Yes . Team is full of others waiting for others to do it. Attitude of non competitors just turn up, they do care, but not enough. Its fecking shameful of how many bottlers we got .
Does the club just lack character?
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I have no idea how this is relevant to my post? We are at least theee years away from giving Liverpool a game, hell Rangnick just said 6
Yeah they weren't the best team but they at least had some fight, as you'd expect from a Mourinho team.
This club lacks a lot, but i think the big one is clear direction.
It seems we are taking steps to right that wrong, but lets wait until any action is taken before we believe it.
It seems we are taking steps to right that wrong, but lets wait until any action is taken before we believe it.
It lacks something, I'm not even sure what it is, but the club is just not right.
It's why I have zero excitement about etherium or whichever new "saviour" manager is coming in. It's hard to put into words, but I just get the feeling Guardiola could take over and things would still go awry.
It's why I have zero excitement about etherium or whichever new "saviour" manager is coming in. It's hard to put into words, but I just get the feeling Guardiola could take over and things would still go awry.
This club used to be famous for it's character and mentality enforced by figureheads like Robson, Cantona, Keane and ofcourse Fergie over the years. Also, had a general vibe of inevitability at times(like Liverpool under Klopp).
This team has zero character though and are a bunch of overpaid spineless bums(and I'm being lenient here!); the squad's mentality is so fragile that it's unreal. Forget about the quality but even lower table teams put more fight in against Liverpool based on mentality alone.
I would largely blame the incompetence the board has shown awarding every damn player with bumper salaries and lucrative contracts. You can see players who don't even play getting contract extensions as if they're some sort of mascot(Adult Disneyland, anyone?). There's a feeling and attitude in these players that they've already made it and are untouchable superstars. You know something is very wrong when Rashford and Martial earn more than Salah and Mane! Look at someone like Modric. He has won everything but still puts in the dog's work at 36 despite being a very technical player. You simply don't see that attitude here. Without winning a thing, people think they have made it.
I think a part of the mediocrity also stems for the fanbase accepting anything being shoved down their throats. Now I am not expecting the fanbase to go full-on Real Madrid but a bit of that would be useful for once imho.
Another related thing would be getting rid of the past image of Fergie's United and the mythical "United way". It's in the past, the game has moved on. Feels like the ghost of that great United is still around clouding people's minds. Nostalgia is good until it starts affecting your present and future. Currently, this phrase just reeks of nepotism and desperately hanging on to history. For me, the "United way" was always about winning with a strong mentality allowing young exciting players to flourish and grow alongside it. Current United couldn't be any further from that.
Another thing that astonishes me is how incredibly soft United are. Sometimes it's like they're paving the path for the opponents to score in clutch moments. Zero fighting spirit or nastiness in the squad.
All in all, yes, the club has zero character currently and needs a total rebuild and an actual cultural reset(No, I don't mean the thing we heard during Ole's tenure!) from top to bottom.
This team has zero character though and are a bunch of overpaid spineless bums(and I'm being lenient here!); the squad's mentality is so fragile that it's unreal. Forget about the quality but even lower table teams put more fight in against Liverpool based on mentality alone.
I would largely blame the incompetence the board has shown awarding every damn player with bumper salaries and lucrative contracts. You can see players who don't even play getting contract extensions as if they're some sort of mascot(Adult Disneyland, anyone?). There's a feeling and attitude in these players that they've already made it and are untouchable superstars. You know something is very wrong when Rashford and Martial earn more than Salah and Mane! Look at someone like Modric. He has won everything but still puts in the dog's work at 36 despite being a very technical player. You simply don't see that attitude here. Without winning a thing, people think they have made it.
I think a part of the mediocrity also stems for the fanbase accepting anything being shoved down their throats. Now I am not expecting the fanbase to go full-on Real Madrid but a bit of that would be useful for once imho.
Another related thing would be getting rid of the past image of Fergie's United and the mythical "United way". It's in the past, the game has moved on. Feels like the ghost of that great United is still around clouding people's minds. Nostalgia is good until it starts affecting your present and future. Currently, this phrase just reeks of nepotism and desperately hanging on to history. For me, the "United way" was always about winning with a strong mentality allowing young exciting players to flourish and grow alongside it. Current United couldn't be any further from that.
Another thing that astonishes me is how incredibly soft United are. Sometimes it's like they're paving the path for the opponents to score in clutch moments. Zero fighting spirit or nastiness in the squad.
All in all, yes, the club has zero character currently and needs a total rebuild and an actual cultural reset(No, I don't mean the thing we heard during Ole's tenure!) from top to bottom.
We should carry out a real life Trading Places. I’d love to see Pogba deal with swapping his chauffeur driven, mansion housing, multi millionaire lifestyle for a month sleeping in Heaton Park with a Prestwich prostitute making a few quid peddling crack.
This might just be the clubs level. Apart from purple patches under Sir Matt and SAF, this has pretty much been the level.
Mid table finishes, and a few cup runs.
Mid table finishes, and a few cup runs.
Spineless and gutless, at least give them a physical battle. What irritates me the most is when players come out after the game and tell us that it's not good enough and we need to raise our level etc. I'm waiting for them to actually start doing that.
Cannot wait to clear the decks and start again. Build around some youth talent that is clearly there with players that want to be here. Bin the ego's and lets see what happens.
Cannot wait to clear the decks and start again. Build around some youth talent that is clearly there with players that want to be here. Bin the ego's and lets see what happens.
No we are not we should be giving game to likes of Liverpool and City starting next season itself we may come up short that's the different thing all together but not even being competitive in one off game is inexcusable .
By the third season we should be challenging for the big titles and that should always be the expectation with Club of United's stature and resources irrespective of whatever mess we are . For so long United fan base have accepted mediocrity in the name of patience and support it's about time It changes .
Surely our club, manager and players lack character, ambition, will to win.
Ronaldo and Bruno are the only players that shown character, the others are just chickens.
Last night there was 0 character the best paid players in the country that can't win a ball or run.
Ronaldo and Bruno are the only players that shown character, the others are just chickens.
Last night there was 0 character the best paid players in the country that can't win a ball or run.
I don't think that's true. Football fans are massively reactive and things change very quickly in football.
Says who though? Do we think City and Liverpool are going to stand still while we rebuild?
It’s not accepting mediocrity it’s accepting that the club needs gutting and we are starting from scratch. Look at all the money clubs, did they sign 7/8 players and are immediately among the best in the world? Of course not, that’s what we are looking at here. It’s almost as if we are a newly taken over 6th placed side with big money to invest. It’ll take time.
I wish we had never sold Zlatan, hell I would have still preferred him over lukaku.
The minute zlatan left we lost a great presence around the team that was a strong leader, he had a winners mentality and the cracks in the dressing started to show when he went, pogba seemed a different player with him at our club.
As for herrera, fans said the club was right to not offer him 200,000-250,000 a week to keep him but he at least would have earned it every week in pure commitment and effort on the pitch which can not be said for ole's golden boys like pogba, martial and rashford who are all on the same or more wages.
Eh? I don't think he means that, he means being up with them challenging for the league. I'd fully expect them to give them a better game over 90 minutes next season. If other teams can in the PL, there's no reason why we can't when the new manager and players come in.
I think too many players view playing for United as the promised land, not winning trophies with United. This is the problem. If I play for United, I have already reached the summit. Sad but true.
Would explain the weak mentality.
Would explain the weak mentality.
His injury was a big turning point. We wouldn't have bought Lukaku had it not happened and strengthened elsewhere.
This current squad has no leaders. Nobody to look up to. I'm not even angry with them anymore its just sad watching that bunch of players silently walking around the pitch, afraid to make a tackle in case they might get injured or ruin their hairdo, knowing that however badly they play they are safe in the knowledge they will retain their places in the starting 11.
No fight in any of them. Pathetic!
I didn't expect them to win last night but I did expect them to show a bit of pride and have a go. Not even a meaningful tackle from them last night. I hope their all enjoying being a laughing stock this morning!
No fight in any of them. Pathetic!
I didn't expect them to win last night but I did expect them to show a bit of pride and have a go. Not even a meaningful tackle from them last night. I hope their all enjoying being a laughing stock this morning!
It was also ruthlessness. Star players being sold unceremoniously because they interfered with the team's collectiveness. Starters getting benched for seemingly no other reason than to sharpen them up a little. Buying expensive players and replacing them quickly when they didn't perform as expected. Staff getting replaced for not being up to the level needed.(unless family)
We're much closer to how Liverpool were run than how Sir Alex managed his squads. If there is a "United way" we're so far off it we can't even see it anymore.
They should look at how United destroyed Reyes when Arsenal seemed invincible as to how to bring fluid attacking teams to a stop. Take some yellows. We cannot go toe to toe so we go studs to studs.
I posted on here about 7/8 years ago that there was a problem with the culture of the club. Got laughed at by many. Still think culture is the big issue. From the very top the culture is all wrong. We’re going nowhere until that changes.
Other than the huge gulf in class, something that really stood out yesterday was Liverpool’s tenacity.
Henderson was a massive ****, but even at 4-0 up he was getting in the face of United players, fully committing to 50-50s and arguing with refs.
We used to compete to win every 50-50, every throw on, every header. Our current side just goes through the motions, and has no competitive spirit whatsoever.
Henderson was a massive ****, but even at 4-0 up he was getting in the face of United players, fully committing to 50-50s and arguing with refs.
We used to compete to win every 50-50, every throw on, every header. Our current side just goes through the motions, and has no competitive spirit whatsoever.
It lacks everything that’s good , it’s really that simple…..sadly
I think we've slowly kept losing strong personalities while consistently recruiting the wrong type. The team is full of passive mentally weak players and there're no leaders to pick them up. We've also allowed plenty of players to stick around while they don't want to be there, which I'm sure doesn't help.
Biggest club in the world yet we have zero identity. Vanilla FC.
Woodward broke the club. Completely fractured everything which was built and failed to seize on the opportunity to modernise the football operation after Sir Alex departed.
We've been so hell bent on replicating the past that we've completely let go of the here and now and find ourselves so far away from the top of English Football.
The Glazers are definitely not innocent here - but despite their leeching and general lack of interest, they signed off £1bn of investment in transfer fees alone and some of the biggest contracts in English football with nothing to show for it. Their trust in Ed Woodward pisses me off more than anything.
What a wasted decade it's been. One thing is for sure, the commercial conglomerate we once were is miles away from coming back. City and Liverpool will get the record deals, and it's when the coffers are hit that the leeches will take notice.
We've been so hell bent on replicating the past that we've completely let go of the here and now and find ourselves so far away from the top of English Football.
The Glazers are definitely not innocent here - but despite their leeching and general lack of interest, they signed off £1bn of investment in transfer fees alone and some of the biggest contracts in English football with nothing to show for it. Their trust in Ed Woodward pisses me off more than anything.
What a wasted decade it's been. One thing is for sure, the commercial conglomerate we once were is miles away from coming back. City and Liverpool will get the record deals, and it's when the coffers are hit that the leeches will take notice.
If we win the league while rebuilding then great, I’m not giving a pass to a squad capable of winning the league. Im really talking about going to Anfield and giving them problems with the way we play. Under the right manager we could go there and frustrate them but it’ll be like every other team who goes there maybe bar City, defend and hope their strikers have an off day to nick a draw. I saw Arteta do that earlier in the season.
That’s not good enough but it’s what I’m expecting until Ten Hag gets the squad he needs. It seems we are so far behind in recruitment that we need CL to sign targets because our targets are obvious targets. Rice and Kane can feck right off, we need to scout the hundreds of players out there who wants to move to the best league in the world and narrow that down to who a massive club like Utd needs and can get. Not one post on here (that I saw) named Luis Diaz as a wide man we should get, and if there was, there wasn’t a massive stampede to add him to the must get wish list. Same for Bruno, there was talk but there wasn’t a massive anticipation for him as there was for 120m Dembele or even Dybala. If getting CL means more money in Glazers pocket while we have an excuse to keep players who aren’t good enough just because we need a big squad to cover competitions we have no chance in doing well in them feck it. Might be better to be out of it to completely revamp the dressing room.
I’ve simply had enough
We're a marketing business first. Just look at who actually sits on the board - it's like the Avengers for business. The whole selling point of the club was that commercially we were in a league of our own - our footballing prowess was secondary to the Glazers, it just happened to be a bonus that we had SAF to control all of that.
Our signings have all flopped for the past 9 years or so due to the fact we've gone for Hollywood names consistently, ignoring the needs of the team and upsetting the applecart by having old shit players on huge wages. Hollywood being the operative term - we've had to immediately look to recoup our funds through relentlessly flogging our "stars" in endorsement deals. That's meant that they've been rewarded with bumper contracts not because of their playing ability but entirely due to commercial metrics. Pogba with 45m or whatever followers on Instagram (made that number up but imagine it's around that) can say "I pull in a huge audience, who will spend £x on merchandise therefore I need a cut of £y", on top of leaning on being a World Cup winner. But the same is true for Rashford, for example. It's no coincidence that - and before I get shot, in all honesty how he's gone about things at least has benefits to society - he started with a major PR push as soon as he signed onto Jay-Z's PR company. These players are all acutely aware that building the "brand" is what United fundamentally rewards.
Since '05 we have seen a disconnect between football and commercial. SAF tempered this by being a once in a millennia football manager (plus David Gill was an actual proven operator), but it's a disconnect that has been deliberately allowed to grow due to the ambitions of the owners and the senior leadership team since his retirement. In my opinion, they were probably ecstatic that SAF and Gill retired when they did, as it allowed the Glazers to take full command and finally appoint their lackey and chief enabler Ed Woodward. The rest is a depressing decade in United's history.
https://ir.manutd.com/corporate-governance/board-of-directors.aspx - there's the board, take a look at the "Independent Directors" for where the priorities for this club lie.
Our signings have all flopped for the past 9 years or so due to the fact we've gone for Hollywood names consistently, ignoring the needs of the team and upsetting the applecart by having old shit players on huge wages. Hollywood being the operative term - we've had to immediately look to recoup our funds through relentlessly flogging our "stars" in endorsement deals. That's meant that they've been rewarded with bumper contracts not because of their playing ability but entirely due to commercial metrics. Pogba with 45m or whatever followers on Instagram (made that number up but imagine it's around that) can say "I pull in a huge audience, who will spend £x on merchandise therefore I need a cut of £y", on top of leaning on being a World Cup winner. But the same is true for Rashford, for example. It's no coincidence that - and before I get shot, in all honesty how he's gone about things at least has benefits to society - he started with a major PR push as soon as he signed onto Jay-Z's PR company. These players are all acutely aware that building the "brand" is what United fundamentally rewards.
Since '05 we have seen a disconnect between football and commercial. SAF tempered this by being a once in a millennia football manager (plus David Gill was an actual proven operator), but it's a disconnect that has been deliberately allowed to grow due to the ambitions of the owners and the senior leadership team since his retirement. In my opinion, they were probably ecstatic that SAF and Gill retired when they did, as it allowed the Glazers to take full command and finally appoint their lackey and chief enabler Ed Woodward. The rest is a depressing decade in United's history.
https://ir.manutd.com/corporate-governance/board-of-directors.aspx - there's the board, take a look at the "Independent Directors" for where the priorities for this club lie.
Our captain is Harry Maguire. This speaks volumes of the lack of character in this squad.
the team is fill of lazy players. Hannibal against city was the only player making himself present on the pitch. The rest were very casual and soft. Opposition come up against us not fearing any battle since we don’t fight on the pitch. We try to play football and moan when it doesn’t work
the team is fill of lazy players. Hannibal against city was the only player making himself present on the pitch. The rest were very casual and soft. Opposition come up against us not fearing any battle since we don’t fight on the pitch. We try to play football and moan when it doesn’t work
God not another of thes ridiculous threads. Its blindingly obvious what the club lacks. It starts with having owners who actually care about winning trophies or what happens on the pitch or the fans, and then filters down from there with a complete lack of any coherent football decision making structure, philosophy or style of play. End of.
I think we will be fine I heard Jesse Lingard saying after the game they will regroup and move onto the next game.
Problem solved
Problem solved
It stems from the top and the culture has been created by Wooward and the Glazier's focus on social media/branding and paying huge sums of money to players who have achieved nothing on the basis that they play for Manchester United. We're treating players like they are premier league winners and paying them as if they are the best players in the entire world. This is going to create a culture of apathy and toxicity in regards to drive and ego's.
I would say we have a few players with what I would consider have a winners mentality. Ronaldo is the stand out, whatever you might think about him he hates losing and is a born winner. I'd say Bruno has some of those qualities but not to the level of Ronaldo. McT is the closest we have in terms of mentality and fight to a United team of old after that - and although he might be a limited player in some aspects if we're talking purely character and fight he is up there. Outside of those 2/3 the rest are all apathetic, they don't have the right drive and determination and this stems from a few things which i'll list below (as I see it).
We got rid of pretty much every player in the squad over the last few years that had the right characteristics. Irrespective of perceived player quality we had a team of people who hated to lose - think Rio, Vidic, Rvp, Evra, Rafael, Rooney etc, even the peripheral players had that attitude (Evans, Hernandez, fabio) - The players who came in saw the standard in terms of character of what was expected of a United player and they had it instilled in them (and they were scouted to ensure they could handle such demands).
We phased those players out and replaced them with the likes of Di Maria, Depay, Miki, Pogba, Martial. Only Zlatan was a worthy recruit in terms of drive and he's gone now. So every player that comes in learns from the current squad, the likes of Lingard, Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Maguire, Lindelof, AwB, Dalot etc are now the standard - So the standards have dropped and there's no core/majority of the squad to keep them high to foster that same culture. It's simply gone.
Now, this is further compounded by Ed etc selling the club to players based on how many social media likes they can get and how the club will further their brands and sponsorship. The focus is not on football, it's on how the player will be marketed. If that wasn't bad enough, we then pay these players who have done very little the highest wages in the world. You have the likes of Martial, Rashford - who have won absolutely nothing being paid more than the absolute best attackers in the world. More than Salah, Lewa, Mane, KDB etc.
You're telling these players they are worth this much - for doing absolutely nothing in terms of trophies or performance. We then hand out even larger contracts to keep their value - not based on performance but again on financial reports and marketing. All of these things compounded are what has created this attitude of apathy and lack of accountability and character. It's a beast of the glaziers and Woodward's own making and it's going to be a long hard road to fix.
I would say we have a few players with what I would consider have a winners mentality. Ronaldo is the stand out, whatever you might think about him he hates losing and is a born winner. I'd say Bruno has some of those qualities but not to the level of Ronaldo. McT is the closest we have in terms of mentality and fight to a United team of old after that - and although he might be a limited player in some aspects if we're talking purely character and fight he is up there. Outside of those 2/3 the rest are all apathetic, they don't have the right drive and determination and this stems from a few things which i'll list below (as I see it).
We got rid of pretty much every player in the squad over the last few years that had the right characteristics. Irrespective of perceived player quality we had a team of people who hated to lose - think Rio, Vidic, Rvp, Evra, Rafael, Rooney etc, even the peripheral players had that attitude (Evans, Hernandez, fabio) - The players who came in saw the standard in terms of character of what was expected of a United player and they had it instilled in them (and they were scouted to ensure they could handle such demands).
We phased those players out and replaced them with the likes of Di Maria, Depay, Miki, Pogba, Martial. Only Zlatan was a worthy recruit in terms of drive and he's gone now. So every player that comes in learns from the current squad, the likes of Lingard, Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Maguire, Lindelof, AwB, Dalot etc are now the standard - So the standards have dropped and there's no core/majority of the squad to keep them high to foster that same culture. It's simply gone.
Now, this is further compounded by Ed etc selling the club to players based on how many social media likes they can get and how the club will further their brands and sponsorship. The focus is not on football, it's on how the player will be marketed. If that wasn't bad enough, we then pay these players who have done very little the highest wages in the world. You have the likes of Martial, Rashford - who have won absolutely nothing being paid more than the absolute best attackers in the world. More than Salah, Lewa, Mane, KDB etc.
You're telling these players they are worth this much - for doing absolutely nothing in terms of trophies or performance. We then hand out even larger contracts to keep their value - not based on performance but again on financial reports and marketing. All of these things compounded are what has created this attitude of apathy and lack of accountability and character. It's a beast of the glaziers and Woodward's own making and it's going to be a long hard road to fix.
Let's not say "The Club" when talking about the men's first team, there is much more to the club, then just the men's first team.
The women's teams, and the youth sides of both genders, certainly have character.
So if you want to have a go at the men's first team, by all means do so, have at them, but please let's separate them from the club.
The women's teams, and the youth sides of both genders, certainly have character.
So if you want to have a go at the men's first team, by all means do so, have at them, but please let's separate them from the club.
The standard comes from the top. The character of the club comes from its owners, their vision and mission for the club.
Take a look at the Glazers for a second. How can any good character or standard coming out of that garbage?
Take a look at the Glazers for a second. How can any good character or standard coming out of that garbage?
I think it's true of the playing squad. I don't think everyone doesn't care, but when your team mates aren't even trying - at some point it'd got to demotivate you.
Management selection has not helped. Moyes was a shit appointment and in hindsight Ole was a cheerleader more than a manager. Mourinho and LVG were not great choices in terms of style and continuity but they were both proud men who set high standards. You could see the players were uncomfortable with them.
We made a few managerial mistakes.
1. Not getting Mourinho straight after SAF. That squad would have respected him and continued at a high level under him.
2. Not beating Liverpool to Klopp.
3. Oles extension. Hands up - I was all for it, but that was the time for Poch.
Do Newcastle lack character?
They will win the PL sooner than us. They haven't won a major trophy since the 1950s.
They will win the PL sooner than us. They haven't won a major trophy since the 1950s.
What was sad was that not only was it a derby match with the incentive of still getting top 4 football and killing Liverpool's quadruple hopes but we also had the incentive to play with real spirit in support of the tragedy that has happened to Ronaldo and in the end we showed no fight, spirit or togetherness at all, just absolutely pitiful.
Poch??
Just no, he is and was NEVER the answer, he isn't a top level manager, never has been, never will be.
To the question in the title I'd say Yes.
I guess it depends on how one perceives things... for example if i were running the club players running down their contracts would be playing and training with the reserves once they are in their last 6 months.
I guess it depends on how one perceives things... for example if i were running the club players running down their contracts would be playing and training with the reserves once they are in their last 6 months.
This point isn’t made enough. You may very well be correct.