Do we indulge our managers too much?

[Crimson King]

So much shit popping up on this forum at the moment.

 

[flappyjay]

Obviously a lot of it could be media nonsense, but ever since ETH's been chosen seems like we're mainly being linked to his ex-players (FDJ) and some Ajax players.

When Ole came in, we went full on Brexit FC mode.

Mourinho's transfer wishlist from Chelsea followed him to United - once we stopped indulging him, he threw his toys out of the pram.

It was the same with LVG - a shit load of Dutch players and his ex players at Bayern (spent a summe trying to get him Muller and Schweinsteiger).

You were right even if some people don't want to believe it. We should be focused on what the team needs not what the manager wants. Now here we are with yet another ball playing CB and McFred who are not ball playing midfielders.

 

[::sonny::]

They have fear to make changes, to bench players I don’t why and can’t understand

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

You were right even if some people don't want to believe it. We should be focused on what the team needs not what the manager wants. Now here we are with yet another ball playing CB and McFred who are not ball playing midfielders.

Murtough was supposed to be our DOF guy to keep things consistent and not having to rely solely on the manager. But his effectiveness remains to be seen.

 

[Siorac]

You can look at it as indulgence - or you can look at it as putting ALL responsibility on the manager. Our strategy still hasn't evolved beyond "let's just find a manager who can get everything right". Other management roles at the club seem to be either financial or purely administrative.

Of course it's possible that the club actually presented Ten Hag with detailed lists of possible targets and he just overruled the scouting department completely. If that's the case, then yeah, we indulge the manager too much.

 

[Lee565]

We indulge everyone at the club too much, from the owners, to managers to the players. There is a reason this mediocrity doesn't happen at madrid or barca and that is because the will let anyone costing the club to fall below a certain standard will be crucified, us on the other hand were still applauding the likes of ole and moyes when it was clear they were awful.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

We indulge everyone at the club too much, from the owners, to managers to the players. There is a reason this mediocrity doesn't happen at madrid or barca and that is because the will let anyone costing the club to fall below a certain standard will be crucified, us on the other hand were still applauding the likes of ole and moyes when it was clear they were awful.

100% agree.
I would add Bayern to the list. Maybe the only clubs in Europe that haven't dropped beyond a decent level in the last 20-30 years or so.
We, on the other hand, already dropped as there have been more downs than ups in the last 10 years. The damage is already done and I don't think we have the right personnel at the club with enough knowledge of football to prevent that. We had Fergie but he is gone now.
We don't know how to spend, when to spend, how much to spend and who to bring in as players and manager alike.

 

[Skills]

In this case I don't think so, simply because the likes of Antony, De Jong or Timber would and should be on our list of potential targets. Now for all we know none of these players are a must for ETH, it's possible that they have the profile that he wants and that several other players do but due to the particular circumstances surrounding these players they make good early targets. Also the press likes to make things up and create loose links between players and coaches.

What do you think now? Especially if the Arnautovic rumour is true?

 

[JPRouve]

What do you think now? Especially if the Arnautovic rumour is true?

It doesn't change my take, we are too early for that kind of claim and one or two players isn't too much.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Indulge our managers? They all routinely complain about not being able to do what they need to. It’s not that we don’t indulge them, we dictate to them at most of the crucial pain points.

The structure above the manager has let every manager down since van Persie being signed.

 

[wolvored]

When you have dof and ceo who know little of running a premier team and the manager is more experienced, its the easy option for the manager to run things. If we had bought in an experienced dof in this would have been very different. It must all come down to salaries

 

[JPRouve]

Indulge our managers? They all routinely complain about not being able to do what they need to. It’s not that we don’t indulge them, we dictate to them at most of the crucial pain points.

The structure above the manager has let every manager down since van Persie being signed.

So you would say that Mourinho didn't want and targetted 90% of his signings?

 

[Skills]

The consensus belief this time last year seems to have been no.

What do we think now, after another year and towards the end of another summer transfer window?

Do we overindulge our managers?

 

[Big Ben Foster]

The consensus belief this time last year seems to have been no.

What do we think now, after another year and towards the end of another summer transfer window?

Do we overindulge our managers?

Regardless of the changes that have occurred on paper to our structure, recruitment still seems to be heavily manager-driven. So my reaction would be yes. The never-ending cycle continues...

 

[tjb]

The consensus belief this time last year seems to have been no.

What do we think now, after another year and towards the end of another summer transfer window?

Do we overindulge our managers?

I think people don't know much about what happens behind the scenes and are way too impatient concerning things they have absolutely no clue about. It's one thing to discuss how poor Ole's transfers were after watching play for a period of time and seeing the resulting look of the squad, it's another thing to complain during a transfer window after a successful season after one game of bedding in.

Fans want modern, yet are too impatient, despite successful results. I'm not saying that I know for a fact ETH is correct, but trying to anticipate failure seems like a purposely negative thing to do. Particularly after one game in the new season where we won. In which, both Mount and Onana didn't look bad; in fact the worst player on the pitch was Garnacho, but we wouldn't have that discussion.

 

[flappyjay]

The consensus belief this time last year seems to have been no.

What do we think now, after another year and towards the end of another summer transfer window?

Do we overindulge our managers?

My consensus since the days of Mourinho is a yes. I saw us do it with Lvg(even losing out on kroos because of him). After lvg got sacked I hoped it would change but here we are. All we can hope for is that it works out this time.

 

[pcaming]

Is the sky blue?

We have no proper football decision makers at the top end. So we have no choice but to indulge managers.

 

[flappyjay]

I'm not saying that I know for a fact ETH is correct, but trying to anticipate failure seems like a purposely negative thing to do.

We have seen this before with lvg, Jose, Ole and it hasn't been good to us. It would be weird not be worried about a process that we have seen go side ways a few times.

 

[JPRouve]

The consensus belief this time last year seems to have been no.

What do we think now, after another year and towards the end of another summer transfer window?

Do we overindulge our managers?

In general yes but if it's based on our poor games under ETH, I would say that the issue is almost entirely tactical. Our use of space and the way our players are deployed is the source of our problems more than the the signings that we make.

Our current squad is made for a 433 with flat midfield instead we play an asymetric 4231 without game breakers on or off the ball which is bound to fail or at least not succeed at the highest level.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

The problem is that we have very few other ways to identify targets. People will deny it, but our scouting isn't close to elite, and we don't have a DoF so really we're reliant on the knowledge of the manager to choose targets for the most part.

 

[2cents]

Eight major signings under ten Hag - six of them have played in the Dutch league at some point, three under ten Hag himself. The other two are Casemiro - major high profile player - and Højlund. Fair to say the club needs to stop handing over all the responsibility for tranfers to our managers.

 

[Amadaeus]

Cant put all the blame on managers, our scouting department should also be accountable. At the moment, our managers and scouting department hasnt really been doing their job properly. There needs to be a perfect balance between both these department like we see at chelsea, Newcastle, Brighton, and Manchester city in the premier league

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I think people don't know much about what happens behind the scenes and are way too impatient concerning things they have absolutely no clue about. It's one thing to discuss how poor Ole's transfers were after watching play for a period of time and seeing the resulting look of the squad, it's another thing to complain during a transfer window after a successful season after one game of bedding in.

Fans want modern, yet are too impatient, despite successful results. I'm not saying that I know for a fact ETH is correct, but trying to anticipate failure seems like a purposely negative thing to do. Particularly after one game in the new season where we won. In which, both Mount and Onana didn't look bad; in fact the worst player on the pitch was Garnacho, but we wouldn't have that discussion.

It's not about ETH. It's about having a proper system in place above the manager that will outlast the manager and that recognizes that the manager is a coach, not a scout.

Even if ETH is extremely successful and all his transfers are massive hits, he won't be here forever and at some point somebody else will take over. Even the most successful managers only last 3-5 years at their respective clubs.

 

[jadaba]

I’d be wary of overindulging our manager if their vision was short term, like if they were going after safe bets by banking on old players on inflated salaries that may bring about a quick win but while harming the wider team development over a couple of years. Managers without a sense of security would act this way. I haven’t seen anything to suggest that ETH’s recruitment approach is short term driven, so I don’t think we’re indulging a harmful approach at all.

 

[redIndianDevil]

I think people don't know much about what happens behind the scenes and are way too impatient concerning things they have absolutely no clue about. It's one thing to discuss how poor Ole's transfers were after watching play for a period of time and seeing the resulting look of the squad, it's another thing to complain during a transfer window after a successful season after one game of bedding in.

Fans want modern, yet are too impatient, despite successful results. I'm not saying that I know for a fact ETH is correct, but trying to anticipate failure seems like a purposely negative thing to do. Particularly after one game in the new season where we won. In which, both Mount and Onana didn't look bad; in fact the worst player on the pitch was Garnacho, but we wouldn't have that discussion.

What game were you watching? Mount didn't look bad? He didn't do anything. Onana made a huge blunder which would have costed the game but I have no issues with Onana. No one is expecting a flawless performance but is it too much to ask for a competent performance after millions spent again, a full pre-season and no major injury concerns?

 

[luke511]

Cant put all the blame on managers, our scouting department should also be accountable. At the moment, our managers and scouting department hasnt really been doing their job properly. There needs to be a perfect balance between both these department like we see at chelsea, Newcastle, Brighton, and Manchester city in the premier league

We’d most likely have a midfield of Caicedo, Bellingham and Enzo, or at the very least one of them, if our scouts were in full control of our recruitment and spending. I don’t think they’re to blame.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Cant put all the blame on managers, our scouting department should also be accountable. At the moment, our managers and scouting department hasnt really been doing their job properly. There needs to be a perfect balance between both these department like we see at chelsea, Newcastle, Brighton, and Manchester city in the premier league

We’d most likely have a midfield of Caicedo, Bellingham and Enzo, or at the very least one of them, if our scouts were in full control of our recruitment and spending. I don’t think they’re to blame.

There have been a lot of claims in the press that our scouting department has been marginalized and/or ignored by most of our managers over the last decade, in favor of their own personal scouts and transfer targets. Obviously none of us knows exactly what goes on behind the scenes, but if true, we really can't assign much blame to the club's scouts.

 

[luke511]

No properly run club fully entrusts newly hired employees with £100s of millions worth of spending right off the bat, that trust has to be earned gradually in relation to success. It’s no wonder we need a never ending rebuild because we currently have a useless DOF.

 

[Plastic Evra]

The problem is that we have very few other ways to identify targets. People will deny it, but our scouting isn't close to elite, and we don't have a DoF so really we're reliant on the knowledge of the manager to choose targets for the most part.

It's so hard to know what scounting does or does not : For all we know they might be handing list of good options to whoever is in charge. But every summer is dominated by big transfers where you know the people making the deals probably account for United standing and branding. You do see the club signing free agents, loaning or buying younger players but there's very much a mentality of having to buy big and flashy.

 

[Based Adnan]

It's so hard to know what scounting does or does not : For all we know they might be handing list of good options to whoever is in charge. But every summer is dominated by big transfers where you know the people making the deals probably account for United standing and branding. You do see the club signing free agents, loaning or buying younger players but there's very much a mentality of having to buy big and flashy.

Didn't Ralf say he asked for scouting reports on Nkunku and we didn't have any? I find it hard to believe the recruitment team is able to identify a solid list of options via scouting only for the managers to consistently ignore them