Donald Trump - All things impeachment.... | Acquitted in the Senate

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Beachryan said:
And no one cares. So much worse than Watergate,or anything really. Potentially knocking off an ambassador for personal gain? Good lord.
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Probably end up much like the Cheney/Valerie Plame scandal. Fox News will spin it, hate talk radio will spin it, and right-wing echo chambers will create their own version. Meanwhile, probably time a GOP member opens up another Benghazi investigation.
 
I caught a bit of that Parnas guy interview last night, does he have proof of the stuff he said?
 
maniak said:
I caught a bit of that Parnas guy interview last night, does he have proof of the stuff he said?
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What do you mean by proof ?

His testimony would simply be used to corroborate what other people who previously testified have said.
 
Raoul said:
What do you mean by proof ?

His testimony would simply be used to corroborate what other people who previously testified have said.
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He has proof. He's apparently able to back up every thing he has claimed so far with evidence. SMS, Whatsapp, Email, Flight records... you name it. It all corroborates the details of his allegations which themselves are corroborating the testimonies during the impeachment process.
 
Pexbo said:
He has proof. He's apparently able to back up every thing he has claimed so far with evidence. SMS, Whatsapp, Email, Flight records... you name it. It all corroborates the details of his allegations which themselves are corroborating the testimonies during the impeachment process.
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Good point.
 
I ave been ill for a couple of days so haven't followed the news as much.
Trump's legal team's strategy is that "abuse of power is not impeachable"...am I getting this right?
 
Adisa said:
The proposed rules by McConnell are a disgrace.
This thing is a farce.
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Yep, which is why....
Adisa said:
I ave been ill for a couple of days so haven't followed the news as much.
Trump's legal team's strategy is that "abuse of power is not impeachable"...am I getting this right?
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...he's employed a bunch of TV lawyers. They have absolutely zero work to do in the court room, McConnell is making damn sure of that. They're working on the court of public opinion once again and doing their best to gaslight the nation that Trump basically cannot abuse his power because his power is all encompassing. It's just a rewording of Nixon's "Well, when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal."
 
Pexbo said:
Yep, which is why....

...he's employed a bunch of TV lawyers. They have absolutely zero work to do in the court room, McConnell is making damn sure of that. They're working on the court of public opinion once again and doing their best to gaslight the nation that Trump basically cannot abuse his power because his power is all encompassing. It's just a rewording of Nixon's "Well, when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal."
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40% approve of him after 3 years of daily feckups. Thousands cheer his incoherent ramblings about dishwashers. They really don't have to try too hard to win in the 'court of public opinion'.
 
Adisa said:
Nancy Pelosi once again has her arse handed to her.
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Yep she’s fecked it up completely and is handing McConnell and Trump the win she said she would refuse them.

I refuse to believe that Pelosi and Schumer are that incompetent. They are complicit at this point, everyone knew what McConnell and Trump wanted them to do and they did it. Slow clap a mirror, Pelosi.
 
Pexbo said:
Yep she’s fecked it up completely and is handing McConnell and Trump the win she said she would refuse them.

I refuse to believe that Pelosi and Schumer are that incompetent. They are complicit at this point, everyone knew what McConnell and Trump wanted them to do and they did it. Slow clap a mirror, Pelosi.
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I told you back then where you were claiming that 'she has played it perfectly, and will force McConnell to accept her rules' that there is nothing she could do about it, and will send the articles without a deal with McConnell.

She played it badly when she rushed the impeachment. The subpoenaed should have been forced, instead of now crying how the Republicans don't want witnesses (which would essentially mean the Republicans actually trying to force subpoenas that Democrats in the house refused to).

Providing that McConnell manages to keep the Republicans united, there is nothing the Democrats can do. The hope is that Collins, Murkowski, Romney, and Gardner go against McConnell's orders (and Manchin, Sinema, and Jones actually vote with Democrats), but I don't know if this will happen (Romney is all talk (like Jeff Flake was) but in the end votes on party lines, Gardner can be a wild card, I expect both Collins and Murkowsi voting for witnesses assuming that the vote goes in the floor). Maybe the best we can expect is a deal from those 4 with McConnell to allow some limited witnesses. I also expect all Republicans to exonerate Trump, with Manchin and possibly Sinema joining them (Doug Jones will likely vote with Democrats, cause his philosophy seems to be 'to hell with the political consequences, I do what I think is right').

With the results of this being known already, I think the best is if there is a fast trial, so Bernie and Warren can go campaigning. Otherwise, the only winners of this might be Buttigieg and Biden (providing that he and his son are not called in the trial). And it is a very big advantage for them campaigning while Sanders is stuck in DC.
 
Doug Jones has no chance of reelection in Alabama anyways unless he runs against that creep again. He has no incentive to play vote bank politics with his vote.
 
Revan said:
I told you back then where you were claiming that 'she has played it perfectly, and will force McConnell to accept her rules' that there is nothing she could do about it, and will send the articles without a deal with McConnell.
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Republicans are desperate to have this wrapped up before the State of The Union. She could have delayed sending the articles.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
Doug Jones has no chance of reelection in Alabama anyways unless he runs against that creep again. He has no incentive to play vote bank politics with his vote.
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To be fair, he voted against Kavanaugh too and seems from the beginning to not give a shit about trying to appeal to everyone. In most of the polls he is losing, but still within the margin, so I think he is gonna give a good fight in reelection (but hard to see him winning). He also might be auditioning for a cabinet role.

Democrats can win senate positions in deep-red states. Manchin won relatively easily in the reddest of them all, despite that he was the most targetted Democrat in the election. And (I know, not the same thing), Dems won the gubernatorial race in Kentucky. Still, hard to see him winning, but I think he has some chance (maybe 20-30%).
 
Adisa said:
Republicans are desperate to have this wrapped up before the State of The Union. She could have delayed sending the articles.
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Hard to justify delaying them when Democrats rushed to impeach him cause it 'was an urgent matter of national security'. I think they have done their polling and have realized that not sending the articles will harm them in the election.
 
Revan said:
I told you back then where you were claiming that 'she has played it perfectly, and will force McConnell to accept her rules' that there is nothing she could do about it, and will send the articles without a deal with McConnell.

She played it badly when she rushed the impeachment. The subpoenaed should have been forced, instead of now crying how the Republicans don't want witnesses (which would essentially mean the Republicans actually trying to force subpoenas that Democrats in the house refused to).

Providing that McConnell manages to keep the Republicans united, there is nothing the Democrats can do. The hope is that Collins, Murkowski, Romney, and Gardner go against McConnell's orders (and Manchin, Sinema, and Jones actually vote with Democrats), but I don't know if this will happen (Romney is all talk (like Jeff Flake was) but in the end votes on party lines, Gardner can be a wild card, I expect both Collins and Murkowsi voting for witnesses assuming that the vote goes in the floor). Maybe the best we can expect is a deal from those 4 with McConnell to allow some limited witnesses. I also expect all Republicans to exonerate Trump, with Manchin and possibly Sinema joining them (Doug Jones will likely vote with Democrats, cause his philosophy seems to be 'to hell with the political consequences, I do what I think is right').

With the results of this being known already, I think the best is if there is a fast trial, so Bernie and Warren can go campaigning. Otherwise, the only winners of this might be Buttigieg and Biden (providing that he and his son are not called in the trial). And it is a very big advantage for them campaigning while Sanders is stuck in DC.
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She had no legal requirement to send the articles over until they had agreed the terms of the trial, she's the Speaker of the house and an equal power to McConnell and Trump. She's folded because she's a corporate shill and doing what her corporate sponsors tell her to do.

Pexbo said:
I think it's a trap personally, Pelosi will have the word of Romney, Collins and a few retiring GOP senators and it will end up a couple of votes short and be dismissed. I think Pelosi is dumb or complicit if she sends them across before assurances are in place. She should insist that the process of any impeachment in the Senate is formalised and binding before she sends these articles across.
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Revan said:
McConnell made it clear that he doesn't give a shit if Pelosi doesn't send the articles, cause he doesn't want the procedure to happen in the first place. There have been Republican senators urging him to do a trial anyway, without the articles being sent (which most likely will make a constitutional crisis). She also would look a hypocrite delaying the articles after saying that it was imperative to go with the impeachment as soon as possible, and it was a matter of national security.

Her hands are tied. She played her best card under the created circumstances, and that card was not good enough. She doesn't have any power on how the Senate does the trial. And when she had the power on how to do the impeachment, I think that she didn't do it well enough (should have gone over the courts to force many of the subpoenas).
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Pexbo said:
I disagree, I think holding onto the articles of impeachment is the best option until a fair process is agreed, voted on and binding. The longer they hold onto them the longer McConnell's complicity and hypocrisy is discussed, sure Pelosi will be criticised too by certain sections of the media but that's more than worth it because it means Trump doesn't get the "TOTAL EXONERATION" that he is so craving. He's been impeached and until there is a fair trial with all the evidence and all the witnesses then he's left to stew in the hot sun as the impeached president who did not have their named cleared in the Senate. Obviously some people think that's unjust but it's not Pelosi that is to blame for that, it's McConnell and the Trump Administration who have every opportunity to clear his name via a fair trial. Right now it's them who is stopping the process rather than her as she is simply protecting the constitution which she swore an oath to do.

Regarding going to court to force the subpoenas, that was never really an option and was exactly what Trump wanted Pelosi, Schiff and Nadler to do as they would have the courts tie it up indefinitely. Trump would have gone to his lowest court appointee who would have presided over it for months before approving the subpoenas. This would have kept the ball in Trump's court and he would have escalated it to one of his appointees in the next highest court who would have done exactly the same thing, right up to the supreme court in a year or so time. The result would have been a massively diluted impeachment process which would have been left hanging in exactly the same way only Trump would not have been impeached. Instead they proceeded with all the evidence and witnesses they had access to and it was still more than enough to impeach Trump. The subpoenas are still going through court and depending on the time frame, they will either be passed over to the senate as evidence (if permitted) or they will form the basis for new articles of impeachment surrounding the Mueller findings and the new evidence and witness testimonies they can compel from that.

In short, Democrats have done the best they can considering the flop but they know to keep checking and calling because the odds of the turn and river giving them a very strong hand is very high.
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Adisa said:
Republicans are desperate to have this wrapped up before the State of The Union. She could have delayed sending the articles.
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The best thing that can happen is the GOP acquitting him in a day or two and then a tell all bombshell dropping on the NYT or WAPO the day before SOTU. Acquittal here is a formality, the Dems have got to figure out how much then can erode the GOP leaning independents prior to 2020.
 
Pelosi really did not want this to happen. And when she did finally get on board ,she narrowed down the scope of impeachment and put a short deadline on it.
 
Revan said:
Hard to justify delaying them when Democrats rushed to impeach him cause it 'was an urgent matter of national security'. I think they have done their polling and have realized that not sending the articles will harm them in the election.
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Can you get some attribution for that 'quote'? The democrats rushed to impeach because it was their only way of curtailing Trump's actions with Ukraine. Had they not moved to impeach it would have continued as a clandestine operation.
 
The one thing I'll say - generally agreeing with the criticism here - is that Pelosi is widely regarded as better at all this sht then anyone. So I wouldn't claim to see her plan, but I have some faith there is one.
 
Pexbo said:
She had no legal requirement to send the articles over until they had agreed the terms of the trial, she's the Speaker of the house and an equal power to McConnell and Trump. She's folded because she's a corporate shill and doing what her corporate sponsors tell her to do.
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Did Red Dreams hack your account?
 
Beachryan said:
The one thing I'll say - generally agreeing with the criticism here - is that Pelosi is widely regarded as better at all this sht then anyone. So I wouldn't claim to see her plan, but I have some faith there is one.
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McConnell is easily the best one at schemes.

I don't think there is a plan cause, in the end, it is all about the numbers.
 
Revan said:
To be fair, he voted against Kavanaugh too and seems from the beginning to not give a shit about trying to appeal to everyone. In most of the polls he is losing, but still within the margin, so I think he is gonna give a good fight in reelection (but hard to see him winning). He also might be auditioning for a cabinet role.

Democrats can win senate positions in deep-red states. Manchin won relatively easily in the reddest of them all, despite that he was the most targetted Democrat in the election. And (I know, not the same thing), Dems won the gubernatorial race in Kentucky. Still, hard to see him winning, but I think he has some chance (maybe 20-30%).
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Matt Bevin is on par with the creep in Alabama if not worse. He had likely the worst approval ratings of any governor in a state and should have by all accounts lost the primary. Manchin is from a time when WV was Democrat due to the union influence in mining counties.

The best outcome Collins can hope for is to give the GOP nominee a close run like Beto did to Cruz in Texas but I'd be surprised if it even came that far. Sessions might run for that seat as well.
 
Revan said:
Did Red Dreams hack your account?
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I'm open to any other reasons that Pelosi thought it was a good idea to send over the articles before she had it in writing that the trial would be a legitimate one.
 
Pexbo said:
I'm open to any other reasons that Pelosi thought it was a good idea to send over the articles before she had it in writing that the trial would be a legitimate one.
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I suppose that it became clear that McConnell has no interest in making a deal with Pelosi, and the internal polls showed that not sending the articles will harm the Dems.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
Matt Bevin is on par with the creep in Alabama if not worse. He had likely the worst approval ratings of any governor in a state and should have by all accounts lost the primary. Manchin is from a time when WV was Democrat due to the union influence in mining counties.

The best outcome Collins can hope for is to give the GOP nominee a close run like Beto did to Cruz in Texas but I'd be surprised if it even came that far. Sessions might run for that seat as well.
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Most polls show Jones actually being within the margin of victory even against Sessions. And Sessions (while very respected in Alabama) is not in good terms with MAGA crowd.
 
Revan said:
Most polls show Jones actually being within the margin of victory even against Sessions. And Sessions (while very respected in Alabama) is not in good terms with MAGA crowd.
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It would surprise me but to me optimism is in short supply when it comes to Alabama and Mississippi.
 
Pexbo said:
She's folded because she's a corporate shill and doing what her corporate sponsors tell her to do.
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That about sums her up . Plus she may have a bonus of Bernie /Warren being tied up in this trail ,while Biden carries on in the primary.
 
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