Druggie Diego Maradona was over-rated

a_devil_inside said:
I said earlier he was one of the best players, I just don't respect him

and Spoony I was referring to drugs you wouldn't find in a shop, plus I hardly do drink, very rarely
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Okay, my mistake

I also apologise for confusing you with Redeus...
 
Spoony said:
The Italians kicked the shit out of him. Still couldn't stop him.
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Some of those who literally Man Marked him would have been sent off 10 times over if that were possible for the fouls Maradona endured...

Hell..the more I think about it the more amazed I am at what I witnesed in my own time...there is only one other player I would consider who equaled his skill...George Best. In fact Maradona when he visited England for the first time was said to have wanted to meet.....George Best.
 
I can only speak from what I've seen... but Pele was fouled almost as much as Maradona was. I've never seen Pele or Cruyff play live, but Pele definitely got hacked down many times over, in the old videos I used to watch.
 
Spoony said:
And please don't compare Trevor Francis, who was a good player to Maradona. That Forest side was very good, by the way. Napoli was wank bar Maradona, and probably Careca later on.
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I was using your argument that the lynchpin of an unfashionable side to win the Italian League was a reason why considered him the best player ever, to point out that Forest, who were an even less fancied side won the European title twice - therefore must have had a far better player than Maradona. No, I don't think Francis, or any other Forest player, was more skillful than the little fat cheat. All I said was that skill isn't everythin that makes a great footballer. Beckenbauer was a greater footballer than Maradona because he didn't need to cheat, but was not as skillful.
Spoony said:
As for diving. He never.
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He did, all the time.
Spoony said:
Was very fair on the pitch,
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Absolutely NOT!!! Read my above posts!
Spoony said:
bar the hand of god. Get over it lads. ;)
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That's not the problem, it's that people who claim a compulsive cheat can be considered as one of the greatest, even THE Greatest, footballers in the world - who can totally blinker out his bully-boy and cheating tactics, just because he was skillful.
Spoony said:
Simply the best ever ever.
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No way, Jose.
 
Red Dreams said:
Some of those who literally Man Marked him would have been sent off 10 times over if that were possible for the fouls Maradona endured...

Hell..the more I think about it the more amazed I am at what I witnesed in my own time...there is only one other player I would consider who equaled his skill...George Best. In fact Maradona when he visited England for the first time was said to have wanted to meet.....George Best.
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Yes...yes yes. He was fouled every two to three minutes in Italy. Crazy statistic. No player has ever endured the treatment he got.

As for the drug abuse, he started to hang around with wrong crowd in Naples(Mafia). I can recall watching a programme on him, mainly about his demise. I ask myself sometimes, just how much more better could he have been if he was clean? I ask the same question about Robbo, Gazza and even Bestie, who may not have taken cocaine but they were alcholics.....which is also a drug.

I've got videos of Pele, Cruff......but Maradona was on a different planet. Platini said, what Zidane can do with the ball, Maradona could do with a golf ball......and of course he's probably right. Winning the SerieA and World Cups on your own must go down as the greatest sporting achievments ever, alongside, Ali's greatest fights.

You'll find some of folk in England still haven't forgiven him(re deus, is just but one).....but he's not the first player to bend the rules, in a moment of madness....... nor will he be the last. As for getting Argentina back..... owen's dived a couple of times against them, claiming pennos. Pot kettle black, methinks.
 
spinoza said:
I can only speak from what I've seen... but Pele was fouled almost as much as Maradona was. I've never seen Pele or Cruyff play live, but Pele definitely got hacked down many times over, in the old videos I used to watch.
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Not as much as Maradona, Spin. They actually worked that one out.
 
giggzy said:
You'll find some of folk in England still haven't forgiven him(re deus, is just but one).....but he's not the first player to bend the rules, in a moment of madness....... nor will he be the last. As for getting Argentina back..... owen's dived a couple of times against them, claiming pennos. Pot kettle black, methinks.
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"Bend the Rules"? :eek: That's like saying Norman Hunter was just slightly rough.

"A moment of madness" A moment?? Read my above posts - there was more than a (single) moment. Madness?? No way - thoroughly planned and practised.

Owen's diving? - Yes you're right - he's also a cheating little tart who doesn't deserve being called the "Greatest Footballer in the World". Or even "Greatest English Liverpool striker of less than 5 feet 2 in height". Or anything else with "Great" in it.
 
green demon said:
"A moment of madness" A moment?? Read my above posts - there was more than a (single) moment. Madness?? No way - thoroughly planned and practised.

.
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Yes, I can just imagine him planning the handball in 1986 a week before the match..... together with Valdano and Passerella.

Watched him through out his career, and on the whole, he was a decent sportsman. And as has been mentioned by Red Dreams, he had lumps kicked out of him, yet got up and kept plugging away every time he was hacked down(every two mins!). Didn't make a big deal at all.

However, it was a privilegeto watch him at his peak, it really was. I've got videos of all the greats......but he was something special.

What a player.
 
Originally Posted by Redeus
I think this is largely because the white majority of Europeans can’t accept the fact a black man was better than any whitey that played the game.
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What a feckin tosser, i cannot believe you played the race card to 'prove' a point.

Oh, and Cocaine definitely would NOT have enhanced his performance.

Redeus, you really are an idiot.
 
spinoza said:
:lol:

Maradona was way above the others in terms of technique and skill - and drugs don't give you that.

Pasarella was a good player in 1978, but in 1986 his powers were waning... old age, happens to everyone.

One goal line clearance doesn't make whoever it was a great player... in fact he was so anonymous that all I remember is that his name starts with O. I'm quite sure it wasn't Valdano.

Burruchaga had one good match in 86, which happened to be the final. In fact he scored a grand total of one goal.
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Do you hear that, Spin? It's the sound of the point zooming over your little head. I believe it goes something like "whoooosh!"
I never claimed anyone in that squad were fatboy's equal. I just said that without them Maradona would not have won the World Cup. Without that 'anonymous' player clearing Lineker's goal-bound header your hero Diego would've been on the short trip back to his shanty town in Buenos Ares.
 
Spoony said:
Utter crap and very bitter.

The banned substance he used, could only be have used for losing weight. He was over weight and out of condition prior to the 94 world cup. Shane Warne was banned over the same substance.

Don't stop me though, nazi-boy.
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What part of the term 'drugs cheat' don't you understand? He was using a banned substance and I have no doubt he'd used various performance-enhancing drugs to boost his strength, speed and stamina. I mean, is it really so hard to believe? Look at him now!
 
spinoza said:
:lol: Oh god I just re-read this bit and realised...

The NASL was so popular it went tits up a few years after Pele played...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Stop laughing at yourself, it's embarrassing. The point, which you've missed AGAIN, is that Pele single-handedly popularised football in America. Before him there was no football in the USA. He helped a generation of Americans to take up the sport, inspired European legends to play for American teams, and once he had gone, the sport died in that country.
Maradona could never have had such an impact. In fact, the only thing he probably helped promote was the cocaine trade in Naples and with him gone, a huge hole has been left in the demand of illegal narcotics in the city.
 
I was lucky enough to see all of the Brazil games in the 1970 world cup and I am still in awe of the performances that Pele produced, albeit in a fabulous team. Even more than his individual skills I was impressed with his sportsmanship, his unselfishness, and utter professionalism. I have only seen Maradonna on TV so I do not feel qualified to compare the two but I would love to hear the opinion of someone who has seen them both live.
 
Re_Deus said:
Valdano, Burrachega and Passerella were all very good players. I don't seem to remember Maradona being the player making the incredible goal line clearence that stopped Lineker from levelling the match. Maradona didn't even score in the final, I think it was Valdano and Burrachega who won the final for the Argies. Sure Maradona was better than them (and with all those drugs in his system, how could he not be?) but it's nonsense to say these players didn't contribute to Argentina's win.
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Idiot, whao picked out Buruchega and assisted the winning goal against the Germans? .
 
Re_Deus said:
Without that 'anonymous' player clearing Lineker's goal-bound header your hero Diego would've been on the short trip back to his shanty town in Buenos Ares.
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You won the World Cup because the referee was a Russian and your opponents were Germans thanks to some poor refereeing. As the Argie captain pointed out there was a conspiracy hatched to make England win the World Cup. Accept your world cup victory was a fluke and you dont deserve it and I will agree "Without that 'anonymous' player clearing Lineker's goal-bound header your hero Diego would've been on the short trip back to his shanty town in Buenos Ares"

I feel Maradona's goal against Belgium was much more better than he scored against England. Against Belgium there was no space to move or even time to think ... forget about the goal. Even players with extra-ordinary vision and talent could not have pulled out a stuff like that.
 
Red Dreams said:
Some of those who literally Man Marked him would have been sent off 10 times over if that were possible for the fouls Maradona endured...

Hell..the more I think about it the more amazed I am at what I witnesed in my own time...there is only one other player I would consider who equaled his skill...George Best. In fact Maradona when he visited England for the first time was said to have wanted to meet.....George Best.
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I havent watched Pele or Cruyff play live but watching them from the videos I can safely assume that they werent difficult players to stop. But the only way to stop Diego was to bring him down or break his legs. Talent wise Best and Maradona were heads and shoulders above the rest. I'd rate Maradona and Bestie as the greatest players ever followed by Cruyff, Pele, Zico, Zidane and Ronaldo in any order.
 
He was the best player I have ever seen who only really used one foot. He was so skillful with that foot tah you didn't really notice. I think Best was a better player but since he never produced at the highest level it is difficult to compare. Maradonna is in the top 5 all time greats list for sure. Scarey to think that he might have been even better without the drugs just as Best would have been much better without the booze.
 
Re_Deus said:
Do you hear that, Spin? It's the sound of the point zooming over your little head. I believe it goes something like "whoooosh!"
I never claimed anyone in that squad were fatboy's equal. I just said that without them Maradona would not have won the World Cup. Without that 'anonymous' player clearing Lineker's goal-bound header your hero Diego would've been on the short trip back to his shanty town in Buenos Ares.
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:lol:

And without Maradona that Argie team would have been on their way back to BA after losing to England... and we wouldn't get you on here posting such bollocks.

He won it for them.

They could have 11 other okay-ish players in the squad, and they still would have won it - because he was there.

Go on - name someone else in the Argie team who was very good, as opposed to, 'performed well on the day', 'past his prime', 'had one good goal line clearance', 'not a bad defender'.
 
Re_Deus said:
Stop laughing at yourself, it's embarrassing. The point, which you've missed AGAIN, is that Pele single-handedly popularised football in America. Before him there was no football in the USA. He helped a generation of Americans to take up the sport, inspired European legends to play for American teams, and once he had gone, the sport died in that country.
Maradona could never have had such an impact. In fact, the only thing he probably helped promote was the cocaine trade in Naples and with him gone, a huge hole has been left in the demand of illegal narcotics in the city.
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The 'impact' was minimal. The sport died, didn't it?

Stop digging the hole Redeus. You know as well as I do that the true impact is from the US women's world cup winning team.

Your assertion that Maradona couldn't have done it hasn't got a shred of evidence to support it. It's hypothetical - and therefore probably just bollocks.
 
vijay said:
Idiot, whao picked out Buruchega and assisted the winning goal against the Germans? .
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:lol: He didn't watch the matches you see...

And using google, the goal line clearance was not made by Valdano, it was made by some bloke called Olarticocheya or something like that.

Anyone remember him? Redeus certainly doesn't, yet claims he's in the same league as Johan Neeskens, Arie Haan, Robbie Rensenbrink, Garrincha, Jairzinho, Rivelino etc etc...
 
Wibble...was thinking it and you said it...Maradona just used his right leg to stand on...and could use his left one like most people could use their hands....
and you are right Best just did not have the oportunity to show his ability at the higest level...but I would say Best was the closest I have seen to Maradona...
Even our incredible Ronaldo pales in comparison to those two..

and Vijay... I agree..the goal against Belgium...Was better...I have seen that goal so many times.....in my mind...I will not need a video of it...when I think of it...it still amazes me that anyone can score a goal like that.

just to put things into perspective...the Argentinian side of 1978 was better than the 1986 one ...but we will remember only the 1986 one for one reason...Deigo Armando Maradona!
 
Re_Deus said:
No they don't. He was very skillful and a great dribbler, passer and shooter of the ball. His natural gifts are unquestionable, it's his UNnatural ones that taint him. He was a regular user of drugs, he was banned from the World Cup because he was found using a performance enhancing stimulant. And since tests for steroid abuse were less common in those days, Diego got away with it all the time. Until he found himself in America where they take drug-testing very seriously, especially in the wake of the Ben Johnson affair. His speed, strength and endurance were all enhanced through a variety of drugs, and therefore he could never be considered the best.
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L can remember a Brazil vs Argentina friendly before the 1994 WC when an inform Brazilian team that had Romario, Bebeto, Rai and co made the Argies to look like flat footed veterans and thrashed them 2-0 and Columbia humiliated them 5-0 in WCQ. The transform Maradona brought in the two matches against Greece and Nigeria was unbelievable. The stunning strike against Greece and couple of assists against Nigeria, when he picked out Caniggia out of no where was simply amazing. At the point in his career he had completely lost his pace(he should've been pacy if he had used stimulants (i.e) if we go by your foolish argument) but still ran the show with some impressive tricks and amazing passes. Suddenly Argies looked better than Brazil and Holland. Just after he was kicked out the so called World class Argies were bundled out by both Bulgaria and Romania.

Ben Johnson’s case was completely different. He packed his upper body with performance enhancing steroids that gave him incredible acceleration to power past his rivals and it gave neurological benefits, like improving his reaction time. His reaction time at the Seoul Olympics was a less than 0.104 of a second - lesser than current 100 meter World Record holder- impracticable for any human being. I don’t know how it can help footballers or cricketers or in Rugby and moreover Maradona was a cocaine addict(previously he served a 15 month ban for using cocaine) - not a steroid user. Maradona was banned from 1994 world cup for using ephedrine - its not a stimulant as such but helps to maintain respiration levels in the case of acute cold, and asthma. Note the drugs tests during 1994 WC was conducted in a Random manner and Maradona himself volunteered for the tests when three or four players from each squad were asked to provide samples. Even after the tests failed Diego admitted he took the tablets for cold and he was unaware about ephedrine. He was a cocaine user and so it affected him cerebrally and physically overall had a negative effect in his footballing career. I don't think an athlete can gain anything by using them often-except a premature end to his/her career


Redeus, either you are an illiterate or you think the other forumites are illiterates…so you are feeling free to spout your drivel hoping someone might entertain you..
 
Re_Deus said:
Stop laughing at yourself, it's embarrassing. The point, which you've missed AGAIN, is that Pele single-handedly popularised football in America. Before him there was no football in the USA. He helped a generation of Americans to take up the sport, inspired European legends to play for American teams, and once he had gone, the sport died in that country.
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:lol:

And Jeffchin will become the greatest footballer ever because he is trying singlehandedly to promote the sport in Taiwan. Before Jeffchin visited Taiwan,there was no football in Taiwan. Now he is helping a new generation of Taiwanese to take up the sport and if he goes the sport will die in that country.
 
Spoony said:
He never took steroids. He took cocaine, if anything it should've hindered his ability.
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Well done Spoony.

Finally someone who spots the big error...

Don't really agree on the part that Zidane wouldn't be fit to tie the laces of his boots though. Maradonna was the better player, but Zidane is more consistent, has delivered the business for years and has also been a real role-model for youngsters: best player in his generation, but still works as hard as anyone else on the pitch.
 
The Red Machine said:
Well done Spoony.

Finally someone who spots the big error...

Don't really agree on the part that Zidane wouldn't be fit to tie the laces of his boots though. Maradonna was the better player, but Zidane is more consistent, has delivered the business for years and has also been a real role-model for youngsters: best player in his generation, but still works as hard as anyone else on the pitch.
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Well, you never know for sure. Just because he never tested positive doesn't mean he didn't take them.

Nothing he could have taken could have given him all that talent though.
 
Maradona

Pele, Best and Maradona were the best ever...........all fantastic players IMO Best would have been considered the greatest if he had played for a good international side saw him play against Scotland (who were a good side ) NI won 1-0 and the game consisted of George against the Scots and George won.
 
spinoza said:
Well, you never know for sure. Just because he never tested positive doesn't mean he didn't take them.

Nothing he could have taken could have given him all that talent though.
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Same can be said for any player, Spin.

Fact is, like Bestie, Gazza.....et al, he had a drug habit. In his case it was worse, as the drug was cocaine and not alcohol. I reckon he could've lasted longer, and perhaps been even better(now that's really hard to imagine....) had he been the 'model pro' off the field.

I doubt we'll ever see a player of his abilty again.


Re Deus, looks a tit again shocker...........
 
Spoony said:
Only the little Englanders, who haven't got over 86, care. Sad thing is that a footballing nation as big as England is still bothered about a world cup that happened nearly 20 years ago.
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Couldn't agree more - I'm not an Englander so couldn't give a feck about his hand ball - he was fecking unbelieveable - have you seen the clip of him juggling a tennis ball feckin unreal.

As for the original assertion of the thread starter all I can say is :lol: :lol: :wenger: :wenger: :wenger: :wenger: :lol: :lol:
 
green demon said:
"Bend the Rules"? :eek: That's like saying Norman Hunter was just slightly rough.

"A moment of madness" A moment?? Read my above posts - there was more than a (single) moment. Madness?? No way - thoroughly planned and practised.

Owen's diving? - Yes you're right - he's also a cheating little tart who doesn't deserve being called the "Greatest Footballer in the World". Or even "Greatest English Liverpool striker of less than 5 feet 2 in height". Or anything else with "Great" in it.
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Grow up Demon - almost all players cheat regularly in different ways - shirt pulling and diving being as common place in the UK now as they have been in Europe for some time - are you going to try and tell me that Ruud and Cristiano haven't occosionally fallen down as though shot on minimal contact ?

It happens accept it or follow another sport
 
giggzy said:
Yes, I can just imagine him planning the handball in 1986 a week before the match..... together with Valdano and Passerella.
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Class giggzy, class .

You have spoken much sense in this thread. I'm not saying I'd vote for him as best human being of all time - but must skillful footballer oh hes in the top 5 or maybe top 1 for sure
 
ruuds left boot said:
wot no Platini ?
:eek: :eek:


My all time fave player Platini (not saying he was better than those three just my fave) surely he's in that category
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Platini was class. I've actually seen him play live ;) Personally, I'd have Zidane above him. Both great players. I think the difference is Zidane's more eye candy, ie has more silky skill. Platini on the other hand was more driven.... ie got onto the end of things.... more general like, I suppose.

Zico's another player who gets left out, often. For me, he was second only to Maradona in the 80's. Another fantastic player.
 
vijay said:
I havent watched Pele or Cruyff play live but watching them from the videos I can safely assume that they werent difficult players to stop.
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Stick to cricket mate, you might have more of a clue about that sport than you do about football.
 
spinoza said:
:lol: He didn't watch the matches you see...

And using google, the goal line clearance was not made by Valdano, it was made by some bloke called Olarticocheya or something like that.

Anyone remember him? Redeus certainly doesn't, yet claims he's in the same league as Johan Neeskens, Arie Haan, Robbie Rensenbrink, Garrincha, Jairzinho, Rivelino etc etc...
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Spin, this is the umpteenth time you've either misread or failed to understand what I've said in this thread. Firstly, where the hell did I say it was Valdano that cleared that header? Anywhere? And again, I never said these players were greats of the game, but unlike you, I can at least acknowledge the part they played in winning the world cup, and not simply dismiss them and say everything was done by Maradona. Start improving your reading and comprehension skills. It can prove most useful in life.
 
vijay said:
L can remember a Brazil vs Argentina friendly before the 1994 WC when an inform Brazilian team that had Romario, Bebeto, Rai and co made the Argies to look like flat footed veterans and thrashed them 2-0 and Columbia humiliated them 5-0 in WCQ. The transform Maradona brought in the two matches against Greece and Nigeria was unbelievable. The stunning strike against Greece and couple of assists against Nigeria, when he picked out Caniggia out of no where was simply amazing. At the point in his career he had completely lost his pace(he should've been pacy if he had used stimulants (i.e) if we go by your foolish argument) but still ran the show with some impressive tricks and amazing passes. Suddenly Argies looked better than Brazil and Holland. Just after he was kicked out the so called World class Argies were bundled out by both Bulgaria and Romania.

Ben Johnson’s case was completely different. He packed his upper body with performance enhancing steroids that gave him incredible acceleration to power past his rivals and it gave neurological benefits, like improving his reaction time. His reaction time at the Seoul Olympics was a less than 0.104 of a second - lesser than current 100 meter World Record holder- impracticable for any human being. I don’t know how it can help footballers or cricketers or in Rugby and moreover Maradona was a cocaine addict(previously he served a 15 month ban for using cocaine) - not a steroid user. Maradona was banned from 1994 world cup for using ephedrine - its not a stimulant as such but helps to maintain respiration levels in the case of acute cold, and asthma. Note the drugs tests during 1994 WC was conducted in a Random manner and Maradona himself volunteered for the tests when three or four players from each squad were asked to provide samples. Even after the tests failed Diego admitted he took the tablets for cold and he was unaware about ephedrine. He was a cocaine user and so it affected him cerebrally and physically overall had a negative effect in his footballing career. I don't think an athlete can gain anything by using them often-except a premature end to his/her career


Redeus, either you are an illiterate or you think the other forumites are illiterates…so you are feeling free to spout your drivel hoping someone might entertain you..
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No Vijay, I'm not illiterate (what does my level of literacy have to do with what I've said anyway?), but I sure as hell know what you and a great many people here are - appeasers for drug cheats. Just like the Greeks who still worship their former 200M champ who was proven a drugs cheat. You can continue to kiss the inflated arse of that miserable little junkie, I'm greatly amused to know the heroes you look up to (or down to, in the case of that dwarf).
 
VanNistelrater said:
Re_Deus = Adrian Durham.
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Sound similar, don't they.

Both totally clueless.....

Ephedrine is a steroid indeed....( I know a lad who took it. Didn't lose any fat though, the lard arse twat....)
 
Maradona was the best I've ever seen. That world cup was fantastic. The team he was in were pretty average as Argentina goes but he did have a very young Batistuta playing up front. People are forgetting him or am I not remembering correctly? I think Batistuta actually scored a couple in the final?
 
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