Yes, but I mean if the players arent looking or aware , they should be told and train on it. How good the runs are is abit hard to tell since they dont try, but there has been a number of times where just keep passing sideways around the box instead. And it offers an alternative to it.
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Yes, but I mean if the players arent looking or aware , they should be told and train on it. How good the runs are is abit hard to tell since they dont try, but there has been a number of times where just keep passing sideways around the box instead. And it offers an alternative to it.
He's like the player equivalent of jazz. It's not the football he plays that's important; his genius in in the football he doesn't play.
You can't coach intelligence or awareness.
It seems like it's not Ole's purchase/wanting but the "excellent" scout system product. Just like Fred to Mou. Ole doesn't even bother to hide it, just by the amount of times he plays VDB for such a big (-ish) purchase. ANd also Ole seems confused on where to play him.
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Or maybe loan him to West Ham? 
Only a very poor and stupid manager would choose to start or sub on a player purely based on the transfer fee paid for him. Players take time to adapt to new surroundings, team mates and opponents. Donny came from a club with very different tactics and play style. There's nothing weird or worrisome in the way he has been used this season.
Just look at how Torres has been used by Pep this year.
VDB stats are 1,130 minutes in which he's played over 40 minutes 3 times and 90 minutes once.
Torres has played 1,675 minutes and has played over 60 minutes 10 times.
Not to mention DVB cost almost double the money.
And? What's your point?
I will also copy something I wrote in my previous post:
Only a very poor and stupid manager would choose to start or sub on a player purely based on the transfer fee paid for him.
My point is they haven't been used the same way at all and it is very worrying.
And only stupid managers buy players for large sums of money only not to play them.
I think you are falling victim to an assumption that players can play equally well and effective in every team and league. I would argue that for a well-oiled machine like Guardiola's City team, Torres has been used very sparsely. On the opposite spectrum, our team has been disrupted by injuries and is under constant pressure by fans and media to perform (which they have above my personal expectations for the season).
Donny has said himself that he expected this season to be about adaptation to his new club and league. I fully expect him to be much more involved next season.
On a similar note, I guess Guardiola is a stupid manager for paying £25.2m for Nathan Ake and playing him for a grand total of 665 minutes?
So even though pep has played Torres more, it's actually less because his team is a well oiled machine. Of course he will be more involved next year the guy has been given 40 plus minutes 3 times all year. We're Manchester United, we will always be under constant pressure.
Nathan Ake was injured for like 3 months and has played 90 minutes five games this year.
I've watched football for almost 30 years and can't recall a player being bought of this level (Starts for Ajax and Holland) who with a month or so of the season to go has only been given 90 minutes once.
Anyways you think this is normal, i think it's highly abnormal. Lets leave it there.
If a manager spent 40m on a player, logically he'd play him as much as possible to integrate him to the team. He's not a "young prospect player". He played 175 games for Ajax, a top European team. Also, Pep has so many other players to choose from, while Ole doesn't have the luxury.
If you see this as "nothing weird" how he's been used this season,
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Of course it's weird ... Ole not using him more is weird. Clearly not everything is ok with this transfer.
Ole can't afford to play him more because of the expectations to win. Not having an in-form striker, Pogba out for a significant part of the season, Rashford playing with injury and Donny being injured himself did not help to integrate him in the squad.If a manager spent 40m on a player, logically he'd play him as much as possible to integrate him to the team. He's not a "young prospect player". He played 175 games for Ajax, a top European team. Also, Pep has so many other players to choose from, while Ole doesn't have the luxury.
If you see this as "nothing weird" how he's been used this season,
Ole has a veto against each transfer in. If he knows he's not going to play DvdB why bring him here?
PS: I admit elsewhere, I said United need more quality in the squad, but I'd manage that with a 1st and 2nd 11. The 2nd 11 would play in easier games. Not something Ole's been doing. So if your answer is United need more quality then that's not a good enough answer by itself.
Precisely
What if said player turns out to be a dud? Happens all the time - is it always the managers fault? Or at some point do you question whether the players shows enough in training and the time he doesn’t have on the pitch?
I think in modern football it is close to impossible to play a second 11. Newly-built squads and teams in terms of style and tactics need to play together. Too much chopping and changing doesn't help. That's one of the big problems Alex Telles has, for example. He is not used to the rest of the players around him, and the lack of sync between them hurts our progression from the left.
I think Ole definitely likes Donny but sees the same thing we see, he is not ready for the PL. He is not yet in sync with his teammates, they don't see his runs, he doesn't make the runs they expect him to make, etc. All of that will improve with more time. Unfortunately, we won't have proper pre-season again this summer, because of the Euros so I really don't know what to expect.
Find me something similar to DVBs situation since it happens all the time. 100 plus appearances for a top club and country, moves for a big fee and with a month to go in the season has been given 40 plus minutes 3 times.
Evidence - who tried playing this 2nd-11 system but failed with it? I'm talking about a 2nd-11 with 11 players who all play "together" - so they get used to each other; just as you said. Likewise the 1st 11 all play together. With injuries, a 2nd-11 player can move up to replace 1st-11, and, if needed, the other direction too, for the same reasons. So instead of 4, 5, 6 players being over-played fewer are.
Shaw, AWB, Pogba, Rashford, Bruno, Maguire - all over-played?
Yeah but that second eleven is going to lose majority of games. And the club cannot afford that.
He’s not creative player, his speciality is actually when without the ball. Creating space for others and finding space for himself. On the ball, his speciality is link up play. Whenever he plays in that no 10, he’s less effective because that’s normally when we rested Bruno means there is no creativity to give the service when he makes run and find spaces. All those quick short passes he made turned into useless. I think if we have Sancho, he will be benefit to play next to Sancho if we want to rest Bruno.
Did Ajax, a club with far less money than United, get a development squad, who play in a weaker league, to the Champions League quarter final a couple of seasons ago? I say "development" squad because they are nearly all either home-grown or brought from smaller clubs.
United lose games because they over-play key players.
I haven't watched enough Ajax games to comment with any conviction but I'm pretty sure they played their strongest XI in the CL and that was the reason they got that far into the competition. Whether they play a weaker XI (or a second XI) in Eredivisie, I can't say. But if you compare the strength of competition of the Eredivisie with PL, I think that answers the question why they could and we can't win games with a "B team".
Whether you think Ajax's strongest XI is a development squad or a weak squad, I don't think it is relevant since their results are proof enough.
I know this is 95% bullsh*t but one thing I do wonder is if Ole is slowly starting to prepare the mentality that our subs can be strong and of bigger value a bit like City.
Whilst there is people who dont rate VDB anymore than an average player - some do see him as a player that is capable of more and deserves more game time.
VDB doesnt particularly look unhappy when he plays those 10 minutes too.
Again this is most probably wrong but City just have this immense squad that no one can compete with. What will happen to Lindelof when we get a new world class CB? Lindelof becomes a very good sub option and he will have to understand how game time comes.
I think about players like Grealish and how people dont think he can fit in to our club due to the players we have in Rashford and Bruno Fernandes. However does/did Bernardo Silva get this amazing amount of game time on or off the bench when competing with David Silva, De Bruyne, Mahrez or Foden? I think about players like Martial, James, Mata, Cavani, Matic (more importantly the need for a CDM) plus the players on loan like Pereira and Lingard and I dont see how we couldnt replace all of them like for like and come up with less amount of players and of better quality.
I know money has a lot to do with it, but if we still slowly build up this mentality that our subs is an extension of our first team than a part of our bench then we can and should be able to get players like VDB or Grealish fighting for various spots in our first team.
Whilst there is people who dont rate VDB anymore than an average player - some do see him as a player that is capable of more and deserves more game time.
VDB doesnt particularly look unhappy when he plays those 10 minutes too.
Again this is most probably wrong but City just have this immense squad that no one can compete with. What will happen to Lindelof when we get a new world class CB? Lindelof becomes a very good sub option and he will have to understand how game time comes.
I think about players like Grealish and how people dont think he can fit in to our club due to the players we have in Rashford and Bruno Fernandes. However does/did Bernardo Silva get this amazing amount of game time on or off the bench when competing with David Silva, De Bruyne, Mahrez or Foden? I think about players like Martial, James, Mata, Cavani, Matic (more importantly the need for a CDM) plus the players on loan like Pereira and Lingard and I dont see how we couldnt replace all of them like for like and come up with less amount of players and of better quality.
I know money has a lot to do with it, but if we still slowly build up this mentality that our subs is an extension of our first team than a part of our bench then we can and should be able to get players like VDB or Grealish fighting for various spots in our first team.
We’ve all seen how Lingard has been transformed since he went to West Ham. He was pretty quiet the first few games until he had a chance to settle into the team.
I wonder if VDB would improve if he got a few starts, not sure I’d risk it right away though? Maybe once top 4 is completely guaranteed and/or City have mathematically won the league, it’d be worth starting him for the remaining games to see if he shows any glimpses of his potential.
I wonder if VDB would improve if he got a few starts, not sure I’d risk it right away though? Maybe once top 4 is completely guaranteed and/or City have mathematically won the league, it’d be worth starting him for the remaining games to see if he shows any glimpses of his potential.
Now that we’re in control of a top four finish and have a trophy waiting for us I hope Ole starts Donny in several of our remaining PL matches. Not only would it do wonders for keeping Bruno fresh, it would give us a chance to evaluate what Donny can really do if given a proper run of matches.
Of course he would. NO player plays at their best with just 10/15 minutes here or there, or 1 match every month. It's just not possible to build up match sharpness without a run of a few games.
He has already shown a higher level playing for Ajax in the CL. It's just about getting confidence, fully fit and sharp. The biggest issue for him is he's got a whirlwind of a player in Fernandes ahead of him. Ole obviously loves high workrate players, and that doesn't come naturally to DVB.
Is it as simple as VdB being Bruno's understudy, but Bruno simply hasn't been injured? When they're both fit, Bruno plays.
If that is the case, I don't see it being good for VdB's career, but I don't see how else you can explain his lack of play time.
If that is the case, I don't see it being good for VdB's career, but I don't see how else you can explain his lack of play time.
He shoudl adapt his game the same way Herrera, Valencia, Park and many players before him adapted theirs. He may simply not be good enough technically to start for us but if he works hard on his ball winning abilities and hit the gym a bit he could be a decent partner to Fred imo in a double pivot. He may not be as strong as McTominay but surely he´s got more positional sense and anticipation than him and better acceleration over the first few meters.
Not saying he´s completely done as a no10/CAM for us but he should be given run of games deeper because McT, Matic there seem to be the biggest weakness while Pogba showing he´s of better used further forward as well. Perhaps we may need to waituntil next preseason when we can experiment more or when City win the title and we secure second spot to make some changes form Ole. Understandably he´s pretty pragmatic in his selection right now.
Not saying he´s completely done as a no10/CAM for us but he should be given run of games deeper because McT, Matic there seem to be the biggest weakness while Pogba showing he´s of better used further forward as well. Perhaps we may need to waituntil next preseason when we can experiment more or when City win the title and we secure second spot to make some changes form Ole. Understandably he´s pretty pragmatic in his selection right now.
Donny with a hit and run. Taking zero responsibility on and off the pitch.
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Hopefully gets a start tonight.
Him.and Diallo for Rashford and Bruno would be great.
Should be. Either in CM or CAM, absolutely zero reason not to play him.
I'd even give him a chance off the LW with Telles overlapping. I look forward to seeing him play, he and Greenwood had a decent chemistry going last time out.
Aye Diallo getting a start would be great. I’d rest Rashford though, he’s playing half fit as it is and if there’s any game to give him a break it would be this one.
Yeah hopefully as you say there’s absolutely no reason not to. Aye him and Greenwood seemed to click quite well, I’d love to see Donny, Mata and Bruno together, think they’d all be on each other’s wavelength and the interplay would be great.
would have loved to have seen more of Mata and DVB together.
If a manager spent 40m on a player, logically he'd play him as much as possible to integrate him to the team. He's not a "young prospect player". He played 175 games for Ajax, a top European team. Also, Pep has so many other players to choose from, while Ole doesn't have the luxury.
If you see this as "nothing weird" how he's been used this season,
I'm fairly sure that there is a reasonable amount of integrating into the team going on in the location pictured below.
DVDB and Mata would get slaughtered by any opposition. It would work in a testimonial, but not a competitive game.
Thank you @Tom Cato
Yeah if you look closely you can see the integratingI'm fairly sure that there is a reasonable amount of integrating into the team going on in the location pictured below.
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