DP Draft 480p Finals : Enigma_87 vs Skizzo

[Jim Beam]

My understanding from Enigma's comments is that Xavi is not playing a Jorginho style game but his normal one and so it seems more like Xavi is ahead of Davids and Neeskens rather than the other way around. I could have got this wrong but that's my best guess

From OP it seems similar to Jorginho role..

Xavi as main conductor and the attacking trio of Laudrup, Puskas and Cristiano will work into channels and interchange when on the ball.

Not much is there to say considering we all witnessed his greatness, so his role here is no different - drop back to initiate play, distribute the ball on the wings or keep it ticking and moving forming triangles when playing short along with Laudrup, Neeskens, Davids,etc.

And then from the debate it does seem unclear tbf. It is like they saw Pele at AM and decided to move Xavi away.

Not sure why. Everyone is asking who is watching Pele, but the bigger issue is who is watching Xavi as you don't want him to run rings around you. If it's Pele, that's not ideal, if you move back, playing 3-4-3 and letting other team have the ball isn't ideal either.

 

[General_Elegancia]

completely agree. Think his defensive game is good only in a high pressing team that is filled with press players, otherwise its a bit meh. Considering here you have 3 players that wont do much(lol, you got a love a draft) its a problem.

Between him and B2B version of Breitner,Neeskens is a bit better defensive(better stamina).
I compare both of them since they were in same era.

Otherwise,I completely agree that his defensive skills is a bit overrated.

 

[Jim Beam]

completely agree. Think his defensive game is good only in a high pressing team that is filled with press players, otherwise its a bit meh. Considering here you have 3 players that wont do much(lol, you got a love a draft) its a problem.

Young Laudrup and Puskas (not buffet version of Puskas) can do a solid job imo.
Ronaldo is an odd one in that sense.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Young Laudrup and Puskas (not buffet version of Puskas) can do a solid job imo.
Ronaldo is an odd one in that sense.

Is it said its a young version of Laudrup? Not sure how much of him i watched but prime version wasnt really a hard worker off the ball(funny thing is, recently watched an old version and he worked twice as much then the peak one ).
As for Puskas, thats based on nothing tbf because there is no footage of it.

 

[harms]

By the way, I never liked any of Puskás & Cristiano combinations. Just putting it out there because everyone cares!

 

[Jim Beam]

Is it said its a young version of Laudrup? Not sure how much of him i watched but prime version wasnt really a hard worker off the ball(funny thing is, recently watched an old version and he worked twice as much then the peak one ).
As for Puskas, thats based on nothing tbf because there is no footage of it.

Puskas is based on the fact that Hungary pressed.

 

[Isotope]

completely agree. Think his defensive game is good only in a high pressing team that is filled with press players, otherwise its a bit meh. Considering here you have 3 players that wont do much(lol, you got a love a draft) its a problem.

When those three are Laudrup, Puskas, and Ronaldo, it's the opponent that should worry on leaving them free.

Barca once has Laudrup, Romario, and Stoickhov that worked well. I know Stoickhov work harder, but peak Ronaldo is twice more dangerous, to compensate.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Puskas is based on the fact that Hungary pressed.

but when you are almost a pioneer in that you can easily carry players because it doesnt have to be a perfect press to cause panic as opponents are not ready for it

When those three are Laudrup, Puskas, and Ronaldo, it's the opponent that should worry on leaving them free.

sure....

 

[Jim Beam]

but when you are almost a pioneer in that you can easily carry players because it doesnt have to be a perfect press to cause panic as opponents are not ready for it

Well yeah.. It's just that he clearly has some (hard to say the extent of it) expirence in what was an aggressive team. Put that together with his overall unselfishness/willingness to be a part of a collective and am certainly willing to give him a benefit of doubt in that sense.

Ronaldo in a pressing scheme. Yeah, that won't do.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I don't think Enigma's formation and tactics suit his players.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

For me, Neeskens' defensive game is really overrated. Perhaps a Keane there and I would be pretty okay with it.

Davids is a defensive B2B and he compliments well with a offensive B2B like Neeskens well.

Having been a defender, I still rate his skills as sufficient for this role.

 

[Skizzo]

For me, Neeskens' defensive game is really overrated. Perhaps a Keane there and I would be pretty okay with it.

While the drafting was going on, I was super impressed with Enigma-Himmanv's team but then I thought they were going for a diamond.

-------Ronaldo------Puskas-------
----------------laudrup----------------
------Davids-------Neeskens----
------------------DM-------------------

i thought they were gonna have a diamond too…and from the get-go in this draft I was trying to get the perfect balance for him in his inside left forward position. Thought they were gonna go for it here too. I think it would have suited them slightly better.

 

[Gio]

Although I'd personally have plonked him off the left, I like the Cristiano partnership with Puskas. Imagine you were picking an all-time Real XI, you'd find a way to play both of them imo (probably worth a thread in itself).

Fully buy Xavi in Jorginho kind of role partnered with an aggressive b2b dynamo similiar to how Jorginho operates in Chelsea. And here Xavi has two of them. Not sure what's the issue in the defensive phase also considering Xavi was probably the most hardworking midfielder on top of his exceptional passing at his peak. I wouldn't even move him from Pele zone as him, Neeskens and Davids are fully capable of dealing with any threat. Anyway, I like that midfield, it's imaginative and can see them functioning brilliantly. Don't care if they worked in different combos in real life.

Agree with this. I like the more inventive use of Xavi here. As everyone will know his partnership with Davids (and Cocu) at Barcelona was a highly effective one. Barcelona were floundering in mid-table when Davids joined in January. Him and Xavi instantly won 12 out of the next 14 league games and they ended the season in 2nd place. I think Davids has that rare combination of tiger-ish midfield attributes but with the technical Ajax grounding which means he can play in just about any midfield and enhance it.

Is it said its a young version of Laudrup? Not sure how much of him i watched but prime version wasnt really a hard worker off the ball(funny thing is, recently watched an old version and he worked twice as much then the peak one ).
As for Puskas, thats based on nothing tbf because there is no footage of it.

Aye, for Denmark in 1998 he was part of a midfield four in a 4-4-2 and looked pretty reliable off the ball, despite his advancing years.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Congrats @Skizzo @Gio

Great run out as usual @Enigma_87 @Himannv

 

[Himannv]

Well, I for one, am truely gutted by this result and disappointed in those who didn't vote for us. Shame on you all for not believing that Xavi would dominate this thing as the midfield playmaker with the perfect support around him. Shame!

You're all cnuts and your friends and family members should be notified of this disgrace so that you can be rightly ridiculed from now until the end of time. cnuts!

 

[Enigma_87]

Congrats @Skizzo @Gio

Great run out as usual @Enigma_87 @Himannv

Cheers, mate.

Well done, @Skizzo solid team building as usual and impressive team once again.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Well, I for one, am truely gutted by this result and disappointed in those who didn't vote for us. Shame on you all for not believing that Xavi would dominate this thing as the midfield playmaker with the perfect support around him. Shame!

Irrespective of the result and my personal views, glad you guys went for this setup. The debate wouldn't have been half as good otherwise.

 

[Isotope]

Congrats, Skizzo and his AM for the win.

In my heart, you're still the winner Enigma/Himan my man.

You guys have two fecking great teams. 480p vs 720p, who's gonna win?? hmm..Super Cup anyone?

 

[General_Elegancia]

I will show some interesting Xavi's stats during UCL 2010

.

MATCHDAY 1: (A) vs Inter


Passes (Completed/Total)

Xavi: 81/97 (84%)
Eric Abidal: 59/75 (79%)
Seydou Keita: 69/68 (87%)
Toure Yaya: 57/65 (88%)
Inter’s best - Wesley Sneijder: 24/43 (56%)

Distance Covered

Xavi: 10.82 km
Dani Alves: 10.22 km
Seydou Keita: 9.9 km
Toure Yaya: 9.23 km
Inter’s best – Thiago Motta: 10.26 km

MATCHDAY 2: (H) vs Dynamo Kiev


Passes

Xavi: 83/103 (81%)
Dani Alves: 71/92 (77%)
Carles Puyol: 66/72 (92%)
Seydou Keita: 61/70 (87%)
Dynamo’s best – Artem Milevskiy: 17/32 (53%)

Distance Covered

Dani Alves: 11.59 km
Seydou Keita: 10.72 km
Eric Abidal: 10.49 km
Xavi: 9.31 km
Dynamo’s best – Artem Milevskiy: 11.18 km

MATCHDAY 3: (H) vs Rubin Kazan



Passes

Xavi: 88/98 (90%)
Eric Abidal: 88/98 (90%)
Andres Iniesta: 82/94 (87%)
Gerard Pique: 69/80 (86%)
Rubin’s best – Alejandro Dominguez: 24/39 (62%)

Distance Covered

Xavi: 12.07 km
Dani Alves: 11.33 km
Eric Abidal: 10.9 km
Gerard Pique: 10.82 km
Rubin’s best – Alejandro Dominguez: 11.08 km

MATCHDAY 4: (A) vs Rubin Kazan


Passes

Xavi: 92/107 (86%)
Dani Alves: 77/101 (76%)
Eric Abidal: 77/86 (90%)
Andres Iniesta: 58/80 (73%)
Rubin’s best – Cristian Ansaldi: 21/39 (54%)

Distance Covered

Xavi: 12.2 km
Dani Alves: 11.16 km
Eric Abidal: 11.16 km
Andres Iniesta: 11.05 km
Rubin’s best – Sergei Semak: 12.73km

MATCHDAY 5: (H) vs Inter


Passes

Xavi: 80/95 (84%)
Andres Iniesta: 67/87 (77%)
Eric Abidal: 66/79 (84%)
Sergio Busquets: 64/76 (84%)
Inter’s best – Maicon: 46/67 (69%)

Distance Covered

Xavi: 11.07 km
Dani Alves: 10.71 km
Andres Iniesta: 10.53 km
Sergio Busquets: 10.28 km
Seydou Keita: 9.73 km
Inter’s best – Thiago Motta: 10.32 km


MATCHDAY 6: (A) vs Dynamo Kiev


Passes

Sergio Busquets: 71/80 (89%)
Seydou Keita: 65/77 (84%)
Lionel Messi: 64/77 (83%)
Xavi: 57/70 (81%)
Dynamo’s best – Andriy Yarmolenko: 7/26 (27%)

Distance Covered

Dani Alves: 10.47 km
Seydou Keita: 10.36 km
Xavi: 10.2 km
Eric Abidal: 9.75 km
Dynamo’s best – Ognjen Vukojevic: 10.37 km

LAST 16: (A) vs VfB Stuttgart


Passes

Xavi: 81/94 (86%)
Gerard Pique: 78/94 (83%)
Sergio Busquets: 74/80 (93%)
Andres Iniesta: 61/74 (82%)
Stuttgart’s best – Cristian Molinaro: 31/46 (67%)

Distance Covered

Xavi: 12.22 km
Andres Iniesta: 11.33 km
Sergio Busquets: 11.03 km
Carles Puyol: 10.57 km
Stuttgart’s best – Sami Khedira: 12.35 km

QUARTER-FINALS: (A) vs Arsenal


Passes

Xavi: 92/112 (85%)
Dani Alves: 73/97 (75%)
Sergio Busquets: 77/87 (89%)
Gerard Pique: 70/79 (89%)
Arsenal’s best – Cesc Fabregas: 31/39 (79%)

Distance Covered

Xavi: 12.36 km
Dani Alves: 11.69 km
Sergio Busquets: 11.66 km
Pedro: 11.47 km
Arsenal’s best – Cesc Fabregas: 12.25 km


QUARTER-FINALS: (H) vs Arsenal


Passes

Xavi: 95/105 (90%)
Gaby Milito: 61/72 (85%)
Dani Alves: 53/64 (83%)
Rafa Marquez: 64/71 (90%)
Arsenal’s best – Bacary Sagna: 46/58 (79%)

Distance Covered

Xavi: 12.56 km
Dani Alves: 11.76 km
Sergio Busquets: 11.72 km
Seydou Keita: 10.73 km
Arsenal’s best – Denilson: 12.26 km

Amazing stats from Xavi,very impressive performances from this little man from Barcelona.
Tiki-Taka can't be succesfully as much as they have,if the players especially their midfielders only have great-ball playing skills(like ball retention and passing) but have poor or medicore workrates.
Xavi is the perfect player for this system,he has it all passing,great ball retention and the most underrated part of his game workrates and stamina.

In UCL 2010,Xavi Hernandez ran most kilometers compared to his team players combined with opponent team players 5 times.That's crazy.

Xavi also covered 80.20 kilometres throughout the competitions, averaging approximately 11.5 kilometres per game,[73] more than any other player.[74] In the final, he covered a distance of almost 15 kilometres.

This stats was during WC2010.

Well, I for one, am truely gutted by this result and disappointed in those who didn't vote for us. Shame on you all for not believing that Xavi would dominate this thing as the midfield playmaker with the perfect support around him. Shame!




You're all cnuts and your friends and family members should be notified of this disgrace so that you can be rightly ridiculed from now until the end of time. cnuts!

To be honest imho I think your side will possesion the ball more than skizzo side for sure ,all of your midfielders have tremendous workrates and stamina to do it.Another reason don't forget that your side play in 4-3-3 which can control the tempo and possesion better than any formation in this planet .Neeskens and Xavi played their best at 4-3-3(in Ajax and Barcelona).When your team loss possesions your midfielders will run like mad-dogs and will chase down or fight for the ball back for sure.

The point is your team need a bit of dm to help your midfielders to contain Pele or make them shine brightest .
FC Barcelona during Xavi's era had Busquests to did a lot of defensive jobs(even Xavi ran most for a lot of matches).
Davids and Neeskens also had dm behind them too(as I mentioned before).

Other historic midfielder lines also had defensive midfielder too.
French 1982-1986 had Tigana as box to box and Fernandez as dm.
Brazil 1982 had Toninho Cerezo to be bodyguard of Zico,Socrates and Falcao.
Madrid 2016- present have Casemiro.



Guardiola's biggest mistake in this matches was not sending defensive midfielder to the field.

Matthaus said

"How can you play without a defensive midfielder in the most important game in club history, who was on the pitch in almost every game of the season, who ensures the balance, who gives everyone involved the necessary security?

"Why did he leave Rodri and/or Fernandinho out, start six attacking players and also play without a centre-forward?"

Compare with your team it's look different because you have Davids as defesive b2b.

 

[General_Elegancia]

Congratulations to both you @Skizzo @Gio
Great run @Enigma_87 @Himannv

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Great post @General_Elegancia, I can even say easily the best post of the draft

 

[Skizzo]

Cheers, mate.

Well done, @Skizzo solid team building as usual and impressive team once again.

Good game mate. Cheers. You and @Himannv

thanks for running things @GodShaveTheQueen

 

[Himannv]

Is it said its a young version of Laudrup? Not sure how much of him i watched but prime version wasnt really a hard worker off the ball(funny thing is, recently watched an old version and he worked twice as much then the peak one ).

We've probably watched different versions of him or something. In the games I watched he wasn't really a passenger or anything off the ball. I mean, he's not exactly Tevez but he does close down the opposition player and try to win the ball back. The way you say it, it sounds like he's a complete passenger or something - he's not.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

We've probably watched different versions of him or something. In the games I watched he wasn't really a passenger or anything off the ball. I mean, he's not exactly Tevez but he does close down the opposition player and try to win the ball back. The way you say it, it sounds like he's a complete passenger or something - he's not.

he wasnt a passenger but he wasnt really a hard worker either. To put it in tiers id probably place him there:

God - Kante
Insane workrate - Villa, Elkjaer, Rooney, Robson, Davids
Hardworking - Platini, Tostao, Van Hanegem, Schuster,
Adequate - Rivelino, D.Silva, Robben,
Contributes but meh - Laudrup, Savicevic, Pirlo
Lazy gits - Messi(RW), Cristiano(Madrid, Juve), Romario, Riquelme

A lot of gray areas between tiers and some did up their game from time to time but overall this is my impression of watching them.

 

[harms]

Even young Laudrup very often drifted out of the game, not contributing much before producing a brilliant run/goal/assist. Having Elkjær and Lerby running around like Duracel bunnies kinda helped to masked that out. Peak version was also hardly anything special in term of work-rate. Borderline decent would be a good estimation, I guess. When you add Cristiano to that...

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

Other than quite a few of games i've seen for the national team, where he often seemed more energised, i don't think laudrup worked any harder off the ball most of the time at club level than someone like Hagi did by mid-90s, savicevic is a good comparison too. imo it's a significant reason why he struggled so much when he had to step up and replace Platini, and likely also why Juventus would still bring in another attacking creator more noted for midfield workrate like zavarov despite Laudrup already being there for some years.

 

[General_Elegancia]

savicevic is a good comparison too. imo it's a significant reason why he struggled so much when he had to step up and replace Platini

Savicevic was known as having a good work ethic in Red Star Belgrade, but that work ethic was nonexistent at Milano.Savicevic was heavily criticized for his work ethic which made him a lot worse than Ruud Gullit . Savicevic work ethic was the thing that makes 1992-1993 worse than "the unbeatable season"(1991-1992).Gullit workrates was the important factors of the rise of 87-94 AC Milan.

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

Savicevic was known as having a good work ethic in Red Star Belgrade, but that work ethic was nonexistent at Milano.Savicevic was heavily criticized for his work ethic which made him a lot worse than Ruud Gullit . Savicevic work ethic was the thing that makes 1992-1993 worse than "the unbeatable season"(1991-1992).Gullit workrates was the important factors of the rise of 87-94 AC Milan.

Savicevic hardly played that season, it's harsh to blame anything on him. He seemed to be a signing where Berlusconi had ignored the managers tactical wants, Capello didn't want much to do with him at the time and i'd say that season wasn't as good as the last because of the Dutch trio's injuries and subsequent decline. Papin also not as good as expected. It was only later that savicevic even managed to play himself into the team somewhat.

No doubt savicevic had his workrate (and consistent injury) issues, but i also had never thought Capello had clear idea how to use him in those first seasons, shoehorning him clumsily into a forward position often. his conception of the creative player and how a midfield functioned was rigid even by conservative italian standards, and players like Boban and Savicevic that didn't easily fit into that trequartista/support foward role that the likes of Baggio, Zola, Totti exemplified suffered. The idea of a free role for a between the lines player that wasn't simply dropping back out of the front two, or having an additional supporting central playmaker as consistent starter probably offended him at the time.

Incidentally you can argue Laudrup suffered from the same kind of thing in his time in Italian football too, compared to Cruyff's more sophisticated use that got the best from him, but he at least seemed more comfortable as part of a forward duo than savicevic.