane and Figo were pretty much finito when Gerrard and Lampard were scoring loads. Zidane retired in 2006. Figo and Zidane are 90s players
 
kaiser1 said:
All these did not start now, but they are now the basic expectation of every player in those position while it used to be the exception in those days. e.g Sacchis Milan doing it at a time when it was not popular
Click to expand...

Or you could go with the Dutch who were doing it 20 years before that. And they didn't invent it either. And defenders passing the ball? Please.

But that's not the point. The point is that you can be a great attacking and creative player without being a prolific goalscorer. That was true in 1930, it was true in 1950, it was true in 1980 and it's true today.

Moreover, Hazard has 200 career goals, and many of them were spectacular. I'm not sure why you're trying to spin it like he never actually scores.
 
Righteous Steps said:
You must have not watched him too much, even the way you act as if Hazard isn’t one of the most efficient dribblers of the last 30 years or so, check the stats watch his past games, he rarely lost the ball even when in full tilt he was probably more likely to get fouled and he played most of his best years without Kante so don’t even know the point in bringing him up.
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These efficient dribbles are not getting him and his teammate the goals. You can sub Kante for any other midfielder doing that work. To carry that type of dribbler you need someone willing to mop up. At Madrid you have players who are great players i their own right and wont give that type of deference to Hazard.
Moreover that give to Hazard tactic is easy to stop at the high level. If your teams tactic is "give to Hazard" then a Mourinho can simply "deploy a Herrera" to manmark him or a "Hack-a-Hazard" away from the box the moment he touches the ball to win numerous fouls in non threatening areas
 
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Andrade said:
Or you could go with the Dutch who were doing it 20 years before that. And they didn't invent it either. And defenders passing the ball? Please.

But that's not the point. The point is that you can be a great attacking and creative player without being a prolific goalscorer. That was true in 1930, it was true in 1950, it was true in 1980 and it's true today.

Moreover, Hazard has 200 career goals, and many of them were spectacular. I'm not sure why you're trying to spin it like he never actually scores.
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My reference was to Milan because thats one of the first sides I watched playing like that

Most of these 200 goals were in the league. I admit he is a very good EPL player but on the continent he was a poor scorer
This is the what he has done in his career till date
CL 9 goals, world cup 3 goals, Euro 1 goal
 
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cyberman said:
Hazard constantly holds (held) onto the ball for too long that broke down attacks. It’s the same problem as Pogba in not getting it away quick enough and slowing down play.
Lukaku was in line for too scorer in that tournament when Hazard was sidelined. As soon as he started getting the ball more the rest of the attack suffered.
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Hazard was the highest assister in Euro 2016.
 
kaiser1 said:
Hazards output
CL 9 goals, world cup 3 goals, Euro 1 goal. Any other place you want us to check?
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He had the most assists in Euro 16 and was officially voted the 2nd best player in the World Cup 2018, that alone should tell you you can have great performances without scoring goals, the problem maybe is you don’t watch games and attempt to judge by simply going and reading stats on a sheet.
 
kaiser1 said:
Hazard loses his fair share of the ball or win fouls
Neymar has 41 CL goals to show. which is what makes his dribbles losing the ball more "acceptable". Same with Messi. If you dribble that much with very little output then.. You are just playing to the gallery
Click to expand...

He did not lose his fair share of the ball at all, and consistently delivered output. He was extremely efficient, taking great care in possession not to give it away yet providing a constant threat. Hazard struck a great balance.

Neymar is very speculative and therefore loses the ball considerably more, and too much, which is offset by how often he provides a killer moment, but only to a degree and not, for me, to the extent that he has a more positive effect on his team than Hazard did.
 
I honestly don't know how Hazard is compared to Neymar by some of you.

Neymar has always been clear of him.
 
An extra £20m flows its way to Chelsea from the transfer that keeps on giving. Up to what, £160m now?
 
WeePat said:
An extra £20m flows its way to Chelsea from the transfer that keeps on giving. Up to what, £160m now?
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I'm delighted he's sweeping up on the medals there despite his struggles.

He dragged Lillie and us to titles so it's only fair he gets it done for him :lol:
 
Dancfc said:
I'm delighted he's sweeping up on the medals there despite his struggles.

He dragged Lillie and us to titles so it's only fair he gets it done for him :lol:
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Yeah, he tweeted he's joining the European champions, Chelsea did very little in the CL the whole time he was there and then he leaves and Chelsea win it again knocking his team out in the process :lol: A player of his quality deserved a CL.
 
Dancfc said:
I'm delighted he's sweeping up on the medals there despite his struggles.

He dragged Lillie and us to titles so it's only fair he gets it done for him :lol:
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Yeah buzzing for him in a weird way. I think that's the end of the built in clauses now? We've squeezed the maximum of money of that transfer. Chelsea legend this guy.
 
WeePat said:
Yeah buzzing for him in a weird way. I think that's the end of the built in clauses now? We've squeezed the maximum of money of that transfer. Chelsea legend this guy.
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The only potential one still to activate would be a treble but if not I imagine that's it.

It's quite fecked that we got 10x more out of a bit part player winning UCL for another club than we would have got had we won the two domestic cups.
 
Dancfc said:
The only potential one still to activate would be a treble but if not I imagine that's it.

It's quite fecked that we got 10x more out of a bit part player winning UCL for another club than we would have got had we won the two domestic cups.
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Were does it say Chelsea get 20 M for RM winning CL?
 
I am happy for him, great player and he deserves this to round off his career. On the other hand he'll give even less of a feck now he's got the final medal that he wanted, he'll return from holidays weighing 200lbs.
 
He has played 83 minutes in the CL all season, how could he take any pride in this “achievement”? I can’t imagine this medal means much to him.
 
My guy has played an average of 22 games per season at Real, who knows how many actual minutes in those games.

He has 2 league titles, a spanish super cup and a champions league and has had nothing to do with any of them :lol:
 
I hope the wanker is enjoying the vacations and all the trophies!

:lol: :mad:
 
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