Do you agree with the protest today?

[Flying high]

I just explained that the problem is way deeper and a cute little action like yesterday is just a droplet of water in an ocean.

What do you expect? Even if they Glazers were selling, what then? Who would buy from them and will that person do everything better? I don't think so.

It's just way to shortsighted to call for a changing of guard without presenting a worthy alternative.

Yes it's way deeper. It's not a simple fix. etc etc etfc No single action will make enough difference to get football to a place most of us older fans yearn for.

But again I have to ask you, why belittle the attempts of those trying(maybe in vain, who knows yet) to pull us all back in the right direction? Maybe you are 100% convinced that the battle is completely lost and that no action can ever make even the slightest difference. Well, if that is the case, just keep it to yourself. Don't come on here and push your case like it's an argument to be won. It's taken many years to finally get a critical amount of us to the point where we have to take a stand. Don't shit on it, please.

 

[Chicken United 7]

I’ve already said that while I’m endlessly proud of the peaceful protesters yesterday, I’m also irritated at the clown who broke Covid bubbles, attacked police and seek attention by sitting on the net etc, tarnishing a great day for Manchester United FC, not PLC.

What has really wound me up though is many opposition fans, namely City and Arsenal (Pool fans have strangely been alright this time as far as I’m aware) painting every fan with the same brush. It’s like every United entered the dressing rooms, broke cameras and punched policemen. Do the Arsenal fans not realise that we generally set an example for them as to how to get rid of Kroenke? At least the AFTV crew seem to be aware of that.

 

[C'mon FC]

Yes it's way deeper. It's not a simple fix. etc etc etfc No single action will make enough difference to get football to a place most of us older fans yearn for.

But again I have to ask you, why belittle the attempts of those trying(maybe in vain, who knows yet) to pull us all back in the right direction? Maybe you are 100% convinced that the battle is completely lost and that no action can ever make even the slightest difference. Well, if that is the case, just keep it to yourself. Don't come on here and push your case like it's an argument to be won. It's taken many years to finally get a critical amount of us to the point where we have to take a stand. Don't shit on it, please.

Why do you think I'm belittling their attempt?
My original post is rather an analizes of the situation, nothing more nothing less.

 

[alexthelion]

Only Republicans and Tories dont support the protest

Bollocks!

Only insane people support the vandals and the violent.

 

[vivaronaldo]

116 brainwashed glazer fans exist on the page - wow

 

[alexthelion]

Some of the reactions are hilarious tbh. "These protest won't achieve anything" "So you think this makes Glazers to sell the club" and all that.

So what should the ManUtd local fans do? Sit idle and hope something happens magically?

These are the fans who represent the club, the people for whom ManUtd is part of the family and part of their culture, attending every game home and away for years.

Easy to come up with nonsense like 'So what, these protests won't achieve anything", at least they care enough to move their arse from their comfortable couch to protest, to try and do something. It might lead to something when it snowballs into bigger protest or it might fade away but what's wrong in trying?

Even more hilarious and pathetic is people moaning about their sundays "Oh no, it ruined my sunday. I planned my day around this game".

Protest against the PL/FA and get them to change their ownership rules?

Just going for a jolly on the OT pitch and glassing a copper isn't going to make anything happen, except turn neutrals against us.

 

[KD6-3.7]

100% agree. I’ve always felt the Old Trafford crowd have let The Glazers have it easy especially since SAF left.

 

[alexthelion]

116 brainwashed glazer fans exist on the page - wow

How many brainless idiots who want rid of the Glazers but don't care about the consequences?

 

[Rightnr]

fair point, I just think the level of violence, detracts from the point.

You keep going on about this level of violence but you've provided zero to no examples? Do you expect everything in life to be black-and-white?

There were 10000 people at the protest yesterday. Less than 5% got into the stadium (which I support despite it being technically illegal, we've seen worse from oppo fans in recent years e.g. WHU), and of those 5%, maybe 5% (and I'm being generous) did damage to the club or got into a scuffle.

I've only seen one instance of violence against a policeman where it was strange he wasn't wearing riot gear since the protest was approved and organised weeks in advance. Also, the club in its typical money-pinching fashion didn't even hire extra security, expecting it all to arrogantly blow over. Again, completely unprepared.

I don't condone any violence or destruction of property because it detracts from the message. Having said all that, at which point do you consider throwing the baby with the bathwater in this case? Do you expect 0 incidents, which may not even always be provoked by fans anyway, before you can support this movement?

 

[steffyr2]

116 brainwashed glazer fans exist on the page - wow

Now 118.
There are drunk vandals in lots of places, these aren't special.
Wonder how Manchester businesses would feel about a boycott of Old Trafford.

btw, the game should be forfeited or it will happen more here and elsewhere.

 

[alexthelion]

You keep going on about this level of violence but you've provided zero to no examples? Do you expect everything in life to be black-and-white?

There were 10000 people at the protest yesterday. Less than 5% got into the stadium (which I support despite it being technically illegal, we've seen worse from oppo fans in recent years e.g. WHU), and of those 5%, maybe 5% (and I'm being generous) did damage to the club or got into a scuffle.

I've only seen one instance of violence against a policeman where it was strange he wasn't wearing riot gear since the protest was approved and organised weeks in advance. Also, the club in its typical money-pinching fashion didn't even hire extra security, expecting it all to arrogantly blow over. Again, completely unprepared.

I don't condone any violence or destruction of property because it detracts from the message. Having said all that, at which point do you consider throwing the baby with the bathwater in this case? Do you expect 0 incidents, which may not even always be provoked by fans anyway, before you can support this movement?

So now it's the cops fault for being injured by a thug?

 

[Rightnr]

So now it's the cops fault for being injured by a thug?

I told you to stop lying and I'll repeat it again.

I said it was strange the authorities were not prepared since that's their job. I did not say it was the police officer who was at fault.

Seriously, can't you read?

 

[VanHaal'sRedArmy]

Keep it up and don't turn down the volume. Every football fan should voice their displeasure at the current reality of football.

 

[Red_toad]

Protest 100% yes, no problem with it and most there were peaceful. but this is not
One Policeman suffered a fractured eye socket, while another sustained a wound to his face and needed hospital treatment.
The force said another officer was dragged and kicked.
Seen the video of the Police, that is not right either.
Violence solves nothing, it won't make them sell.

Next demonstration will attract people who’ll just be there to cause trouble and the Police will be on edge after attacks on their colleagues.

 

[tenpoless]

I am an armchair supporter so i could easily say it will achieve nothing and be done with it, its not something I am involved in nor will it have an immediate impact. But I dont want to say that and I dont think thats fair. The protesters are mostly the locals. ManUtd to them is not just a football team or something on your tv screen, their generations support United, they live and die supporting the club and if was in their position and some greedy American came and bought the club, something that my family holds dear, while doing more damage than good to the club for about a decade, while I witnessed it all then I'd be pissed off too. I would join the protest if I was a local. Put yourself in their position and you most likely would too. Regarding idiots who did vandalism, there will always be them in such a big crowd. Not all of the protesters are idiots.

 

[The Boy]

As a football fan, I fully support the protest outside and inside OT, having protested myself for the soul of my club and broken into the ground during that protest (The Goldstone, many years ago!) I completely get the frustrations and anger from the fans.

The trouble is that the rights and wrings of these protests often become irrelevant in the eyes of the wider public and it all comes down to perception or as politicians call it optics. The fact that two policemen got hurt gives those against the protestors a chance to change that perception and that very quickly it overtakes the protests. It's a classic tactic that's happened millions of times in the past and regardless of whether 99.9% of the protestors were peaceful, the story of violence is what people take away.

Good luck to you though, I hope it makes the difference you want. For us it did in the end, but it was a fecking long and difficult journey to get the club back on its feet and then we were finally lucky enough to be bought by a fan.

 

[Micky Targaryen]

I picked undecided because I don't necessarily agree with how the protest went and unfortunately I think it will not achieve much. A better way to protest is hit them where it hurts ie. financially, which is to boycott every game. Unfortunately I think that won't happen either.

 

[rollingstoned1]

Realistically, now or in 2005 how feasible would it have been for some official fan group to do a whip round and obtain a veto in the club? 4bn or so that is being thrown around for selling the club is too prohibitive in this environment for anyone who doesn't have state backing. I remember reading that LUHG tried something to that effect around 2010/11.

 

[Verbalkint]

I don't understand where this talk of 'violence came from. Gary Neville and Carragher, a Scouser at that both agreed that the protests were peaceful. I'm willing to bet that any violence was kicked off by the police. What do you expect fans to do when a bunch of cops give you the baton? Run, hide, fight back. All very real possibilities. There's always going to be a point where it's blatantly clear that people outnumber the cops. That's when someone is bound to get hurt.

 

[georgipep]

You keep going on about this level of violence but you've provided zero to no examples? Do you expect everything in life to be black-and-white?

There were 10000 people at the protest yesterday. Less than 5% got into the stadium (which I support despite it being technically illegal, we've seen worse from oppo fans in recent years e.g. WHU), and of those 5%, maybe 5% (and I'm being generous) did damage to the club or got into a scuffle.

I've only seen one instance of violence against a policeman where it was strange he wasn't wearing riot gear since the protest was approved and organised weeks in advance. Also, the club in its typical money-pinching fashion didn't even hire extra security, expecting it all to arrogantly blow over. Again, completely unprepared.

I don't condone any violence or destruction of property because it detracts from the message. Having said all that, at which point do you consider throwing the baby with the bathwater in this case? Do you expect 0 incidents, which may not even always be provoked by fans anyway, before you can support this movement?

Using other examples to justify violence and criminal behavior is...not right. Some people have invaded Poland, so that makes it ok I guess?

 

[arnie_ni]

 

[Dan_F]

I picked undecided because I don't necessarily agree with how the protest went and unfortunately I think it will not achieve much. A better way to protest is hit them where it hurts ie. financially, which is to boycott every game. Unfortunately I think that won't happen either.

Impossible. People have season tickets paid for in advance, that they’ve owned for years. Even if they decided to give them up there’s a queue of people behind them that will happily take it and sit in that seat.

If you’re talking about tv, it just won’t happen.

 

[Water Melon]

Detailed info about how the leeches have been carrying out their parasitic and blood-sucking ownership.

 

[Kostov]

Nothing but persistent and serious protests will force these leeches away from the club. Hats off to the fans who are there and try to make a change despite numerous risks.

 

[romufc]

I think this weekend has shown true colours of some TV companies, presenters and journalist and why fans may lose this battle again.

When the superleague proposal came out, Sky, PL, Journalists (Shearer etc) all came out condemning it and calling for fans and ran with a narrative "fans game"

THis weekend has shown that they dont care about the fans, they only care about their revenue and wages.

Carragher and Neville proved that they are fans first, pundits second. Souness, Jenas showed they have 0 knowledge of football.

Carragher's piece summarised it completely.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Nothing but persistent and serious protests will force these leeches away from the club. Hats off to the fans who are there and try to make a change despite numerous risks.

Careful now, at least one poster seems to think they’re all thugs and vandals

 

[rimaldo]

this should be all anyone needs to know to see and why the glazers should go. really baffles me to see so many supporting them or arguing we might lose a few league positions if the protests are too hard or effect the club too much. “if we force the glazers out, we might have to finish 10th, we’ll never recover.”

i mean it’s not a plane crash that decimates a team on the verge of european domination. how would we recover? we could never do that.

we’ve already had some fallow years in terms of where we want to be, with the money that’s heading out of the club can you really say we will keep pace at the top?

look how many clubs have already overtaken us from where we were when we were purchased. we’re treading water and hoping for the best. i think most agree we are 3 or 4 world class players away from competing at the top table. that’s three or four years based on the current spending model. that’s also assuming all the players bought would be a success. many other clubs will operate at that same level too and we’re back to relying on managerial genius or the academy to be the differentiator. i don’t think we have to look very far across manchester to see a club maybe in a better position than us in terms of that already.

under the glazers we’ve gone from head of the pack to the back of the chasing pack. this goes beyond what happens in the next 2-3 years. look another 10-15 years ahead, what have we seen from the glazers so far to assume we will in any better place by then?

 

[diarm]

So now it's the cops fault for being injured by a thug?

Can someone change this fellas tagline to: "Can't Read. Won't Read"

 

[the_answer]

How have you been treated as an idiot by rich billionaires?

Just look at wealth and income distributions in the US, UK, Germany, Korea etc. over time.
Look at how "common people" face jail time for tax fraud, while billionaires write the rules so they pay 0 tax.

And now look how we as football fans (we the people who provide the players, atmosphere, the consumers, the culture, etc.) are not being respected at all.

 

[georgipep]

Just look at wealth and income distributions in the US, UK, Germany, Korea etc. over time.
Look at how "common people" face jail time for tax fraud, while billionaires write the rules so they pay 0 tax.

And now look how we as football fans (we the people who provide the players, atmosphere, the consumers, the culture, etc.) are not being respected at all.

We, the people, elect officials that make those rules, however. And a main theme in the protest now is to institute the 50+1 rule which would eventually mean elections for club leadership. So you don't like and trust the people who make the rules but you would trust the people who would run the club? Even if they are elected in the same way?

Also, the players ("we provide" is a stretch, by that logic, we also provide the billionaires...) are treated very well. I don't see any injustice there.

As for the consumers, well, then take actions with your consumption. Stop supporting billionaires.

 

[the_answer]

I think you see the protests as protests from United fans to improve the situation at Man United so we can challenge for silverware again. What you care about is whether this can help United to win the CL or PL again.
While for me its a symptom of a bigger societal issue.
That's the difference of our views.

We, the people, elect officials that make those rules, however. And a main theme in the protest now is to institute the 50+1 rule which would eventually mean elections for club leadership. So you don't like and trust the people who make the rules but you would trust the people who would run the club? Even if they are elected in the same way?

I wouldn't trust them one bit to be honest. But I do believe there might be greater accountability and at least a system in place to change club leadership if needed. The more participation we have, the more we can voice our opinion and the more power we have.
Same reason I prefer to vote for the leadership of a country AND still vote for the leadership of my state AND the "leadership" of my city.

Also, the players ("we provide" is a stretch, by that logic, we also provide the billionaires...) are treated very well. I don't see any injustice there.

Id argue most players are from very common backgrounds (lets just take the 3 best Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar) and (a very small minority that make it) are on a good salary but still not owning the "company".
So I am talking about the dichotomy between people who work and provide everything and people who just live off our work.
You can be treated very well as a player, but you are still just a commodity, a number on Ed Woodwards Excel Sheet.

As for the consumers, well, then take actions with your consumption. Stop supporting billionaires.

As a consumer and fan I am exactly doing that. Not consuming football, not buying overly expensive football jerseys etc.
And I am glad that football fans are also taking action to hurt those billionaires.

But as consumers we can only do so much.
What we can do however is take matters in our hands and I am glad that the fans are taking back what truly belongs to us.

What historically we did on the continent (I am not sure how you Brits were holding your nobility accountable) was to bring out the Guillotine. So we remind those who own the places we work at, the houses we live in, the clubs that we watch football at... that in the end we own all of it and we might come get it. Those fan protests are a way to remind our billionaire owners and overlords, that we the common people wont let them take us for idiots anymore.)

 

[georgipep]

I think you see the protests as protests from United fans to improve the situation at Man United so we can challenge for silverware again. What you care about is whether this can help United to win the CL or PL again.
While for me its a symptom of a bigger societal issue.
That's the difference of our views.

Not really. I am not too fussed about us winning or not winning trophies. I think we probably have the biggest chance of winning stuff with the Saudi crown prince as owner. But I do not want that to happen. Ever.

For me, the problem is with the logic of challenging private property and not having a real plan. People are shouting "Glazers OUT" without an actual plan on how that could happen and what comes next. "We'll figure it out" doesn't move me at all. 50+1 is not my cup of tea too.

I wouldn't trust them one bit to be honest. But I do believe there might be greater accountability and at least a system in place to change club leadership if needed. The more participation we have, the more we can voice our opinion and the more power we have.
Same reason I prefer to vote for the leadership of a country AND still vote for the leadership of my state AND the "leadership" of my city.

"we can voice our opinion" is probably true to some extent but I don't agree with the opinion of the majority so I doubt I'll be too happy with that either. And when it comes to elected officials and leadership, I'm pretty sure that the winners in such elections will be the ones who promise what the majority want to hear. I am certain that will not be in the club's best interests in the long-term.

Id argue most players are from very common backgrounds (lets just take the 3 best Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar) and (a very small minority that make it) are on a good salary but still not owning the "company".
So I am talking about the dichotomy between people who work and provide everything and people who just live off our work.
You can be treated very well as a player, but you are still just a commodity, a number on Ed Woodwards Excel Sheet.

Well, that's how business works though. Everybody is a number on somebody's excel sheet. That's what planning is all about. And we all live off other people's work in a sense too. Some are lucky to be in circumstances that allow them to start much higher on the ladder, other start at the bottom. While the percentage of self-made billionaires is much lower than the percentage of footballers that came from humble beginnings, it doesn't mean "we the people" own or have claim over anything.

As a consumer and fan I am exactly doing that. Not consuming football, not buying overly expensive football jerseys etc.
And I am glad that football fans are also taking action to hurt those billionaires.

But as consumers we can only do so much.
What we can do however is take matters in our hands and I am glad that the fans are taking back what truly belongs to us.

What historically we did on the continent (I am not sure how you Brits were holding your nobility accountable) was to bring out the Guillotine. So we remind those who own the places we work at, the houses we live in, the clubs that we watch football at... that in the end we own all of it and we might come get it. Those fan protests are a way to remind our billionaire owners and overlords, that we the common people wont let them take us for idiots anymore.)

Even though I do not support the protest and generally do not want a change of owners at any cost, I also do not participate in the consumer cycle. I take a lot of issues with modern capitalism but that doesn't mean I would gather a pack of angry frenzied people to storm headquarters of businesses I disagree with. If that works, it would actually be detrimental as it would set a precedent that using force works against law. And I do fear that I would stand to lose a lot more than I would gain in the long run.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

In fairness, I don't think owners pouring money into a club so that it spends beyond its means is a good thing. We have seen loads of examples of owners of clubs pouring money into a club, just for that funding to be cut leaving a club to basically implode. look at Sunderland, Portsmouth, QPR, Leeds, Blackburn..... equally the current spending of clubs like Everton or Villa is not sustainable as it's beyond the clubs means and should not be trumped as good ownership.

The issue with Glazers is not that they aren't pouring money into the club, it's the amount they are taking out of the club!

 

[Yakuza_devils]

So glad to know that overwhelming majority 82.8% support the protest. Very rarely this forum can agree on something with such high votes count.

Hope the protest will continue until the leeches are out.

 

[alexthelion]

Can someone change this fellas tagline to: "Can't Read. Won't Read"

After you change yours to "record stuck, won't listen to another opinion".

 

[diarm]

After you change yours to "record stuck, won't listen to another opinion".

I listen to plenty of opinions mate. I also read what people are saying before I spew every page with nonsense that misses every point I'm trying to hit.

 

[alexthelion]

I listen to plenty of opinions mate. I also read what people are saying before I spew every page with nonsense that misses every point I'm trying to hit.