Do you find Man City (and other Pep teams) boring?

[VivaJesperBlomqvist]

Just going to post what I put in the match day thread:


I don’t know what it is, and I am 100% serious on my life, I always find myself nodding off watching City. They’re so fecking boring. So fecking boring. Efficient, yes, but it’s analogous to when the first AI beat the human chess champion. This is the football equivalent to me. A team that has perfected the algorithm is now here. I think Haaland was the final piece

It makes me so angry because I genuinely have to make a black coffee to get through their matches these days. You wouldn’t get a Kompany last minute screamer with this current iteration. Just pass pass pass pass 70+% possession.

feck me.

 

[VivaJesperBlomqvist]

I really did fall asleep around the 50th minute. So yep City are pretty dull.

I slept through the United City game once they started doing their shit passing merry-go-round

 

[Greyfog]

Just going to post what I put in the match day thread:


I don’t know what it is, and I am 100% serious on my life, I always find myself nodding off watching City. They’re so fecking boring. So fecking boring. Efficient, yes, but it’s analogous to when the first AI beat the human chess champion. This is the football equivalent to me. A team that has perfected the algorithm is now here. I think Haaland was the final piece

It makes me so angry because I genuinely have to make a black coffee to get through their matches these days. You wouldn’t get a Kompany last minute screamer with this current iteration. Just pass pass pass pass 70+% possession.

feck me.

Why do you have to "get through their matches"?
Just don't watch it.

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

Just going to post what I put in the match day thread:


I don’t know what it is, and I am 100% serious on my life, I always find myself nodding off watching City. They’re so fecking boring. So fecking boring. Efficient, yes, but it’s analogous to when the first AI beat the human chess champion. This is the football equivalent to me. A team that has perfected the algorithm is now here. I think Haaland was the final piece

It makes me so angry because I genuinely have to make a black coffee to get through their matches these days. You wouldn’t get a Kompany last minute screamer with this current iteration. Just pass pass pass pass 70+% possession.

feck me.

Not watching them might help with your anger?

 

[Ludens the Red]

Just going to post what I put in the match day thread:


I don’t know what it is, and I am 100% serious on my life, I always find myself nodding off watching City. They’re so fecking boring. So fecking boring. Efficient, yes, but it’s analogous to when the first AI beat the human chess champion. This is the football equivalent to me. A team that has perfected the algorithm is now here. I think Haaland was the final piece

It makes me so angry because I genuinely have to make a black coffee to get through their matches these days. You wouldn’t get a Kompany last minute screamer with this current iteration. Just pass pass pass pass 70+% possession.

feck me.

Yep, echoed these a few weeks back. Prefer watching Liverpool as they mix it up a lot more. Haaland has definitely made them more boring overall because they’ve now lost that free roaming false striker who made it harder to track runs/movements etc.
Mahrez and Cancelo had swagger about them from the wide areas too and that’s gone. Pep started today with 4 CB’s (as did Lego pep tbf) but that definitely doesn’t help. Your full backs usually add dynamism to the play. City’s just act as muscle men. they failed to score today. It took them more than half the game against us to score. They couldn’t break down Brentford and Chelsea for ages too. This isn’t a one off. It’s a continuation. Yes they have a high defensive line and hog the ball but when you actually look at what they’re doing I genuinely think you can make the case to call it negative football as mad as that maybe seems.

 

[Greyfog]

Yes they are boring when teams seat deep and wait for mistakes.
They should go gung ho and risk conceding on counter attacks just for entertainment?

 

[VivaJesperBlomqvist]

Why do you have to "get through their matches"?
Just don't watch it.

Because I’m a football fan, and it was a title crunch game. This is why I am annoyed at them. What should be (and always used to be) an exciting type of game has now been reduced to that robotic shite.

 

[NewGlory]

Pep's Barca was not boring because he had Messi, Xavi, Iniesta etc. When you have such world-class players, it can't be boring.

I do find his Man City boring and annoying as feck, but I am also obviously biased because they are City and they are doing better than us. Pep's Bayern was very boring, imho

 

[Greyfog]

Yep, echoed these a few weeks back. Prefer watching Liverpool as they mix it up a lot more. Haaland has definitely made them more boring overall because they’ve now lost that free roaming false striker who made it harder to track runs/movements etc.
Mahrez and Cancelo had swagger about them from the wide areas too and that’s gone. Pep started today with 4 CB’s (as did Lego pep tbf) but that definitely doesn’t help. Your full backs usually add dynamism to the play. City’s just act as muscle men. they failed to score today. It took them more than half the game against us to score. They couldn’t break down Brentford and Chelsea for ages too. This isn’t a one off. It’s a continuation. Yes they have a high defensive line and hog the ball but when you actually look at what they’re doing I genuinely think you can make the case to call it negative football as mad as that maybe seems.

Yea you have a point with the lack of flair players on the team now.

Chelsea and Brentford both sat deep and played on the counter. Like Keane said today. It is easy to seat deep and shift side to side covering spaces.
It is boring to watch but I don't totally blame them for being extra careful when probing for an opening

 

[Hammondo]

It was one of the most boring games but that was way more down to Arsenal than City, I'm not sure what people wanted him to do.

 

[J2J]

Their games against whoever is in 2nd place are always hyped up but never deliver. Maybe my memory is bad but I struggle to think of any classic title race fixture they’ve been involved in. Compare this to like United vs Arsenal in the early 2000s.

 

[Greyfog]

Because I’m a football fan, and it was a title crunch game. This is why I am annoyed at them. What should be (and always used to be) an exciting type of game has now been reduced to that robotic shite.

Like you said it is a "title crunch game". Do not lose is the game plan. Even more important because Liverpool is involved.

 

[FootballHQ]

Yep, echoed these a few weeks back. Prefer watching Liverpool as they mix it up a lot more. Haaland has definitely made them more boring overall because they’ve now lost that free roaming false striker who made it harder to track runs/movements etc.
Mahrez and Cancelo had swagger about them from the wide areas too and that’s gone. Pep started today with 4 CB’s (as did Lego pep tbf) but that definitely doesn’t help. Your full backs usually add dynamism to the play. City’s just act as muscle men. they failed to score today. It took them more than half the game against us to score. They couldn’t break down Brentford and Chelsea for ages too. This isn’t a one off. It’s a continuation. Yes they have a high defensive line and hog the ball but when you actually look at what they’re doing I genuinely think you can make the case to call it negative football as mad as that maybe seems.

The Mancini and Pellegrini teams were far more entertaining to watch.

 

[Changeisgood]

City have a tendency to overdo it possession wise. We also can be guilty of it. It works in the sense that they control the pace of the game. If the opposing team tram is disciplined like we were today though, they are strangely spending as much energy as we are. They needed to push more resources forward, it was all a bit predictable. We were also guilty of contributing to this rather stale game, because we lost possession way too easily at times. We should have been able to push back on the counter way more often but I also credit City for transitioning very well. Rodri was excellent as usual in particular.

 

[AshRK]

People may call it technical and all but what today was served was haram football. No way if I had started watching football today, I would have supported either of them. That was diabolical stuff and the shameful part is next generation football players would be forced to believe this is how your team should play football.

 

[adexkola]

People may call it technical and all but what today was served was haram football. No way if I had started watching football today, I would have supported either of them. That was diabolical stuff and the shameful part is next generation football players would be forced to believe this is how your team should play football.

Thankfully that isn't true, they can look at Moyes and Dyche and Pochettino and Howe and understand there are multiple ways to play the game beyond what Pep and Arteta offered today

 

[kaku06]

There are many things I hate about his football not just one. The lack of flair players expressing themselves bar Messi. Now, you might get some flair here and there from players like Mahrez etc but they are never the same as they were before because of his system. He killed players like Grealish due to the rigidity of his style and fear of losing the ball. Grealish himself said so. I hate managers like that. That’s why i always rate managers like klopp higher than him.

Boring cnut killed the joy watching football for me. He’s the reason every team tries to play from the back now no matter how pitiful they are and can’t execute it i.e us. He’s the reason for starting this god awful false striker shit. Now there’s a real dearth of even decent strikers. And Now he’s onto his next shenanigans of playing 4 cbs in the backline. Won’t be long before every team having 4 cbs in defense marking the death of marauding fullbacks in football. Visionary my arse, the guy is a football criminal.

 

[AshRK]

Thankfully that isn't true, they can look at Moyes and Dyche and Pochettino and Howe and understand there are multiple ways to play the game beyond what Pep and Arteta offered today

It depends on the PR. Some media still act as if Pep has reinvented football. And you look at arteta who has managed to make pep's version even more boring and you have some calling a defensive masterclass. Well Jose used to deliver it and was called out as parking the bus and today was no different.

 

[Lay]

Heavily choreographed football. It works but my god is it predictable (but obviously effective).

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Argued it for years, the entire tactic is based on frustrating the living shit out of the opposition until someone gets tired, lazy, or so frustrated they make a mistake.

When your tactics are based on frustrating another side by starving them of possession, thus taking very little risk and resembling an annoying as fook training drill, is it any surprise plenty of fans find you boring as feck?

He’s almost as bad as Jose for me, give me Klopp’s football any day over watching Pep’s paint dry.

 

[adexkola]

It depends on the PR. Some media still act as if Pep has reinvented football. And you look at arteta who has managed to make pep's version even more boring and you have some calling a defensive mastercall. Well Jose used to deliver it and was called out as parking the bus and today was no different.

You are right in the PR narrative and unfairness to Jose (partly, his later career at Chelsea and United was pure haram beyond one off matches)

That aside, this match was simply the result of both managers (who were on the same team for a few years) being scared shitless of the threat from the counter. Arteta scarred from the match at the Emirates the previous season. Pep scarred from... the football equivalent of 'Nam

You did not state this exactly, but I think the sentiment is there and I want to say it out loud; this match played out exactly like 2 people playing a FIFA game on PlayStation; take risks there, do exactly as I say here. Both managers will have very little to complain about here, as their instructions were followed to the letter and threats from both sides were snuffed out. But as a young player, is that what you aspire to? Being controlled like a player on FIFA? I'm exaggerating a bit but you get my point.

This is the correct approach from the managerial perspective, for now. This will 9 times out of 10 beat vibes and inshallah teams with similar talent, or teams that allow for more improvisation, but eventually there will be a convergence of tactics until you have 20 teams playing the same way (or 19 teams, and the 1 managed by Moyes playing different) and more games like this will happen.

And this is why I'll never forgive you all for chasing Diniz out the game, because his ideas are potentially a blizzard of fresh air over the staleness of today's positional choked football

 

[Red Star One]

it's been quite an embarrassing evening for me as I'm home for Easter and I put the City - Arsenal game on the TV today, my father that's a big Bundesliga fan (and I mock him for that because it's been ages that the German league was relevant or interesting) was laughing his ass off saying that if I watch this English shit every weekend I must be quite a miserable football fan to be honest, I find City quite entertaining to watch myself, I don't mind their methodic way and I wasn't even bored by Spain and their vertical play in Euro 2012 which tells a lot. But for the neutrals I guess it's really a very unsexy football brand they serve.

 

[AshRK]

You are right in the PR narrative and unfairness to Jose (partly, his later career at Chelsea and United was pure haram beyond one off matches)

That aside, this match was simply the result of both managers (who were on the same team for a few years) being scared shitless of the threat from the counter. Arteta scarred from the match at the Emirates the previous season. Pep scarred from... the football equivalent of 'Nam

You did not state this exactly, but I think the sentiment is there and I want to say it out loud; this match played out exactly like 2 people playing a FIFA game on PlayStation; take risks there, do exactly as I say here. Both managers will have very little to complain about here, as their instructions were followed to the letter and threats from both sides were snuffed out. But as a young player, is that what you aspire to? Being controlled like a player on FIFA? I'm exaggerating a bit but you get my point.

This is the correct approach from the managerial perspective, for now. This will 9 times out of 10 beat vibes and inshallah teams with similar talent, or teams that allow for more improvisation, but eventually there will be a convergence of tactics until you have 20 teams playing the same way (or 19 teams, and the 1 managed by Moyes playing different) and more games like this will happen.

And this is why I'll never forgive you all for chasing Diniz out the game, because his ideas are potentially a blizzard of fresh air over the staleness of today's positional choked football

Well put. And that is my biggest problem with the game becoming robotic.

I know he manages Liverpool but for me give me Klopp's football especially from 2018 to 2020 than what we saw today.

 

[DennisReynolds]

Barcelona were definitely not boring. Bayern, had entertaining games but didn't see enough domestically to really comment.

City are very boring. They play sterile football, nowhere near enough risks taken and they just grind lesser teams into submission.

 

[subotai]

You are right in the PR narrative and unfairness to Jose (partly, his later career at Chelsea and United was pure haram beyond one off matches)

That aside, this match was simply the result of both managers (who were on the same team for a few years) being scared shitless of the threat from the counter. Arteta scarred from the match at the Emirates the previous season. Pep scarred from... the football equivalent of 'Nam

You did not state this exactly, but I think the sentiment is there and I want to say it out loud; this match played out exactly like 2 people playing a FIFA game on PlayStation; take risks there, do exactly as I say here. Both managers will have very little to complain about here, as their instructions were followed to the letter and threats from both sides were snuffed out. But as a young player, is that what you aspire to? Being controlled like a player on FIFA? I'm exaggerating a bit but you get my point.

This is the correct approach from the managerial perspective, for now. This will 9 times out of 10 beat vibes and inshallah teams with similar talent, or teams that allow for more improvisation, but eventually there will be a convergence of tactics until you have 20 teams playing the same way (or 19 teams, and the 1 managed by Moyes playing different) and more games like this will happen.

And this is why I'll never forgive you all for chasing Diniz out the game, because his ideas are potentially a blizzard of fresh air over the staleness of today's positional choked football

As someone who has very little clue about football, could you please summarise what this was all about for me?

 

[Fts 74]

Tika Taka has always been boring imo, City are coached to death pass pass pass pass pass, suffocate the opposition nullify any threat first then bore them into making a mistake eventually. Klopp with his chaotic style is far more entertaining.

 

[Jeffthered]

Yes, v boring game. Both sides look limited, lack spark.. this is the last season with this city team. Needs to freshen up.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Not at all personally

But his side this season are much worse attacking wise than the prior few seasons

 

[El Jefe]

The sad part is he knows how to get his teams playing exciting football, he's done it many times in his career but his hard-on for control won't allow him to do that anymore. He'd rather play four CBs and 6 midfielders now and keep 75% possession knowing the odds are overwhelmingly in his favour in winning if they have that much of the ball.

He once had attacks of Messi Eto'o Henry, Sane Aguero Sterling, Ribery Lewandowski Muller Robben. It didn't feel like those players were as restricted as the current batch have been.

He won the treble last year so ultimately his approach is right but Man City games are unbearable to watch for the most part especially if KDB isn't in form.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

They are football eunuchs without passion.

 

[Cabin Clown]

I find City's football incredibly boring and his affect on football from a spectators POV has been detrimental. I felt Spain's dominance a decade ago was influenced from him and good God were they a slog to look at. Not knocking his achievements, great manager obviously.

 

[adexkola]

As someone who has very little clue about football, could you please summarise what this was all about for me?

We all have close to zero clue

I'm saying that the game is converting towards extreme control and stasis in these high level matchups, the rigid tactics offering much less room for players to be themselves and improvise. To what extent this is bad for football depends on who you ask. Also, great username

 

[adexkola]

The sad part is he knows how to get his teams playing exciting football, he's done it many times in his career but his hard-on for control won't allow him to do that anymore. He'd rather play four CBs and 6 midfielders now and keep 75% possession knowing the odds are overwhelmingly in his favour in winning if they have that much of the ball.

He once had attacks of Messi Eto'o Henry, Sane Aguero Sterling, Ribery Lewandowski Muller Robben. It didn't feel like those players were as restricted as the current batch have been.

He won the treble last year so ultimately his approach is right but Man City games are unbearable to watch for the most part especially if KDB isn't in form.

Yes because he's been burned plenty of times in games where control has gotten away from him and his team. The solution (pragmatic, as some would annoyingly say) is to reduce those moments in games where chaos abounds, while still giving his team the opportunity to generate attacking opportunities through positional play and individual skill sets. No manager on earth would choose a style of play that lessened their chances of winning in pursuit of some abstract point on art.

Also, games are played by 2 teams. Boring games are just as much the responsibility of the sides Pep's teams play. I'd say they own the lions share, because in most cases one is looking to progress the ball and create chances and it usually isn't the other team.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Unless you're an aspiring coach why do you watch it?

I certainly don't watch them or Liverpool .

 

[adexkola]

Unless you're an aspiring coach why do you watch it?

I certainly don't watch them or Liverpool .

Because there are people who enjoy watching football beyond what their own team put out on any given Saturfay/Sunday?

Plus, there is a middle ground between aspiring coach and "I don't give a feck about tactics"

 

[subotai]

We all have close to zero clue

I'm saying that the game is converting towards extreme control and stasis in these high level matchups, the rigid tactics offering much less room for players to be themselves and improvise. To what extent this is bad for football depends on who you ask. Also, great username

Thanks very much, I agree that the move towards ruthless efficency can detract from the spectacle of the game, for sure. I was being lazy about Diniz, though - will look him up with our favourite search engine.
Thanks for the username comment. Still my favourite film of all time. The old one, not the new one, obviously. Will make the effort to read some of the books at some point.

 

[sangria]

Thanks very much, I agree that the move towards ruthless efficency can detract from the spectacle of the game, for sure. I was being lazy about Diniz, though - will look him up with our favourite search engine.
Thanks for the username comment. Still my favourite film of all time. The old one, not the new one, obviously. Will make the effort to read some of the books at some point.

What film is it? I only know of the name as a Mongol general.

 

[adexkola]

Thanks very much, I agree that the move towards ruthless efficency can detract from the spectacle of the game, for sure. I was being lazy about Diniz, though - will look him up with our favourite search engine.
Thanks for the username comment. Still my favourite film of all time. The old one, not the new one, obviously. Will make the effort to read some of the books at some point.

Oh! So Diniz is a Brazilian coach who's "pioneered" this idea of Relationism, which is the polar opposite of positional play. Positional play relies on following strict instructions regarding position, runs and so on. Relationism is in theory more fluid and improvisational, squeezing players into smaller spaces and giving them the tools to make decisions based on what they are presented with.

Diniz won the Copa Libertadores with Fluminese. Brazil, hungry for a return to the Joga Bonito days, hired him as their national coach. Doesn't go well, they lose matches, he gets called a fraud and is fired. And with that a massive challenge to how football is played today is binned for the time being

 

[adexkola]

What film is it? I only know of the name as a Mongol general.

Same, from AOE2 and from history books, Genghis Khan's best general

 

[subotai]

What film is it? I only know of the name as a Mongol general.

Conan the Barbarian - 1982. I know of the general, but that's something I found out years later. I can't claim any knowledge of ancient warfare and tactics, much as I'd like to.