Do we indulge our managers too much?

Skills

Snitch
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
43,008
Obviously a lot of it could be media nonsense, but ever since ETH's been chosen seems like we're mainly being linked to his ex-players (FDJ) and some Ajax players.

When Ole came in, we went full on Brexit FC mode.

Mourinho's transfer wishlist from Chelsea followed him to United - once we stopped indulging him, he threw his toys out of the pram.

It was the same with LVG - a shit load of Dutch players and his ex players at Bayern (spent a summe trying to get him Muller and Schweinsteiger).
 
Linking managers with players from previous club is a media special
 
Yes. A coach’s knowledge of the which players to sign is extremely limited as they’re so busy doing their actual jobs, they always end up going back to players they’ve worked with before (Matic, Fellaini, Blind etc.) or players from their home country (Lindelof, Depay). Managers don’t have the time to scout players from a load of different leagues. Obviously you get freaks like Wenger who stayed up till 2am watching football but generally speaking they’re focused on their own jobs. The recruitment team model is far superior. Although obviously the manager shouldn’t have players forced on him.
 
Skills said:
Obviously a lot of it could be media nonsense, but ever since ETH's been chosen seems like we're mainly being linked to his ex-players (FDJ) and some Ajax players.

When Ole came in, we went full on Brexit FC mode.

Mourinho's transfer wishlist from Chelsea followed him to United - once we stopped indulging him, he threw his toys out of the pram.

It was the same with LVG - a shit load of Dutch players and his ex players at Bayern (spent a summe trying to get him Muller and Schweinsteiger).
Click to expand...

If I recall, we are only really linked with 3 of them. Frenkie, Antony and FDJ. Unless you have seen other links?
 
romufc said:
If I recall, we are only really linked with 3 of them. Frenkie, Antony and FDJ. Unless you have seen other links?
Click to expand...

That's quite a bit isn't it? Like 3/4 signings we'll probably make this summer.
 
TsuWave said:
Linking managers with players from previous club is a media special
Click to expand...
Issue is we did make those signings… (or attempted to in the case of FDJ and Halaand)
 
In this case I don't think so, simply because the likes of Antony, De Jong or Timber would and should be on our list of potential targets. Now for all we know none of these players are a must for ETH, it's possible that they have the profile that he wants and that several other players do but due to the particular circumstances surrounding these players they make good early targets. Also the press likes to make things up and create loose links between players and coaches.
 
RonaldoVII said:
Our scouts have been terrible and undergoing an overhaul so no surprise ETH comes in and fancies players who he knows.
Click to expand...
This; and with all the previous managers also. Woodward’s gullibility in dealing with agents and selling clubs didn’t help either.

I reckon the Brexit FC stuff was more on Phelan than Ole, and it was abandoned pretty quickly; fortunately someone at the club (I wonder who?) realised that £50m for Longstaff wasn’t the way forward…
 
Skills said:
That's quite a bit isn't it? Like 3/4 signings we'll probably make this summer.
Click to expand...


I can also flip it. Antony has was linked before ETH was appointed manager, fans wanted him before.

Secondly, the only reason FDJ is linked to us is because of ETH, without him, he wouldn't even look at us twice.

I would actually prefer us signing FDJ over any other midfielder, not just because he is a ex ETH player but the fact that he is an elite midfielder.
 
RonaldoVII said:
Our scouts have been terrible and undergoing an overhaul so no surprise ETH comes in and fancies players who he knows.
Click to expand...
I’m not saying our scouts are great but can we really be sure how good/bad they are? It seems like most of the players we sign are the managers signings.
 
I don't believe it's a case of indulging the manager now, because ten Hag is the head coach and will be working under the head of football operations. But we did go along with manager led approach up until Ole's sacking.

And if we have the opportunity to sign a few of ten Hag's former players like de Jong, Antony or even Timber, we should take advantage of that opportunity. All the aforementioned players are still young/fairly young and are completely in-tune with being utilised in a high tempo/highly intense play-style which is demanding both with and without the ball.

We should use logic and reason here and when that logic and reason is applied to the style of of football ten Hag wants to implement, the aforementioned players present a fantastic opportunity. A opportunity that probably wouldn't have existed without ten Hag.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fortitude
Skills said:
Obviously a lot of it could be media nonsense, but ever since ETH's been chosen seems like we're mainly being linked to his ex-players (FDJ) and some Ajax players.

When Ole came in, we went full on Brexit FC mode.

Mourinho's transfer wishlist from Chelsea followed him to United - once we stopped indulging him, he threw his toys out of the pram.

It was the same with LVG - a shit load of Dutch players and his ex players at Bayern (spent a summe trying to get him Muller and Schweinsteiger).
Click to expand...

What did we sign 2-3 English players?
 
While we probably should move on to the more modern style of scouting im not particularly bothered by this, they're all either world class players or ones with the potential to be so.
 
We will see which players sign but generally yes.

Funny enough Shaw and Herrera were Moyes signing and Maguire was a mourinho signing, if ole had have been sacked two months earlier we would have still signed Sancho who was an ole signing.

These are the United equivalent of club signings I think

The major issue has been the chopping and changing of styles
 
Skills said:
Obviously a lot of it could be media nonsense, but ever since ETH's been chosen seems like we're mainly being linked to his ex-players (FDJ) and some Ajax players.

When Ole came in, we went full on Brexit FC mode.

Mourinho's transfer wishlist from Chelsea followed him to United - once we stopped indulging him, he threw his toys out of the pram.

It was the same with LVG - a shit load of Dutch players and his ex players at Bayern (spent a summe trying to get him Muller and Schweinsteiger).
Click to expand...
I was just thinking about this and hoping to start a new thread. Looks like we are only after players who ETH has worked with before. It's not like ETH has done this in his previous clubs, Ajax don't operate like us, they expect their coaches to develop players and deal with constant outgoings. But the moment ETH is here looks like he is demanding all players he has worked with before, that shows a lack of imagination. This is why I didn't like Rangnick leaving, at least with him there was another potential list of players from the Bundesliga whom he knew. Now it's all Ajax players.
 
redIndianDevil said:
I was just thinking about this and hoping to start a new thread. Looks like we are only after players who ETH has worked with before. It's not like ETH has done this in his previous clubs, Ajax don't operate like us, they expect their coaches to develop players and deal with constant outgoings. But the moment ETH is here looks like he is demanding all players he has worked with before, that shows a lack of imagination. This is why I didn't like Rangnick leaving, at least with him there was another potential list of players from the Bundesliga whom he knew. Now it's all Ajax players.
Click to expand...

It doesn't show a lack of imagination at all. In fact it makes complete sense to consider players you know extremely well, providing they are good enough.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
We will see which players sign but generally yes.

Funny enough Shaw and Herrera were Moyes signing and Maguire was a mourinho signing, if ole had have been sacked two months earlier we would have still signed Sancho who was an ole signing.

These are the United equivalent of club signings I think

The major issue has been the chopping and changing of styles
Click to expand...
100% right.

It always surprises me when Manchester United fans don't pay attention to how Manchester United actually operates.
 
The answer is yes and that's because we are not confident about our football side of the board to be good enough to go toe to toe with the manager on certain issues. I mean let's take the De Jong's case. Let's say that Murtough/Fletcher think that Fabian Ruiz can do the same job De Jong does at a cheaper fee/salary. Are they confident enough and do they have the CV to go against the manager on this issue? Do they have the CV needed for ETH to rate them and trust them?
 
I don't think we can say they are/ have been indulged too much when the transfer decision making mantra has been;
Q1 Will the player sell a shed load of shirts ?
Q2. (Only to be asked if answer to Q1 is yes)
Does the manager want him?
 
Maticmaker said:
I don't think we can say they are/ have been indulged too much when the transfer decision making mantra has been;
Q1 Will the player sell a shed load of shirts ?
Q2. (Only to be asked if answer to Q1 is yes)
Does the manager want him?
Click to expand...
Looking at our transfer history, this only applies for big money signings, and for big money signings you'd expect basically anyone to be a shirt seller because of the very nature of big money signings being viewed by the public as higher quality players. Even then, I'm not sure Martial, Bailly, Lindelof, Fred and Wan-Bissaka were considered shirt sellers at time of purchase.

EDIT: As far as the original question goes, I'd say every single club indulges their managers to some extent. And so they should, the manager is the person with the best idea of what they want to do, and they know those players better than anyone when it comes to proving they can work with that manager.

Supposedly we have had far fewer leaks than we used to ever since the Glazers took control, something that SAF himself verified. Beforehand they'd have to go to multiple people who could all leak stuff, these days it's only those within United itself, agents, and those at the other club that tend to perform leaks. If the other club is also privately owned, and the agent isn't a complete ego prick, then transfers may happen very quickly from our perspective and until that happens the media just play the guessing game. I think a season or two ago there were some leak issues within United but I don't see as much of it happening at the moment, which is good for the club.
 
Last edited:
Do city and Liverpool indulge their managers too much, well yeah.
The problem is our managers haven't been all that great with their ideas.
 
A manager would want whatever players will help the team implement and play the style the manager wants.

Stands to reason that these players would be from that managers former club surely!

Plus there is a vast scouting department at United don't forget.

Silly to say we indulge managers too much.
 
Champ said:
A manager would want whatever players will help the team implement and play the style the manager wants.

Stands to reason that these players would be from that managers former club surely!

Plus there is a vast scouting department at United don't forget.

Silly to say we indulge managers too much.
Click to expand...
:lol: :lol:
 
If we don't, we wont be as attractive to managers which has already dropped a lot.
 
Its natural for a manager coming in to want to go with safe bets. They have very little time in a first summer to get settled, they wont have the chance to do the long conversations with the scouting department that they will be able to do over the course of the following season, so looking to players you've worked with or scouted at your last club is a sensible move.
 
Tavern in the town said:


Ditching our shortlist for Ten Hag’s isn’t a great sign.
Click to expand...

Curious, why do you think it's a bad thing? For the long term, I'd say it's best that the manager is the one to decide his players. I mean, especially when you consider how people point at previous managers as being at fault for previous signings. If we can't trust ETH to pick the right players, he shouldn't be manager.
 
Loony BoB said:
Curious, why do you think it's a bad thing? For the long term, I'd say it's best that the manager is the one to decide his players. I mean, especially when you consider how people point at previous managers as being at fault for previous signings. If we can't trust ETH to pick the right players, he shouldn't be manager.
Click to expand...
Basically what I mentioned here. It’s not really the way successful clubs operate anymore.


Tavern in the town said:
Yes. A coach’s knowledge of the which players to sign is extremely limited as they’re so busy doing their actual jobs, they always end up going back to players they’ve worked with before (Matic, Fellaini, Blind etc.) or players from their home country (Lindelof, Depay). Managers don’t have the time to scout players from a load of different leagues. Obviously you get freaks like Wenger who stayed up till 2am watching football but generally speaking they’re focused on their own jobs. The recruitment team model is far superior. Although obviously the manager shouldn’t have players forced on him.
Click to expand...
 
Fair. But could it not be said that our current recruitment process has proven itself to be a failure, and with the new scouting regime coming in (if I recall correctly?) that this is as good a time for a reset on the transfer list as any?
 
Loony BoB said:
Fair. But could it not be said that our current recruitment process has proven itself to be a failure, and with the new scouting regime coming in (if I recall correctly?) that this is as good a time for a reset on the transfer list as any?
Click to expand...
Hasn’t our recruitment process been to let the manager pick targets? That’s what all of LVG/Jose/Ole did and it failed spectacularly. Managers will always choose players they’re familiar with - for example Klopp was desperate for Gotze/Brandt (players he’d seen in the Bundesliga or previously managed) and the recruitment team convinced him Salah was the superior target.
 
Tavern in the town said:


Ditching our shortlist for Ten Hag’s isn’t a great sign.
Click to expand...


This is inevitable when you get a new manager who is so radically different to what went before. Some of those players will have been scouted for 12 to 18 months and will have been considered originally for how they fit into OIe's team. The real problem is bad managerial appointments over several years that means players scouted for one manager suddenly aren't needed for another. But in terms of this summer, better to go with some of ETH's picks rather than provide him with players who he doesnt want or need. Then put that problem right over the next 12 to 24 months and get some continuity in place.
 
If whoever is in charge can't do more than 1 deal at a time they should be fecked out.
 
I think the bigger problem is the complete lack of direction in each manager we've had, it's like everyone who succeeds the previous manager plays a completely different style of football, and that’s an issue because we don’t have the larger infrastructure in place. I don't think we 'indulge' our managers any more than any other side who purchases players for their managers — all of our managers in the past have asked for players and just straight up not received them.

Rangnick was probably looking at and pushing scouts to loot Bundesliga players with higher emphasis on stamina and playing a very vertical game like Laimer, Nkunku etc. -- Ten Hag has a completely different approach where he will want to hold the vast majority of the football and as such seems to be targeting players suited to that style of football like Eriksen, De Jong, and the 'midget CB's'.

I think that's completely fine, managers will obviously want to sign players who fit the style of football they seek to play. It's just the constant hopping to and from completely different styles that is the bigger issue.
 
I'd hope we'd be looking at players like Antony, de Jong and Timber regardless of who the manager is.
 
Adnan said:
I don't believe it's a case of indulging the manager now, because ten Hag is the head coach and will be working under the head of football operations. But we did go along with manager led approach up until Ole's sacking.

And if we have the opportunity to sign a few of ten Hag's former players like de Jong, Antony or even Timber, we should take advantage of that opportunity. All the aforementioned players are still young/fairly young and are completely in-tune with being utilised in a high tempo/highly intense play-style which is demanding both with and without the ball.

We should use logic and reason here and when that logic and reason is applied to the style of of football ten Hag wants to implement, the aforementioned players present a fantastic opportunity. A opportunity that probably wouldn't have existed without ten Hag.
Click to expand...

If these players are only available to us because of EtH, what happens if it doesn’t work out and we give him the bullet? Is FdJ going to want to stay and play for a 5/6th place United under a Graham Potter (for example) managed rebuild?

Are we going to get our money back for FdJ and find another club willing to pick up the presumably exorbitant wages we’ll be luring him here with?

Its kind of worrying that we seem to be the only club in for all three of these players, which suggests to me there isn’t much of a market for them. Additionally when players have left that great looking Ajax side, they've underwhelmed to varying degrees at their new clubs.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.