Do we need another right back as well?

R0nald0 said:
No.

We have adequate cover in Fabio.

We also need to consider who we could attract as cover for Rafael. They will know they are only coming in as cover so in reality,we'd only attract either somebody young (can't imagine anybody better than Fabio or Varela as young talent) or a versatile player who can get games in a number of positions (can't imagine we could get anybody better than Jones/Valencia) or a journeyman after a pay day (who would be better than what we have?).
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Are people citing Fabio as adequate cover blind or have they been living under a rock for the last year?

He has "played" 2 games for us this year, 1 in the League and 1 in the League Cup. The League Cup game consisted of about 3 minutes of football against Norwich when he came on for Januzaj in the 90th minute while the League game was 5 months ago and since then he has only even made the bench 5 times. Now in what world does that constitute "adequate cover"?
 
Pexbo said:
Are people citing Fabio as adequate cover blind or have they been living under a rock for the last year?

He has "played" 2 games for us this year, 1 in the League and 1 in the League Cup. The League Cup game consisted of about 3 minutes of football against Norwich when he came on for Januzaj in the 90th minute while the League game was 5 months ago and since then he has only even made the bench 5 times. Now in what world does that constitute "adequate cover"?
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You only really focussed on 5% of my post - if you think what we have isn't good enough, could you recommend somebody who will come in as a back up who is considerably better than the current options? I say considerably as surely we won't waste a squad place or money on somebody slightly better than the current back up.
 
Vermijl is quality and I'd happily have him as cover for Rafael.

Then you have Varela who looks quality too.
 
R0nald0 said:
You only really focussed on 5% of my post - if you think what we have isn't good enough, could you recommend somebody who will come in as a back up who is considerably better than the current options? I say considerably as surely we won't waste a squad place or money on somebody slightly better than the current back up.
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That's besides the point. The question is do we need another right back, not who is available and for what sort of value?


The point is that Smalling and Jones, our two backup right back's offer nothing going forward from that position and it severely hampers our attacking play down the right. The other option, Valencia, is an absolute liability defensively. Being a right winger that can support your right back is entirely different to being a right back.
 
Genius Me! said:
Vermijl is quality and I'd happily have him as cover for Rafael.

Then you have Varela who looks quality too.
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Vermijl is on a season long loan though and Varela is on compassionate leave and possibly looking at a loan back home given what has happened with his parents. They're not currently viable options.
 
LR7 said:
Vermijl is on a season long loan though and Varela is on compassionate leave and possibly looking at a loan back home given what has happened with his parents. They're not currently viable options.
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Well yeah, but I don't see the point in signing a right back this january when we have decent options for next season.

It's never a good idea to do that IMO because then you end up with all these extra players and you have to accomodate them.

As much as I hate seeing Smalling and Valencia and Jones at right back, I'd rather just use them when we have to this season and then promote from within the academy next season.

It's not as if we're talking about putting in players as first team choices, we're just talking cover for 1 player. And ffs we still have Fabio that can be used. Why he's not being used is beyond me, but he's a natural full back, he should be used.
 
Genius Me! said:
Well yeah, but I don't see the point in signing a right back this january when we have decent options for next season.

It's never a good idea to do that IMO because then you end up with all these extra players and you have to accomodate them.

As much as I hate seeing Smalling and Valencia and Jones at right back, I'd rather just use them when we have to this season and then promote from within the academy next season.

It's not as if we're talking about putting in players as first team choices, we're just talking cover for 1 player. And ffs we still have Fabio that can be used. Why he's not being used is beyond me, but he's a natural full back, he should be used.
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Yeah I don't think we should buy a RB either. It'd be buying cover for Rafael when we have very good cover in Fabio, we just inexplicably don't play him.
 
LR7 said:
Yeah I don't think we should buy a RB either. It'd be buying cover for Rafael when we have very good cover in Fabio, we just inexplicably don't play him.
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Personally, I think it's because Moyes prefers to play inferior players and let the better ones relax. I mean we're talking about a player who managed to play 23 times for QPR last year, he's obviously a bit special.
 
No. Realitically, outside the realms of Football Manager 2014, you cannot have two superstar players for each position. Valenica is perfectly adequate cover as is, despite recent hysteria, Smalling. We already have replacement and rotation options at the club.
 
I think we do need another right back. With us phasing Rio and Vidic out then we don't want to have to keep using Smalling/Jones at right back as we often end up with no defenders in reserve, plus I think fullbacks are too important in how we play. I'm not sure why Fabio can't be that guy but he's not rated for some reason, though we've got a few young right backs in the reserves so maybe some of them can understudy Rafael.
 
Plugsy said:
No. Realitically, outside the realms of Football Manager 2014, you cannot have two superstar players for each position. Valenica is perfectly adequate cover as is, despite recent hysteria, Smalling. We already have replacement and rotation options at the club.
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Valencia, like Buttner, always has mistakes in him defensicely. It only takes that one time that he falls asleep for us to concede.

You could argue that Evra also has lapses in defence, but we can't use another players shortfall to justify another players selection.

Against weaker opposition maybe, but against a half decent side he'll be exposed for the winger he is.

if it's any consolation to Valencia, he's a better full back than Buttner by a country mile. But that says more about Shitener than it does about Valencia.
 
Ash_G said:
I think we do need another right back. With us phasing Rio and Vidic out then we don't want to have to keep using Smalling/Jones at right back as we often end up with no defenders in reserve, plus I think fullbacks are too important in how we play. I'm not sure why Fabio can't be that guy but he's not rated for some reason, though we've got a few young right backs in the reserves so maybe some of them can understudy Rafael.
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Sums up my feelings exactly. We should be using Smalling and Evans as first choice now. For me it's no coincidence that previous to the Tottenham loss and dire showing at Norwich, we had Rafael playing well down the right with Smalling and Evans a solid partnership and pressing high. It had balance and it had confidence.

Rafael got injured and the next two games we had trouble on the wings, we had poor shape and little confidence to press and own the midfield. It's clear as day what sort of a difference having a proper right back has.
 
Ish84045 said:
We have one IMO - yet he can't seem to get a minute playing time :lol:

He must really have regressed over the past 2 seasons :(
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I don't recall him being terrible at QPR. Okay he's likely to not be at Rafael's level, but he must be adequate enough cover.

I've seen enough of Fabio and Buttner to know who's the better left back, and I've seen enough of Smalling, Jones and Valencia at right back to know Fabio would be a better option.
 
Pexbo said:
Sums up my feelings exactly. We should be using Smalling and Evans as first choice now. For me it's no coincidence that previous to the Tottenham loss and dire showing at Norwich, we had Rafael playing well down the right with Smalling and Evans a solid partnership and pressing high. It had balance and it had confidence.

Rafael got injured and the next two games we had trouble on the wings, we had poor shape and little confidence to press and own the midfield. It's clear as day what sort of a difference having a proper right back has.
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Yeah especially for us atm where on the right most the players who play there need a good right back for various reasons. Valencia/Young are very reliant on them to help them create space and Januzaj needs them to keep the width as he will want to cut in.
 
We need a left back, a midfielder (possibly two) and arguably a top winger more than we need a right back.

Sure, it's not nice to have to rely on center backs as our backups there but I'd be slightly worried if that was a position Moyes was looking to invest in over the ones above.
 
Our record with Rafael out says we do, so many mistakes from Smalling and Valencia along with them not offering enough going forward this season.

We could always use Fabio as RB/LB cover and solve two major issues with our team but for whatever reason that isn't going to happen. Jones is competent enough at RB we've just had to use him in CM this season due to our other weaknesses, signing a decent midfielder should mean he's available to cover RB going forward.
 
Jones would be absolutely wasted at RB and isn't good enough there.

Whereas with some real game time at DM he will prove to be an absolutely top class DM and in time prove to be a world class CB.

At RB he's average at best and a complete waste of his talents.
 
Genius Me! said:
Jones would be absolutely wasted at RB and isn't good enough there.

Whereas with some real game time at DM he will prove to be an absolutely top class DM and in time prove to be a world class CB.

At RB he's average at best and a complete waste of his talents.
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I agree but once our midfield is sorted he'll be back to not having a regular spot. Playing a few games at RB whilst Rafael is out wont do him any harm and he'll have to sacrifice himself. He's not a liability as fullback and his crossing isn't too bad, definitely our best option behind the twins
 
I think our existing lineup is fine, but if Vidić or Valencia leave, we will need to replace them so that we can either moves Jones or Smalling to right-back, or the new winger can move to right-back as required.

Ideally, we'd find someone like Barcelona's Adriano, who can play on the wing as well as full-back. Fábio might be able to play such a role, but I'm not expecting him to be here next season.

Sure, Jones, Smalling or Valencia at right-back isn't ideal, but it's difficult to see how we can keep two great right-backs happy.
 
datura said:
Varela was looking promising but has returned to Uruguay for the time being for personal reasons and I doubt we'd see him back this season.

Janko has looked good, but still work to do on his defensive game before he's exposed to top level football.
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Thanks. So at RB the overall situation is no where near as dire as the LB situation.
 
I've seen moments from Blackett where his lapse in concentration has resulted in goals against Blackpool.

Such a shame, I had such high hopes for him but I don't see him making it here unless he can improve on that aspect.

He's strong though I'll give him that, and he has a bullet shot on him.
 
We need a first choice RB IMO. Rafael is great but his fitness record is worrying. Last season seems to be an anomaly and he's returned to being injury prone this season.

Smalling shouldn't be an option. He doesn't offer much offensively. Besides, he's getting at an age where he needs to play in his natural position.
 
We'll need someone on the right side like Patrice Evra who done some absolutely majestic work through almost 10 years now. If we could find someone in our own neighbourhood like Neville it would be even better.

That being said Rafael can be that type of player for us in the future so if boss shall decide to try more depth on defensive wings I'm sure it won't get too crowded.

Guillermo Varela already played some promising football for younger Uruguay but we have to wait more for his first team debut in Premier League. If Moyes will find someone I hope that lad will be even better footballer than Rafael. Competition inside the team will make it better for everybody and that's exactly what United needs to return to good old form.
 
Kag said:
Could and should be sorted for the next decade. Only Moyes can explain why that isn't the case.

Anyway, in short, not right now. Valencia is generally decent there. I prefer him at full back than on the wing and I wouldn't be averse to making this a full time transition as cover. Hopefully Varela can step up soon.

If not, then an older, experienced player that's happy to sit on the bench wouldn't be such a bad idea.
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Valencia isn't good enough in either position. Backup at best, and yes we need to address RB (of course Varela's being good could be the solution - I haven't the foggiest about the guy.)
 
We actually have a player called Fabio, get him more involved for god sake.
 
Genius Me! said:
I don't recall him being terrible at QPR. Okay he's likely to not be at Rafael's level, but he must be adequate enough cover.

I've seen enough of Fabio and Buttner to know who's the better left back, and I've seen enough of Smalling, Jones and Valencia at right back to know Fabio would be a better option.
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Agreed. It's a baffling one tbh.
 
Genius Me! said:
I don't recall him being terrible at QPR. Okay he's likely to not be at Rafael's level, but he must be adequate enough cover.

I've seen enough of Fabio and Buttner to know who's the better left back, and I've seen enough of Smalling, Jones and Valencia at right back to know Fabio would be a better option.
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Everyone who has seen him play there wouldn't say that. He was very good at them (although not on a fixed position) but unfortunately had some injuries. He played 20 games and that cipher would have been bigger if it wasn't for injuries and because Redknapp decided on the last few games (after it was clear that they'll get relegated) to play players who would have been there even after the end of the season. He was bad in first (or was it second) game of the season though.
 
Ideally, we'd already be well stocked for the right back position, but that is only if Moyes started playing Fabio whenever Rafael was out. He's obviously good enough to be back up as I highly doubt he regressed so much since 2 years ago when he appeared in a champions league final that he wouldn't be adequate cover. Since he won't play him though, then yes we do need another one. We need people for left back much more urgently though, because since Evra is leaving this summer, we won't have anyone to start or capable of back up since Buttner isn't good enough for that either.
 
I'd love to know some peoples theories on why Moyes has chosen to freeze Fabio out if he's every bit good enough to play for us.


My only thoughts other than him not impressing in training is a contractual stand off.


He wants more money or assurances or he will leave on a free, we have taken the stand point that we are not going to match those terms and are not willing to give him the game time if he's on his way out.
 
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