fergieisold
New Member
The difference when Fred and Bruno came one was amazing. VDB is a good player but he's slow, can't close down a man like the other do.
He is a number 10 (and he always was), just a different kind of a number 10 that we need. And even if he was the right fit for us stylistically, we still have, quite frankly, a better player starting.He's not a 10. He frankly never was. He's a clean passer but will never be that ambitious.
Think it should seriously be considered to play him deeper in midfield.
Yes. He needs a run of games. He is a technically good player.Spot on. He will play his part. He's a possession king but he just needs to get up to the speed of the league. Liverpool was a big ask and he did go missing for large chunks. But I would give him another start against Sheffield. I think he'll be great around their box with all the possession we'll have.
That’s the easiest part. We purchased him for depth.I just can't understand why we purchased him.
Not saying that we should change the whole team. Only saying that buying him to play in the current positions was a huge mistake. If changing tactics was the plan and his arrival would help with it, then it would've been a great signing. But now not so much. It's like buying a winger when you play 5-3-2Why would we change our whole team to suit van de beek, if it stopped suiting our main attackers
The young version of Mata was head and shoulders above Van De Beek.Summing him up so far, he's the younger version of Mata.
Clearly has techniques and brains to play in a well drilled system, but wrong for the type of quick counter attacking football that we play.
I think the very fact that he suits different football is why he was signed, lots of games last season we needed a goal Vs deep teams and players were tired and we had no bench. It hasn't been the case as much this year but I think in a situation like that he has valueNot saying that we should change the whole team. Only saying that buying him to play in the current positions was a huge mistake. If changing tactics was the plan and his arrival would help with it, then it would've been a great signing. But now not so much. It's like buying a winger when you play 5-3-2
Maybe it really was the plan, but that plan was ditched because the results are too good(as weird as it sounds ).
He is like budget Muller. IMO he will be good player to have against deep defensive lines as we play most of the game in final third and his flicks and quick passes will help in unlocking defenses. In the games against strong teams where you have space, he isn't good enough as he doesn't use the space to release the pass. He is more of a supporting player to the better creative player next to him.
He didn't do anything today? I seem to remember the pass after pogba won the ball back being played by VDB...
Nothing strange about my post other than its not a negatron post like we are used to from most people on this forum.
Given the lack of game time to come in and play how he did against a midfield of Thiago and Miller was brilliant. If he had more game time I'd expect he would be even better. What's strange about that? Did you even watch the game?
This. Looks neat and tidy but there’s no personality or authority to his play which to be honest is not that surprising. He is the definition of a system player. He’s not actually really suited to our style because of that reason.He needs to be doing a lot more. Some clever touches here and there and clearly good in possession but he’s got to make more of an impact on the game and assert some authority. I’m not expecting Bruno as they’re very different players but I am expecting some kind of end product.
I’d keep him in against Sheffield, mind you. Give him another chance to make a mark and get some numbers on the board.
As depth for the #10, Pereira and Lingard get involved far more than Van de Beek does whenever he plays there.That’s the easiest part. We purchased him for depth.
It’s critically important to have players on the bench who are better than Pereira and Lingard - and VDB is exactly this sort of player.
Agree, and I have went with that in my lineup prediction for Sheffield United. Would be a classy midfield duo, though I think Ole will start with Fred instead of DonnyI would like to see him play in the midfield pivot with Matic. Realistically, that's the only pairing which includes Donny that I could see working because Ole's not gonna play him alongside Fred (the duo would be too short) or Pogba (too offensive).
Sheffield United would be the perfect chance to try them (weak opposition, Matic has been rested for a while and Pogba needs a break before Arsenal).
Really hope Ole gives it a shot
Hes always passive and invisible playing as a 10. Can probably go back and look at his touch count in games hes played as a 10 compared to a deeper role. Yesterday he played 65 minutes, and had just 23 touches. Bruno played 25 minutes and had 21 touches. The only players with fewer touches in the game for both clubs were the subs, due to minutes played. He just doesn't get involved when he plays as a #10, he doesn't know how to play the position. We need to stop putting him there as its essentially a waste of a spot. As a deeper mid, different story. He has the raw attributes to succeed there and in his limited time he showed much more of a willingness to get on the ball and move it around. But let's stop with the Donny #10 experiment, it doesn't work and will never work. It's a waste of a played. Id rather play Lingard there.
Ajax #10 is not the same as United #10. More like an 8 here. Worked like a charm with Tadic as a false 9.Van de Beek was very successful as a #10 for Ajax. However, he still needs to adapt to the way we play as opposed to the style Ajax plays.
As others have noticed, Van de Beek at #10 is closer to Thomas Muller than Bruno Fernandes. He's excellent at finding space in and around the box, making the late run on the blindside and scoring goals. What Van de Beek won't do is become Holland's Juan Roman Riquelme. Expecting him to dominate the ball, set the tempo of our attacks and create tons of opportunities for others is expecting him to be something he isn't. Even when he was playing as an #8 last season he didn't play the position in that way. He was neat, he was tidy and he created the kind of passing triangles that Ajax like to use to advance up the field. That's not Man Utd football though. We're a team that's happy to use 4 passes to get up field rather than 14 e.g. our first two goals yesterday.
What Van de Beek offers is depth, variation and quality in the box. We saw that in the opening month of the season where he scored on his debut, then forced the issue late on at Brighton that earned us a corner that led to the penalty we won from. Those are things that, sadly, Lingard and Andreas just don't offer. Believe me, I'd love it if they did cos I love to see our academy thrive. However, Van de Beek is a massive level up from them. As those early season examples show Donny's an attacking midfield option you can bring on to help you get a goal. That's not something you can say about Lingard or Andreas.
Negatrons. If we banned people like RAWK does half the posters on here would have been banned tears ago.
Ajax #10 is not the same as United #10. More like an 8 here. Worked like a charm with Tadic as a false 9.
It must be hard for him because he's essentially the replacement for Bruno, but he couldn't be more different. You're point here is accurate, but not necessarily through his lack of awareness or ability.Just watched the highlights. Here's a summary of his performance:
09:38 - Makes a dinked pass over Thiago, for Greenwood to run onto on the right. Then makes a run to the edge of the penalty area for a high percentage opportunity. Greenwood opts for a lower percentage shot at the near post, and keeper saves. DvB jumps up and down in rage (exaggerating), and Cavani shouts at Greenwood, pointing to DvB's position.
12:53 - Gets in the box for a tap in if keeper parries a shot to his right. Greenwood shoots off target. DvB and Cavani a little pissed, which commentator also points out.
16:53 - Makes space in the centre of the box, to set up a possible shooting opportunity for Rashford. Rashford's ball to him is intercepted, and goes out for a corner.
18:00 - Pressing Fabinho half-heartedly who passes to Wijnaldum, who gives it to Firmino, who creates the goal. Pressing from the front so not really at fault. Note: Dean Henderson really made himself big for the goal, Salah's finish was world class.
25:00 - Pogba does really well to win the ball at the edge of our box. DvB is alert and knocks the ball towards Rashford. Rashford produces a pass somewhat reminiscent of Bruno to find Greenwood, who having had a few sighters, puts it away. Might have not been so confident if he hadn't taken a couple of pops at goal already, somewhat justifying that selfishness can be a good trait in a striker.
27:24 - Great opportunity as he points to exactly where he wants it played, andruns onto the pass from Rashford. Pushes it to the right with the outside of his foot expecting Allison to slide into him, but the keeper just sits down on the floor instead. Not a penalty. If he had tried to lob the ball over Allison, Cavani would probably have managed to bundle it in at the far post.
40:00 - First to the ball after Fabinho fouls Greenwood. Alert to the situation. Referee blows for a foul since DvB wasn't in a particularly threatening situation. But if Cavani was onside, then he was unmarked between two defenders for a quick cross. DvB had taken a touch and looked up to spot Cavani.
43:00 - First time pass to Shaw sets up a great crossing opportunity. Parried away by keeper, and Mctominay shoots into a crowd.
My observations:
The key takeaway for me is that if we had a winger on the right, instead of a converted striker, he definitely picks out Cavani or VdB instead of shooting. That would have put a very different complexion on the game and assessment of VdB's performance.
The people who say that the game is passing him by are...not too far off.
He doesn't seem to have too many defensive responsibility, so when we're out of possession, he doesn't really get involved. But when we are in an attacking phase, then he is always in the thick of the action. On another day, he comes away with a goal or a pre-assist.
He is technically quite good. Even in the buildup of our second goal, he received the throw-in from Shaw in a crowded space, and laid it off to Pogba.
So at his most basic, he circulates the ball, and keeps everything ticking. At his best he makes runs into the box, looking for shooting opportunities, first time balls out wide, and one-twos.
Definitely looks short of confidence, and probably needs a run of games to get that back. When we transition to a more possession based game then we might see him performing consistently, rather than in just the attacking phases.
Doesn't get into the side ahead of Bruno and Pogba, so a run of games might be hard to come by.