Eden Hazard | "It's time to enjoy life drinking beers"

This year he is forgiven for being the first and that uncomfortable injury.
The fans think they haven't seen the real Hazard.
I read an article a long time ago saying that Hazard found it more difficult to face in la liga, because he found more compact teams.
True or not at present he can't surpass anyone.
Right now it is what Zidane says so he is getting some good massages from the press.However, this level will not justify leaving Vini on the bench again and again.
Now he needs to have a good preseason, and stop the burger silliness and complacency.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Not shocked to see a Chelsea fan rush in to defend. Pointless post.
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I wasn't shocked either at the name associated with the post. My post is as pointless as yours mate, a WUM piece.
Mane, Salah ? Since when 2018?
Yaya? David Silva? So Hazard didn't fulfill some mental capability to statpile goals + assists but these lot did?
Kane? Sanchez? Lolz what a joke! Kane has fulfilled his latent potential of almost going trophiless his entire career. Don't even get me started on Sanchez.

Out of your WUM piece list + the ghosts your forgot to add, I'll probably take Aguero(consistency and stayed long enough to be compared) and Suarez (was pure gold and unlucky not to win the league with Pool). Would make a case for Debruyne as he is also WC at what he does best and better than everyone else at it in the last decade.

That's Top 5 in the last decade.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
He’s a good player but I’d argue he’s certainly below in the last decade:
- Aguero
- Silva
- Suarez
- Yaya
- De Bruyne
- Salah
- Mane
- Kane
- Sanchez

Probably forgetting afew more. He’s always been a good player with supreme talent but a poor mentality. The moment he said he wasn’t interested in competing for goals was when you could just tell his mentality was far from elite. I think he’s overrated primarily because he’s one of the best dribblers of his generation and those players always tent to get higher praise than more effective peers.
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I think that's a bit harsh. Mane has been phenomenal in the last few seasons, but I don't think he's matched Hazard yet; same for Sanchez - he had a handful of amazing seasons at Arsenal but I don't think he matched Hazard's output. I think there is a good argument for the other players you have listed, although I wouldn't say that it is definitive in any of those cases.
 
Mount's Goatieson said:
I wasn't shocked either at the name associated with the post. My post is as pointless as yours mate, a WUM piece.
Mane, Salah ? Since when 2018?
Yaya? David Silva? So Hazard didn't fulfill some mental capability to statpile goals + assists but these lot did?
Kane? Sanchez? Lolz what a joke! Kane has fulfilled his latent potential of almost going trophiless his entire career. Don't even get me started on Sanchez.

Out of your WUM piece list + the ghosts your forgot to add, I'll probably take Aguero(consistency and stayed long enough to be compared) and Suarez (was pure gold and unlucky not to win the league with Pool). Would make a case for Debruyne as he is also WC at what he does best and better than everyone else at it in the last decade.

That's Top 5 in the last decade.
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The thing is I can't think of too many players who have scared me as a United fan the way Hazard did. He had that one washout of a season (2015-16?) but other than that, I just remember a devastating and often decisive opponent. I would have loved to have had him at United.
 
gajender said:
What's this based on Its easy to get carried away when it comes to young players but I don't think Pulisic is in same class as Harzard and I highly doubt he would reach similar heights even.
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What really stands out about Pulisic for me is his desire and hunger. Just something innate within him.
 
Mount's Goatieson said:
I wasn't shocked either at the name associated with the post. My post is as pointless as yours mate, a WUM piece.
Mane, Salah ? Since when 2018?
Yaya? David Silva? So Hazard didn't fulfill some mental capability to statpile goals + assists but these lot did?
Kane? Sanchez? Lolz what a joke! Kane has fulfilled his latent potential of almost going trophiless his entire career. Don't even get me started on Sanchez.

Out of your WUM piece list + the ghosts your forgot to add, I'll probably take Aguero(consistency and stayed long enough to be compared) and Suarez (was pure gold and unlucky not to win the league with Pool). Would make a case for Debruyne as he is also WC at what he does best and better than everyone else at it in the last decade.

That's Top 5 in the last decade.
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Its really not a WUM though, it's purely my opinion from watching this league all my life. David Silva was a genius, just a better player than Hazard. Yaya an unstoppable force. Salah has had a better individual season than Hazard ever even got close too and has just (alongside Mane) fired his team to Champions League and Premier League titles back to back which again Hazard never did. Kane I think is close and the most arguable, I would just prefer him as a player, again delivers far more goals for his team overall. Sanchez, I remember there being loads of debate at their peaks who was better but for me (and many others) it was Sanchez who won out. The Chilean had a terrier-like work rate and combined that with the ability to absolutely bang in goals. Hazard just never had that top-level hunger for goals and that's an unforgivable weakness despite his fantastic career overall.

One thing I would say though is you are massively underrating the players I've mentioned as if they are just some low level no names. We are comparing him with the best players of the last decade. I have given Hazard all the respect he deserves as a top player, but I just think he's overrated when people say he's been a class above.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
The players I’ve mentioned are some of the best around so I’m not sure why people are getting a offended. To me Hazard never really made full use of his ability. He could have been as good as Robben etc but was always a class below because he wasn’t mentally strong enough and didn’t have enough hunger for it. All those other players have fulfilled their maximum potential relative to their abilities.
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He carried our attack on his back for most of his time with us most spectacurly so in the second half of 14/15 when everyone around him bar Courtois completely collapsed.

To say he's not mentally strong enough is absolute bull.
 
I dont think Im over reacting when I say he's been as bad for madrid as Alexis was for us.
 
jem said:
I think that's a bit harsh. Mane has been phenomenal in the last few seasons, but I don't think he's matched Hazard yet; same for Sanchez - he had a handful of amazing seasons at Arsenal but I don't think he matched Hazard's output. I think there is a good argument for the other players you have listed, although I wouldn't say that it is definitive in any of those cases.
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When has Hazard torn a team apart in the CL knockout stages like Mane did to Bayern? Mane shows up in most big games as well and shows no fear on the pitch. Same can't be said of Hazard
 
Dancfc said:
He carried our attack on his back for most of his time with us most spectacurly so in the second half of 14/15 when everyone around him bar Courtois completely collapsed.

To say he's not mentally strong enough is absolute bull.
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He admitted he wasn’t hungry for goals, that’s just not the mentality of an elite player no matter how spin it. How would you categorise that mentality?

Edit: also he went hiding for a full season and even saying he carried you he only did that for spells never for a whole season like the players I compared him too.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
He admitted he wasn’t hungry for goals, that’s just not the mentality of an elite player no matter how spin it. How would you categorise that mentality?

Edit: also he went hiding for a full season and even saying he carried you he only did that for spells never for a whole season like the players I compared him too.
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Some players prefer being a creator, his current manager being another. Infact while we're at it, how many times did Giggs hit double figures? He was not the best finisher as it is so shooting from low percentage angles to try and pad his goal tally would be as stupid as for example a traditional poacher trying hand as a false 9.

As for him going "in hiding for a full season" he was playing with an injury for half of it.
 
Dancfc said:
Some players prefer being a creator, his current manager being another. Infact while we're at it, how many times did Giggs hit double figures? He was not the best finisher as it is so shooting from low percentage angles to try and pad his goal tally would be as stupid as for example a traditional poacher trying hand as a false 9.

As for him going "in hiding for a full season" he was playing with an injury for half of it.
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To be fair Giggs played in a different era when wingers were excepted to stay wide and deliver crosses to two front men. That has changed over the last decade with the rise in inside forwards who have eclipsed those before them by hitting massive numbers. I just truly believe Hazard was a top player only because of his elite dribbling, he was never that great at shooting and the other players mentioned were better passers of the ball. Dribblers tend to be entertaining and that’s why i can see how people like them, but I’ve just always believed in more effective and clinical players. Robben was twice the player compared to Ribery to my mind. The hardest thing in football is scoring and creating assists regularly and Hazards numbers just don’t belong in the elite category for either.
 
Abe144 said:
When has Hazard torn a team apart in the CL knockout stages like Mane did to Bayern? Mane shows up in most big games as well and shows no fear on the pitch. Same can't be said of Hazard
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Odd...
 
Mane is a totally different player than Hazard. I think Hazard is better if he's your best player and the team goes through him, but Mane is better on a great team where they don't necessarily build around him

Hazard is a high usage player who needs to hog the ball and have the team's attacking play built around him. Mane is more adaptable and is massively more effective in a collective playstyle

Also Mane single-handedly kept the final in Kiev competitive after Salah's injury had left liverpool shell shocked. That was a monster performance, in a CL final
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
To be fair Giggs played in a different era when wingers were excepted to stay wide and deliver crosses to two front men. That has changed over the last decade with the rise in inside forwards who have eclipsed those before them by hitting massive numbers. I just truly believe Hazard was a top player only because of his elite dribbling, he was never that great at shooting and the other players mentioned were better passers of the ball. Dribblers tend to be entertaining and that’s why i can see how people like them, but I’ve just always believed in more effective and clinical players. Robben was twice the player compared to Ribery to my mind. The hardest thing in football is scoring and creating assists regularly and Hazards numbers just don’t belong in the elite category for either.
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I mean, except if you look at his chances created, which were elite and led the league more or less every year. He was let down by his teammates - if you think about his time at Chelsea, he's played with exactly one other top class forward (Diego Costa). Everyone else has ranged from somewhere between "entirely mediocre" and "not good enough".

Also, Hazard is a world class finisher; his problem was that he never took enough shots, not that he wasn't good at it.
 
giorno said:
Mane is a totally different player than Hazard. I think Hazard is better if he's your best player and the team goes through him, but Mane is better on a great team where they don't necessarily build around him

Hazard is a high usage player who needs to hog the ball and have the team's attacking play built around him. Mane is more adaptable and is massively more effective in a collective playstyle

Also Mane single-handedly kept the final in Kiev competitive after Salah's injury had left liverpool shell shocked. That was a monster performance, in a CL final
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I agree with your analysis but I think Mane is better and is the player Real Madrid should have gone for instead.

Hazard is a great player but suffers from Chelsea fans' over the top adulation, what he can do and the praise he gets do not match. Sterling for example has more than double the goals Hazard has in the Champions League. They are doing the same with Kovacic.
 
Bojan11 said:
I think you need to read what you said. You called him the most overrated player in the prem and I replied with this isn’t the Ozil thread.

Well done. I don’t know why you needed to tag me, but go ahead Meg.
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I know, but Ozil is widely regarded as an overrated, luxury player. Whether that's right or wrong; he is. So I don't get how you could say he was more overrated than Hazard when most haven't rated his time in the prem that highly at all.
 
Abe144 said:
When has Hazard torn a team apart in the CL knockout stages like Mane did to Bayern? Mane shows up in most big games as well and shows no fear on the pitch. Same can't be said of Hazard
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When have you ever been singularly scared of facing Mane as a United fan the way you would be when facing peak Hazard? Herrera had to mark him like Claudio Gentile to stop him in one game. Several other games he destroyed us too, like the FA Cup final and several big Premier League games. Did the same to Arsenal, City, Liverpool. Let's not pretend he went missing in big games. Chelsea have been a bit all over the place this decade, between managers and styles. They were probably never a top 5 team in Europe for his entire Chelsea career. And maybe the only time they were, they weren't in the Champions League to capitalise on that form (Conte's first year).

Pablo18th said:
I agree with your analysis but I think Mane is better and is the player Real Madrid should have gone for instead.

Hazard is a great player but suffers from Chelsea fans' over the top adulation, what he can do and the praise he gets do not match. Sterling for example has more than double the goals Hazard has in the Champions League. They are doing the same with Kovacic.
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But he was voted the second best player in the biggest tournament in the world, the World Cup! That wasn't Chelsea adulation. He is 3-time reigning Belgium player of the year, I'm sure he'll lose it this time to De Bruyne and has been very good internationally as well.
 
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TheMagicFoolBus said:
I mean, except if you look at his chances created, which were elite and led the league more or less every year. He was let down by his teammates - if you think about his time at Chelsea, he's played with exactly one other top class forward (Diego Costa). Everyone else has ranged from somewhere between "entirely mediocre" and "not good enough".

Also, Hazard is a world class finisher; his problem was that he never took enough shots, not that he wasn't good at it.
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Yeh that’s fair enough, I’d still say there was a lack of ruthlessness with Hazard which is on display with other top top players. It’s what separates Ronaldo from other great players and I think players like Sanchez had that in spades in his pomp where I’ve always felt hazard didn’t.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Yeh that’s fair enough, I’d still say there was a lack of ruthlessness with Hazard which is on display with other top top players. It’s what separates Ronaldo from other great players and I think players like Sanchez had that in spades in his pomp where I’ve always felt hazard didn’t.
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This is the key. Hazard absolutely didn't shoot enough. Pulisic has averaged significantly more shots per 90 than Hazard ever did at Chelsea. That said, I'd still be hard pressed to agree with some of your list. The proof is in the pudding - Hazard almost single-handedly at times dragged Chelsea to league titles twice whilst surrounded by average players; not many can say that (and certainly not Alexis).
 
You'd think this thread was about Walcott the way it reads... guy's had a rough first season at a new club hampered by injuries. Judge him this time next year.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
This is the key. Hazard absolutely didn't shoot enough. Pulisic has averaged significantly more shots per 90 than Hazard ever did at Chelsea. That said, I'd still be hard pressed to agree with some of your list. The proof is in the pudding - Hazard almost single-handedly at times dragged Chelsea to league titles twice whilst surrounded by average players; not many can say that (and certainly not Alexis).
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But this isn't true though.

Fabregas, Terry and Azpi were very good in 2014-2015.

Costa and Kante were arguably just as important as Hazard in 2016-2017.

You had players performing at a high level. It wasn't just Hazard carrying a bunch of nobodies.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
But this isn't true though.

Fabregas, Terry and Azpi were very good in 2014-2015.

Costa and Kante were arguably just as important as Hazard in 2016-2017.

You had players performing at a high level. It wasn't just Hazard carrying a bunch of nobodies.
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Don't think he carried them to the titles in those particular seasons but in the last two seasons Chelsea were a total one man team, at least from an attacking sense.

Won the FA Cup, Europa League and finished 3rd last season predominantly down to him. Last season under Sarri the tactic was clearly give the ball to Hazard.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Fabregas, Terry and Azpi were very good in 2014-2015.
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First half of the season yes, second half everyone collapsed bar Hazard and Courtois, pretty much any point we picked up were owed to a big performance by one if not both of them.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
Don't think he carried them to the titles in those particular seasons but in the last two seasons Chelsea were a total one man team, at least from an attacking sense.

Won the FA Cup, Europa League and finished 3rd last season predominantly down to him. Last season under Sarri the tactic was clearly give the ball to Hazard.
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Hazard was very good in 2018-2019.

I actually agree with @giorno regarding Hazard.

If you need a creator/ball carrier in attack that's severely lacking one, Hazard is your man. I'd probably only pick Messi and Neymar over him for attacking players in that role.

If your collective attacking play is great and doesn't necessarily need a singular creative force, Mane is clearly the better option.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
But this isn't true though.

Fabregas, Terry and Azpi were very good in 2014-2015.

Costa and Kante were arguably just as important as Hazard in 2016-2017.

You had players performing at a high level. It wasn't just Hazard carrying a bunch of nobodies.
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Sure, perhaps my statement was a bit OTT. That said, I don't think it's controversial in the slightest to say that Chelsea's last two league wins were the best example of a title-winning side being carried by a single player in years (certainly since Hazard arrived at Chelsea).

In 14/15, Fabregas started off like gangbusters but totally went missing - Terry was good but Azpi was a bit overrated (in his defense he was playing out of position at LB). It's incontrovertible that Hazard got us over the line with his performances down the stretch.

In 16/17, Costa was among the best players in the league for the first half, but had his head turned by a prospective move to China and started sulking. He was genuinely awful for the second half of the year and again it was Hazard who got us over the line. Kante was good though, but obviously not an attacking player.
 
TsuWave said:
Don’t you guys have enough exciting attacking options now? He seems a spent power
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Well, if we sign Havertz that's potentially a different story.

Also I don't think he's spent; Hazard seems to be the type that struggles with injuries when they occur. His 15/16 season was lost due to a flukey hip injury that was mismanaged; this year the same but with his ankle. He clearly struggles to stay in tip top condition whilst on the sideline and I think this is a big part of why injuries affect him to a greater extent than others.

Again though, he's one of the greatest players in our history. Having other exciting attacking options would only make him more enticing to me to be honest; as I posted above Hazard was held back by mediocre attacking teammates for his entire spell here.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
When have you ever been singularly scared of facing Mane as a United fan the way you would be when facing peak Hazard? Herrera had to mark him like Claudio Gentile to stop him in one game. Several other games he destroyed us too, like the FA Cup final and several big Premier League games. Did the same to Arsenal, City, Liverpool. Let's not pretend he went missing in big games. Chelsea have been a bit all over the place this decade, between managers and styles. They were probably never a top 5 team in Europe for his entire Chelsea career. And maybe the only time they were, they weren't in the Champions League to capitalise on that form (Conte's first year).



But he was voted the second best player in the biggest tournament in the world, the World Cup! That wasn't Chelsea adulation. He is 3-time reigning Belgium player of the year, I'm sure he'll lose it this time to De Bruyne and has been very good internationally as well.
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The WC at most is just 7 games and his performance in particular was overrated(very good in the group games not so much in the knock outs) when it came to crunch time just like 2014 it was De Bruyne who stepped up to put Belgium to the next round not Hazard.

De bruyne has the record for putting Belgium in their first World Cup semis just like he does for putting City in their first champions league semis with individual goals. That's pedigree. If he's a truly great player he would have had an iconic champions league performance by now he has none, he's 30 years old.
 
Pablo18th said:
The WC at most is just 7 games and his performance in particular was overrated(very good in the group games not so much in the knock outs) when it came to crunch time just like 2014 it was De Bruyne who stepped up to put Belgium to the next round not Hazard.

De bruyne has the record for putting Belgium in their first World Cup semis just like he does for putting City in their first champions league semis with individual goals. That's pedigree. If he's a truly great player he would have had an iconic champions league performance by now he has none, he's 30 years old.
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He won Silver Ball so was judged Belgium's best player in the tournament. Hazard was also great against Brazil even if he didn't score the winner. Hazard was very good against France then in the following game although they lost.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
When have you ever been singularly scared of facing Mane as a United fan the way you would be when facing peak Hazard? Herrera had to mark him like Claudio Gentile to stop him in one game. Several other games he destroyed us too, like the FA Cup final and several big Premier League games. Did the same to Arsenal, City, Liverpool. Let's not pretend he went missing in big games. Chelsea have been a bit all over the place this decade, between managers and styles. They were probably never a top 5 team in Europe for his entire Chelsea career. And maybe the only time they were, they weren't in the Champions League to capitalise on that form (Conte's first year).



But he was voted the second best player in the biggest tournament in the world, the World Cup! That wasn't Chelsea adulation. He is 3-time reigning Belgium player of the year, I'm sure he'll lose it this time to De Bruyne and has been very good internationally as well.
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You didn't answer the question. Mane is a much more devastating player with regards to goals and assist which win you games
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
Won the FA Cup, Europa League and finished 3rd last season predominantly down to him. Last season under Sarri the tactic was clearly give the ball to Hazard.
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Surely you aint suggesting Chelsea won the EL due to Hazard?

He started 4 of the 15 games, only game of note he had was the final against Arsenal and that included a penalty and the 4th goal in an easy win. He was not even in top 5 best players in the EL for Chelsea, shambles he won POTT.

These individual awards are a joke from Uefa and Fifa, no idea why people use them as some indicator on performance. His WC is as overrated as Englands. Why people get so hyped for a penatly and 4th goal vs shit like Tunisia, goal in a dead runner against England and a good performance against Brazil I will never know.
 
Abe144 said:
You didn't answer the question. Mane is a much more devastating player with regards to goals and assist which win you games
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First off, that's completely wrong. Hazard gets more assists than Mane and is far more creative in general.

Mane is a fantastic player and obviously a bigger goal threat than Hazard. Saying that, it can't be ignored that he plays under a manager who gets the very best out of attackers. Mane has never had to carry an attack as he's played alongside Coutinho, Salah and Firmino.

Hazard has won two PL titles carrying the attack for the second half of the season in both. If Hazard played under Klopp and Mane played for Mourinho, Conte and Sarri this wouldn't even be a debate.

I'll also add that in the biggest league games, Hazard was arguably the most outstanding attacking player in the league over the decade.
giorno said:
Mane is a totally different player than Hazard. I think Hazard is better if he's your best player and the team goes through him, but Mane is better on a great team where they don't necessarily build around him

Hazard is a high usage player who needs to hog the ball and have the team's attacking play built around him. Mane is more adaptable and is massively more effective in a collective playstyle

Also Mane single-handedly kept the final in Kiev competitive after Salah's injury had left liverpool shell shocked. That was a monster performance, in a CL final
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Not saying you're wrong but there's nothing to really base this opinion on. When Hazard played alongside Mata and Oscar, he was excellent and was PFA young player of the year with Mata being the main playmaker. In the world cup in 2018, he still had a high usage rate but shared the ball a lot more with KDB and was excellent.

I know his first season at Madrid has been awful but I'd say it's more to do with injuries and not being a good fit for the role you've asked of him.
 
Abe144 said:
You didn't answer the question. Mane is a much more devastating player with regards to goals and assist which win you games
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Hazard has 54 assists in the Premier League vs 29 for Mane.

Hazard has had a better per match rating than Mane on WhoScored.com in every single season they've both played in the league. To take some stats from the last 3 years other than just rating on who scores the most goals:

Overall rating:
2018/19 - Hazard 7.81, Mane 7.43
2017/18 - Hazard 7.69, Mane 7.27
2016/17 - Hazard 7.81, Mane 7.51
Key passes per game:
2018/19 - Hazard 2.6, Mane 1.3
2017/18 - Hazard 2.1, Mane 1.7
2016/17 - Hazard 2.1, Mane 1.6
Successful dribbles:
2018/19 - Hazard 3.7, Mane 1.4
2017/18 - Hazard 4.9, Mane 1.9
2016/17 - Hazard 4, Mane 2.5
Times fouled:
2018/19 - Hazard 2.8, Mane 1.8
2017/18 - Hazard 2.4, Mane 1.9
2016/17 - Hazard 2.8, Mane 2

If Hazard dribbles past two players and gets fouled, then another Chelsea player puts a cross into the box and score, Hazard led to that goal but doesn't count as an assist or goal etc. There is a reason they track these things, they are important offensive contributions, it's a team game other players can also score. Hazard being valued isn't a myth or a mystery, dribbling past players pressing you can transform a team from struggling in their own half to all of a sudden being on the attack.
 
This guy is on course to be one of the biggest flops of all time. Especially based on transfer fee.
 
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