Doctors are repeating the mistakes of the miners strikes - Telegraph

rcoobc

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Killing people, assuming they are irreplaceable, and being on the wrong side of history.
Few will miss the National Union of Mineworkers more than Ian Lavery MP. Labour’s trade union spokesman used to run the union, which very kindly continued to pay him after he left its employ to enter Parliament. He also used money from an NUM “provident and benevolent fund” to buy his house.

Mr Lavery denies wrongdoing over these arrangements, which have a rather old-fashioned feel to them. Indeed, the NUM will soon slip into history; it will this year be legally wound up for lack of members.

The demise of a union that once challenged the government of the day for political supremacy says much about the changing nature of work. It is also a story the British Medical Association and its members might reflect on as they prepare for the first all-out strike in NHS history.

Doctors would doubtless consider themselves rather different to the miners. They’d be right, too. The miners were honest enough to admit that their strike was about money and self-interest. And with the exception of one strike-breaker in Wales, they didn’t kill anyone to make their point.

How many people die as junior doctors withhold emergency care remains uncertain; doubtless other NHS staff, most of them paid less than doctors, will do their best to avert such losses.


What is certain is that the strike is about money. By the BMA’s account, talks on a new employment contract foundered over two points. The BMA wanted doctors to be paid more for work on Saturdays. It also wanted doctors to get a larger share of the fines imposed on NHS trusts that make doctors work too many hours. If ministers had agreed to BMA proposals that would give doctors more money, the union would have accepted the new contract without more strikes.

There is no shame in a union seeking to promote members’ interests: that is why unions exist, even if Mr Lavery’s antics suggest otherwise. But the BMA looks increasingly exceptional. Unions have never mattered less in Britain. History is against them.

Fewer than 15 per cent of private sector workers are union members. UK employment is at a record high, but people are not joining unions when they join the workforce. Only in the shrinking public sector are unions still mighty: 55 per cent of state employees are unionised.

When it comes to employment practices, the private sector is a better signpost to the future than the state: companies knew long before public bodies that the days of a job for life and a gold-plated pension were over.

The future of work will mean freelance, flexible, footloose, economic free agents skipping from employer to employer, job to job. Monolithic blocs of labour, groups of specialised workers committed for life to the same employer, will only become rarer. So the power of the unions that exist to represent such groups will wither.

That trend may yield a shrug of white-coated shoulders. We’ll always need doctors, won’t we? And doctors will always be different, won’t they? Don’t bet on it.

The doctors’ strike is ultimately about the NHS budget, which already fails to match costs pushed up by an older, fatter population demanding ever more sophisticated treatment. So ministers must squeeze more from the exquisitely trained and paid medical workforce – but there are limits to the productivity gains to be made from tweaking the doctors’ working week.

Having rejected both a spendthrift Labour Party and now Tory welfare cuts, the electorate shows few signs of sanctioning either a major rise in spending (and therefore taxation) or a new funding model for the NHS.

That timidity must eventually mean a fundamental drive to make the service cheaper to run. And there is scope to make medicine – and its practitioners – much cheaper and more efficient.

Ask Devi Shetty, the Indian heart surgeon once called the Henry Ford of medicine, whose chain of production-line hospitals can each do dozens of complex operations every day for a fraction of the cost Western health care systems pay. (His surgeons, many of whom gave up bigger salaries in the West, work six-day weeks.)

Read the George Washington University study that estimates 85 per cent of a typical doctor’s work can be done perfectly well by a “physician’s assistant” with a fraction of the training or wages.

Try consumer technology that allows patients to monitor and manage their own chronic conditions, even carrying out their own brain scans with an adapted smartphone. Empowered patients need fewer doctors.

Watch robots do the work of once godlike surgeons. A “Da Vinci” robot was used to remove a lung tumour in Darlington this month, the first such procedure in the country. Such robots today are tools used by doctors. Soon enough people without a full medical degree will oversee their work.

Before they follow their trade union down the road to hell, doctors should remember the miners. They went on strike telling themselves that people would always need coal, so the country couldn’t do without them.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/hea...eating-the-mistakes-of-the-miners-strike.html
 
Everything is blatant these days; they don't even hide their contempt or their use of obvious propaganda.
 
:lol:

How soon do you think people will be happy to have someone not trained in medicine performing highly complex surgery on them?

I've trained a bit on the da vinci machine. It's an incredible piece of kit but contrary to what it seems to initially imply, it doesn't do anything by itself. It simply allows the surgeon to do work through a machine, in much the same way that laparoscopic surgery is still performed by surgeons.

The right wing press (and some tory mps) comparing doctors to the miners is slightly worrying for the country in terms of their plans, considering the miners were broken and there is now no mining industry.

Quite why people would want to break doctors, have demoralised people making life or death decisions or performing surgery and ruin the health care system already more than its been ruined over the last 8 years I don't know.
 
:lol:

How soon do you think people will be happy to have someone not trained in medicine performing highly complex surgery on them?

I've trained a bit on the da vinci machine. It's an incredible piece of kit but contrary to what it seems to initially imply, it doesn't do anything by itself. It simply allows the surgeon to do work through a machine, in much the same way that laparoscopic surgery is still performed by surgeons.

The right wing press (and some tory mps) comparing doctors to the miners is slightly worrying for the country in terms of their plans, considering the miners were broken and there is now no mining industry.

Quite why people would want to break doctors, have demoralised people making life or death decisions or performing surgery and ruin the health care system already more than its been ruined over the last 8 years I don't know.

Fecking awful. Laughably wrong by the Telegraph then on that. I'd never heard of it before, but watching this video is it meant to be one of those remote surgery devices?

Edit: Ugh, it actually says in that video "the system requires that every surgical maneovre is under the direct control of the surgeon. Redundant safety checks prevent autonomous movement". Really, really hope someone pulls them up on it.
 
That article's disgusting in a number of ways. You'd think we're a nation of headhunted & highly-paid mavericks who flit from job to job just for the novelty of it; the reality is somewhat different to say the least.
 
Ask Devi Shetty, the Indian heart surgeon once called the Henry Ford of medicine, whose chain of production-line hospitals can each do dozens of complex operations every day for a fraction of the cost Western health care systems pay. (His surgeons, many of whom gave up bigger salaries in the West, work six-day weeks.)

They didn't leave a cushy job in the west, they didn't bother to emigrate out of India.
 
They didn't leave a cushy job in the west, they didn't bother to emigrate out of India.

And also if you've trained abroad and return to countries like India, you can make an absolutely killing as a private surgeon on top of your own work.
 
The 'papers have been telling us for decades that junior doctors work the most ridiculous hours; good luck with now convincing us that they're lazy millionaires who are killing people because the docs can't bear to miss Saturday football matches.
 
Don't worry guys, 85% of a doctors work can be done by a “physician’s assistant” with a fraction of the training or wages. Heck, even I could do a Doctors Work most of the time. Have a headache? Take some paracetamol, unless you are allergic. Broken your arm? Let's get you into surgery.

But that statistic would imply that 15% of the time, a “physician’s assistant” cannot do a doctors work, and I bet the problem is you dont fecking well know when you need a doctor, and when you need a fecking nurse.

The parents of baby William Mead called 111 the day before he died in December 2014. A call handler without training failed to act on signs such as his limpness, while following computer protocols that did not pick up on a significant drop in William’s temperature.

Instead his parents were assigned a call back within a six-hour target by an out-of-hours GP. NHS England concluded that a doctor or a nurse taking the call would have been likely to recognise the need for urgent action.

By the time the call-back came, nearly three hours later, the child was asleep, and the GP, who had no access to his medical record, advised that he was best not disturbed. William was found dead the next day.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs...-enough-to-detect-deadly-child-illnesses.html

Of course that's an easy target, and has made headlines across the country. And doctors can make plenty of mistakes themselves, and it's not always easy to know what is right....

But my fecking god.
 
The 'papers have been telling us for decades that junior doctors work the most ridiculous hours; good luck with now convincing us that they're lazy millionaires who are killing people because the docs can't bear to miss Saturday football matches.
I dont know what you are on about
Overworked doctors pose 'alarming' threat to safety
An “alarming” threat to patient safety is being posed by the “unmanageable workload” that hospital doctors are having to deal with, according to a worrying report published today.

The situation needs to be “urgently addressed” if frail elderly patients are not to be put at further risk, according to the report by the Royal College of Physicians.
Matters are worst in England’s provincial hospitals, according to the College, because they struggle to recruit and retain hospital doctors. It found a “worrying correlation” between low consultant staffing levels and high death rates.

The report comes shortly after Jeremy Hunt, the Health Secretary, announced a review to examine high death rates in 14 hospital trusts. None are in London. Ten of the 14 are in the midlands or north west England. Experts are due to meet next week to agree a plan on how to tackle the problem.

The Royal College found medical registrars - the grade below consultant level - were being excessively overworked.

One said: “I had 30 patients to review. It was a ridiculous number. I was unsafe…I can put my hands up. I think that’s because of the work. I think medicine is unsafe at the moment.”

...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/hea...d-doctors-pose-alarming-threat-to-safety.html
Patients at risk from junior doctors working 100 hour weeks: GMC
Patients are being put at risk by exhausted junior doctors working 100 hours a week, the General Medical Council has warned, because the European rules on working hours are not working.

Research carried out for the doctors' regulator has found the cut to junior doctors hours has not stopped the culture of excessive shifts with little rest.

Junior doctors are supposed to work a maximum of 48 hours per week, averaged over 26 weeks but this can still mean they work 13-hour shifts at a time often for days in a row, it was found.

One doctor said a patient died from a treatable condition during a staff handover between shifts and another junior was left to cover 340 patients alone overnight.

Junior doctors warned they were exhausted after long runs of nights or 13-hour shifts and some had been pressured to falsify their working hours to suggest they were compliant with the European Working Time Directive.

Others stayed longer voluntarily because they felt they could not gain the experience or training they needed within the hours

....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/hea...unior-doctors-working-100-hour-weeks-GMC.html

Junior doctors are still working 100-hour weeks despite European laws, the British Medical Association has warned.

The European Working Time Directive has limited doctors to working 48 hours in a week but this is averaged across 26 weeks.

The result is that junior doctors are working exhausting 'soul destroying' hours on the hospital wards which may put patients and themselves at risk, they said.

This is then balanced out with relatively few hours in the following weeks. However they argued this is problematic for their training and contact with senior doctors and want to see a more even working pattern.

On top of this many doctors are still under pressure to put in extra hours that are not officially recorded, it was warned.

A motion to be debated at the British Medical Association's junior doctors committee conference next week will call for hours to be averaged across 13 weeks instead of 26 and to put a cap on the maximum number of hours worked in a week of 72.

....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/hea...100-hour-weeks-despite-European-laws-BMA.html
Nine in ten emergency room doctors are working more than their contracted hours with many choosing to leave the NHS and work abroad, according to a new report.

Accident and emergency departments are under "intolerable pressures" and urgent action is needed to ensure that they remain safe and sustainable, doctors claimed.

The survey of 1,077 emergency medicine consultants found that 94 per cent regularly work late in order to keep up standards, with more than 60 per cent saying their workload is unsustainable.

Unmanageable pressures are making the speciality less appealing to junior doctors and making it hard to hold on to staff, many of whom seek work abroad, the report by the College of Emergency Medicine warned.

The number of emergency consultants emigrating from the UK rose from two in the whole of 2009, to 21 between January 1 and August 8 this year.

"The results show a worrying trend," the report said. "Increasing numbers of consultants who have been trained by the NHS are choosing to use their skills abroad."

...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/hea...n-ten-emergency-doctors-working-overtime.html
 
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Don't worry guys, 85% of a doctors work can be done by a “physician’s assistant” with a fraction of the training or wages. Heck, even I could do a Doctors Work most of the time. Have a headache? Take some paracetamol, unless you are allergic. Broken your arm? Let's get you into surgery.

But that statistic would imply that 15% of the time, a “physician’s assistant” cannot do a doctors work, and I bet the problem is you dont fecking well know when you need a doctor, and when you need a fecking nurse.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs...-enough-to-detect-deadly-child-illnesses.html

Of course that's an easy target, and has made headlines across the country. And doctors can make plenty of mistakes themselves, and it's not always easy to know what is right....

But my fecking god.

The whole awful backwardness of it for me is that of course they make even more mistakes when worked to the edge of collapse. It's the height of ridiculousness.
 
Fecking awful. Laughably wrong by the Telegraph then on that. I'd never heard of it before, but watching this video is it meant to be one of those remote surgery devices?

Edit: Ugh, it actually says in that video "the system requires that every surgical maneovre is under the direct control of the surgeon. Redundant safety checks prevent autonomous movement". Really, really hope someone pulls them up on it.


Yep, there is literally no autonomy to the machine whatsoever. It's remote in the sense that the surgeon isn't physically in the patient but pretty sure they're always in the theatre in case something goes wrong.

It's unfortunately incredibly wrong.

Computers and information technology have a huge part to play in the future (and present!) of medicine. It will improve patient care, further balance the relationship between physician and patient and allow the patient to take more control of their health. However, to suggest that doctors are imminently about to be phased out for physicians assistants and computers is hilarious.

Without sounding arrogant, the general point of a doctor is that they don't just do one or two things. They can be resuscitating a patient one minute, interpreting blood results next, telling somebody they have inoperable cancer after that and consoling a dying patients family after that. Throw in procedures, teaching, piles of admin, interesting scans etc etc. Then they might head off to clinic or endoscopy or the cath lab or whatever.

Not t really sure I'd feel comfortable with a physicians assistant operating on me and not sure I'd want a machine telling me I have cancer either.
 
My Da Vinci robot told me that Hitler did 9/11.
 
Yep, there is literally no autonomy to the machine whatsoever. It's remote in the sense that the surgeon isn't physically in the patient but pretty sure they're always in the theatre in case something goes wrong.

It's unfortunately incredibly wrong.

Computers and information technology have a huge part to play in the future (and present!) of medicine. It will improve patient care, further balance the relationship between physician and patient and allow the patient to take more control of their health. However, to suggest that doctors are imminently about to be phased out for physicians assistants and computers is hilarious.

Without sounding arrogant, the general point of a doctor is that they don't just do one or two things. They can be resuscitating a patient one minute, interpreting blood results next, telling somebody they have inoperable cancer after that and consoling a dying patients family after that. Throw in procedures, teaching, piles of admin, interesting scans etc etc. Then they might head off to clinic or endoscopy or the cath lab or whatever.

Not t really sure I'd feel comfortable with a physicians assistant operating on me and not sure I'd want a machine telling me I have cancer either.

Not arrogant at all, what 95% of people realise.
 

What's worrying is that as I approach the end of my 4th 12 hour shift in a row (or 4tg night shift in a row), often having (literally) not had anything to eat or drink all day other than a few stray chocolates on the wards, having not had a chance to go to the toilet all day, to have dealt with a myriad of different issues and be both physically and mentally exhausted, I notice a definite drop off in my documentation. Which probably means there's a drop off in the quality of the clinical decisions I'm making too.

I've had people say doctors who can't work 100+ hours a week shouldn't be doctors and that we need to toughen up. YTwo points to that:

We've had that before. Patients died. A lot. Because of mistakes by doctors that hadn't slept in 2-3 days in a row and who hadn't left the hospital all weekend. There just wasn't anybody to question things back then.

And we can (and have) worked these hours. But we know it's not safe. Which is a big reason why so many are fighting this.
 
What's worrying is that as I approach the end of my 4th 12 hour shift in a row (or 4tg night shift in a row), often having (literally) not had anything to eat or drink all day other than a few stray chocolates on the wards, having not had a chance to go to the toilet all day, to have dealt with a myriad of different issues and be both physically and mentally exhausted, I notice a definite drop off in my documentation. Which probably means there's a drop off in the quality of the clinical decisions I'm making too.

I've had people say doctors who can't work 100+ hours a week shouldn't be doctors and that we need to toughen up. YTwo points to that:

We've had that before. Patients died. A lot. Because of mistakes by doctors that hadn't slept in 2-3 days in a row and who hadn't left the hospital all weekend. There just wasn't anybody to question things back then.

And we can (and have) worked these hours. But we know it's not safe. Which is a big reason why so many are fighting this.
It's okay, we are replacing you with C3PO.

Off topic, what does C3PO do at all in the entire original trilogy? Does he do anything of value at all? He actually doesn't, does he? He's the Mike Phelan of Star Wars.
 
What's sad is that there is already a 24/7 emergency service in the NHS. we pretty much all work weekends and nights.

There isn't an elective service all round because people don't want that. People don't want their gallbladder out at 2am on a Thursday. Gps that have trialled weekend opening hours have generally had to abandon the programme because of a lack of interest. One of my colleagues was telling me about a friend of theirs today, a cardiology registrar. She was asked to come in (unpaid) to do echos today to help clear the backlog experienced by the hospital.

So she gave up her bank holiday Friday to come in. Not one of the first seven patients came. No call to apologise. No reason given. Just did not attend. And why would they? Give up a beautiful bank holiday Friday for an appointment when they know they'll get it rearranged for another time with no problems?

Unfortunately, the article is right in a way. I think the government is close to breaking doctors. The conditions are becoming unbearable. The number of people leaving training after a few years is unprecedented. The number if training posts unfilled is unprecedented. The number of departments having to be staffed by locums is big and increasing. The quality and number if both Gps and a&e junior doctors is incredibly worrying.

None of that matters though. As long as we break the doctors right?
 
It's okay, we are replacing you with C3PO.

Off topic, what does C3PO do at all in the entire original trilogy? Does he do anything of value at all? He actually doesn't, does he? He's the Mike Phelan of Star Wars.

I wouldn't mind being treated by a combo of C3PO and R2D2 in fairness.....
 
:lol:

How soon do you think people will be happy to have someone not trained in medicine performing highly complex surgery on them?

I've trained a bit on the da vinci machine. It's an incredible piece of kit but contrary to what it seems to initially imply, it doesn't do anything by itself. It simply allows the surgeon to do work through a machine, in much the same way that laparoscopic surgery is still performed by surgeons.

The right wing press (and some tory mps) comparing doctors to the miners is slightly worrying for the country in terms of their plans, considering the miners were broken and there is now no mining industry.

Quite why people would want to break doctors, have demoralised people making life or death decisions or performing surgery and ruin the health care system already more than its been ruined over the last 8 years I don't know.

Very key point. Everyone seems incredibly focused on the public support aspect of this, but it's arguable that it's being overplayed. The junior doctors do have public support, and I expect they will continue to do so, but I don't think it's even a necessity for them. They clearly believe in their cause, and even if the public began to side with the government, the doctors would have a strong hand of their own if they remained insistent on striking...because we kind of need them as a country.

The government seem determined that their plans will eventually succeed, but I doubt this one will go away. The long-term effects could be extremely damaging, because if you're a medical student/thinking of going into medicine, then seeing the government handle your future career like this would surely be a bit off-putting.
 
Fair whack of translation in Return.
Mostly just for that big slug? He had loads of people round him, someone must have understood him before C3PO. OR was that the guy he threw in the pit? Either way, not very useful. He also spent a lot of time not working or being put back together.
I wouldn't mind being treated by a combo of C3PO and R2D2 in fairness.....
Artoo was brilliant to be fair, clinical, single minded and ruthless.
 
How the heck does it come to this though? It's just the daftest scenario. Anyone who's every been in bother and had a doctor help them through it is surely going to side with doctors. The comparison with miners is risible. We all know that doctors in hospitals are overworked and the vast majority of people wouldn't put up with it in their own jobs, there'd be riots. Anyone who says otherwise, and I've seen them on facebook, to badly quote David Brent really doesn't understand the severity of the situation.
 
Mostly just for that big slug? He had loads of people round him, someone must have understood him before C3PO. OR was that the guy he threw in the pit? Either way, not very useful. He also spent a lot of time not working or being put back together.

Artoo was brilliant to be fair, clinical, single minded and ruthless.

Yup, checkmate. That's what I was thinking of. Oh well.
 
Those sex robots from Ex Machina would make good nurses.
 
It's okay, we are replacing you with C3PO.

Off topic, what does C3PO do at all in the entire original trilogy? Does he do anything of value at all? He actually doesn't, does he? He's the Mike Phelan of Star Wars.

Spout off odds and such, largely just argued with R2 as comedy relief though.
 
Very key point. Everyone seems incredibly focused on the public support aspect of this, but it's arguable that it's being overplayed. The junior doctors do have public support, and I expect they will continue to do so, but I don't think it's even a necessity for them. They clearly believe in their cause, and even if the public began to side with the government, the doctors would have a strong hand of their own if they remained insistent on striking...because we kind of need them as a country.

The government seem determined that their plans will eventually succeed, but I doubt this one will go away. The long-term effects could be extremely damaging, because if you're a medical student/thinking of going into medicine, then seeing the government handle your future career like this would surely be a bit off-putting.

I kind of agree with that tbh.

I'm not a slave to the government, the public or the NHS.

I love my job. I think it's a great honor. I love interacting with patients and helping them to the best of my ability. I very routinely stay late, for absolutely no extra pay, to make sure things on the wards are OK. I work nights. I work weekends. I think my pay is OK. It could be more, I certainly have many friends on far more. But I live comfortably. I don't mind any of this stuff.

However, I simply will not work the new rotas that they have released as sample rotas. I don't think it's safe for patients. I don't think it's safe for my health. It's not good for a family life that is already severely affected by my job. This is without mentioning the pay cut that will affect especially the younger doctors coming up.

The privatisation of the NHS is already in full swing but I'd like to say I at least did my part to preserve the thing that I think we should all be most proud of in this country.

And yep it certainly is. Applications for medicine were 17,000 2 years ago. They were 14.800 this year. Big drop.

A lot of the medical students on the wards are already demoralised before they've even started the job. How bloody depressing is that?
 
Physicians assistants doing 85% of a doctors job after 2 years medical training rather than a minimum of 5, most are helpful but aren't the same as a doctor.

Also look at nhs employers info on physicians associates pay

https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/explore-roles/physician-associateassistant/physician-associate

Afc band 7 pay is between £31000 and just under £41000 a year, a lot more than most junior doctors some of whom will be making £23000. And they get that for less training, less hours, less out of hours commitments and less responsibility!

http://www.nhsemployers.org/~/media/Employers/Documents/Pay and reward/AfC pay bands from 1 April 2015.pdf
 
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Mostly just for that big slug? He had loads of people round him, someone must have understood him before C3PO. OR was that the guy he threw in the pit? Either way, not very useful. He also spent a lot of time not working or being put back together.

Artoo was brilliant to be fair, clinical, single minded and ruthless.

Yeah 3po was a bit of a tool in fairness. Carried by the genius of R2
 
Physicians assistants doing 85% of a doctors job after 2 years medical training rather than a minimum of 5, most are helpful but aren't the same as a doctor.

Also look at nhs employers info on physicians associates pay

https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/explore-roles/physician-associateassistant/physician-associate

Afc band 7 pay is between £31000 and just under £41000 a year, a lot more than most junior doctors some of whom will be making £23000. And they get that for less training, less hours, less out of your commitments and less responsibility!

http://www.nhsemployers.org/~/media/Employers/Documents/Pay and reward/AfC pay bands from 1 April 2015.pdf

Yeesh. Smoking Gun, anyone?
 
I kind of agree with that tbh.

I'm not a slave to the government, the public or the NHS.

I love my job. I think it's a great honor. I love interacting with patients and helping them to the best of my ability. I very routinely stay late, for absolutely no extra pay, to make sure things on the wards are OK. I work nights. I work weekends. I think my pay is OK. It could be more, I certainly have many friends on far more. But I live comfortably. I don't mind any of this stuff.

However, I simply will not work the new rotas that they have released as sample rotas. I don't think it's safe for patients. I don't think it's safe for my health. It's not good for a family life that is already severely affected by my job. This is without mentioning the pay cut that will affect especially the younger doctors coming up.

The privatisation of the NHS is already in full swing but I'd like to say I at least did my part to preserve the thing that I think we should all be most proud of in this country.

And yep it certainly is. Applications for medicine were 17,000 2 years ago. They were 14.800 this year. Big drop.

A lot of the medical students on the wards are already demoralised before they've even started the job. How bloody depressing is that?

It's depressing, although kind of makes sense in the current climate. Medicine isn't easy to get into for becoming a doctor. Results wise, it's probably the most prestigious course out there. But, the thing is, why would someone with great results want to go into it right now? The hours are insane, there's probably better pay in other professions, and it's an extremely stressful career in which you have to balance the lives of others in your hands. I admire anyone who's dedicated to becoming a doctor, because I don't think it's something I could ever do (if I was capable), and a lot of others are probably the same.

I wouldn't even blame you for wanting more pay, anyway. I think we're mostly spoiled by NHS staff in this country. In most professions, it's kind of seen as the norm for people to inevitably want better pay if they're in a highly skilled profession, and to want to make as much money as they can. If a big business threatens to leave the country because of higher taxes, we're generally told that while that sucks, we have to pragmatically accept it.

Why shouldn't this be the case for junior doctors, and all NHS staff? They are in one of the most skilled roles around, and get paid comparatively little to some people in other professions. It makes sense for NHS staff to receive better pay, too. It encourages more capable people to enter the profession. It encourages British doctors to remain at home instead of going abroad. I've got a great admiration for our current NHS staff, because they do a fantastic job, and I'd find it hard to blame even if they were only trying to get a better wage...which obviously isn't the case, because there are legitimate concerns about hours/money, which the government seem determined to ignore, and people seem determined to smear doctors regarding it.
 
Frankly the miners came out on the right side of history. The dismantling of the coal industry during the 80s and 90s went basically exactly as the NUM warned it would, despite the government of the time claiming that the closures of the mid-80s were in the interests of safeguarding the long-term viability of the industry. 30 years on we still import coal (often from countries with awful workers' rights and health and safety records) and the continued economic stagnation of old mining areas is costing the government far more money than keeping the pits open ever would have. I'm not saying that the industry as it existed in 1985 should still be there unchanged today, but frankly the key way in which the miner's and the junior doctors are comparable is that they're both being subjected to a media onslaught by cronies of a Tory government who wants them beaten into line for largely ideological reasons.

As for the current dispute, if you're searching the NHS for greedy, self-interested folks who need to pull their socks up the technical staff are the last people you should be looking at. Any government who is serious about streamlining the NHS would do well to look at the armies of incompetent middle-managers and bureaucrats with no understanding of medicine or the delivery of medical care, many of whom earn far more than the average junior doctor.
 
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Is there a worse paper than the Daily Telegraph? I think it's even worse than the Mail.