The Dutch Kagawa.
34
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No he can't be a 9, because he doesn't possess striker qualities. The right sided role hasn't been one for natural right wingers in the traditional sense, that's why Mata and Greenwood have been deployed there. The case could be made for VDB to get opportunities there given his skillset is suited particularly higher up the pitch and he has some great off the ball movement to hurt teams in the final 3rd.
The bold point I disagree with as a good enough reason, because Pogba has been used as a left winger of late when he didn't play there for a few seasons and Greenwood came to life on the right when he very inexperienced there too. Dan James joined us as a left winger who was put out on the right too. Going by how shit James and Greenwood have been this season, it's not a stretch at all to suggest VDB could have been given opportunities there. It's also not a stretch to think VDB could have had opportunities when he was very fit early in the season and Pogba was struggling with covid, but he didn't even though Pogba was diabolical and clearly not fit. That is an obvious error in judgement from Ole and the team.
I don't really think he suits CM, he suits being further up the pitch.
Gives him more space to pass backwards in?
I think the exact opposite, I see a lot of good midfielder qualities in him. The problem with van de Beek in AM role is it requires others to make the right moves, and I don't think we're getting there anytime soon.
His probably most suited to being part of the midfield 3, but more like single pivot + two 8's rather than double pivot + number 10 we use now.
I agree and actually the way Bruno plays we could actually do this. It could be that the standard position is that Bruno plays more attacking but I can definitely see how at times VDB could push beyond Bruno so we can make use of his attacking skills as well with Bruno providing the cover.
Unimpressed about what I've seen so far, but then again he hasn't played that much.
As long as Bruno is fit he'll have a very hard time getting minutes.
As long as Bruno is fit he'll have a very hard time getting minutes.
Having him and Bruno in front of a CDM could work wonders. I think Donny's movement and one touch will work well with Bruno. It's just finding someone who could fulfil that Fernandinho role. There are very few like that.
Way too early to write him off.
Has barely got a sniff, let alone a proper run with the team. New country, new league.
Loads of players need time to adjust, the ones impressing immediately are the exceptions.
Has barely got a sniff, let alone a proper run with the team. New country, new league.
Loads of players need time to adjust, the ones impressing immediately are the exceptions.
You'll see him at his strongest behind Bruno. Press resistant player that moves the ball from defence to attack at a quicker pace and more accurately than the other deep midfielders. The 4 attackers ahead of him can do the more adventurous stuff. I'm looking forward to seeing Fred, DVB and Fernandes play together as a 3 again, I can't believe it hasn't been used since Basaksehir got thrashed at Old Trafford.
For now, I don't think we saw enough about him being a Red Devil, we need to keep our patience.
I think he will flourish when Pogba will leave or/and in case of injuries (Fernandes for example) maybe he is better behind the striker. With McTominay or Fred, in a double pivot, we don't know yet.
Let's see if he can grab more minutes next games.
I think he will flourish when Pogba will leave or/and in case of injuries (Fernandes for example) maybe he is better behind the striker. With McTominay or Fred, in a double pivot, we don't know yet.
Let's see if he can grab more minutes next games.
He had very good game, and was much better than McT who I felt was given a bogus MOTM by BT sport commentary.
Remember, that in contrast to last season, we´ve hardly had any injuries, and more than anything, vdB was signed to add debt to our squad. If this season had been anything like last season, he would have been given lot of game time already instead of the likes of Pereira and Lingard.
I have not been one of those demanding vdB to start (e.g, I don´t have the luxury of seeing him in training), but I agree he was our best players last night.
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Freudian slip
One hypothesis could be , we bought him to replace Pogba who was set to join Juventus.
Juventus do not have the cash and now Pogba is changing his mind and decided to stay.
Recent twitter posts by Fernandes indicate that him and Pogba are getting quite well together suggesting that Pogba is happier than he was a few months ago.
Maybe VdB is now seen surplus to requirements as those at the top prefer Pogba to him.
Or else, he simply took longer than expected to settle down
In my view, other than sentimentality I don't see what more McT brings to the first team than VdB would.
Agreed. He don’t fit with what we are currently building. We still need this DoF.. fast.
That's what Peter Bosz, said..
If he doesn’t make it into this team that’s a truly shocking transfer. One of the worst in our history.
He’s a very good footballer. To buy him with no idea how he’ll get in the team, screams ineptitude and waste.
He’s a very good footballer. To buy him with no idea how he’ll get in the team, screams ineptitude and waste.
Hehe, yes. Looks like I added an "h" to my own debt there..Freudian slip
Hard to say, really, since we don´t yet. But vdB would perhaps make us better at keeping possession, while McT adds more physics. I think they could work pretty well as a pair (or Matic + vdB as an alternative to Matic + Pogba).
The key thing for us would be to sign a really good DM.
Like how The Sun made a right arse of themselves by putting out an article about Donny not taking his chance but then still preceded to give him a 7 in their match ratings
Yeah, this obsession with McTominay is really strange. He scored the goal which is of course an important factor and deserves credit, but praising him for his overall performance while mentioning that Donny has failed to impress when given a chance is a joke. He is a much better footballer than McTominay, this is obvious.
And I agree with those saying he is not a 10 and should play in the middle of the park. He got completely different strengths compared to Bruno.
Finding a CDM combining the positive attributes of McTominay, Fred and Matic would help us a lot and I assume that Ole hoped one of those 3 will improve and play the role on his own. Unfortunately none of them is good enough so we end up seeing 2 of them most of the time, and Donny is kind of the victim.
I think people are overthinking this and next year or by 2022-23 - if we dawdle a bit on buying a proper DM - we'll play like this, with Pogba in Paris, Italy or Spain:
--Bruno---- (VDB, 1 of Diallo/Mejbri/Shoretire)
--------VDB (Fred)
----DM---- (McTominay)
He just makes a lot of sense as Bruno's partner trying to get him the ball and do his part defensively and filling in attacking spots when the DM goes to chase Bruno because he's a threat from wider and deeper than most 10s.
--Bruno---- (VDB, 1 of Diallo/Mejbri/Shoretire)
--------VDB (Fred)
----DM---- (McTominay)
He just makes a lot of sense as Bruno's partner trying to get him the ball and do his part defensively and filling in attacking spots when the DM goes to chase Bruno because he's a threat from wider and deeper than most 10s.
Seriously, you are so reactionary... wow.
We have bought Bebe, Obertan, Djemba Djemba, Di Maria, Sanchez and many more and you think he is the worst transfer?
Just because he isn't in the first team in the first 6 months he is the worst transfer?
How much more reactionary can you get?
Does this mean every player we purchase should be in the first team, or there has to be a written paper of how he will get in?
How do you know that Ole doesn't have a plan? Also, you do realise football is a team game, no one expected Bruno to maintain form this long, he was brought in to compete with him and at the moment Bruno is in top form, if he dips and Donny comes in, that will be reason we got him.
Quite a lot it seems.
He isn't really an "impressive" player and I think that's the issue. To the average fan who watches him for the first time he doesn't look special, but in football terms he is excellent
He's been schooled to be efficient and robotic, he does everything well technique wise. First touch is great, awareness very good and plays out of tight areas better than anybody in our team (maybe shaw too)
statistically his accuracy is good, he runs plenty and makes a good amount of tackles/interceptions - so what is it that people are not liking?
I think our fans have a bit too much appreciation for the hollywood stuff. Long balls, long range shots etc. He just isn't really that player so some won't take him.
I do think though next to Fred and Fernandes he's the perfect foil for them both.
Donny is a very good player as a link player, playing him as a CDM is wasted. The reason Pogba is played there is because he has the ability to find a pass. Donny does not have that ability which is why him in the CDM is wasted. He will pass side ways and short passes. He is most influential further up the pitch, when his short, one touch passing is used to create space, like the backheel flick to Mata.
In that role we have Bruno at the moment, so I do not get why everyone is so worked up about him not playing?
In that role we have Bruno at the moment, so I do not get why everyone is so worked up about him not playing?
We finally have a good option from the bench, who can play many positions and who does not complain he isn't a starteer and you call it the worst transfer?
It was, beside bruno obviously, one of our better recent transfers.
We were crying for squad depth and not lingard, pereira etc.
I'll ignore the pretentiousness for now
The issue is not that he's not a "highlight reel player". The issue is that in our current setup he's not suited for anything but the no.10 position. He's smart and hardworking, but he's not that good defensively. I rate Fred, McTominay and Matic higher in this particular aspect.
His strengths lie in his passing and positioning, primarily. To fully utilize this we need him further up the pitch. He's slow and a poor dribbler, so he's not gonna drive the ball forward in an effective manner like you'd expect a box-to-box midfielder to do. There have been multiple instances where he's received the ball with lots of empty space ahead where the correct decision is to drive the ball forwards at least 15-20 meters before passing(or dribbling). What does he do? Stop and play the ball sideways/backwards, often to players in a worse position than him.
Those are the main issues for me. He's clearly not a DM and he's too slow/unassertive to play box-to-box at the highest level. In a different setup, where the team is relentlessly attacking and always keeps a high line regardless of opponent, I could see Donny playing box-to-box, as there would be less need for speed and more need for killer passes. But that's generally not how we play. Against teams that park the bus I can see Donny starting, but even then I think Fred and McTominay is a better pairing.
I believe that every new player deserves at least a full season, though. Especially the younger ones. That's why I'm gonna reserve my final judgements for another year or so. But based on what I'm seeing so far, he's a backup to Bruno. I don't think he should start further down the pitch.
I think VdB's superior positioning and ability to play through pressure beats McT's physicality in most games, as it doesn't matter how much strength and stamina you've got if you keep getting caught wrong footed and easily bypassed. For me, the VdB Fred and Pogba Fred double pivots would be much better than any involving McT or Matic. I don't rate McT on the ball and Matic legs have completely gone, so having any of them in our midfield pivot creates a inherent weakness that can be constantly exploited. I definitely need to see VdB play more, but so far I've see nothing from McT that I've even doubted VdB can't do from the little he's played.
McT's goal was technically very good and it won us the game, that's for sure. However the rest of his performance circled around average to below average. VdB's performance was second only to Tuanzebe for me. Telles also had a good one for a shout, he attacked well in the first half and dutifully defended Maguire's left side in the second. I would even argue that Williams and possibly Mata(a shame he couldn't put the deserved finish to VdB's backheeled throughball) had better performances than Scott.
In terms of CDM, I think Fred can be a very good one if he puts his mind to it and the only question is whether he wants to or not. I feel like Ole would be happy to play a mid three of Bruno Fred Pogba(VdB) if Fred showed continued dedication and improvement as a mobile CDM and destroyer.
It’s a lot of money to spend on a player that can’t function in a role in our side.
I really like him. He’s a very good footballer. I’ve said this. He was a great signing on paper.
But it seems as though he’s not a fit for the system. He’s versatile but he’s not better than Matic, Pogba, Fred, McTominay or Bruno in their best positions. If we’re not going to change system then it’s a bizarre signing as he’ll never play.
It’s a genuine concern that we’ve spent £35m+ to sit on the bench. That’s really odd. Perhaps he’s been signed to replace Pogba. If that pans out then cool. But now, it looks like money wasted.
I don't see how anyone has the gall to write a player off who has barely featured. He plays in drips and drabs and rarely in the position he probably should be (one of two CMs in front of a DM).
I keep hearing that Ole wants to play more expansively and we have, in VDB, a midfielder who would suit a tweak to more progressive possession side but we never try it. He just doesn't suit our system.
I keep hearing that Ole wants to play more expansively and we have, in VDB, a midfielder who would suit a tweak to more progressive possession side but we never try it. He just doesn't suit our system.
Id like to see Pogba----Matic-----VDB midfield. In theory that midfield has everything.
So you would drop Bruno?
Lets drop our best player because Donny hasn't played enough... and include Pogba who has shown inconsistency throughout his time here and wants to leave....
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