Donny Van De Beek | he stays!

[Gordon S]

I’m struggling to believe that players like JWP who had been relegated can get a move but players who have played in the CL like VDB can’t…

JWP is miles better and has some of the best set piece delivery in the world

 

[huyn]

So will VDB do a Maguire or not would be the question.

Unlike Maguire who they wanted to only sell and not loan, Man Utd might have accepted to keep paying a significant part of his salary, or he can agree to lower his salary, but Lorient really can't pay him his current wages, only 4 or 5 clubs in Ligue 1 can.

 

[sugar_kane]

Ten Hag trying to sign everyone who's ever shared oxygen with him and meanwhile Donny who played about 100 games for him can't get a look in... poor lad!

 

[MUFC OK]

If they cant afford to buy him they can give us Enzo for le fee

 

[gaffs]

I’m struggling to believe that players like JWP who had been relegated can get a move but players who have played in the CL like VDB can’t…

Come on man. JWP is a solid performer, every week.

Donny has hardly played for United and when he does, he doesn't show much.

 

[Rapsel]

Ten Hag trying to sign everyone who's ever shared oxygen with him and meanwhile Donny who played about 100 games for him can't get a look in... poor lad!

Or maybe the way ETH operates is different than what supporters think to see from the surface.

 

[JJ12]

I’m struggling to believe that players like JWP who had been relegated can get a move but players who have played in the CL like VDB can’t…

You’d struggle less if you watched both play in the prem

 

[DevilRed]

The invisible man.

I hope he leaves. But I wouldn't be surprised if he stayed and just collected the paycheck. Much like Harry.

 

[Bubz27]

Hope he goes on loan, needs to rediscover himself. A small club is probably ideal.

We tried Everton, didn't work.

 

[Bestie07]

He always was a puzzling signing. He was a cog in the Ajax system but never really stood out in a way that de Ligt or de Jong did, and he played in this #10 sort of a role for which we had Bruno who played every game. A symbol of our baffling recruitment practices over the last decade.

 

[Ali Dia]

He always was a puzzling signing. He was a cog in the Ajax system but never really stood out in a way that de Ligt or de Jong did, and he played in this #10 sort of a role for which we had Bruno who played every game. A symbol of our baffling recruitment practices over the last decade.

I always assumed he was Bruno’s backup. once we’d committed to playing with a 8/10 if anything happened to Bruno Oles system falls apart? Anyway very bad signing in hindsight. Hopefully he goes and gets his career back on track somewhere else.

 

[lex talionis]

He played over 60 matches for United. The whole 'not been given a chance' narrative is ridiculous when it comes to VDB. Had his chance, not good enough, needs to move elsewhere ASAP to save his career.

Do you include all the stoppage time substitutions as chances?

 

[dinostar77]

We tried Everton, didn't work.

Hopefully he will be guaranteed playtime at Lorentz, in his preferred position.

 

[Lay]

Donny Van Schneiderlin

 

[Crayon]

I think Donny is just too lightweight for the Premier League. It's a bit cliched to say, I know. However given his time here, nothing I have seen has shown he's truly capable at this level.

Gutted that the transfer didn't work out, but he needs to rebuild his career elsewhere. Preferably with a sale, but given how bad United are at moving players on I will take a loan deal with a view to a permanent transfer.

There's a very technically capable footballer in DvB, however the permanence and brilliance of Bruno just means it was never likely that he'd get a fair crack in the team.

 

[IRN-BRUno]

A sale was always unlikely this season, nobody is going to pay a decent amount for someone who's started 11 league games in the previous 3 seasons and his wages would also be an issue.

This would be a decent move for him with the opportunity to play regularly again in a good league. Given Lorient's links with Bournemouth he could even earn himself a move there next summer if he impresses.

 

[Adnan]

FC Lorient to the rescue apparently.

https://frenchfootballweekly.com/2023/08/30/lorient-tries-the-big-shot-donny-van-de-beek/

Seems like he's going on loan.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

We definitely need to sign a midfielder now.

 

[Gandalf]

Seems like he's going on loan.

No agreement on player side yet though. Has been mentioned that he earns triple what their highest earner makes so either we are going to have to subsidize his wages significantly or he is going to have to accept a big pay cut.

 

[Red Royal]

We definitely need to sign a midfielder now.

Don't think it makes much difference at all apart from the early Carabou cup rounds (I do agree we need one, but more cos we sold Fred).

 

[Adnan]

No agreement on player side yet though. Has been mentioned that he earns triple what their highest earner makes so either we are going to have to subsidize his wages significantly or he is going to have to accept a big pay cut.

That's the problem. It now depends on Donny if he wants to take up a offer from Lorient who will provide him with potential first team minutes in a good league.

RMC have also reported about United and Lorient agreeing on a loan.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Don't think it makes much difference at all apart from the early Carabou cup rounds (I do agree we need one, but more cos we sold Fred).

We need numbers as much as anything else, we’ve currently only got 4 midfielders fit and we play with 3 of them at a time.

 

[Alvaro Maestre]

He should just go back to Ajax.

 

[Gandalf]

He should just go back to Ajax.

They don't want him.

 

[Adnan]

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

If he has several offers from better clubs then why aren’t we hearing about them?

 

[Adnan]

If he has several offers from better clubs then why aren’t we hearing about them?

Genoa is another club who want him according to Romano.

 

[kouroux]

Or maybe the way ETH operates is different than what supporters think to see from the surface.

Delete the "maybe" and you'd be spot on

 

[tomaldinho1]

He played over 60 matches for United. The whole 'not been given a chance' narrative is ridiculous when it comes to VDB. Had his chance, not good enough, needs to move elsewhere ASAP to save his career.

Now how many starts? He has had the strangest United career, became a meme for being brought on with about 3 mins to go by Ole.

 

[Ikon]

Now how many starts? He has had the strangest United career, became a meme for being brought on with about 3 mins to go by Ole.

I think he was treated terribly by Ole, and the player has never recovered from it.

 

[Putting all banter aside]

Now how many starts? He has had the strangest United career, became a meme for being brought on with about 3 mins to go by Ole.

He played around 2200 minutes in 60 games, rougly 37 minutes per game. Obviously those weren't all starters but not exactly the classic 88th minute subsitution either. Showing this little in over two thousand minutes should be reason to sod off at any club.

 

[tomaldinho1]

He played around 2200 minutes in 60 games, rougly 37 minutes per game. Obviously those weren't all starters but not exactly the classic 88th minute subsitution either. Showing this little in over two thousand minutes should be reason to sod off at any club.

Wait, you are seriously making a case that you can divide his minutes but his games and provide an accurate representation of being given an opportunity. Regardless of what you think of VdB, I thought i had seen every bad take on the caf but here's a new one:

Player A plays 90mins, 90mins, 10min, 10min, 10min, 10min, 10min, 10min, 10min, 10min across a series of 10 games.

Now 10 games is a decent amount to look for trends and he's played in all of them. So with your forumla he's played 260mins across 10 games which equals 26 minutes a game and plenty of time to see what he's about?

 

[Vidyoyo]

I think he was treated terribly by Ole, and the player has never recovered from it.

Same thing happened to us in fairness.

 

[MadDogg]

I think he was treated terribly by Ole, and the player has never recovered from it.

A player isn't just given minutes without earning them. When taking his match performances for us and the fact that he was never trusted with a decent run in the side into account, it's almost certain that he was as just ineffective and unimpressive in training.

There was only one period in his time here where I do think he was treated a bit harshly, and that was at the beginning of his second season. The end of 19/20 and beginning of 20/21 was the only time where he showed some actual decent performances (even then there were also some bad performances mixed in). Those better performances were mostly in a deeper position albeit against weaker opposition, but combined with the fact all our other midfielders were playing terribly at the start of 20/21 I do think he should have been given a bit more of a chance at that point.

Otherwise, he's never looked even close to deserving a spot.

 

[Red_toad]

If he has several offers from better clubs then why aren’t we hearing about them?

None of us are his agent probably….

 

[Putting all banter aside]

Wait, you are seriously making a case that you can divide his minutes but his games and provide an accurate representation of being given an opportunity. Regardless of what you think of VdB, I thought i had seen every bad take on the caf but here's a new one:

Player A plays 90mins, 90mins, 10min, 10min, 10min, 10min, 10min, 10min, 10min, 10min across a series of 10 games.

Now 10 games is a decent amount to look for trends and he's played in all of them. So with your forumla he's played 260mins across 10 games which equals 26 minutes a game and plenty of time to see what he's about?

I know how averages work and deviations to averages, Plato. But as some here want to make the argument that he's been giving too little time at Man Utd to proof himself, I belief that is utter bull knowing he played more than 2000 minutes for us and didn't show any of his qualities. Whether you want to take the average or not, that stat undermines the 'he only got 3 minutes each game' narrative.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I know how averages work and deviations to averages, Plato. But as some here want to make the argument that he's been giving too little time at Man Utd to proof himself, I belief that is utter bull knowing he played more than 2000 minutes for us and didn't show any of his qualities. Whether you want to take the average or not, that stat undermines the 'he only got 3 minutes each game' narrative.

If you understand deviations then I assume you understand how standard deviation works and can therefore quickly go and see there is credence to the argument he didn't get much real game time. Even on a basic level look at this:

Games played (PL)	20/21 mins	21/22 mins	22/23 mins
1	23	6	12
2	1	10	3
3	22	45	4
4	14	1	65
5	15	1	25
6	12	4	9
7	90	2	45
8	45	1
9	10
10	19
11	7
12	45
13	11
14	8
15	7
16	1
17	90
18	3
19	90

That's not even illustrating al the gaps between the games either because the point is undeniable. He has never played back to back games in the league where he's had over 45mins in each game, it is mental to suggest he's had a real chance here (regardless of if you think he would have done anything with that chance).

 

[Care_de_Bobo]

If you understand deviations then I assume you understand how standard deviation works and can therefore quickly go and see there is credence to the argument he didn't get much real game time. Even on a basic level look at this:

Games played (PL)	20/21 mins	21/22 mins	22/23 mins
1	23	6	12
2	1	10	3
3	22	45	4
4	14	1	65
5	15	1	25
6	12	4	9
7	90	2	45
8	45	1
9	10
10	19
11	7
12	45
13	11
14	8
15	7
16	1
17	90
18	3
19	90

That's not even illustrating al the gaps between the games either because the point is undeniable. He has never played back to back games in the league where he's had over 45mins in each game, it is mental to suggest he's had a real chance here (regardless of if you think he would have done anything with that chance).

Exactly. If you spend £40m on a player, then you have to give them at least a run of 4 or 5 games to test them. It can take players a year or so to adapt to a new league, but they never will if they never play.

By freezing him out the way United(especially Solskjaer) have done, his value just continues to plummet and we're left wondering why nobody wants to take him off our hands. Shocking mismanagement and it could lead to young players choosing other clubs over us as they don't see many signs of progress if they join us.

The likes of Van de Beek and Sancho get plenty of stick for not being good enough, but who is the last young player we signed who genuinely improved during their time at the club? The lack of improvement from our players surely highlights a big problem with the coaching and team selections, rather than the players themselves. They can't all be that bad.

 

[Abraxas]

Exactly. If you spend £40m on a player, then you have to give them at least a run of 4 or 5 games to test them. It can take players a year or so to adapt to a new league, but they never will if they never play.

By freezing him out the way United(especially Solskjaer) have done, his value just continues to plummet and we're left wondering why nobody wants to take him off our hands. Shocking mismanagement and it could lead to young players choosing other clubs over us as they don't see many signs of progress if they join us.

The likes of Van de Beek and Sancho get plenty of stick for not being good enough, but who is the last young player we signed who genuinely improved during their time at the club? The lack of improvement from our players surely highlights a big problem with the coaching and team selections, rather than the players themselves. They can't all be that bad.

Who is wondering why nobody wants to take him off our hands? How many are sat there confused by such a thing, must be a tiny fraction of people. We know precisely why. He's rubbish at this level and expensive to maintain for clubs that are ready to offer him a chance. He was also injured so that's another factor that makes him unappealing.

They're not all bad but some of them are simply bad and there's no mystery or miraculous reasoning required. VDB won't achieve much in his career moving forward because he's just not very good. Sancho might, that may be more of an adaptation and mentality issue so there are differences between all players and why they might fail.

I don't think he has been mismanaged either. It's not a charity out there, the "chance" you are given when you are signed is to be a Man United player. The chance was never that you'll get X games in a row or definitely get 90 mins. It's then on you to earn a spot and impress. VDB has never been able to earn any managers trust and we've had multiple, including one who managed him before. It's much more of a player issue than a club issue. The club issue was signing the fecker.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Exactly. If you spend £40m on a player, then you have to give them at least a run of 4 or 5 games to test them. It can take players a year or so to adapt to a new league, but they never will if they never play.

By freezing him out the way United(especially Solskjaer) have done, his value just continues to plummet and we're left wondering why nobody wants to take him off our hands. Shocking mismanagement and it could lead to young players choosing other clubs over us as they don't see many signs of progress if they join us.

The likes of Van de Beek and Sancho get plenty of stick for not being good enough, but who is the last young player we signed who genuinely improved during their time at the club? The lack of improvement from our players surely highlights a big problem with the coaching and team selections, rather than the players themselves. They can't all be that bad.

Yep there's two parts to this, one is the club hangs onto players way too long. If Ole decided after the first season he wasn't right (and whilst Ole didn't lead training he would know from Carrick/McKenna) the club should have tried to move him on and recoup a decent part of the fee. He wasn't an expensive purchase but his stock would have still be good.

The second part is what is most worrying about us post SAF, we rarely have a player join and keep the same level/improve. Bruno is maybe one who bucks this trend as frustrating as he can be, his output remains decent albeit I think it's steadily been decreasing since he joined with each season. At least with ETH that wasn't the case last year and signings did well + we saw players improve.