Do we have the most overrated collection of attackers in the league?

NessunDorma

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Apr 14, 2012
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I only ask because, since I created this thread suggesting we have the best collection in the league, and that there was surely some mouthwatering football ahead of us, our results have been:

0 - 0 Vs Tottenham
1 - 1 Vs Stoke
0 - 2 Vs the mighty Yeovil
0 - 1 Vs Southampton

We've looked dull and uninspired in all of those games, scoring only 3 goals. And it was very concerning today to see us run out of ideas in the last ten minutes, and basically resort to aimless punts forward.

So to try and restore the karmic balance, use a bit of reverse psychology on the underwriters of fate, I will now ask whether our expensively assembled forward line is all it's cracked up to be?
 
They're definitely overrated but with the complete lack of chances I'm not surprised RVP and Falcao can barely score. I can't really pin down what makes us so horrible when trying to create chances through the middle.
 
We not using them to their strengths. Rooney as a midfielder should be stopped. Di Maria was best when he was running from his own half to the opponents box. It's totally different asking him to play striker.
 
They just don't fit together. They've performed to high levels in the part playing in systems mostly conducive to their talents. Maybe van Genius is still figuring out what those are.
 
Without a doubt they are completely over rated and living off reputation and we are constantly trying to shoe horn them all in, zero pace, predictable and do not compliment each other (also means di Maria can't play in his best position).

Falcao will never be world class again, RVP and Rooney have peaked and Mata needs to be surrounded by pace and can only be at his best playing as a number ten. I wouldn't be disappointed to see two go in the summer.
 
They're not overrated. None of them is played to his strength at the moment, half of them out of position and it's also an unbalanced set of attackers, impossible to fit all of them in a team at the same time.
 
Bojan11 said:
We not using them to their strengths. Rooney as a midfielder should be stopped. Di Maria was best when he was running from his own half to the opponents box. It's totally different asking him to play striker.
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Exactly. Di Maria has been best for us in midfield but LvG puts Rooney there. Swapping those two probably would have given us real penetration in the middle of the park and more physical up front. Mata had our best chances of the game but when Herrera came on he had to drop deeper which i dont think helped things all that
 
The system we're using isn't getting the best out of them at all. Rooney, Mata, Di Maria are all world class players without a doubt. Van Persie is 31 and more inconsistent these days but has it in him to be a top class player, and Falcao is recovering from a big injury. The first 3 I don't think are overrated at all, but RvP and Falcao at this point it's fair to say have declined quite a bit from their best. We need to start using a formation and style of play which gets the best out of them though.
 
Are some of you blind or do you just throw up start without properly watching games? We do not create chances.
 
kouroux said:
It starts at the back and continues in midfield. Poor play and zero chance creation will not make our attackers shine.
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I kind of agree with this, though Rooney and Di Maria should create chances. Think the big thing is lack of wingers (proper wingers, not wing backs) that create so many chances in the Premier League. So much of United's work comes central or deep crosses. Easier for defenders to deal with.

Strikers have done fine. Slightly overrated and nowhere near Bayern, Real, Barcelona or Chelsea, but still pretty good finishers and lots of the movement midfielders crave.
 
Absolutely, I was laughing at that thread and the people saying it was on par and better than city and Chelsea, Rooney is very over rated, Falcao and Van Persie are on the decline as footballers.
Di Maria and Mata are the only two who would be considered for the Chelsea and City squads and even Di Maria has turned into a Muppet these last few months.
 
OneUnited24 said:
Exactly. Di Maria has been best for us in midfield but LvG puts Rooney there. Swapping those two probably would have given us real penetration in the middle of the park and more physical up front. Mata had our best chances of the game but when Herrera came on he had to drop deeper which i dont think helped things all that
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Don't understand this, for the last 3 months the cafe has been harking on about pace up top, LVG does it and the cafe complains.
 
Yes, quite clearly.
Hype levels to output levels, they are the most overrated.
 
No, the problem is the manager.

  • Our most talented youngster, star of last season, can't find a place even on the bench.
  • Our second highest goal scorer in history is played in the midfield
  • A player whose strength is running with the ball is playing with his back to the goal
  • RVP whose strengths are his hold-up play and ability to convert chances isn't getting enough of the ball
  • Falcao, why the feck did we invest in him if he can't even find a place on the bench in front of a teenage striker?
  • Mata is not Silva, his best work is done in the final third by spotting movement from other attackers. Our players are static, who play in front of the opposition defense.

In summary, the manager has clipped their wings by either playing then in the wrong positions or asking them to cut their flair in order to make useless passes.
 
ivaldo said:
Don't understand this, for the last 3 months the cafe has been harking on about pace up top, LVG does it and the cafe complains.
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Yes but in Di Maria you have a player who get beat his man and is about quick one touch passing/hollywood balls into the box. Why not use it against a team who are set up to control the midfield?

I'm more interested in seeing players put in positions that are best and not just doing it to offer us pace. Also Rooney has pace and would be better up top. Its mindblowing how him and Di Maria didnt swap roles
 
They don't fit together at all IMO, with their individual talent we'll see days where that overcomes how unbalanced they are as a quartet, but we'll see many more days where they all look to be in each others way and struggling to find a space to take up in the attack. They play as a front four box, which is just so awkward.
 
I wouldn't think it is overrated, just the fact our build up play is so flat and laboured. Playing from that deep is not working for us.
 
Insanity said:
No, the problem is the manager.

  • Our most talented youngster, star of last season, can't find a place even on the bench.
  • Our second highest goal scorer in history is played in the midfield
  • A player whose strength is running with the ball is playing with his back to the goal
  • RVP whose strengths are his hold-up play and ability to convert chances isn't getting enough of the ball
  • Falcao, why the feck did we invest in him if he can't even find a place on the bench in front of a teenage striker?
  • Mata is not Silva, his best work is done in the final third by spotting movement from other attackers. Our players are static, who play in front of the opposition defense.

In summary, the manager has clipped their wings by either playing then in the wrong positions or asking them to cut their flair in order to make useless passes.
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Amen to this.
 
The squad is still very unbalanced, and we are making things worst by playing them wrongly.
 
OneUnited24 said:
Yes but in Di Maria you have a player who get beat his man and is about quick one touch passing/hollywood balls into the box. Why not use it against a team who are set up to control the midfield?

I'm more interested in seeing players put in positions that are best and not just doing it to offer us pace. Also Rooney has pace and would be better up top. Its mindblowing how him and Di Maria didnt swap roles
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Its more of a case of Rooney being played out of position and not Di Maria then. Herrera in the Rooney and sorted.
 
The best attackers don't help if they have to play in a shitty system that doesn't work. There is a reason why outside of Italy no one plays 5 at the back and two strikers anymore because it usually means you are outnumbered in midfield against all those 4-2-3-1s and 4-3-3s and that is a very bad idea. Guardiola is not without reason one of the best managers of our time he realizes that the midfield is the most important part of the team and always has at least 5-7 players playing in that strata but van Gaal is somehow convinced that 2-3 players there are enough.

So without any working link up play and passing options in midfield we are left with long hoof balls from defense that are supposed to find one of our two strikers or the man behind them. That's the kind of shit you expect from a newly promoted team that wants to avoid relegation with a sub-par set of players but not a team fighting for the CL places, let alone one that invested more than 100M € in their attacking force in the last two transfer windows.
 
Leroy The Red said:
Absolutely, I was laughing at that thread and the people saying it was on par and better than city and Chelsea, Rooney is very over rated, Falcao and Van Persie are on the decline as footballers.
Di Maria and Mata are the only two who would be considered for the Chelsea and City squads and even Di Maria has turned into a Muppet these last few months.
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That may very well be - but if you play him up front, he usually has a goal in him, even when he's not properly on song.

If I were LVG I'd seek to exploit Rooney's undeniable propensity for scoring whilst playing a bit shite. He's the sort of player who can bail you out on an otherwise bad day - he's done so for us time and again.

Unless the plan is to convert him into a deeper lying player on a permanent basis (arguably what Fergie had in mind for him too, be it said), I can't say I understand LVG's logic here.

Rooney has his weaknesses as a footballer, nobody will deny that. But he is dangerous up front. So play him there. The role he's largely played in midfield can be filled by someone else.
 
We're 17th in the league for chances created in the last 5 games (according to Sky Sports).
 
Put any of them up front for Chelsea or City and they will most definitely score more goals.
 
Insanity said:
No, the problem is the manager.

  • Our most talented youngster, star of last season, can't find a place even on the bench.
  • Our second highest goal scorer in history is played in the midfield
  • A player whose strength is running with the ball is playing with his back to the goal
  • RVP whose strengths are his hold-up play and ability to convert chances isn't getting enough of the ball
  • Falcao, why the feck did we invest in him if he can't even find a place on the bench in front of a teenage striker?
  • Mata is not Silva, his best work is done in the final third by spotting movement from other attackers. Our players are static, who play in front of the opposition defense.

In summary, the manager has clipped their wings by either playing then in the wrong positions or asking them to cut their flair in order to make useless passes.
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Pretty much spot on. I like the bullet points also.
 
Quite possibly, they're all on massive money but they feel like a collection of stars from 2012 in much the same way as Chelsea had the best forward line from 2009 last season. That being said, they are of undoubted quality and all still have the ability to finish so the main issue is that we create so few chances. It's been a problem certainly since the start of last season and maybe even longer than that.
 
Insanity said:
No, the problem is the manager.

  • Our most talented youngster, star of last season, can't find a place even on the bench.
  • Our second highest goal scorer in history is played in the midfield
  • A player whose strength is running with the ball is playing with his back to the goal
  • RVP whose strengths are his hold-up play and ability to convert chances isn't getting enough of the ball
  • Falcao, why the feck did we invest in him if he can't even find a place on the bench in front of a teenage striker?
  • Mata is not Silva, his best work is done in the final third by spotting movement from other attackers. Our players are static, who play in front of the opposition defense.

In summary, the manager has clipped their wings by either playing then in the wrong positions or asking them to cut their flair in order to make useless passes.
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I'm going with this.

It looks more and more like our system's totally flawed and not suited for our players, or modern football. Southampton turned up with some nice one touch football, great combinations getting out of tight spots, direct passing, clever movement and pressing. We lack it all it seems. I blame the system, not our attacking players. I'm pretty sure RvP would score 20+ goals for Real for instance.
 
the talk of us having exceptional attacking power has certainly quietened down In the media recently.

this current formation isn't coming close to being effective in terms of creating lots of chances.
 
Balu said:
They're not overrated. None of them is played to his strength at the moment, half of them out of position and it's also an unbalanced set of attackers, impossible to fit all of them in a team at the same time.
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Just about correct! & this from a neutral! ;)

This 3-5-2 is also bullshit if you have no specialist wingbacks.
 
Im not sure they are overrated because only United fans really rate them as high, mostly due to rating them for their former form or ability. Mata was sold by Jose for a reason, Rooney inconsistent, Falcao injured/ out of form, RVP aging. Only ADM Has performed well this season but that was only at the start. Still he is the one that most non United fans would still say is a top player. Its a very much ' on paper' attack.
 
kouroux said:
Please expand on that. No Irony, just genuine interest.
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I agree to a certain extent but this belief that all our problems are coming the back and midfield is getting annoying. For me the tactics, formation, and defensive mind-set of the manager is the major issue, add to that the lack of movement from our attacking players in the final third only adds to the problem. It’s obvious we are playing possession based football, therefore, if there is no movement in front of them then our players have no option but to play the ball back.

Zero shots on target is awful, our best opportunities came when the Mata made space for himself or got into dangerous positions, something RVP hasn’t been doing. We lack fluency and while that comes from all over the pitch, but it tends to break down in the final third.

For me some players are hiding behind the defensive issues and getting away with terrible performances.
 
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