Do you read anything into pre-season results?

Not that much, I was more hoping youngsters getting good portion of minutes.

Think in some cases, a good clearout could work motivational for others, just before season starts.
 
If utd had won every game and Mount scored and Rashford was playing well, Garnacho was tearing it up, I think there would be numerous posts of how the team look like challenging for the title. Fans are very fickle like that, lose a few and everyone plays down the importance.

The truth is pre season isn't like it was years ago, players have fitness programs which they stick to and the science involved means players don't lose their fitness as in previous eras.
What pre season is used for is sharpness, working on patterns of play, maybe experimenting with one or two in different roles, maybe a change in formation. You can be assured though, the team are being prepared to treat these games as prep for the first league game of the season.

If the team are struggling then it's a worry for sure. Not the end of the world, but winning breeds a winning habit, but so too does losing. If Utd lose the next game then the manager is going to get pretty concerned at how you get back to winning ways. You could see his annoyance in the game yesterday, if players stop doing what they're instructed too, if attitude is poor, this can manifest and others follow. There are no friendlies in football anymore.
 
Never gave a feck. Back when I was younger and we would draw to Urawa Red Dragons or whatever, my non United friends would find it hilarious but even then I didn’t get why.
 
Pre-season tours of the Far East, Australia, America really annoy me for a number of reasons. Firstly our entire squad - from World class internationals down to teenagers that very few have heard of - are treated like demi-gods.

Secondly, the travel hours to preparation and training must be disproportionate.

Thirdly, the whole fiasco is about marketing rather than football.

Results don't matter. Performance doesn't matter. Only sales matter. Charging $250 for a seat to watch a thrown-together side is a travesty. Unitedcom, or whatever - load of bollocks.

I'd rather see us play fixtures against Oldham, Bury, Salford, Rochdale, Wigan ... Places where our players do not get the adulation they think they are entitled to. It would also financially help out those clubs who are struggling.

We learn absolutely nothing from these incredibly expensive, time-consuming, and pointless training/fitness exercises in potentially lucrative places.

Rant over.
 
The results are meaningless but the manner in which we're playing being so similar to last season is a concern. I'm not seeing much evolution, just lots of energy and zip but no real patterns of attacking play as usual. We get the ball to Rashford or Bruno quickly and hope they can do something.
 
They are a revenue generator for the clubs nowadays. A chance to appease and try to build on the international fanbase. Results wise, almost entirely meaningless. A handful of faux 'glamour' fixtures in sub optimal conditions, and almost always against teams that are ahead of or behind our own match fitness levels.

What happens on the training pitch is more important than the matches themselves.
 
High quality chance creation is still an issue so is losing our way when chasing games.
 
Of course not! We beat Arsenal who beat Barcelona who beat Real who beat us. City lost to Atlético but beat Bayern. Last year we beat Liverpool 4/0 only to go on and lose our first 2 league games. It's completely meaningless. Main thing is to get enough minutes on the pitch and build sharpness.
 
No. It's important for fitness and developing the right patterns, ironing out the rustiness of the off season, getting partnerships started. Results don't matter, all about developing the system.
 
Results do NOT matter but though if your fitness is not there yet and keep losing right before your season starts would be a massive concern. The team is obviously not in that stage but does not exactly seem to be ready for the season either at this point.
 
Sure, especially tactically and seeing how patterns are being experimented and used. Sancho in the middle is a good example, Ten Hag clearly wants that to be an option in games this year.

Our build up structures are also notable. As far as individual player performances? Best answer is "it depends". I care less about veterans but watching someone like Mainoo not look out of place against Arsenal was notable.
 
Not really, as other have mentioned, it is increasingly becoming a money making exercise for the club. Also in fairness, it gives many supporters around the world a chance to see players, in a United kit running around, something they would otherwise never see live, and therefore it help sells more shirts/memorabilia/etc.

Players do get fitter, 'sake the dust' etc. and if we understand correctly they get to listen to the managers and trainers new ideas for the coming season, although listening to ETH's post match analysis lately they are not all getting the message.
Not always sure of the benefits, but the risks involve does include for pre-fitness injuries that can linger, assume all that is taken into consideration.
 
OP, man did you watch the Dortmund game? 3 goals out of nowhere. This circus can’t be taken seriously even if won 6:3
 
I can't remember what season it was we had an incredible pre-season, I think under Van Gaal but I'm not sure. We beat Real and other top teams, looked absolutely on fire only to have a shit season afterwards. After that pre-season I don't put much weight on results anymore.
 
Unless we are fielding a majority U21 team, performances matter and then the results matter somewhat. Our A team and B team are supposed to be getting better at it. Else we will struggle in the season. Pre-season is good indicator of how the team is performing, trying out of various tactics, an indicator of how team may respond when pressured or when in trouble and lot more. Of course the actual games will have more focus and intensity, but good teams produce the results in pre-season.
 
Suedesi said:
Are we seriously analyzing a preseason friendly where we started our second string?
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hmm...

lostcauz said:
ETH just ripped the last half a hour apart, everything about it basically

"The last half an hour, it was bad, a poor performance. They didn't follow the rules at all, not in pressing, not in building-up or when attacking. They were 11 individuals on the pitch. That wasn't good at all."
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No. I don't even follow all the results. It's fitness, strategy, teams trying things, players etc... er, and mass corporate branding!

The shame is Mainoo picking up an injury, but we'll welcome him in back in the Autumn.
 
Like any level-headed fan, I allow good results to justify an increasingly unreasonable level of expectation for the coming season which will be mercilessly crushed by the end of September, but when pre-season results are bad I just shrug them off.
 
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Pre season results have never been a reliable indicator of readiness heading into the season. If you were picking the team based on these games the midfield would be Mainoo, McT and Donny.
 
Skills said:
Or performances, rather?

I'm not really sure, what side of the fence I'm on. The way pre-season games are with wholesale changes half way through, everyone trying to get fit but also trying not to get injured means that its hard to really put any value on what you're seeing.

But at the same time, form/momentum is quite important. Does a string of bad pre-season performances, suck a little momentum out of the start of your season?

Where do people sit on this?
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The results themselves are absolutely and utterly meaningless, and even the performances are a bit pointless in some ways because you can't really get any momentum going when the team changes the entire 11 every 45 minutes. Literally just match fitness and maybe a bit of team building is all it's about.

If we beat Barcelona, Real Madrid and Liverpool by 4 goals in every game we played them in preseason I still wouldn't get excited. It all gets forgotten as soon as the league starts.
 
A little bit yeah.

I don't think pre season is a guarantee of anything but generally when we have a bad pre season we have a bad start to the season. If we have a good pre season we tend to start the season better.

Last year was different but I think that was more the players reverting to type as soon the pressure was back on and it taking Ten Hag a couple of games to work certain things out.

Also you just want some confidence that we have an idea how to play, are committed to it, and what our team is supposed to look like. The slightly worrying thing for me this pre season is the fringe or second string players look like they have more of a clue what they're doing than the supposed first team, most of whom look like they're fitting the games in between their hangovers.
 
I remember Moyes had a pretty shit pre-season. Lost to Brunei's All Stars or something like that, didn't we?

Then went on to have a shit season.

You can never tell, the fact is, we're not playing very well and the clock is ticking.
 
The games that matter are those that are at then end of pre-season when you're playing your best team for 90 minutes (or near enough). By that time you want your players fit and on form ready to carry that into the first game. You may only have 1 of these games though, which I assume will be on Saturday at Old Trafford. If we put in a very good performance and result this weekend then there's plenty reason to be optimistic going into the first league games.

The early games where you're chopping and changing everything are irrelevant.
 
Performance obviously. These are football matches with 11 or more changes for each side, different starting lineups and players that you won't see in the regular season.

We're looking at how they can execute the managers plan, if they are fit and if they are individually playing well.

What we've seen that's different is how the team plays in possession. How they press. The intensity. There's still work to be done in passing out from the back and the finishing is still bad but the rest is looking good. Overall I've been most pleased with players that I didn't think would have a shot to play but Mainoo and Pellistri should be able to feature in this squad, Gore has potential and AWB is a lot better than people have given him credit for in the past.
 
There probably is some correlation between a good pre-season and a good season, but I don't think it's a particularly strong one. I imagine if you were to look at all the pre-seasons for all the different PL teams, those that had good pre-seasons were probably more likely to have good seasons than the ones that didn't, but certainly there are plenty examples of bad pre-seasons where the team did well and great pre-seasons where the following season was poor.

Things like transfers after the start of the season, the strength of opposition, how early key players returned to train (particularly in comparison with players of other PL teams) will all have a big impact too. I'd say I'm slightly concerned about a couple things in our pre-season but ultimately we won't know our true level until Wolves at the earliest. The lack of a striker in the pre-season needs to be considered too as we can't play our system properly until Hojlund joins or Martial returns.
 
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Results do not matter. Performances do not matter unless the player hasn't shown anything throughout the tour.

I am in general happy with the team. Defensive errors were the reason for the losses and we showed some good passing and movement against Arsenal and Dortmund. Madrid was also ok.

But I am extremely worried about Rashford's performances on the US tour.

He is the only player who hasn't shown anything decent the whole tour. One of the most important players at the club.

Just hoping he is slow to adapt but should be ready for the league when it begins.
 
Nope I never read into anything pre season. Most pre seasons Martial is a beast and then spends the majority of the season on the injury table. Pre season is just about fitness levels really and trying out new tactics.
 
Denis79 said:
I can't remember what season it was we had an incredible pre-season, I think under Van Gaal but I'm not sure. We beat Real and other top teams, looked absolutely on fire only to have a shit season afterwards. After that pre-season I don't put much weight on results anymore.
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Im in the same boat as you, I remember that pre season and the resulting shit show.
 
Not at all. There's zero correlation between pre-season results and the following year's competitive performances. It's all about fitness, bedding in new players, tactical experimentation and giving minutes to the young lads.

So often we've had excellent pre-season results followed by a poor league campaign or a terrible pre-season and the gone on to win the league. There's no point getting worked up about it or reading too much into it.
 
Since 1987 (Sir Alex' first pre-season), we've lost 3 games twice in our pre-season. Moyes' year and this year.
 
PSV said:
Since 1987 (Sir Alex' first pre-season), we've lost 3 games twice in our pre-season. Moyes' year and this year.
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Are we really including Wrexham?
 
I try to but with little success.

In all likelihood it means very little, players and the management probably just see it as some warm up and a chance for some academy players to show themselves and besides that, zilch.
 
There's people in the Rashford thread saying we should get rid of him because he's apparently been crap in pre-season...

Never change redcaf.
 
Pre season results and performance matters, but also need context. They obviously aren't the be all end all, but those involved with the clubs are fully aware of what a good and bad pre season is despite the results. They do tend to go hand in hand though.
How far along you are in prep compared to your opponents is extremely important. Beating team X 5-0 who are in their first friendly whilst you are playing your last is entirely different to the other way around. It's also important to know how much training players have been doing. There was one season that Liverpool had a terrible pre season but Klopp had them doing double sessions the entire time so they were shattered for every game.
A terrible pre season can set the tone for a poor start to season. Confidence can lower and also the support from the fans if its really bad.
 
Not really. Not when ETH makes 11 substitutions at half time each match :lol:
 
I assume someone else has already said it (too lazy to scroll through the last 3 pages) - but I remember that pre-season under LvG (2014?) when we won every game, beat Liverpool, Real Madrid, Inter, Roma etc.. Only to then lose to Swansea in the first game of the season, before drawing with Burnley and Sunderland and being spanked 4-0 by MK Dons... I also remember Pereira looking class every summer, Tom Cleverley looking like the next Iniesta...

So no, I don't read anything into pre-season other than who's fit and who we've signed.
 
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