VDB is going to have one of those fanbases, isn't he ?
We've already got the classic 'Ole obviously deslikes him'
We've already got the classic 'Ole obviously deslikes him'
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Blinkered ? I'd go a step further and say dumb.
He isn't. VDB hasn't proved anything to be considered better than Pogba. If he was, he would already be starting games now.
He's vindicated by his results, but what I went on to say, was that there is nothing to suggest the results would have been much different if VDB played - i.e. there is nothing Pogba has really shown to justify starting over VDB in my eyes at least. I've stated why I would rather see VDB in the role and can point to say, Southampton as an example (I don't have many to go by, granted, but my point is that Pogba's individual performances isn't really warranting the start for me).
Results is one thing, performances are another. If you look at the pre-match thread for Wolves I even stated its a mistake starting Pogba and Matic, they are terribly static - and that's how the game panned out. Bruno whipping it in for Rashford doesn't really change that or vindicate Pogba starting in that sense.
The reason why I used the word "criminal" is more down to the external factors. Pogba wants out, he's no Ronaldo (far, far from it) and he's not even one of the best midfielders in this league let alone the world. And yet he somehow starts over VDB which is mind boggling, given his performances haven't really suggested him to perform any better in the role than VDB when he's been given his chances. The only really bad performance I've seen from VDB was against West Ham where 1) he was in a 10 and 2) the whole team was shite.
But starting a player who has disrespected the club (and he has, because his agent has, and he full well knows of his agent's actions) when the player isn't even world class in his performances is just bizarre, especially when you have a hungry young talent in VDB on the bench.
Pogba hasn't proved anything to be better than VDB. He hasn't been bad when featured but he's shown very little to justify starting each game let alone being worth a huge fee. McTominay and Fred are faovoured in big games. Whereas VDB has operated in certain fixtures where Pogba was diabolical in to show he is a better choice, for example if you refer to Pogba vs Southampton last season vs VDB who played in place of Pogba, and shone against Southampton this season.
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Except being better when hes played...
But in the same role, he hasn't. The problem is there isn't a lot to go by (yet) but individually VDB's performances against Bashakshehir, Leipzig (this was a diamond but he was not a 10), Southampton were no worse than anything we've seen from Pogba all season. In fact there are matches where Pogba has been quite poor, but granted there was a recovery needed after he had covid. So from a performance angle he hasn't actually shown much.
We just disagree.
This thread is mad.
A young player signed as depth. If Bruno needs to miss games and we are in the title race you will be happy it isn't periera playing at 10
A young player signed as depth. If Bruno needs to miss games and we are in the title race you will be happy it isn't periera playing at 10
We'll likely play Pogba as a 10 with Fred,McTom or Matic behind..
At the moment I see Beek as a tidy yet somewhat uninspiring player who clearly needs time to adapt to the PL and our way of playing.
Obviously a lot depents on Pogba's future. I Pogba leaves next summer, we can see his first season as acclimatisation to the country, club and style of play. If Pogba is still here next season, he should look for other options as he clearly can not afford to constantly sit on the bench at this stage of his career.
I feel he's lacking a bit of confidence atm because of his little game time. For example the obvious and easy through ball he refused to play to Martial or Rashford (not sure who it was) in the Sheffield game is a clear indication of it. He strikes me as a player who needs rythm and game time to fully express himself. One of the reasons i think he's not suited to the substitute role during a game.
I feel he's lacking a bit of confidence atm because of his little game time. For example the obvious and easy through ball he refused to play to Martial or Rashford (not sure who it was) in the Sheffield game is a clear indication of it. He strikes me as a player who needs rythm and game time to fully express himself. One of the reasons i think he's not suited to the substitute role during a game.
we will see i suppose
He’s a player for the hipsters to adopt because he came through the Ajax system so is ‘three steps ahead of his team mates’. Truth is that he’s massively overrated because of those narratives and is a nothing player far too often. I said it when we signed him.
I‘ve criticised Pogba a lot but he’s twice the player of DVB at least.
Nothing Player.
Not true. Pogba has had some magnificent games for us albeit inconsistent in other matches. Yes , he hasn't been a success for us but it doesn't mean he has been better than a player who has proved nothing with us. VdB hasn't even started 2 matches with us.
May be he will be better in the long run or he will prove himself but at this point Pogba is a far better player than VDB ever has been (for us ).
He hasn't had a single "magnificent" performance for us this season.
Lets just agree to disagree. Pogba is most certainly showing nothing superior in his performances relative to VDB when he's been given opportunities in a similar role. The sample is thin however as VDB hasn't been tested as much in that position, despite having good performances in the CL and vs Southampton there.
People are talking about how James should start at RM/RW vs Aston Villa but I think VDB would do much better than him and provide the better crosses and help wan Bissaka stop Grealish.
Just seems all too random to pick him like that though.
Just seems all too random to pick him like that though.
Ofcourse he has been very bad this season. I am with you on that. It's just that VDB part which I am not convinced yet.
Nearly all of his goals is in the box.
He is pretty much a striker and that's why people compare him to Muller.
He has no chance purely because of Bruno being brilliant.
The only way I see both of them link together is if I believe one day VDB plays like a muller / false 9 trying to interlink Rashford and Greenwood with his short passes whilst making runs and finishes. That could work quite well in my opinion but VDB has to play the Firmino role of a hard working goalscorer.
Rashford - VDB - Greenwood
Bruno
Fred - Mctomminay
Shaw - Maguire - Lindelof - AWB
Bruno
Fred - Mctomminay
Shaw - Maguire - Lindelof - AWB
All the more better I'd even say, the main point is that the squad is general is better. VDB's individual case isn't the most urgent thing to focus on.
With Cavani not playing tomorrow, could we see him as one of the front 3? I hope so, he needs as many minutes as possible to get up to speed with the league (life Fred needed in his first season)
Van De Beek hasn't shown enough to be considered in front of Pogba even if he is leaving. For all the slack Pogba gets he is a potential matchwinner. Ole not bringing Donny on when we needed a goal against Wolves showed alot.
He's tidy, good in possession but he's so so timid with the ball. Releases the ball too soon at times when he could have carried it further. Looks very similar to Tom Cleverley at the moment.
I want him to succeed here and it may be the case of needing a season to get used to surroundings, what the manager requires etc. I have faith he can become integral over time.
He's tidy, good in possession but he's so so timid with the ball. Releases the ball too soon at times when he could have carried it further. Looks very similar to Tom Cleverley at the moment.
I want him to succeed here and it may be the case of needing a season to get used to surroundings, what the manager requires etc. I have faith he can become integral over time.
It’s like we’ve forgotten having to bring on Pereira or Lingard as bench options! VDB adds depth and so far from what I’ve seen, his bottom ceiling is comfortably far above the two names mentioned prior. It’s about building a squad too, not just a first XI.
My point is just that VDB has been no less convincing based on 3 games than Pogba has. Pogba's "better" performances when starting is probably limited to around 3 games too - he was really bad at the start of the season and even deeper when he started, e.g. vs Arsenal.
I said it's criminal though, because he wants out and it sends the wrong message for me. I don't like seeing a player start over the future when he's not looking any better and has disrespected the club. It's a small point though because we're 9 games unbeaten. That said, it's a point I'd only look to raise on a thread like this as its relevant.
I really hope he leaves the club as soon as possible. I still think that he'd be really good for the club when played. But it's really really clear now that Ole doesn't want him. So as a VDB fan i really want him to go and play somewhere else instead of slowly ruining his career on the bench here
People arguing that he's of the same level as Pogba are mad, Pogba is better at every single thing. I love Donny, he's a nice lad, but he's bang average.
Surely he was a better choice than Dan James today.
Wasn't the reason we bought him to REPLACE Bruno when we want to rest him?
Wasn't the reason we bought him to REPLACE Bruno when we want to rest him?
If he doesn’t play in either of the two cup games then Ole officially doesn’t rate him. That’s my opinion anyway.
Maybe he just hasn’t adjusted to the intensity of the PL or to the team style but for me he is really passive in everything he does. When he attacks it is without any real conviction, when he defends its the same thing. Honestly, I also dont think its a Man United thing as I watched a couple of his games for Netherlands and he is was as invisible in those as he is with us.
Not sure what we saw in him but I am annoyed that we chose the cheaper option between Grealish and him.
60 million + Beek for Grealish. 
I would have taken Rashford off as he looked shagged, but the thinking with James was clearly to hit them on the counter with his pace when Villa went looking for a winner.
Not sure what we've seen from Van de Beek to suggest he'd have been in asset in what that game had become.
I find it so weird that anyone is a fan of a player, rather than the club.
he will get his chances, and if he has to wait, then so what. Other players are playing better than him - you need a competitive squad to be successful.
Needs a rest, his arse must be permanently numb as the blood flow ceased reaching his cheeks weeks ago.
It's early days. Might be another Fred situation. If VDB shows enough, his time will come.
Not at all. As a Dutchie Ajax is my favorite club and United my favorite foreign club. So when my favorite Ajax player joined United i thought that it was a match made in heaven(at least for me), but things turned out to be a huge mismatch.
Also i find it so weird that anyone will think he'll get his chances, because he isn't gonna get it anymore, last few matches where the perfect time to get him some minutes. Besides people think he's a young talent with barely any playtime. He has played over 200 matches including an EL final and a CL semi-final. Sure it's a big step up from the Eredivisie, but his performances in the CL against teams on that higher level have been really good. So not that much adjusting needed.
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give it at least until the end of the season, rather than a few months. Players need time to settle.
Patience is key.
It was obvious to see why James came on instead of VDB today. Probably not the best example. Villa were pushing for an equaliser so James pace on the counter was always going to be dangerous. Also, he offers a lot more defensively and has the pace and energy to track back on Cash who kept bombing forward.
He’s a good player just not sure how he fits in, with benefit of hindsight I think Ole would prefer a different signing. Ole was intending to start Bruno, Pogba and one other in midfield as his first choice so DVB seemed like a sensible signing. He‘s ended up playing Fred, Mct and Bruno which makes DVB an unnecessary signing and someone like Bissouma would have been more useful.
He's not playing because he's not currently better than any other midfield option and we've barely had any injuries. We've also had very few games where we have been comfortable to just 'give him minutes'.
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