Donny Van De Beek | he stays!

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FujiVice said:
Solksjaers decision making at the negotiating table left a lot to be desired. Some absolute shockers during a time when we really needed massive upgrades. The fact Ten Hag came in and immediately solved the DM problem we'd had for years was a genuine surprise, when in reality it shouldnt be. A top manager does that.
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It was obvious he didn't want to rock the boat too much, he just sat and nodded watching people of higher ups making decisions for him. Forget about DM, we didnt even sign a proper striker aside of bunch of old strikers. ETH isn't like that. He keeps pushing the club for new players, put pressure on the public while still keep it respectul unlike Mourinho. Thats how proper manager work because when the team is failing the only one who is going to lose their job is the manager.

AFC NimbleThumb said:
He had far more blind spots than just at DM. As a player, faultless but the manager set us back years.
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No, he didnt. Let's talk about the club's situation under Mourinho when half of team revolting under him, the locker room was divided into pro and anti-mourinho, we had sanchez issue that created problems especially in term of salary with other players asking bigger money (De Gea and Martial), and young players like Rashford and Shaw being humiliated publicly by their own manager, also let's not forget we were also 11 points off from top 4 when Jose was sacked. Under Ole we played expansive football no matter how unstructured it was, we again scored more than 4 goals in a match, something which we've only done 1 time after Fergie retired (Moyes' united defeated Leverkusen in 2013). young strikers like Rashford and Martial finally reached their 20 goals per season threadmarks, Shaw's career was rejuvenated, Mason Greenwood seemed like the best academy prospect since Giggs, and we finally have FUNCTIONAL NO. 10 in Bruno after years of Mata, Mikhitaryan, Lingard, and Pogba. Even some of Ole expensive flops like Maguire are still sellable. so not he didnt set us back years (that would be either Moyes or LvG), because when he arrived in Dec 2018, Klopp and Pep have been here for years and have developed very strong teams.
 
So if a move to Sociedad has collapsed, where will he go now? He can’t stay if it’s blocking new midfield reinforcements
 
Alemar said:
So if a move to Sociedad has collapsed, where will he go now? He can’t stay if it’s blocking new midfield reinforcements
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West Ham? Unlike with Scott, we might actually quote them a reasonable price because people at the club seem to have recognized his weaknesses...
(although even WH - probably- wouldn't be desperate enough to sign him)
 
Maybe West Ham could pay Fred level money for him at least? Would be acceptable
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
He had far more blind spots than just at DM. As a player, faultless but the manager set us back years.
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100%. Where we are right now, we could have been in 2021, 2022 latest. I don't blame it on Ole, I am sure he did his best, I blame the people responsible for not having the foresight to see his limitations. I mean, back then it was en vogue to have an ex-player as the manager and why not give it a shot. Ole was great when he took over as interim. But he should have never get the job after that.

People going on about where we were before: doesn't make sense to compare yourself to your worse self. There are no league points for being better than yourself a year or two ago. It is harsh to say "he set us back" - wouldn't phrase it like that - but for sure he made us stay where we were, in the wilderness while teams left, right and center evolved.
 
Alemar said:
Maybe West Ham could pay Fred level money for him at least? Would be acceptable
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Moyes, whatever his other blind spots, wouldn't sign someone as slight and sluggish as Donny to play the kind of football he has WH set up for.
 
garelo said:
It was obvious he didn't want to rock the boat too much, he just sat and nodded watching people of higher ups making decisions for him. Forget about DM, we didnt even sign a proper striker aside of bunch of old strikers. ETH isn't like that. He keeps pushing the club for new players, put pressure on the public while still keep it respectul unlike Mourinho. Thats how proper manager work because when the team is failing the only one who is going to lose their job is the manager.



No, he didnt. Let's talk about the club's situation under Mourinho when half of team revolting under him, the locker room was divided into pro and anti-mourinho, we had sanchez issue that created problems especially in term of salary with other players asking bigger money (De Gea and Martial), and young players like Rashford and Shaw being humiliated publicly by their own manager, also let's not forget we were also 11 points off from top 4 when Jose was sacked. Under Ole we played expansive football no matter how unstructured it was, we again scored more than 4 goals in a match, something which we've only done 1 time after Fergie retired (Moyes' united defeated Leverkusen in 2013). young strikers like Rashford and Martial finally reached their 20 goals per season threadmarks, Shaw's career was rejuvenated, Mason Greenwood seemed like the best academy prospect since Giggs, and we finally have FUNCTIONAL NO. 10 in Bruno after years of Mata, Mikhitaryan, Lingard, and Pogba. Even some of Ole expensive flops like Maguire are still sellable. so not he didnt set us back years (that would be either Moyes or LvG), because when he arrived in Dec 2018, Klopp and Pep have been here for years and have developed very strong teams.
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You should get a tick for this post. Well done
 
garelo said:
No, he didnt. Let's talk about the club's situation under Mourinho when half of team revolting under him, the locker room was divided into pro and anti-mourinho, we had sanchez issue that created problems especially in term of salary with other players asking bigger money (De Gea and Martial), and young players like Rashford and Shaw being humiliated publicly by their own manager, also let's not forget we were also 11 points off from top 4 when Jose was sacked. Under Ole we played expansive football no matter how unstructured it was, we again scored more than 4 goals in a match, something which we've only done 1 time after Fergie retired (Moyes' united defeated Leverkusen in 2013). young strikers like Rashford and Martial finally reached their 20 goals per season threadmarks, Shaw's career was rejuvenated, Mason Greenwood seemed like the best academy prospect since Giggs, and we finally have FUNCTIONAL NO. 10 in Bruno after years of Mata, Mikhitaryan, Lingard, and Pogba. Even some of Ole expensive flops like Maguire are still sellable. so not he didnt set us back years (that would be either Moyes or LvG), because when he arrived in Dec 2018, Klopp and Pep have been here for years and have developed very strong teams.
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I hope some of you find people in your personal lives as loyal to your feck ups as you remain to Ole’s. He was a poor manager, many are but no need to act like he was faultless.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
I hope some of you find people in your personal lives as loyal to your feck ups as you remain to Ole’s. He was a poor manager, many are but no need to act like he was faultless.
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nobody denies that, if you bothered to read my post above you can see exactly what i think of him as manager but to say he set us back for years is gibberish....
 
garelo said:
It was obvious he didn't want to rock the boat too much, he just sat and nodded watching people of higher ups making decisions for him. Forget about DM, we didnt even sign a proper striker aside of bunch of old strikers. ETH isn't like that. He keeps pushing the club for new players, put pressure on the public while still keep it respectul unlike Mourinho. Thats how proper manager work because when the team is failing the only one who is going to lose their job is the manager.



No, he didnt. Let's talk about the club's situation under Mourinho when half of team revolting under him, the locker room was divided into pro and anti-mourinho, we had sanchez issue that created problems especially in term of salary with other players asking bigger money (De Gea and Martial), and young players like Rashford and Shaw being humiliated publicly by their own manager, also let's not forget we were also 11 points off from top 4 when Jose was sacked. Under Ole we played expansive football no matter how unstructured it was, we again scored more than 4 goals in a match, something which we've only done 1 time after Fergie retired (Moyes' united defeated Leverkusen in 2013). young strikers like Rashford and Martial finally reached their 20 goals per season threadmarks, Shaw's career was rejuvenated, Mason Greenwood seemed like the best academy prospect since Giggs, and we finally have FUNCTIONAL NO. 10 in Bruno after years of Mata, Mikhitaryan, Lingard, and Pogba. Even some of Ole expensive flops like Maguire are still sellable. so not he didnt set us back years (that would be either Moyes or LvG), because when he arrived in Dec 2018, Klopp and Pep have been here for years and have developed very strong teams.
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I love Ole but I said when he left he was a disaster and whoever came in would dismantle pretty much everything he did. That is exactly what is happening because there was no other way forward.

He did set us back years as did everyone else involved in all the decisions at that time, the only complaint Ole can have is that plenty of others behind the scenes managed to survive.

DVB looks like someone who will spend rest of his Utd career on loan, I was hoping Ajax might want him back but doesn’t seem to be the case.
 
It's pretty much a statement of the way things are that any manager that doesn't reach expectations in the transfer market will set you back years because it takes multiple years to refresh a squad to a significant degree. In that respect everyone post Fergie has set us back years because they all fecked up our squad.

That's how football is. Winners and losers in the market and it dictates most of your success. Sometimes managers do well in the market (or the club does) and it's only terrible tactical and man management, but most of the time it's not - bad management usually compounds itself across most areas.
 
Abraxas said:
It's pretty much a statement of the way things are that any manager that doesn't reach expectations in the transfer market will set you back years because it takes multiple years to refresh a squad to a significant degree. In that respect everyone post Fergie has set us back years because they all fecked up our squad.

That's how football is. Winners and losers in the market and it dictates most of your success. Sometimes managers do well in the market (or the club does) and it's only terrible tactical and man management, but most of the time it's not - bad management usually compounds itself across most areas.
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Another good post I've seen from you in a short amount of time.

Well said.
 
garelo said:
nobody denies that, if you bothered to read my post above you can see exactly what i think of him as manager but to say he set us back for years is gibberish....
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. . .
Abraxas said:
It's pretty much a statement of the way things are that any manager that doesn't reach expectations in the transfer market will set you back years because it takes multiple years to refresh a squad to a significant degree. In that respect everyone post Fergie has set us back years because they all fecked up our squad.

That's how football is. Winners and losers in the market and it dictates most of your success. Sometimes managers do well in the market (or the club does) and it's only terrible tactical and man management, but most of the time it's not - bad management usually compounds itself across most areas.
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Wednesday at Stoke said:
He’s at his best as a #10 who can score goals in and around the box with his movement and link up play. That’s also why Ole bought him as he was talking about wanting a midfielder who can add goals. Problem for him is that we got Bruno, who became undroppable and hardly ever misses games while Van de Beek is useless anywhere else.

I expected him to have more of a role when Ten Hag arrived and seemed to settle on a system that needs two hybrid #8/#10 types and I’m even more surprised he wants him sold now when he could use him as a back up for Mount it the odd game Bruno rests. I guess Ten Hag realized his confidence is completely shot and he needs to find it in a much lower profile club.
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I also thought he'd get more game time under Ten Hag. Anyway hes probably a system player and outside of that system he just doesnt fit.
 
You could buy entire clubs with the money we've wasted in the transfer market.
 
Baxquux said:
West Ham? Unlike with Scott, we might actually quote them a reasonable price because people at the club seem to have recognized his weaknesses...
(although even WH - probably- wouldn't be desperate enough to sign him)
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WH won't touch him with a barge pole.
 
Hes honestly one of those players that I can't understand how he gets money to play football.
Other than being lean and somewhat physically fit he's nothing.
He's just a total con
 
garelo said:
No, he didnt. Let's talk about the club's situation under Mourinho when half of team revolting under him, the locker room was divided into pro and anti-mourinho, we had sanchez issue that created problems especially in term of salary with other players asking bigger money (De Gea and Martial), and young players like Rashford and Shaw being humiliated publicly by their own manager, also let's not forget we were also 11 points off from top 4 when Jose was sacked. Under Ole we played expansive football no matter how unstructured it was, we again scored more than 4 goals in a match, something which we've only done 1 time after Fergie retired (Moyes' united defeated Leverkusen in 2013). young strikers like Rashford and Martial finally reached their 20 goals per season threadmarks, Shaw's career was rejuvenated, Mason Greenwood seemed like the best academy prospect since Giggs, and we finally have FUNCTIONAL NO. 10 in Bruno after years of Mata, Mikhitaryan, Lingard, and Pogba. Even some of Ole expensive flops like Maguire are still sellable. so not he didnt set us back years (that would be either Moyes or LvG), because when he arrived in Dec 2018, Klopp and Pep have been here for years and have developed very strong teams.
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Wow, that’s certainly looking at his spell extremely rosey eyed.

His final season was our biggest post SAF embarrassment, with an embarrassing 58 points & a squad in absolute disarray, with dressing room and giant Ronaldo problems everywhere you looked.

We’re currently dismantling the vast majority of his extremely expensive squad within just 21 months, that same squad that managed 58 fecking embarrassing as feck points.

We couldn’t find a buyer for AWB last season, no-one wants DvB, we’re losing 50 million on Maguire, Sancho is a massive 85m flop who looks at best a bench player this season.

Martial wasn’t rejuvenated, his final season under Ole was as shit & injury plauged as most of his others, and after being rewarded a new big contract under Ole he’s a giant issue again for the new manager. If anything Ole ruined his already fragile mind by bringing in Ronaldo, who later went scorched Earth on everything and everyone.

Only two of his signings look fit for a top drawer United, despite him spending almost 500m euros.

He was fecking shite, and set us back years. Years because the year of his sacking was a fecking write off, and because the squad was such a fecking travesty that last year could never be anything other than setting a new foundation. His terribly spent 500m means we’ll likely need another Summer before we can truly compete.
 
garelo said:
It was obvious he didn't want to rock the boat too much, he just sat and nodded watching people of higher ups making decisions for him. Forget about DM, we didnt even sign a proper striker aside of bunch of old strikers. ETH isn't like that. He keeps pushing the club for new players, put pressure on the public while still keep it respectul unlike Mourinho. Thats how proper manager work because when the team is failing the only one who is going to lose their job is the manager.



No, he didnt. Let's talk about the club's situation under Mourinho when half of team revolting under him, the locker room was divided into pro and anti-mourinho, we had sanchez issue that created problems especially in term of salary with other players asking bigger money (De Gea and Martial), and young players like Rashford and Shaw being humiliated publicly by their own manager, also let's not forget we were also 11 points off from top 4 when Jose was sacked. Under Ole we played expansive football no matter how unstructured it was, we again scored more than 4 goals in a match, something which we've only done 1 time after Fergie retired (Moyes' united defeated Leverkusen in 2013). young strikers like Rashford and Martial finally reached their 20 goals per season threadmarks, Shaw's career was rejuvenated, Mason Greenwood seemed like the best academy prospect since Giggs, and we finally have FUNCTIONAL NO. 10 in Bruno after years of Mata, Mikhitaryan, Lingard, and Pogba. Even some of Ole expensive flops like Maguire are still sellable. so not he didnt set us back years (that would be either Moyes or LvG), because when he arrived in Dec 2018, Klopp and Pep have been here for years and have developed very strong teams.
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That's definitely not what happened. As has been reported, Ole was using his own scout to report on players instead of using the clubs scouting team. The signings alone demonstrate that. Maguire was an ex-Phelan player, Dan James was recommended by Giggs (IIRC), Pellistri was recommended by Forlan (also IIRC) etc. The first team players he signed other than Varane and Bruno have pretty much all been sold, or we are actively trying to sell them. Even Wan Bissaka ( who has finally improved under Ten Hag) was on the chopping block last season.

All of our previous manager's were disasters as was the club in general. It's all well and good to talk about how Ole returned "the good vibes" post Mourinho but you cannot ignore his overusing of players leading to injury problems. The player's fitness levels going to the mud. The players declined under him as a result of his trainings. His signings have been pretty much terrible bar a couple. Mason Greenwood was a dead cert to come into the team. It's also funny to say Mata was not good for us when he had the most G+A at United during his time here, which considering his misuse as a winger is quite an accomplishment. Basically, your ignoring everything bad that occurred under Ole, whilst talking about how bad Mourinho, Moyes, and LVG were. They were all bad for us.
 
Abraxas said:
It's pretty much a statement of the way things are that any manager that doesn't reach expectations in the transfer market will set you back years because it takes multiple years to refresh a squad to a significant degree. In that respect everyone post Fergie has set us back years because they all fecked up our squad.

That's how football is. Winners and losers in the market and it dictates most of your success. Sometimes managers do well in the market (or the club does) and it's only terrible tactical and man management, but most of the time it's not - bad management usually compounds itself across most areas.
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Yeah nah... I mean, you are right, bad recruitment will make you suffer for longer time. But you are making it look as if it was mostly Ole being unlucky in the market. But that isn't what I remember. He wasn't unlucky, he just didn't seem to have a plan about how to go forward and how the world of football changed. When left right and center teams were going for organized pressing, his idea was staying deep and compact. While other teams went for organized ways of controlling the ball, the match, making use of repetitive patterns to free up players, Ole was going for characters he considered to be match winners...

It wasn't just that he was unlucky, he (and by him, I of course mean the rest of the decision makers, but I think, it was mostly him bringing ideas on how to set up and with whom), he ignored all the changes being made since 10 years before he took over the club and while he was here he ignored current trends as well. After LVG we became a team without a plan. Had he tried to recreate "his" United, with fast and tricky wingers, good strikers and being ferociously compact in defense we at least would have a more stable foundation to built from. But instead, ETH had to start almost from scratch.

I don't write that, because I like to beat Ole, again, I am sure he did his best. But if anything, we have to learn our lessons from those times. Just filing it under bad luck seems like a chance wasted in that regard.
 
NZT-One said:
Yeah nah... I mean, you are right, bad recruitment will make you suffer for longer time. But you are making it look as if it was mostly Ole being unlucky in the market. But that isn't what I remember. He wasn't unlucky, he just didn't seem to have a plan about how to go forward and how the world of football changed. When left right and center teams were going for organized pressing, his idea was staying deep and compact. While other teams went for organized ways of controlling the ball, the match, making use of repetitive patterns to free up players, Ole was going for characters he considered to be match winners...

It wasn't just that he was unlucky, he (and by him, I of course mean the rest of the decision makers, but I think, it was mostly him bringing ideas on how to set up and with whom), he ignored all the changes being made since 10 years before he took over the club and while he was here he ignored current trends as well. After LVG we became a team without a plan. Had he tried to recreate "his" United, with fast and tricky wingers, good strikers and being ferociously compact in defense we at least would have a more stable foundation to built from. But instead, ETH had to start almost from scratch.

I don't write that, because I like to beat Ole, again, I am sure he did his best. But if anything, we have to learn our lessons from those times. Just filing it under bad luck seems like a chance wasted in that regard.
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I'm not sure I mentioned luck. I'm not a big believer in luck in football. I just mean that he totally cocked up his recruitment. Maguire, AWB and Van de Beek summing it up.

Once that happens then it's obvious that the club is set back years and I don't think it needs much analysis, if you mess up a few years of recruitment then you are set back at least the corresponding amount, if not more as your rivals move forward. That's just logic I think. If you spend 3 or 4 windows bringing in poor players then obviously at least a few of your rivals will not do that and thus you're behind the curve. To be honest even staying the same is setting a club back years precisely for the reason that some of your rivals will dramatically improve and that's an inevitability.

After that it doesn't matter that he was tactically inept or motivationally inept in terms of legacy, that matters more to Ole's downfall. What matters to the next manager is the tools he has to work with. That's what dictates how far we are away once we remove the previous manager. As we've seen with ETH that looks like being 2-3 years of turnover just to get into position. That's not guaranteeing anything against City it's just to get us as a competitive outfit. So I come back to the fact that it's a fair statement to say Ole set us back a few years but he's not the only one. All his predecessors did similar and once that compounds itself you end up with a horrible squad.
 
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Abraxas said:
I'm not sure I mentioned luck. I'm not a big believer in luck in football. I just mean that he totally cocked up his recruitment. Maguire, AWB and Van de Beek summing it up.

Once that happens then it's obvious that the club is set back years and I don't think it needs much analysis, if you mess up a few years of recruitment then you are set back at least the corresponding amount, if not more as your rivals move forward. That's just logic I think. If you spend 3 or 4 windows bringing in poor players then obviously at least a few of your rivals will not do that and thus you're behind the curve. To be honest even staying the same is setting a club back years precisely for the reason that some of your rivals will dramatically improve and that's an inevitability.

After that it doesn't matter that he was tactically inept or motivationally inept in terms of legacy, that matters more to Ole's downfall. What matters to the next manager is the tools he has to work with. That's what dictates how far we are away once we remove the previous manager. As we've seen with ETH that looks like being 2-3 years of turnover just to get into position. That's not guaranteeing anything against City it's just to get us as a competitive outfit. So I come back to the fact that it's a fair statement to say Ole set us back a few years but he's not the only one. All his predecessors did similar and once that compounds itself you end up with a horrible squad.
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Ok apologies, must have been the tone that made me think you'd have seen it as mere back luck in terms of transfers. Thats why I added that even the reasons for his transfers were problematic, not just the transfers itself.

I agree with your description though.
 
NZT-One said:
Ok apologies, must have been the tone that made me think you'd have seen it as mere back luck in terms of transfers. Thats why I added that even the reasons for his transfers were problematic, not just the transfers itself.

I agree with your description though.
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No worries, I think we're on the same page. Ultimately Ole just wasn't up to scratch as a manager. It was strange he was put into that position without the required achievements and accolades behind him that would have suggested he would be successful. For me it's a bit sad because there is a cross section of supporters that only see him as the manager and not the player. Ultimately he's a grown man and he took it on and took the financial rewards so it's not that bad, I just wish Woodward and co showed more vision and the whole episode never happened.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
I hope some of you find people in your personal lives as loyal to your feck ups as you remain to Ole’s. He was a poor manager, many are but no need to act like he was faultless.
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He wasn’t though. He was a decent manager as proven by his league finishes and some of the football we displayed during his tenure. I have zero issues looking back on Oles era, at least he managed some decent moments. The biggest mistake we made post Fergie was getting that narcissist Mourinho into the club who was a far more damaging manager.
 
garelo said:
It was obvious he didn't want to rock the boat too much, he just sat and nodded watching people of higher ups making decisions for him. Forget about DM, we didnt even sign a proper striker aside of bunch of old strikers. ETH isn't like that. He keeps pushing the club for new players, put pressure on the public while still keep it respectul unlike Mourinho. Thats how proper manager work because when the team is failing the only one who is going to lose their job is the manager.



No, he didnt. Let's talk about the club's situation under Mourinho when half of team revolting under him, the locker room was divided into pro and anti-mourinho, we had sanchez issue that created problems especially in term of salary with other players asking bigger money (De Gea and Martial), and young players like Rashford and Shaw being humiliated publicly by their own manager, also let's not forget we were also 11 points off from top 4 when Jose was sacked. Under Ole we played expansive football no matter how unstructured it was, we again scored more than 4 goals in a match, something which we've only done 1 time after Fergie retired (Moyes' united defeated Leverkusen in 2013). young strikers like Rashford and Martial finally reached their 20 goals per season threadmarks, Shaw's career was rejuvenated, Mason Greenwood seemed like the best academy prospect since Giggs, and we finally have FUNCTIONAL NO. 10 in Bruno after years of Mata, Mikhitaryan, Lingard, and Pogba. Even some of Ole expensive flops like Maguire are still sellable. so not he didnt set us back years (that would be either Moyes or LvG), because when he arrived in Dec 2018, Klopp and Pep have been here for years and have developed very strong teams.
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Well said.
 
Giggsyking said:
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They made Klaassen of Everton infamy look like a good player again - makes sense that they could do so for Donny too. Probably the best move for him, short of maybe somewhere like Italy with a slightly more 'considered' pace to the game...
 
At least with Maguire, I could notice him making all them mistakes. This guy was just completely invisible.
 
zaafi said:
That'll be €70m you cnuts
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What the feck is wrong with you :lol:

Ajax are one of the most liked clubs in the world who we have a great relationship and you have no problem calling them cnuts

Daft post.
 
We would pay €5M max, ain't no way we're paying more than that.
 
VP89 said:
What the feck is wrong with you :lol:

Ajax are one of the most liked clubs in the world who we have a great relationship and you have no problem calling them cnuts

Daft post.
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Did someone piss in your breakfast? Calm down.

Yeah, great relationship who feck us over with every transfer and no problems adding several millions when they hear our name. :lol:
 
zaafi said:
Did someone piss in your breakfast? Calm down.

Yeah, great relationship who feck us over with every transfer and no problems adding several millions when they hear our name. :lol:
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We fecked up the Antony deal and overpaid for our own mistakes of chasing FdJ. Call us cnuts next time and take off your rose tinted glasses.
 
VP89 said:
We fecked up the Antony deal and overpaid for our own mistakes of chasing FdJ. Call us cnuts next time and take off your rose tinted glasses.
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What does that even mean? Did we put a gun to Ajax' head and force them to raise the price? I know we've got a good relationship with them, mostly due to van der Sar, but why are you getting so upset that I called them cnuts? It's really not that serious. Take a look at their sales to us over the last couple of years. I know they don't owe us anything, but these fees are way too high considering bigger talents like Kudus and Timber are going for much less.

van de Beek - €40m (2020)
Martinez - €60m (2022)
Antony - €95m (2022)
Blind - €18m (2014)
 
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