Okay, so you must be a WUM. Putting you on ignore, life is too short.
34
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Bruno had one player ahead of him per your graph. Van de Beek had three. It’s a comparison between the two because they’re in direct competition and why I said he needs to do more, or show he can play elsewhere to play more. I didn’t say he was a bad player.
Show me what constitutes a key pass in that video?
He was not brilliant. You’ll run out of superlatives for actual great performances if you throw them out like that.
He put Martial through on one occasion....
What did he do wrong? The whole team was brilliant. Maybe you need to rewatch the game to realise how good Donny actually was in game.
He even covered the most distance and he was on the pitch what 67 minutes?
PERFECT for squad depth. And it worked a treat last night with Bruno coming on after we had controlled the game enough and left them leggy and leaving spaces.
Tactically I'd have dropped VdB in a bit to give Martial and Greenwood more space to run in behind like Greenwood could for the goal.
Do you realize that players are not static on the field? Those are average positions and they clearly show that more United players were in the opponent's half in the second half of the game. Which means more options for ANY player to pass the ball FORWARD.
No video. Whoscored.com match stats.
Maybe I put it wrong. He doesn't do much when we don't have the ball. His pressing is very soft. He is very useful to beat pressing and that's it for now, but he will do better I'm sure.
That's the problem I see with him. His impact on the game is very... minimalistic.
Van de Beek had 39 touches in 68'. Pogba 57 in 81', Fred 72, Matic 41 in 63', even McTominay 25 in 23'. It's a low number for a midfielder. The only player who was on similar level was Wan Bissaka (40 in 81') and Greenwood (22 in 63').
The result was brilliant. Performance wasn't. We couldn't get out of our own half for a longer moment.
Donny is the kind of player who looks very good if players are making the right moves around him, otherwise his impact will be quite limited. Which is fine in some cases, but I'm not overly excited at this point.
Some people think Martial is average because he is not a fox in the box goal scorer.
I can see the same people doubting Van De Beeks ability due to his inability to be as creative as Ozil or Bruno Fernandes.
What Van De Beek does is make our game quick and interlink both the attack and the midfield. He makes the run as a forward as well as a midfielder and has passes on to bring others in to play.
The people who say Bruno is better because he is creative - wait until Van De Beek plays with Bruno - he will make Bruno even better than he already is.
I can see the same people doubting Van De Beeks ability due to his inability to be as creative as Ozil or Bruno Fernandes.
What Van De Beek does is make our game quick and interlink both the attack and the midfield. He makes the run as a forward as well as a midfielder and has passes on to bring others in to play.
The people who say Bruno is better because he is creative - wait until Van De Beek plays with Bruno - he will make Bruno even better than he already is.
Oh stop it, Donny is nothing special. Never has been.
What? for 20 mins, you have to expect a quality team like Leipzig will have some sort of pressure on us, even that we hardly conceded any clear cut chances.
Tbh as I said it's too early to judge him but saying he's been impressive is a bit too much imo.
Even if his job was to retain possession and link play then imo it was fine only. Because if it's the case then Pogba should be the main creator and I didn't see him supporting or giving the ball to Pogba much. It maybe a bit harsh but imo keeping possession for the sake of keeping it is never a good sign of a good attacking midfielder. He should be able to keep the ball and move it forward. Either to a forward if his job was to create, or to the main creator if his job was to support. I didn't see neither.
Again, it's too early to judge him now so I'd stay skeptical. However tbh unfortunately I haven't seen anything impressive about him yet. Apart from his workrate.
Even if his job was to retain possession and link play then imo it was fine only. Because if it's the case then Pogba should be the main creator and I didn't see him supporting or giving the ball to Pogba much. It maybe a bit harsh but imo keeping possession for the sake of keeping it is never a good sign of a good attacking midfielder. He should be able to keep the ball and move it forward. Either to a forward if his job was to create, or to the main creator if his job was to support. I didn't see neither.
Again, it's too early to judge him now so I'd stay skeptical. However tbh unfortunately I haven't seen anything impressive about him yet. Apart from his workrate.
Sure, but "brilliant" this game was not. "Some sort of pressure" is an euphemism in that case, they pinned us back for 20mins.
It was a good game with brilliant result, that's it.
Am I watching a different game? Donny is always moving. He literally never stops. Do people only count "moving" as lung-busting sprints off the ball? Donny is perpetually dropping into pockets for the pass, being ignored, then dropping out the pocket to move into another one in the direction of where the ball was passed. He's always showing for the ball. How are we going to blame Donny for players not having the ability to pass through lines to him? Ajax never struggled to find him constantly. Never struggled to play it through lines to him. It's not Donny, we just have players who are more comfortable going long to Rashford or square to Shaw than they are sliding balls between lines. That's fine, it's working recently, but the last player I'm gonna pick out is Donny right now given our inconsistencies in pass percentages.
Sorry I didnt mean that Bruno is not better because he clearly is but people calling Van De Beek average I dont agree with because he will be a specialist at what he does
And on average Van de Beek had more players ahead of him than Bruno.
vDB is the newest player in the block, so of course he is more comparable to slice bread.
Lets see him play a bit more and see how he will be viewed as a player.
He obviously could do no wrong right now. That what was a bang average performance is being called brilliant by some in this thread says it all.
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He’ll have a role to play no doubt. But for now he is rightly back up. And last night showed the reason why. Bruno is just considerably more productive.
What did he do that was brilliant? Come on, no sane person can watch that and call it brilliant. Rashford was brilliant. Van de Beek was alright.
442 diamond with Fred as the DM might work? Against good attacking sides we need to be very disciplined though and the CB's need to bring their A game
People who don’t rate Donny should approach another sport because it’s impossible to not appreciate his God-given footballing talents. So assured in possession yet so fantastic off the ball, both offensively and defensively.
A well written comment on a YouTube analysis clip regarding the win yesterday.
“United with Van De Beek at the head cut off the middle of the park to push Leipzig into dead zones on the outside flank where the side line became the 12th man for United. Did you notice how many throw ins Leipzig had--couldn't find or sustain momentum. They simply could not get around Van De Beek up top.
He ran 10 K in 67 mins and Fred behind, who ran 10.5 K in 90 mins. Not only did Van De Beek disrupt RBL constant pressure and flash double-team tackling on the defensive end.. but he also broke Leipzig's press time and again with unreal pin point passing where he would find open space and got United extra time to re/build up possession.
Van De Beek played #10 as only he can as CAPM. Central Attacking Pressing Midfielder. It takes such fundamentally schooled discipline to play that way and to pass with such expansive technical ability to deliver passes so spot on. This type of lead player enabled Fred, Pogba, Matic, Martial to play their roles to perfection. His confidence on the ball spread like wildfire thru the side.”
But yeah, according to the couch experts on RedCafe did not see him score five worldies so he must be shit.
A well written comment on a YouTube analysis clip regarding the win yesterday.
“United with Van De Beek at the head cut off the middle of the park to push Leipzig into dead zones on the outside flank where the side line became the 12th man for United. Did you notice how many throw ins Leipzig had--couldn't find or sustain momentum. They simply could not get around Van De Beek up top.
He ran 10 K in 67 mins and Fred behind, who ran 10.5 K in 90 mins. Not only did Van De Beek disrupt RBL constant pressure and flash double-team tackling on the defensive end.. but he also broke Leipzig's press time and again with unreal pin point passing where he would find open space and got United extra time to re/build up possession.
Van De Beek played #10 as only he can as CAPM. Central Attacking Pressing Midfielder. It takes such fundamentally schooled discipline to play that way and to pass with such expansive technical ability to deliver passes so spot on. This type of lead player enabled Fred, Pogba, Matic, Martial to play their roles to perfection. His confidence on the ball spread like wildfire thru the side.”
But yeah, according to the couch experts on RedCafe did not see him score five worldies so he must be shit.
I really like him and think he is an excellent signing, but he will definitely divide opinions amongst fans here.
I was slightly skeptical regarding VDB when we signed him. Now, having watched him in our team I think it will be a great deal. His qualities (press resistant, clever off-the-ball movement to always find space, clever one-touch passing as well as final balls) fits in really well when playing with either Bruno or Pogba and with our frontline. Having these three quality midfielders for 2 positions will be brilliant for us for the season. And of course, he won't provide the same level of output as Bruno or drive from midfield as Pogba but he can provide high levels as each of their replacement.
And it might be overkill, but I do want to see all three of them in yesterday's diamond formation. The amount of creativity on the field could be a sight to behold.
And it might be overkill, but I do want to see all three of them in yesterday's diamond formation. The amount of creativity on the field could be a sight to behold.
I give up. You do you, dude.
That’s what happens when you can’t argue facts.
how do you think he secures a regular starting position?People who don’t rate Donny should approach another sport because it’s impossible to not appreciate his God-given footballing talents. So assured in possession yet so fantastic off the ball, both offensively and defensively.
A well written comment on a YouTube analysis clip regarding the win yesterday.
“United with Van De Beek at the head cut off the middle of the park to push Leipzig into dead zones on the outside flank where the side line became the 12th man for United. Did you notice how many throw ins Leipzig had--couldn't find or sustain momentum. They simply could not get around Van De Beek up top.
He ran 10 K in 67 mins and Fred behind, who ran 10.5 K in 90 mins. Not only did Van De Beek disrupt RBL constant pressure and flash double-team tackling on the defensive end.. but he also broke Leipzig's press time and again with unreal pin point passing where he would find open space and got United extra time to re/build up possession.
Van De Beek played #10 as only he can as CAPM. Central Attacking Pressing Midfielder. It takes such fundamentally schooled discipline to play that way and to pass with such expansive technical ability to deliver passes so spot on. This type of lead player enabled Fred, Pogba, Matic, Martial to play their roles to perfection. His confidence on the ball spread like wildfire thru the side.”
But yeah, according to the couch experts on RedCafe did not see him score five worldies so he must be shit.
Nothing like creating an argument that isn’t happening. Who said he was shit?
I showed you facts that you decided to interpret to fit your agenda. I don't care to argue or convince Internet knowitalls, so, have yourself a cake.
You showed me something that proved me right. Van de Beek had more options ahead of him than Bruno. Simple, undeniable fact. Come back when you understand what that means.
I love Bruno and this has been argued against me alot - but I dont see what we would lose by bringing Bruno to CM.
Look at the diamond - was Pogba deep as he is in a double pivot? Not for me, The guy easily got forward and assisted Greenwood from a AM position. This is something we hardly get to see but ultimately I feel Bruno Fernandes can do the same.
As Neville said, if De Bryune and Silva could play in midfield then I dont see why Pogba and Bruno cant. Brun has the work ethic to make runs to AM all game whilst he can drop to as deep as CDM positions as we see now. The guy wants to be involved.
Our only problem is that we need a CDM that can do the dirty business by themselves. I'm not ruling anyone out yet crom previous struggles because a diamond means we have more midfielders anyway.
VDB at the tip of of the diamond will open up spaces for the front line whilst he himself will be setting up the midfielders like Bruno and Pogba with quick passes to allow them to take a shot or make the necessary creative pass to the front line. VDB will be the confuser for the opposition - wondering whether he is a midfielder or forward because he will be playing like both.
Hopefully one of Fred, Matic of Mctomminay can do the DM by themselves because they aren't really by themselves anymore, they will have Bruno, Pogba and VDB dropping in to deep midfielders position to help. If it doesnt we just need a new young CDM to make such a formation work and I can see why we are targeting someone like Zakaria for example. Having a player like Zakaria or Koopmeiners or Rice or Phillips will have us playing a false CB at the bottom of the diamond whilst having a false 9 on the top of the diamond with either VDB or Martial.
When Bruno was playing he had Cavani, Rashford and Martial upfront.
When VDB was playing as a false 9 he just had Martial and Greenwood.
Not when Bruno came on and instantly changed the game.
Why in the absolute feck do we have to compare him to his team mates? Him and Bruno play at the same club you absolute twats. They are different type of players and, unsurprisingly, they have different roles to play over a potential 60 game season. Anyway I thought he was pretty good tonight considering it was his first start. Reckon there is much more to come from him particularly against teams that drop deep, which has been a problem for us quite a few times.
You chose to ignore the passing stats, the context of the game and any other piece of logic or evidence so consider this my last response and waste of my time. Good luck in life.
tbh and this might not be a popular opinion but I dont really want to see Pogba VDB and Bruno playing in the midfield together . What I have enjoyed and think could be something game changing for us is the change in gear when making changes on the 60 minutes or so mark.
V RBL both VDB , Fred and And Greenwood worked their socks off covering some amount of ground then we change it as RBL start to tire with Rashford and Bruno and we literally tear them apart . This for me is where we can move forward, rather than trying to get all the best players shoe horned , starters and finishers, and who more apt to introduce the Dawn of the super sub than the best super sub we probably ever had. Rotation and combinations are the way forward for me, Rashford and Cavani coming off a bench or Greenwood and Martial or any combination of that , Pogba has been excellent coming off the bench rotate him VDB and Bruno , Rotate Matic Fred and McT . We look way more Dangerous this way.
V RBL both VDB , Fred and And Greenwood worked their socks off covering some amount of ground then we change it as RBL start to tire with Rashford and Bruno and we literally tear them apart . This for me is where we can move forward, rather than trying to get all the best players shoe horned , starters and finishers, and who more apt to introduce the Dawn of the super sub than the best super sub we probably ever had. Rotation and combinations are the way forward for me, Rashford and Cavani coming off a bench or Greenwood and Martial or any combination of that , Pogba has been excellent coming off the bench rotate him VDB and Bruno , Rotate Matic Fred and McT . We look way more Dangerous this way.
Very sensible post. It is a game of 90 minutes with players being substituted for tactical reasons or injuries. The idea is to win the game in 90 mins and not in 10 mins. Ole got it perfectly right yesterday. Play and contain Leipzig and when they are tired hit them and kill them off. He had a different system early in the game and changed it later. Absolutely spot on. DVB played the game Ole wanted him to play. Not what we think he should play.
Because I used my eyes. Watch the highlights. Good luck with your eyesight.
Depends on the formation.
If Solkjaer goes with 4-2-3-1, he’s not playing ahead of Bruno and he’s not going to play in the midfield 2. If Solkjaer goes with a diamond, he’s probably on the bench against the top teams because I don’t think he gets in ahead of McTominay or Pogba. If we play against buses I think Solkjaer will go with him (if it’s a diamond), Fred and Pogba, with Bruno in front of them.
But if your asking me, I pretty much see him as a player that must play against the dross teams that comes to Old Trafford for a point. If you pay attention to his off the ball movement it’s as clear as sunlight that Donny will prove to be one of the best signings. He creates space and players like Rashford will capitulate on that.
But if we want Donny to put up numbers, then he’s a player that are dependent on his team mates to find him. Last night, there were a moment where Shaw could’ve put a simple diagonal pass and Donny would’ve been 1v1 against their defender, but Shaw did not read his run and he misplaced the pass. Small details that could be the difference in games.
The hype for this lad is some of the most ridiculous I can remember and is purely a result of the fact that he first came to most people's attention when Real Madrid were supposedly interested in him. They ultimately never made a move but people have continued to view him with this unrealistic aura. He can do a job for us like Scott McTominay can but a lot of people seem to think he's the new Thomas Muller and he's just not.
In span of whole season, there will by tiny number of games when we play all of Bruno, Pogba and Donny together. Don't see that as an issue.
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